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What I got from it was that Toppo threw away sense of justice to gain that power, while Vegeta fully embraced who he was to get Ultra Ego, which is still my favorite form.

The philosophy of Toppo being Vegeta's counterpart, as well as Jiren's philosophy being Goku's counterpart is something incredible.

The way I see it is like this: Toppo is like giving someone a gun and barely training them. Vegeta is like teaching someone everything about guns long before they're ever given a gun to practice with.

My theory is that the Gods of Destruction were all mortals once and had to sacrifice what tied them to the mortal realm to become a true Destroyer, rather than using a Destroyer's power in the case of Vegeta and Ultra Ego. Vegeta is still tied to the mortal realm as an obligation to his family and friendly rivalry with Goku, whereas Toppo does not have an "attachment" per se other than his sense of justice. Toppo's training would have to be longer than Vegeta's, where he understood the philosophical approach to ascending from mortal into full deity.

I believe Vegeta will ultimately become the strongest wielder of hakai energy eventually.

Maybe part of Vegeta's GOD power is rooted in the guilt he feels for the "sins" committed by his race. It could explain why he gets stronger as he takes more damage. Part of him believes that he deserves to be punished for the bad he's done. The other side of that coin is as he takes damage, his will to battle burns brighter. He's accepted the fact that he and Saiyans before him did things that he no longer feels the need to do. But he thrives in battle. His natural instincts kick in and push him to survive and overcome. Kind of like hitting the skip button on natural evolution.

The technique of the gods does not have a name. It's just hakai state as long as we know. Vegeta was the one who just named his own version of it ultra ego just to spite Goku's ultra instinct basically. I doubt if we see Beerus in this state at some point that he would dub it ultra ego. That would be kind of weird tbh.

Vegeta beat Toppo several arcs ago without Ultra Ego. He'd one shot Toppo now.

The way I thought of it was every mortal, in theory, has the potential to tap in Hakai energy, and depending on their innate biology, even transform or mutate with it. And any mortal with enough power and training can learn to do just that, like Toppo and Vegeta. However, no matter what, in order to do so, there is a heavy psychological component to tapping into that power and making use of it. The combination of the psychological aspects and the biological aspects are what make Toppo and Vegeta’s power ups distinct abilities but they are coming from the same type of power. That’s what makes the most sense to me at least.

I would really like to see something in the future, regarding how one truly becomes a God of Destruction and the techniques they learn and how the whole process works. Perhaps in a Beerus origin story.

Imagine a time line where Majin vegeta has ultra ego, giving up everything

*Yeah, that would be a STOMP FEST on Vegeta's part, because him and Goku are far beyond there ToP versions now.*

It would kind of be a dope feature for UE, the longer you use it the more powers you unlock. So like the base form makes you stronger as you go along but the next tier nullifies ki attacks, so on so forth, idk, something like that.

I honestly think their paths to Ultra Ego and God Of Destruction are very similar if you look at it this way, they both had to sacrifice part of their identities/ideals. For Vegeta is was guilt/shame of the evils he had already done holding him back, Vegeta held onto it because he thought it made him a better person - and for Toppo is was guilt/shame of being a god of destruction and the evils he was about to do (instead of a superhero pursuing Justice) because GODS often have to destroy and this probably includes innocent people/things and this was not in line with Toppo's self identity and vision for his life.

Vegeta literally beat toppos god of destruction form with ssb evolution. This same vegeta went on to train with the yardrats and become even more stronger to rival ui debatingly surpass ui omen in power with ssb evolution newly mastering spirit control. Not to mention this was also a stronger UI Omen goku. Then vegeta trained again to obtain god of destruction key. I think this current vegeta is jiren level if not greater by a little. Toppo isn’t touching that

Vegeta upgraded his Ultra Ego abilities in the recent magna chapters I like the explanation on the Hakai techniques

Finally! I’ve been waiting for so long for someone to explain this! On the death battle channel Vegeta vs Thor , they said the only thing they could compare UE to was god of destruction toppo, which is not the same thing as UE

Ultra ego vegeta one shots

Vegeta got his transformation to tap into the power WITHOUT sacrificing his guilt. He fought in ue while still feeling the guilt of his race

5:19 LOVE this image of UE Vegeta with the shining Destroyer earring!!!

I feel like Toppo's version is a defensive form of the Hakai-power, while Vegeta's version (UE) is an offensive version of it. Toppo gave up his sense of justice so that he could ultimately protect U11 from being erased, using Hakai-energy, so that allowed him to have a form that shielded him from attacks. Vegeta, on the other hand, wanted to use the Hakai-power simply to overcome and surpass any opponent that got in his way, so he gained a form that allowed him to catch up to opponents that could severely damage him. Simply put, they both had very different reasons to use Hakai-energy, and those reasons led to them having different properties for the transformations they gained.

You had me with those gamer sheets geekdom 😂😂😂

Vegeta wins because he doesn’t have to charge his attacks i do wish he has that haki aura.

I want a Vegeta and Toppo to fight and tap into their full power and fight

I've seen some discussion, especially with the recent Chapters bringing the Saiyan's heritage more into the forefront again, that Vegeta and Goku may not be entirely compatible with the angelic and destroyer powers they have been learning. It seems like recently they have both basically given up on their saiyan given abilities and go all in on these new techniques and forms. Personally I'm hopeful that they reverse course and go back to advancing as saiyans and use their access to God ki and the techniques and forms that it opens up to them to just augment their super saiyan abilities. Alternatively, I would love to see someone like Krillin, who as a human does not have access to a plethora of transformations, learn how to harness God ki and maybe go all in on it. What do you think?

Toppo isn't as much humanoid as he is muppetoid.

Awesome video bro Just by the fact that Vegeta got his God of Destruction earring, it already shows that he is much more advanced than the Top.

Remember that vegeta in dragon ball super that he agreed to be a god of destruction

This rivalry in 100 years will be off the charts

geekdom gang x ultimate power 🔋

Beerus must feel some pride knowing the mortal he taught to use Hakai energy is now FAR stronger than Toppo lol. I think Ultra Ego Vegeta would wreck most of the current Gods of Destruction, but not Beerus.

That fake add caught me off guard lmfaoooooooo

This is interesting... I believe Vegeta can be even a more powerful GOD of Destruction than Beerus, due to genetics. We have to see how powerful beerus race is... but Vegeta being an elite and a prodigy, mean that his potential is huge

Being a destroyer just means willing to destroy without any sense of morale, guilt, or reason... once your past that, you can qualify yourself as a destroyer.

Vegeta and the other Gods getting stronger through damage may have something to do with using destruction power in an opposite way. Damage eventually could lead to destruction. So by using destruction power, it somehow allows one to benefit from damage and therefore avoid complete destruction itself. This is why Vegeta says his form has no limit. And Beerus said that his mind is always on destruction which is why there was no limit to his power.

Whis has stated that for you to master these god abilities you have to find your own way. This makes sense considering ultra ego has its own technique with the damage/ power boost multiplyer. If he combines it with spirit fission his blows and attacks could literally not only damage the opponents body, but also their Ki

Show this to Screw Attack for putting misinformation out on Vegeta saying it’s the same transformation when it’s not.

It personally makes me hope that Vegetas go too Hakai blast is an upgraded Big Bang Attack. Iirc its the least usec attack of his and unlike the Gamma Burst Flash, and the Final Shine Attack, it has no future upgrade. So like- idek how to name it

I have been pondering this the whole time and you have answered every question in my brain

GREAT VIDEO ! i always feel like they are the same , but different. their both god of destruction forms, but vegetas is stacked with his god ki, thats why he has the hair color change . toppo only has the destruction ki but not the god ki , thats how vegeta was able to beat him .the ultra forms are god techniques , goku and vegeta worked on that more. i agree toppo has more knowledge of destruction but not as much of god ki

A line said in the anime that further what geekdom said about vegeta only using this hakai for combat not for destroyer is “I will not throw away my pride to play god” also the sins of the sayains will always haunt vegeta which why another reason he won’t be a destroyer because u can’t feel any empathy for this mantle and vegeta couldn’t finish ghranola because sayains were responsible ghranola taking revenge on z fighters

Ultra Ego works like Goku’s UI, it’s supposed to be a technique but these mf saiyans use it as Transformations and that’s just amazing

Ultra Ego Vegeta is better than G.O.D. candidate Toppo. Reason Toppo threw away is pride and sense of justice just to defeat Vegeta, while the prince of all Saiyans had not only adapted the power of G.O.D. energy but made the power he gain from beerus a version that can be close or equal to Goku's MUI.

If we get another Tournament of Power, their rematch would be epic. Battle of the G.O.D.s

Screw attack thinks Ultra Ego and Toppo's GoD form are pretty much the same thing.

Thumbs up 👍🏻 from me to you bro! Very good explanation of God of Destruction Toppo and UE Vegeta! It’s makes all the sense in the world, The way you explained everything! Definitely looking forward to seeing Toppo and Vegeta evolve the God of Destruction power!

Vegeta "forsaking" the past to achieve Ego is similar to how he achieved Super Saiyan in the first place.

Everybody know it's levels to this.

Ultra Ego Vegeta vs God Toppo would be sick to see

Beerus sacrifices his heart/empathy to tap into it but you can control your destructive desire when your a master like a god of destruction.. instead of toppo getting ultra instinct he abandoned his hearts desire to be a good person a destructive person knows instinctively that they are not good 😂 its just that simple its like making a deal with the devil hence why vegeta says he is hell bound 🤷🏽‍♂️ its divine strictly because its instinct based instead of being evil theres genuine pure destruction like goku genuine pure heart vegeta and goku represents the human race perfectly and its potential and on the other hand beerus and whis in there god tiers

Fully Agree with Geekdom where Vegeta is just using hakai power and is not a full blown destroyer. Remember what Beerus told Vegeta when he said what he needed to do to become stronger that he will have "steal" this power

Idk if it's about giving something up but rather giving into destructive desires, embracing them even. But certain values get in the way for someone to accept destruction, such as guilt, or a sense of justice.

Since Beerus is the Strongest Destroyer well atleast in the Manga, it might be that Beerus has this Ultra Ego Technique to make up for not being able to Master Ultra Instinct. That's probably why he wanted Vegeta to learn it especially cuz he reject UI completely. And even if the other Destroyers have UE they probably wouldn't be as good at it as Beerus given how he seems to Goku's Endgame in the Super Series. Or it could be that each Destroyers have their OWN Unique way of tapping into this power. I remember that one Destroyer from Universe 3 I believe was wearing a Robotic Suit. Maybe it was his way of getting stronger or something.

I like the comparisons made b/w Vegeta’s abilities & Toppo’s; & the correlations made to Vegeta’s Saiyan instincts as it relates to the differences. It does seem like both characters happened to give something up in their journey’s of personal motivation, but something tells me that Toppo didn’t necessarily have to give up his sense of Justice to use the Hakaishin Ki he’d been training to learn to use; but that the pressure he felt to win the TOP is what convinced him to start using his destruction Ki which he had already obtained before he made that emotional decision to give up his devotion to Justice. And I have a feeling it might be the same for Vegeta, where Beerus used teaching Vegeta to use GoD Ki as an opportunity to both satisfy his own & Vegeta’s motivation to surpass Goku’s UI; & also help Vegeta get rid of the baggage of guilt he ‘s been carrying around. Then again, there may be a little bit of a chicken & the egg/physical vs metaphysical paradox happening where, either the higher abstract motivations that a character focuses on are integral in just even making it physically possible for some like Goku & Vegeta to reach the highest “god” levels of martial arts in DBsuper-like UI & Hakaishin Ki; &/or that the while the difficulty in reaching those highest levels of power just so happens to force those characters to change their core outlook on life, that actually being able to use UI or Ultra Ego/Hakaishin Ki & the personal beliefs & inner motivations a character holds, are categorically separate & independent concepts & phenomena from one another.

It seems like Vegeta's Ego is more like a Technique-type while Toppo's GOD leans more into a Transformation-type

The thing about Vegeta GOD power is he is still an Apprentice while Toppo had mastered the Hakai Energy and was in the Priliminary Stages of becoming a God of Destruction which he did by setting aside JUSTICE and making sure Only Pure Destruction can help maintain the balance in the cosmos and to help his Universe Survive.

Toppo actually says he had to let everything go also

6:01 vegeta didnt have to give up anything, he just became who he truly was...... its the opposite of toppo in that sense since toppo had to give up who he was

A full powered Final Flash but with Hakai energy would be disgusting

I feel like Ultra Ego is basically Vegeta going Super Saiyan Blue, but activating Hakai ki instead of Saiyan God ki.

The thing is not that they have to give up something. The pathway to their god of destruction forms is not a sacrifice. It is about getting rid of any unnecessary distractions. Beerus mentioned that the key to his destruction power is that he is solely focused on destruction. Topo's sense of justice was a distraction he had to get rid of. Vegetas guilt was a distraction he had to get rid of. Note how similar this is to ultra instinct. Only, the goals are different. Ultra instinct is about getting rid of any and all distractions to completely clear one's mind, ultra ego is about getting rid of any and all distractions to focus solely on destruction.

Unrelated, but the only way for Piccolo to catch up to Vegeta and Goku, aside from fusing with the other universe namekians (which would be unnecessary unless a plot line called for such desperate measures) is if he began training with the Supreme Kais. If Super Heroes is canon, then this would be super fitting. God of Creation Piccolo doesn’t have too bad of a ring to it.

Ironic thing is that Vegeta would need to create an in between form of Ultra Ego so if he needed to spar with his Master being Beerus, he wouldn't risk total annihilation of universe 7. But I can imagine in another tournament of power how Toppo would react to seeing Vegeta with that power.

Tbh I wish vegeta just got the purple glow toppo had. Kinda similar to mystic gohan when I think about it but with purple around him

I agree with the toppo part but Vegeta a natural killer. Which is why ge able to tap into it.

Hey D Man i love your content you keep it 1000 about Dragon Ball and you really break it down keep up the gd work bro

Toppo only got Ultra Ego Sign, while Vegeta got Ultra Ego proper. The differences between Toppo & Vegeta's method to obtain Ultra Ego is very similar to the differences between Goku's methods to obtain UI Sign & Mastered UI.

UE has tiers just like UI has tiers. Beerus used UI omen in the manga battle royale against the other gods of destruction. But whis said lord Beerus hasn't mastered UI yet.

I think that Toppo's G.O.D. form is more of a G.O.D. equivalent of the Mystic Form that utilizes their inner potential. Vegeta's Ultra Ego is a form like Ultra Instinct. Where it's a fighting technique that is amplified by transformation.

Beerus did what's he telling Vegeta think of nothing but destroying... And bardock co signer... Nothing but victory

Seems like you have to give up what’s most important to you ? Like how thanos had to sacrifice his gamorra for the soul stone

Beerus got to confirm what the hell vegeta got. Vegeta needs to make beams and stuff just dissappear. Not much outside his rage hit boost. Has destroyed a fireball or negated attacks. No body shield etc.

I don’t get why people discuss this fight. If vegeta could beat him in ssbe then why would he even struggle in ue. Plus in the manga he doesn’t even have a G.O.D form.

I was just thinking about this a few days ago

I like how he explained the "biology" plays a different roles in there powers.

The way they wrote Toppo's character contradicts itself. How does a character the fights for justice as a super hero end up a destroyer? He willingly goes from a super hero to something that destroys planets. That's a crazy transition. That's like Goku taking Beerus's job.

The fact that Whis asks Vegeta to become a God of destruction proves that they were once mortals, unlike Angels and Supreme Kais. You probley get an extended life span seeing as it's linked to the Supreme Kai. Beerus is over 75 million years old after all.

The technique of the gods are usually rather interesting remember there are different forms of ultra instinct the state, the sign of awakening and mastered this may be the same case for Vegeta and toppo the hakai is a form of ki u could enshroud yourself in it as toppo did that's how ki attacks didn't even affect him we just gotta wait and learn

don't forget in the anime not sure about the manga Vegeta agreed to become the next God of destruction so he could train with Wiese

Vegeta is on another level 😈🥷

Beerus gave up sleep case closed 😂😂

Dude you’re on point

I like to think Toppo's Form is the "Omen" of Ultra Ego.

Can you imagine if all of this was an actual mythology to a culture 3000 years ago and tied to a certain religion

Remember when goku turns ui first then he turs mui now vegeta easily can run into the destroyer form or you can say the true form the god of destruction

I believe the reason vegeta don’t have the signs is because he didn’t accept to be the god of destruction candidate

Seriously the f*** and led blanket

Not sure if you could've gotten any more in depth with the GoDs that tested the ToP battle ground. I don't remember them tapping into their power, but just some food for thought.

Majin vegeta really similar on the sense of that he needs to have a huge ego and a lot of pride in that his bloodline is number 1 and he is truly the best him and all saiyans

Guys, a fan theory. What if the cell in the new movie is the present timeline cell that somehow survived?

That’s for the Vegeta video

Great video man.

Geekdom I feel you have it wrong when you state that Vegeta, Toppo had to give up something to achieve UE. When Toppo said he gave up on justice. It meant I gave up on being a super hero. Not in exchange for one thing to another. Beerus stated that if Vegeta learns something Beerus shows him he doesn't care if he uses it. So that would imply that Hakai can be obtained through learning destructional energy. Not sacrificings one morality for another. I think Beerus teaching Vegeta about him view of morality, how he holds the weight, guilt of all the saiyans sins. Change of mind helps Vegeta evolve. Not to be able to obtain UE better!

Ultra Ego Vegeta is a mouthful to say. I say we go with Hakai-geta.

time to go back and watch G.O.D. toppo vrs blue vegeta

In the _Dragon Ball Super_ manga, Toppo didn't use a God of Destruction Mode and wasn't indicated to have used Ultra Ego either, so it's currently an anime-only form when counting just the _Dragon Ball Super_ series. Ultra Ego is currently a manga-only technique and transformation, so you could say anime Toppo's God of Destruction Mode and manga Vegeta's Ultra Ego are counterparts to one another between the two continuities of the _Dragon Ball Super_ series. Though God of Destruction Mode allowed Toppo to unofficially become a God of Destruction and tap into Destruction Energy, while Ultra Ego at least makes Vegeta's _ki_ the same as a God of Destruction's in terms of its nature/quality, but he can tap into Destruction Energy as well and gain strength through his fighting spirit burning hotter with all the damage he takes.

ultra ego & ultra instinct are specific to vegeta & goku. great video

has anyone ever considered a possible connection of ultra ego and SSJ3? visually both states lack eye brows, and both have that distict brow ridge, like Red God ki is equal to base, Blue is base god plus SSJ, Super Blue/Blue Evolved equal to SSJ2, and now Ultra Ego as a SSJ3 equivalent

Toppo and vegeta are not in the same league as beerus. Beerus could probably take them both at the same time