It won’t come as a big surprise perhaps but let’s see the extent of the disparity between passable, good and great!
Пікірлер: 118
@vktravellog1242 Жыл бұрын
Seiko needs to have better accuracy especially for watches in the 1k to 5k range. I am shocked how poorly the 8L35 movement performed given that it is a grand seiko movement!
@johngoodenough31343 жыл бұрын
Also my Tudor Pelagos has been running nonstop for 7 months and is around -1 to 0 a day. Absolutely stunning.
@TheChadWork20012 жыл бұрын
Mine too! -1 per day. Best mechanical movement I've ever experienced. I advise any new watch person who cares about accuracy, to take a time-grapher in with you when you buy a watch and show the sales people you mean business.
@michaelhavlicek3233 Жыл бұрын
Same with my Pelagos. Just love it. Michael from Germany
@almcl93913 жыл бұрын
Fair comments and I'd say neither 6r15 nor 6r35 are anything to boast about but i feel you don't buy a 3hz unregulated machine made Seiko for accuracy (or bracelet...). You buy because looks pretty good, wears well and is proper tested diver that you can take diving etc without a doubt in your mind at fair price. Less likely you'll do that with your better watches. Likewise comparing an authentic to homage companies that dont have shell for manufacturing, design, r+d etc and just drop in the mmt perhaps a little unfair (truthfully which you gonna show your wrist to someone?). If want Rolex accuracy, they do have that (GS, Credor), but then just need pay for it, the same as Rolex (downside is service quality, intervals, location and depreciation, hence why we buy Rolex etc, but dont mind picking up a Seiko here and there 😉)
@tuberaider5 ай бұрын
Thank you for making this video. I don't think anyone has taken the time and effort to actually compare these movements this way. Great job!
@milosdjordjevic37082 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this review! As I only know little about mechanical watches this was really informative. I bought my Seiko SBDC121 Diver’s watch here in Japan, and after 7 months it started losing about 1 minute per day. I sent it back to Seiko a month ago, hopefully it will be good when they give it back. Before it was running fast when its cold (about 5 sec fast), and slow on a hot summer (maybe about 10 secs). If it can keep up that kind of accuracy for years to come I would be satisfied… Too bad that now I know it’s a cheap movement. Btw I still love my watch as it is the first and only mechanical one I have!
@nachovalenti3 жыл бұрын
Great and very informative video. Swiss movements are more accurate than Japanese by far. I love Seiko but...
@MsJake1993 жыл бұрын
For the simple 6r35s and similar this is correct but vintage King and Grand Seikos and modern Grand Seikos are on the same level with swiss calibers
@jameshoward97003 жыл бұрын
Nice! Pure Seiko geek-out! I think that John P vid was pretty basic - a strong vested interest behind it. It's a common criticism to knock Seiko. But, I think Seiko could tighten up regulation spec on all movements. On average (10 days on the wrist), none of my 11 Seikos run beyond 6s/d, most within 3 (Marinemaster 300/Tuna/SLAs at 3 or 2s/d; Hi-Beats at +1). That said, I don't own a 6R35. 6L35 is the equivalent of a ETA 2892, (Longines L888), not 2824 - it was designed for a replacement fit and primarily used (rebadged) by Swiss Soprod. 8L35 is an interesting movement - a huge, ground up specialist dive watch movement. Very unusual. Designed for massive torque (reliability under pressure, shock and in extreme climate, not desk accuracy). This is totally different to the little generic movements in Tudor, Omega, Rolex etc that serve in anything from an office watch to a pro diver. Where they test in 6 positions, Seiko test at 4000m! But in my experience, current Rolex is a lot more accurate (topside!) than Metas Omega and Tudor ETA2824 runs well at +/-2s/d. Loninges L888 is very strong too (1s/d). Spring Drive annihilates all of them (1s/month for GS, 2s/month for Seiko) - better than most battery quartz.
@TheChadWork20012 жыл бұрын
Seiko accuracy is like Russian Roulette. It's hit or miss with all of their mechanical watches.
@clo27152 жыл бұрын
Does anybody wear their watches long enough for accuracy to be an issue? If your changing watches every couple days or at the end of the week by the time you go back to a watch you have to set the time anyways.
@martinhiltmann12262 жыл бұрын
One aspect to notice ist the frequency they're running. Of course theres a difference between 3Hz and 4Hz calibers. But 1/4 less beats at least theoretically pays back with longer lasting mechanics. Those watches from Seiko, many of them part of the Prospex line, are ment to be long-lasting robust tools, not pecision instruments. On the other hand, they've created the probably most accurate mechanical caliber line with the Spring Drive, eating up all the others. And... With full respect to the efforts you've taken and the time you've spent, there is a good chance on all the watches you tested, that they show different values fully wound, half-wound and near-"empty", compensating some of the inaccuracies, or making it even worse, as you mention at the end of the video. Could they do better? Of course. Should they? Probably. Do I personally care about a few seconds a day on a mechanical watch? Nope, within a range like those Seikos. My personal point of view, with some Seikos and many swiss luxury watches I enjoy: I'm fine with their accuracy, if a few seconds up and down per day flatten out over some days of real wearing them. If highest accuracy is the thing I'm looking for, I personally refer to the GPS ajusted Astrons or Grand Seikos hand selected crystals and temperature compensating Quartz calibers. But at the end: Thank you very much for this interesting comparison!
@Anirossa Жыл бұрын
But the 6Rs have so far been proven to be less reliable than 4R movements, so not sure where you got that idea from...
@ppadilla8990 Жыл бұрын
@@Anirossa They are erratic at best honestly one day is at +5 and the other at -31
@kbeightyseven178311 ай бұрын
Completely agree, I have had 2 eta 2824's fail with the reverser sticking and ultimately stripping gears
@Jon-nz3dm7 ай бұрын
@@Anirossa When you have $600 watches with hardlex(and common QC issues) and $1200 watches running all over the place like -15 to +20 per day, you aren't really competitive. Relying solely on heritage and name recognition can only do so much. I love many of the designs Seiko produce but I'm kind of a stickler for accuracy AND I don't have a ton of money so I find many European microbrands to be the best option. I do have a watch with an NH35 in it running at about -4 to +5 per day so that is good. And I highly doubt the brand using it in the watch spent time regulating it(very cheap watch).
@nick-just3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the effort you put into this, really interesting. Just to note, I think the lift angle should have been set to 53 degrees (not 52) on your timegrapher for the 6r35s.
@tywinn57862 жыл бұрын
The angle should have been 53 degrees. Not 52.
@NathanHassall Жыл бұрын
Let me be the first to mention The angle should have been 53 degrees. Not 52.
@Not-a-bot2229 күн бұрын
Just a heads up, the lift angle needs to be 53 not 52 for the 6R
@josephstratti522 жыл бұрын
About time someone showed how hit and miss these seiko calibres can be!No eta calibre that I have ever owned is as off as these seiko calibres he is showing.eta 2824 7750 7001 2893 all make these seiko calibres seem weak for consistency.
@Jungleman7073 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this, what a good idea!!! Would be great to measure a Patek, and your two Zenith chronos with chrono running and stopped!!
@j8sdx3 жыл бұрын
The Seiko accuracy does suck abit, I love Seikos for the designs I have 3 8l35 and all are about +15, 8l55 I have is about +1 and all the lower 6r and 4r movements i have are also between about 10-15 seconds slow or fast.
@TheChadWork20012 жыл бұрын
Seiko mechanical accuracy sucks and is all over the place. Their cheap ones and their expensive ones. I'm not counting their older Chronometer certified or VFA movements.
@ppadilla8990 Жыл бұрын
man that is ok for a basic movement but for a 1k$+ watch is unnaceptable
@underachievingwatchcollect18783 жыл бұрын
Sad to hear you sold your AT.
@bbrebozo64173 жыл бұрын
The best time keeping mechanical can’t be measured on a tinegrapher (spring drive).
@MohammedKhaled-ju7gy3 жыл бұрын
Yeah hard pass. If the time varies greatly and cost 1k it’s not worth it. If I want a toy watch, I can buy some for less than 50$ I’ve bought 2 sumos and left very disappointed. I bought 800$ certina ds action diver and it’s nearly accurate to cosc out of the box
@jonnywrongturn.4143 Жыл бұрын
Such a good video. The 6r just doesn’t live up, however it could be serviced into a good momentum
@Anirossa Жыл бұрын
Unless like my 4R, seiko bins it and put in a new one when it had a problem under warrancy, as was cheaper than paying one of their watchmaker to work on it for longer 😢
@carlodelavera9735 Жыл бұрын
The 6R is the movement found in the presage line most often. The 6L is a higher beat at 28000 where the 6R is 21600
@modulo36642 жыл бұрын
My 6r35 runs poorly (-20 dial up, -30 crown up) on a timegrapher but manages to get -3/+5 due to speedup as the power reserve winds down overnight.
@TheChadWork20012 жыл бұрын
Rolex, has those movements down to a science, and you can see it in their in-house Tudor movements as well.
@MBrown-ct5zn3 жыл бұрын
Wow great video! Thank you for this comparison. My BB58 is really a keeper. Its excellent on my timegrapher as well. Worthy of owning and passing down. My Seiko SLA021J1 was sent to Seiko USA for servicing. My beat error was at 2.0 and bad timekeeping. Will be there for a long while due to parts from Japan being shipped over.
@strapped2time3 жыл бұрын
I really get bothered when someone says that their Seiko runs within COSC or something comparable. There’s specific criteria to meet COSC standards beyond the watch running within -4 to +6 seconds. Most Seikos have a positional variance (positional delta) well beyond COSC certification. I’ve had decent movements (under 20 second delta) and horrible movements (50+ second delta). Mind you, I enjoy my Seikos as well, but I don’t have delusions of grandeur. Lol.
@mrwatch10913 жыл бұрын
Conclusion: don't watch John P and enjoy your seiko's despite their performance.
@JoshStallings12 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I know understand why some days my Turtle keeps good time and others is way off. Where my Tudor Ranger with its ETA 2824 keeps great time, period.
@kenstruelens51123 жыл бұрын
Interesting video ! As an 8L35 based watch owner, I have a few “Marinemaster 300” variants, the differences between them out of the box are noticeable but not dramatic to be honest. And, they can be regulated to run very precise. My SLA021 was serviced and regulated by Seiko NL recently and runs incredibly precise ever since. Would I like Seiko to regulate them from the factory ? Yes ! However, this will never be done due to the Japanese cultural barrier. A normal Seiko will never be regulated because there is Grand Seiko and they won’t dare to insult those customers in offering “the same thing” for less money, it’s simple Japanese ethics.
@nintendokings2 жыл бұрын
That’s normal business ethics. If anything, Seiko isn’t afraid to give us a similar design throughout different price classes. Swiss brands would put a pay wall to get a certain design
@rahmanwang3 жыл бұрын
Very informative video. Thank you.
@yaaxarr89773 жыл бұрын
Ty so much for such a great comparison 🙏🏻❗️ I need to hunt that BB black ceramic
@harrycee6569 ай бұрын
The timgrapher readings are for reference only. What matters is on wrists accuracy. The DUW3001 I have is adjusted in 6 positions had variation of 5s and average of -3s/d. On wrist it is -1s/d consistently. I kinda wish they would have done just 5 positions for tighter variation. I regulated ST2130 to +1s/d. That Seiko 8L35 movement has solid amplitude in those positions. Seiko makes some nice high end movements. I would love to know why yhe 6R have such large positional variations. I still got mine regulated to +1-3s/d consistently but that variation doesn't give me the quality vibes. My NH34-36 are tighter. I am kinda surprised in the 70deg amplitude drop on that BB. Seems a bit high. It may get better but given the amount of testing and running the movement experiences before sale there is not any break-in left. Otherwise, all those fancy certs mean nothing if the movement is t already at steady state.
@johncherry18702 жыл бұрын
informative video. I have to say I have a coupe of Seiko's one with the 6R35 movement which for me runs 2.1 seconds fast per day. I'm happy with that range. Will definitely check out more Swiss made in the future.
@DrNitin142 жыл бұрын
People always bemoan about accuracy on Seiko. But the two higher grade movements were consistently more accurate. The 8L35 and 6L35. I own cosc Swiss movements and Japanese movements as well as an Omega co-axial. The co-axial is crazy accurate and consistent. But my second preference is the Japanese movements. Why? Are they the most accurate? No but they ARE more reliable. I have 6 Japanese autos and not a single fault. I've had 6 sellitas and 2 ETAs, both ETAs sent back for a fault in 2 years and 4 out of 6 sellitas were sent back too. That is HORRENDOUS especially given the price tag. Reliability and maintenance over accuracy any day.
@jicalzad2 жыл бұрын
good point
@Napperproductions2 жыл бұрын
I think it's been commented on but the lift angle for the seikos is 53! Not 52, it'll help bring those number more in spec! :p awesome video tho! Thanks
@josephstratti522 жыл бұрын
That will only show up on the amplitude calculation and have no effect on the beat error or the time range.
@gang208 Жыл бұрын
And the lift angle for 2824 is 50, which explains why the apparent amplitude is high here.
@prwoland37508 ай бұрын
Well I find this 2 years after your recorded it but thanks a lot - I’m all in on accuracy (limite psychopathe) and I’m a bit shocked as well by Seiko. My OG SKX009 never serviced in 20 years (that’s how it should be with 7S26) is actually as accurate as my 6R35 Willard (limited edition ~1,300 usd). Grrr
@watchingandseeing3 жыл бұрын
Rather have one Tudor BB than 10-20 seikos
@otistheo77463 жыл бұрын
I realize it is kinda off topic but do anyone know of a good place to stream newly released tv shows online?
@chadlevi74023 жыл бұрын
@Otis Theo Lately I have been using FlixZone. Just google for it :)
@uriahcamdyn12343 жыл бұрын
@Chad Levi Yea, I've been using flixzone for since march myself :D
@otistheo77463 жыл бұрын
@Chad Levi Thanks, I signed up and it seems to work :) I really appreciate it !
@chadlevi74023 жыл бұрын
@Otis Theo no problem xD
@johngoodenough31343 жыл бұрын
Another informative vid. My spb149 is also running around +15 a day and the case back is on so tight I can’t get it off to regulate it myself 😞👍
@inkhaurt58123 жыл бұрын
The 6L35/Soprod A10 is more like an ETA 2892 competitor in my opinion. Both are very thin and have better tech than a 2824.
@markloubser243310 ай бұрын
Interesting but in fact the dial up (horizontal\flat) position is probably the rarest position for a watch. .... You will probably get cramp trying to sit at your desk with it so........
@Bob.martens2 жыл бұрын
Second Seiko has the Seiko-fever: amplitude way too low. It will never be really accurate, no matter the regulation. Possibly overlubricated from factory. Nothing you can do except full service, which costs more than a new movement. Your new movement from Seiko might be ok or just as bad. This movement QC does not belong in a +1000 $ watch like this.
@d.kashani9 ай бұрын
I have the spb143 and I get -3/+3 daily i guess i got lucky. I love that limited edition king seiko that’s a special watch that I had my eye on. I just recently purchased the seiko 62MAS sje093 limited edition with the 6L37. I will be taking delivery of it in a couple days I’m looking forward to see what I average with that watch.
@slvrbck893 жыл бұрын
my sbdc101 started life at +30s. After first regulation -15, after 2nd regulation +25 and now finally after the 3rd visit its running at -5s per day. Think I'll move on from seiko and go for the bb58
@davelowey30742 жыл бұрын
Hi just watched your video 7months after you uploaded it, looks as if you put alot of work into it, i believe moast affordable Seiko's should be regulated by the wearer my personal watch that i built myself from parts, was running -7 s/d so i regulated it over a few days it's very accurate and consistent now -1 s/d or just under, it's an NH35A a very good and robust movement totally on par with Swiss counterparts, Cheers.
@camarocarl71302 жыл бұрын
My new SPB151 is all over the place on the timegrapher also, plus16 to minus 03. On the wrist it runs plus 05 per day, so not bad at all. I got lucky. My Turtles all run within COSC also but were one third the cost!
@rebolorto3 жыл бұрын
Accuracy can be an argument to when judging a brand but…i think Jean Claude Biver tell in interviews that a watch is not for reading time…if you need to read time you have smartphone and a smartphone is quite accurate…nevertheless it’s a fact that Seiko is charging a lot for their watches compared to the others brand but what is the maintenance cost compared to a METAS certified watch ?
@MsJake1993 жыл бұрын
In Bivers world people might not buy watches to use for timetelling but in my (more humble) daily life and Im shure for many others too its usefull to have the time on the wrist and not have to take out a phone which is clumsy and distracting. But I do also agree that having a Chronometer is a lot about the associated feeling and not the few seconds time difference in daily life. It gives me a reassuring feeling to see the straight lines on my timegrapher.
@trevbarlow97193 жыл бұрын
Accurate time testing is not sufficient to make a good watch, but it is necessary.
@MsJake1993 жыл бұрын
Even my Tudor 2824 is avg +2 so they seem to do a great job
@trevbarlow97193 жыл бұрын
Modified 2824s are phenomenal.
@wai-limho38322 жыл бұрын
Somebody should also compare the 9000 series movements from Citizen/miyota
@fishstickssrn39093 жыл бұрын
Wow, time to get some snacks and enjoy!
@richardtreem864 Жыл бұрын
Something isn’t right with that Willard. No way the amplitude should be that low.
@UptickWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
Well, something wasn't quite right with Capt Willard himself ;-)
@Serzh_A488 Жыл бұрын
i pissed off adjusting my 6r35 in sapphire sumo. 3 times in service but for free. now +6 dayly.
@TheChadWork20012 жыл бұрын
I could have said, from experience, how this should have ended up, with the Tudor as the winner. My Pelagos runs at -1 per day. I value accuracy above all else.
@ciaamore20962 жыл бұрын
Longines for me, thx
@GThelljumper0912 ай бұрын
Hey man! Do you happen to know the proper lift angle of the 6L35?
@scottscarpato60253 жыл бұрын
The wobble and difficult winding could be the reversing wheel acting up. I have had the issue with two sellita 2020 movements.
@UptickWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I had the same happen with an Omega 3330/Valjoux and it cleared itself eventually. I might have to give this one the once-over to avoid damage though.
@michaelhavlicek3233 Жыл бұрын
Great Video. Thanks
@andreyvlasenko3892 жыл бұрын
agree about power reserve, sad marketing trend nowadays
@curious55573 жыл бұрын
@Uptick I think your experiment showed the Seikos were all within the accuracy range that they should have been - correct?
@trevbarlow97193 жыл бұрын
Yes, but the range is too big to begin with. His conclusion to have it regulated is a good one. But, they really ought to regulate them beforehand.
@UptickWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
Yes they’re all within factory spec
@curious55573 жыл бұрын
@@trevbarlow9719 True - so you know what you are getting. We all know, or should know what we are getting from a watch before we buy it. Then it becomes our choice.
@jhrodriguez08 Жыл бұрын
You just don’t put a watch on the timegrapher you need to set the lift angle, The 6R35 lift angle is 53….all those tests for 6R35 equipped watches are invalid, The longines ETA is probably 51 degrees…the only thing the timegrapher is able to autodetect is the beat rate
@UptickWatchReviews Жыл бұрын
Damn right. I have actually found the perfect lift angle for the 6R35 which is 90 degrees straight into a garbage bin :-)))
@giangvu79022 жыл бұрын
Very cool video
@Bob.martens2 жыл бұрын
The wobble on the Longines is the automatic winding rotor turning along while you wind it. Not good. Call your watchmaker.
@UptickWatchReviews2 жыл бұрын
Had Longines service it and it runs smooth now
@TheChadWork20012 жыл бұрын
Rolex's Achilles heel is their stupid cyclops lens and their refusal to make a larger date wheel, which is the cause of using the stupid 1950s technology (the lens) on a watch that is 70 years newer. The German and Japanese watchmakers know how to make a readable date wheel. See Grand Seiko or Glasshutte Orignal. Seiko's Achilleas heel is their use of Hardlex instead of sapphire on their lower end models and their lack of accuracy and regulation of all of their mechanical watches.
@fieldwalker Жыл бұрын
Curious to see a 6R15D in the mix! I had my 6R35 regulated and it runs amazing, around +1 or 2 a day. But that worries me all the variance your test showed
@bryanb4308 Жыл бұрын
In my experience it has the same issues as the 6R35, maybe not quite as bad. I just ordered a SARX033 because I loved the look of the watch, it’s really beautiful. I told myself I’d never buy another watch with another 6R in it again, but here I am lol. Kind of sad that $30 NH35 consistently performs better.
@angelset2 жыл бұрын
Yes, the Seikos' angle is wrong. However my 6R35 runs +2"/day (always worn/body temperature) after I've set it for my everyday use. I would avoid the Powermatics because of it's too difficult to set by myself
@beyond36horology3 жыл бұрын
Dear person who thumbed down. Why?
@trevbarlow97193 жыл бұрын
Probably an accident.
@UptickWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
I think same bitter guy thumbs down each vid no matter the content
@beyond36horology3 жыл бұрын
The thumbdown appeared less than 1 hour the video was released. I guess the person subscribed along with notifications just to do that. sad!
@davidb95313 жыл бұрын
Everything that comes out of that John Ps mouth is just for click bait, the guy is not the sharpest tool in the box
@bbrebozo64173 жыл бұрын
Did you wind them up before you put them on the timegrapher?
@UptickWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
Yes, wound up quite a lot. Hard to tell with these long power reserves if they’re fully wound.
@josephstratti522 жыл бұрын
The lower grade seiko movements are long lived but not very consistently accurate.
@bigingo4269 Жыл бұрын
nice
@marcelouhlig34752 жыл бұрын
At around £1500,00 Maurice Lacroix Aikon is highly overpriced for what it delivers
@daviddicicco1953 жыл бұрын
Recently purchased my Tudor BB58 (second owner) and never take it off unless showering/exercising. I have noticed it will keep accurate time for 2 days straight, then it will lose 10 to 13 seconds on the 3rd day always overnight and on my wrist. Is this something you think I should have Tudor look at? Thanks for the video and any feedback you are able to provide!
@MBrown-ct5zn3 жыл бұрын
I would put it on a timegrapher
@bbrebozo64173 жыл бұрын
Try winding it after 2 days and see if it extends its timing stability.
@whodeycinbengalsАй бұрын
The 6r35 is just a shit movement. I purchased several Seikos with that movement right around the time that the movement debuted, and all of them were wildly innacurate.
@japd78973 жыл бұрын
Hajime!!!.
@theenavybluemonster3 жыл бұрын
The 6r35 will get better as they improve it. They’re only on the A version. They made the 6r15 up to version D, I believe. So maybe the 6r15D is more accurate that the 6r35A. Also, did you fully wind the watches because that has a big affect of how the movements perform. Lastly, I found on Caliber Corner that the 6r35 has a lift angle of 53 degrees. So does the 8l35. I’m guessing the 6l35 does too but I couldn’t find any info on that. From what I understand, the lift angle affects the amplitude.
@theenavybluemonster3 жыл бұрын
Also, accuracy means less to me than aesthetics, original design, fit on wrist, and how it makes me feel. For me, Seiko does all that plus some. Also, you could just get it regulated. But I think most of us rotate through our watches so it’s not a big deal. If Seiko did regulate them better, the prices would be higher and people would complain about that and would rather have lower prices with less accuracy.
@UptickWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
Good points. Yes I did wind them all up quite a lot. Say 50-60 winds. They’re all within spec so can’t say we’re not informed in advance.
@nick-just3 жыл бұрын
I’ve heard that with the 6r15 movements the ‘A’ version (slightly different balance apparently) was actually the best, they started to have problems on the later iterations. Check out Spencer Klein’s videos, he’s also posted about it on watch forums.
@theenavybluemonster3 жыл бұрын
@@nick-just That’s interesting. I’ll have to find that video. I really like his videos. Thank you.
@DecemberNames3 жыл бұрын
Dude super interesting video. Gave me new views on Seiko. Less appreciation now. I bet Russian Vostoks for 1/10th the price give more acuracy. I thought Sheikos would have super a curate movements compared with the swiss but this is insane 😵⁉️
@UptickWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
Well, you must compare at the right level. The Seiko movement meant to compete with the ETA 2824 is the 6L35 and it performs in similar fashion. The next level that matches Omega and Tudor is Grand Seiko
@Anirossa Жыл бұрын
Feel pretty impressed by my Citizen Promaster that reliability does +6-8 sec/day with a miyota movement under 200 euros with bezel and everything else being perfect and blue lume that does last a little longer but shine a little less bright than my prospex diver. Guess Ill stay away from seiko mech. movements now that I know. Way too innacurate for me, especially when my sub 200 usd grey market tissot powermatic 80 does +1s/day average with a couple secounds up and down