It does have live temperature, but it’s measured closer to the heating element than the wax. To see for yourself, set the pot to 90 °C. It will reach 90 in a few minutes but the wax will still be solid.

​@@andorsnhmm, will it go back down if stirred?

European silca system... so you are waxing bikini lines with silca wax? I just use a 3qt instant pot. The same one I use to make rice or meal sides. (Different pot) I got the silicon instant pot lid for the wax too. I use an infrared thermometer gun I got years ago for other projects for my live temp readouts. My silca waxing system blends into my house better than camouflage! So do my bike cleaners (dawn, simple green, orange degreaser) only my suspension cleaner is bike specific.

@@brandonhoffman4712 Do what you want and I will choose Silca every day

That would not be the way to go. Remember strip chip is there to convert the FG to basically wax. Remember on silca instruction vid how much just one chains FG will soften the wax. Once that is done, i do not believe the strip chip can then fix post the FG faffing the wax. It needs to do it live, hence the instructions are very much get wax to 125, then melt strip in, then add chain. I would absolutely not put chain in first with the wax.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Good to know. I have not used a chip yet as current two chains lasting so long! 3500km and 7400km to date. But I drop chains in on top of cold wax, turn pot on, each time I hot melt.

@@stephencharles6932 yep thats perfect for normal re waxing - thats the way to go, just yeah dont do that if you strip chip!

yeah i got a couple of vids of his taken down due to defamation, and the working plan is that if he kept pumping out vids making up lots of nasty stuff (man i have only scratched the surface of malicious crap he has just made up and pumped out there) - that my lawyer will keep liaising with YT asking to demonetize channel. Along with that i have an email from a guy who rides with him from time to time, and is in some chat group with him - he wrote in to advise me i should be careful as Durian has been looking for anyone keen to "brick my house" for him - so that is nice. Anyhoo will be forwarding that on to lawyer and police. What astounds me most re durian is not that despite he is just so obviously a pile of human garbage who makes up horrific crap about people for drama and views - it is the way of the world that similarly morally bankrupt and stupid people will flock to that, but that he still has people in cycling media that refer to him. It is crazy to hitch your wagon to that immoral train. Thats why i stopped following the likes of chris miller cycling etc - when the co host jesse coyle kept referring to durian - its just frankly unbelievable. For oh so many good reasons he is mostly a pariah in cycling industry, and for those whom he isnt yet - that says a lot of really bad things about them. Anyone in cycling associating with that very, very bad man in anyway should be avoided

thats cool, but unless you are testing and need extremely accurate wear measures - cyclists just need a relatively cheap and simple drop in checker so it can be quickly and easily used frequently, so they know when to replace. Remember also that overall zfc recommends against full chain measure (or even 60cm would be way too long for optimal use) due to the fact chains do not wear evenly, and in many cases the difference by section can be surprisingly large. We want those shorter 8 to 12 link length check tools, and quickly check circa 5 sections, and use most worn section as the replacement mark. It can be on chains that one section is at 0.4, and another is at 0.6 - if a section is that worn, we need to replace chain. Full length elongation measures, or such a long tool - will miss this important part of checking and ensuring not having a more worn than average section causing wear damage to drivetrain. So in short, for 99.99% of cyclists, a shorter tool is the one they want.

No need to preheat the chain. Just put the chain in the solid wax. As it heats up, it'll help the wax melt more quickly since it has much higher conductivity than the wax.

​@@neutronpcxt372 For some reason Silca adds the chain after the chip ( before any grease has dissolved into the wax) when the wax is up to 125°C . Adam currently thinks it likely if you do it your way round ( let the grease dissolve in the wax before adding the chip ) the reaction won't work. Hopefully Silca will tell Adam what can and can't be done ? If not he may test it as it looks just from this video's comments that many will try it.

@@neutronpcxt372 You cannot do this for strip chip use. Strip chip must be melted into the wax for it to take care of the FG, so the FG does not negatively impact the wax. It does not work in retrospect, it will not unscramble the egg. The silca use instructions are clear - heat wax to 125, then melt in strip chip, then add the chain. If you are looking to use strip chip to degrease FG on a new chain, do not put chain in as you heat up wax. Normal re waxing - that is for sure best practice, but not for strip chip.

Another factor to take into account is that once your chain is in the molten wax it will touch the bottom of the pot ... which will be the hottest and ideally at the set temperature of 125°C. Pot and chain are good heat conductors so once contact is made one could assume the wax around the chain would be more quickly up to temperature then wax further away in the pot. It takes almost one hour for the wax in my pot to be at 75-80°C. To reach 125°C afterwards it takes a full 20 mins at least. I have to admit the pot is well filled with wax. And over time it did not get less after treating 3 new chains with strip chip. Also consider that with a set temperature of the pot of 125°C the wax does not reach exactly this temperature - there will always exist a temperature gradient between the heating pot and the exposed wax surface in the pot - So it can be understood that the reaction of the strip chip with the factory grease will already start well below the set temperature of 125°C. Most probably with an optimal range/rate somewhere around 110-120°C. At least that is how I would design it considering the reaction parameters (reaction time vs reaction temperature) involved. (Edited for typos)

wow that is interesting, that is really what it needs - why dont we have that......

Our pot that we have been using in the shop has a live temp readout, we are in Australia.

I have also such a pot. The readout is not the real wax temperature. Probably just the temperature of the heating element steered by the pid controller.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Adam, my Australian one also has a live temp readout (but yeah, it reads close to the element, it's not showing the correct temperature of the contents). Happy to drop it past for an examination...

You can get a wired mini-probe thermometer that runs off 2 x 2032 coin cells from any coffee machine company, which is used to check the temperature in the grouphead of older manual machines, & you can stick the probe with aluminium tape to the wall of your crock pot, sorry, wax enmeltificator (or whatever they call it), which will tell you exactly the same thing for, oh, I'd guess 1/5 of what Silca wants for a name-brand version.

In the testing its new bits every test so new rings are not causing that for the first couple of thousand kms, it starts to be introduced on the worst products tested trying to get through tougher blocks when chain is knackered and lubricant doesnt last the intervals

I noticed that some of the ~$500 Magene power meter crankset chainrings have fairly primitive tooth profiles, and a bit of stamping/machining burr. I've been assured that their somewhat average initial shifting performance (precursor of chain suck?) will improve over time: much like the 90s Deore XT chainrings did (yes I'm that old).

Thanks tobias and great suggestions - yes it a bit of mix / mess at the moment as earlier tested products the detail review is document only, i need to re do those on video - and having and embedded link in the name to the detail review though is a great idea, will look to see if i can implement! date will be groovy too but will have to think re how best implement that

And yet you will use the same chemicals to clear them all. White spirit does not care what company chain you doing, it will work on them all.... Same when you are washing your hands, do you have 10 different chemicals to perform task dependent on what chemicals may be on your hands?

I don't think they claim they're removing the grease so much as converting it to something that is so soft it's displaced by shaking the chain. That's how I took it anyway. I have the strip chips but I'm still doing a strip before I wax but i'm going to at some point give it a try.

That is a valid concern, but to a degree i think we need to take Josh's run through on this at merit unless we discover otherwise. I think it was on their own marginal gains pod re launch - josh covers the very large amount of testing over the last couple of years to ensure that the above concern is not a concern. Yes indeed the FG's are superficially at least quite different, but overall will still be variants on a main theme. Overtime if we can detect that strip chipping a shimano vs a sram vs a ybn etc lead to a different post strip chip result with the wax treatment, and there was not as optimal outcome - this will come to light. But from what i have done so far - the concern i have had is with the temperature drop, and the first sram strip chip wax a little (but detecably) tacky, whereas second sram chain factoring temp drop - is not. Have also done a ybn - all seems perfect (again giving an extra 10 mins due to temp drop). Will do a shimano soon - but im not expecting an issue - i really think they will be covered. Yes you are for certain far from alone re concerns on how hard silca goes on the marketing - and if some products are over sold and promised / priced. I give a bit more leeway as long as a product is a genuinely performing product - its up to me / consumer to weigh up if the price & performance match re should i spend my hard earned $$ on that, or something cheaper that i think would do just as well. But i can be more lenient because i do want companies heavily investing in R&D and bringing genuinely good to great products to market to make viable return and survive into the future. From investing in creating, testing, bringing to scale production , launching, global distribution, sales and customer and as always some warranty support etc etc - company overheads, staff , insurance on and on and on - all has to be able to be paid from the margin by mfg to the sale price to the importer, who then adds margin to sell to w/sale accounts - who then add margin to sell retail. So for the big majority of sales, silca isnt pocketing the margin from production cost to RRP, its the margin of production cost to importer sale price - and that margin has to cover all costs of running the business plus pay back the R&D and bringing to production and market. Going hard on the marketing to try to sell as much of your product in a competitive space as possible - that is going to be pretty normal - but the products at the end of the day need to walk the talk. I am more concerned re the a number of MFG who pump out marketing that is complete BS vs product reality, and they are much bigger than silca and selling way more stuff to way more people - and products that do not walk the talk of the marketing at all. But as they are so cheap to make, they offer vastly better margins to importer and w/sale accounts, so better margins to all involved in selling - hence what you see taking up most shelf space at most LBS. But overall - i for sure get where you are coming from - it is getting to be a more and more common concern re silca, and i think they will have to pay attention to if they are pushing the marketing line too hard sometimes.... but again if the products are genuinely good to great - i give much more leeway vs others. Sorry for the over type - but yeah businesses staying viable in cycling is hobby interest of mine! :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for your detailed reply. I don't know about whether it *is* effective (I haven't used it, let alone on a variety of different brands of chain) but your detailed and thorough testing should go some way towards sorting that out. I am habitually suspicious of claims of easy accomplishment of something that everyone else, including experienced & knowledgeable chemical engineers, have found difficult until now (Molten Speedwax have told me of their struggles with this: they are at least equals with Silca in this field). Maybe they've been looking in the wrong place; maybe their thinking is clouded by "It's the way it's always been done" (possibly I'm in that camp). Heck, the guys who designed the chain preservative in the first place, they are doing the opposite: trying to make the goo stick to the chain as long and hard as possible. I think YBN, as you say, despite/because of their "SLA" (Superior Lubricating Aid: PTFE & Nickel I think?) chain coating, is the easiest to clean, in this regard? Does the Strip Chip work better or the same on this chain surface/goo (I'm going to call it 'goo' from now on) because it already cleans off better in solvent rinses/ultrasonic preparation? & as an owner of 3 or 4 *real* Silca track pumps from the 80s & 90s, I'll remain cross at Mr Poertner badge-engineering mid-market Taiwanese P&A with faux Italian heritage (& jacking up the prices to get his 'return on investment') that he bought for what was basically a song. It's about honesty, and not attempting to gull the impressionable (like my mate who thought it was still owned by an Italian family and got his wife to buy him their ridiculously overpriced Allen key set for his birthday) with false claims to heritage values. Much as I am angry at BMW calling one of their crappiest cars the Mini (& yes, I owned a BMC Mini Cooper for about 10 years before a stupid/clumsy taxi driver wrote it off).

@@robertwhyte3435 & how do they know how effective it has been? It's a bit 'stab in the dark', IME, with only longitudinal testing (thanks Adam) able to prove or disprove their marketing woo. I'm not willing to do the testing on my own drivetrains/customers drivetrains, because I reckon my agitating solvent bath/settling tank/distillation rig and decent quality ultrasonic cleaner do a pretty good job already. Why buy frozen oven chips in a bag, when it takes not much time peeling & chopping decent organic potatoes to make your own, that consequently don't taste like wallpaper paste of the commercial variety? You only really have Silca's word for it that it's reducing the goo down to stuff the wax can deal with/absorb/incorporate, so that it will stick directly to the metal of the chain links (& I'm habitually suspicious of Josh's pronouncements on anything cycling-related). In the the least-worst scenario it's polluting the wax with the FG/goo broken-down compounds that aren't friendly to this process; at worst, it's not doing what it says it does (not completely, anyway), doing a worse job than solvent breakdown and ultrasonic removal would.

Absolutely MUST be at 0.5% if you want to protect your cassette and chainrings from rapid wear. A lot of wear damage to those components will occur running chains to 0.75%. New chain checkers with the earliest measure being 0.75% or 0.8% should not be sold. It is like saying the best wear mark for your tire wear is when you can see canvas through the tread. It is far too late.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks!

My order took over a month, arrived yesterday. They are changing warehouse/logistics supplier for Europe according to their customer support team. An absolutely s*** show.

​@@lh3071thanks that's good to know. I don't mind delays but I expect regular updates from them. I'm hoping for a very big discount off my next order.

@@lh3071 lets hope that gets improved soon as they bed in. that is a long long time these days....

@@lh3071 did you get tracking info? Were there any taxes/duty to pay on receipt?

I went to order something yesterday and all my loyalty points have gone. It was only about $10 worth but I decided not to order because of that

possibly - since i have heard that others have live (albeit apparently quite delayed temp -ie it is showing the temp of the element, not the wax, so the live temp is still WAY ahead of wax temp) - so i will check mine, will press more buttons after setting and see if there is an extra press to lock in that set temp and then show live temp

?? i have 3 test machines, and 3 is the max a) for room and b) i wouldnt have the time resources to try to run more than 3 machines and tests at a time. Alas, i have a lot of other zfc work to do as well as the testing. I am not a government employee :)

I do single application longevity testing - to 0.1% (once the treatment is worn off and we have used 20% of a chains wear allowance, running it past that is pointless, im just testing with basically no lubricant which is not fun). The data is on website - just note that the relating of the kms achieved on machine to any actual person in real world is very approximate AND ultimate lifespan vs when a wax chain is feeling and sounding dry and so is not pleasurable to ride is also different. In general for all one should aim to re wax at around 300km ish for best experience and drivetrain longevity, and only check re outright longevity if have a very long event etc

Thanks Stuart! And depends what you mean by protect.... if its protect from friction and wear, then the sticky wax wont be as good. In dry road conditions i would not be too worried about riding it, offroad more dust is going to stick than would likely happen with the wax being in its normal condition. You could expect that efficiency would be also not as good as there will be more stiction and viscous friction on every sliding surface movement, of which there are a lot of those per minute (about 300,000 in the big ring at 90 cadence). Let me know how attempt 2 goes. I am worried that if strip chip is not able to convert the FG as it is designed on the first go, the FG will negatively impact the wax. That is the point of the strip chip, is to stop the negative change to the wax if just directly wax over FG. Once that has occurred, i dont believe you can deal with it retrospect - it could be like asking it to unscramble the egg so to speak. I used fresh wax for my 2nd attempt after first attempt turned out not to be perfect on inspection post ride so i could better assess any difference giving it more time to get back to proper temp. I personally wouldnt re use the wax from my first attempt - but this is easier for me, i get bulk HM at w/sale. If following the instructions leads to an issue for normal consumers - that could be an ouch re wax $$. I think silca will be looking at the above deeper and hopefully change official instructions soon.

Ok so I redid two chains with the original Silca wax. I also recorded the temperature as I put the chains in. The first time I put the chains in to the Silca pot about 3 weeks ago the ambient temperature was 10 Celsius ( I did not monitor the wax temp drop). Today the ambient temp was 22 Celsius, with the 11 speed chain there was no appreciable temp drop (3 degrees at most). I followed the directions and kept monitoring the temp and took the chain out at the appropriate time. The wax was not sticky upon removal. The original chain with the sticky wax was inserted next (flat top SRAM chain 12 speed) into the wax when the wax reached the correct temperature with the strip chip 125 Celsius (I was treating that chain again as if it had fresh factory oil on). I noticed with the SRAM chain when inserted into the wax pot increased the wax pot temp to 140 Celsius before coming back to stabilize at 125 after about 3 minutes of chain immersion. After following the Silca directions I removed the chain, the wax was not sticky and felt like regular wax. The only thing I cannot test, is of course, frictional wear. So for me it seems the rewaxing worked? But of course this is anecdotal. Always appreciate your insight and knowledge. Regards.

@@stuart3901 hey stuart! yep silca are now embarking on more testing of their own re temp drop and do times need to increase - josh said they will be putting a bunch of chains in the freezer :) I think as long as the wax "Feels normal" - and not tacky - then all is going to be groovy as far as wax prep for a training chain. I will be trying to get ceramic speed to efficiency test HM wax strip chip prepped chain to see if it is slower than normal HM - but not sure when this may be, however if i was me, until i had this information, i would personally lean towards other prep methods still for a race day chain just in case (as well as other prep methods will help ensure less metal from mfg in the race wax). I have no idea what could be behind a temp increase to 140c, that sounds like an energetic chemical reaction going on, which on the surface would seem to be a strange thing to happen with wax and grease. Not saying that its not possible there is some heat energy generated by the chemical process of converting the grease, but 15c is a lot of thermal energy in say 300ml of liquid - that sure seems like a lot.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I agree the temp seemed like a huge jump, I used a submersible temp thermometer that was not touching the bottom of the pot and a laser thermometer. It will be interesting to see what Josh at Silca has to say. Thank you again for all your hard work, posts and insight!

Ha yes i can for sure understand how you would be getting that vibe! For a product that is aimed to make getting your FG chain waxed as the easiest and least steps possible, this has for sure generated quite a high number of questions and potential incorrect use issues and thus usage clarifications. Silca themselves have done at least one vid on FAQ's re strip chip use, and i will have yet another update i think to quickly cover next vid. Overall - it will be simple, and very groovy path for some, just i will want to ensure on product page on ZFC site, and the update to the chain prep guide - will hopefully easily cover off some the now apparent potential usage issues. Basically though; > Temp control pot needed really. > Note the pot temp display is circa 10 mins ahead of actual temp - give it 10 mins more after display shows 125c. > Melt in strip chip. > After putting chain in, as opposed to 10 mins in wax as per current instructions - allow 10 mins for pot to bring back up to temp, and 10 mins at 125 to do its magic - swishing every 5 mins to ensure wax flowing through chain. This is not necessarily less time or steps vs cleaning with say Stripper or DT clean, however it does mean not faffing with any sort of cleaning solvent, solvent disposal, rinsing chain, drying chain etc etc. The more good options avail that cover one persons preference vs another - the more likely there will be a great option for that persons preference. I was busy ultrasonic prepping chains for zfc, i had a chain to do for myself and a friend, and honestly it was really easy to do following the above. I was doing stuff in the work shop, all i had to do was just X then y when my watch timer went off - and boom they were done.

Ah, maybe not if I were using a strip chip

For normal rewaxing yes that is the correct method (or for waxing post solvent clean etc). Just not for strip chip, the FG will adversely affect the wax before then adding strip chip - it would be like trying to unscramble an egg.

I asked Josh about that, thinking as you no doubt do, that the cold chain will cool the wax and form a barrier... and the rest. He said they tested pre-warming the chain and it did work better but the difference was marginal and probably wouldn't make a noticeable difference. I preheat mine too, lol, but I just use a heat gun and measure the temp with a heat gun.

@@robertwhyte3435 That may very well be true, but preheating the chain gives me a warm and fuzzy.

@@laneromel5667 a warm and fuzzy what ?

Put your cold chain on top of your solid wax, turn on the melting pot and leave it. Check every-now-and-then and once the wax has completely melted, do some swishing and you're good to go.

@@laneromel5667 that could be good idea if using strip chip to degrease - but for normal re waxing just put chain in as wax heats up. Pre heating separately is unnecessary faff, and wont do anything that heating the chain up with the wax would do. You dont need to worry about penetration when you are putting chain submerged in liquid, the chain is far from waterproof, it is not a submarine. The issue that people have who put a chain in cold, swish and remove - is simply the remaining old coating did not have time to melt off, be flushed out, and replaced with fresh wax. So just put chain on wax and turn pot on and the swish when at temp and hang to set. Pre heating for normal re waxing aside from being unnecessary faff, also what happens to the wax melting off not in the pot etc. Overall such a process seems harmless, but remember immersive waxing is constantly fighting a miss conceptions that it is a huge time commitment and a lot of faffing. If i talk a cyclist re waxing i can explain the correct process and how simple and easy it is. Vs some others that add in extra completely unnecessary and zero benefit steps - it just puts more people off who may have considered but then go far out wtf is with all that, i aint going there.

i dont think for any temps we would actually ride in. It doesnt matter that the wax is softer in hotter temps. I do heat sessions in the sauna at 50 to 55dg c, and havent been able to detect any negative to treatment lifespan or seen a strange reduction in chains lifespan - mind you it is taking me awhile to clock up enough trainer kms just yet - but thus far i cant detect an impact. So riding in even 40dg celsius which for most would be about the max - in 8 years + of selling wax i have had only one or maybe its two - people write in with concerns - but it was just concern based on temp and melting wax, not anything based on hey my wax isnt lasting or my chain didnt last as long as expected on wax etc. So no i dont think so, i havent seen any evidence yet that high temps are negatively impacting wax.

yeah i should remember to do that thanks! i did make a mental note once but it seems i filed that mental note in my recycle bin...

does infa red work accurately on wax? i would double check that..... a cheap cooking or candy thermometer will be cheaper by miles than an infra red

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fN9go6t4yM23mKc.html will tell you the issue with IR thermometers, namely emissivity which if not adjusted for creates false readings.

it is, but there is some fun it seems re pots that do or maybe dont show live temp., but even those that do show live temp, that live temp is well ahead of the actual wax temp due to where the thermostat is. Stay tuned..