Seiko needs to have better accuracy especially for watches in the 1k to 5k range. I am shocked how poorly the 8L35 movement performed given that it is a grand seiko movement!

Also my Tudor Pelagos has been running nonstop for 7 months and is around -1 to 0 a day. Absolutely stunning.

Fair comments and I'd say neither 6r15 nor 6r35 are anything to boast about but i feel you don't buy a 3hz unregulated machine made Seiko for accuracy (or bracelet...). You buy because looks pretty good, wears well and is proper tested diver that you can take diving etc without a doubt in your mind at fair price. Less likely you'll do that with your better watches. Likewise comparing an authentic to homage companies that dont have shell for manufacturing, design, r+d etc and just drop in the mmt perhaps a little unfair (truthfully which you gonna show your wrist to someone?). If want Rolex accuracy, they do have that (GS, Credor), but then just need pay for it, the same as Rolex (downside is service quality, intervals, location and depreciation, hence why we buy Rolex etc, but dont mind picking up a Seiko here and there 😉)

Thank you for making this video. I don't think anyone has taken the time and effort to actually compare these movements this way. Great job!

Thank you for this review! As I only know little about mechanical watches this was really informative. I bought my Seiko SBDC121 Diver’s watch here in Japan, and after 7 months it started losing about 1 minute per day. I sent it back to Seiko a month ago, hopefully it will be good when they give it back. Before it was running fast when its cold (about 5 sec fast), and slow on a hot summer (maybe about 10 secs). If it can keep up that kind of accuracy for years to come I would be satisfied… Too bad that now I know it’s a cheap movement. Btw I still love my watch as it is the first and only mechanical one I have!

Great and very informative video. Swiss movements are more accurate than Japanese by far. I love Seiko but...

Nice! Pure Seiko geek-out! I think that John P vid was pretty basic - a strong vested interest behind it. It's a common criticism to knock Seiko. But, I think Seiko could tighten up regulation spec on all movements. On average (10 days on the wrist), none of my 11 Seikos run beyond 6s/d, most within 3 (Marinemaster 300/Tuna/SLAs at 3 or 2s/d; Hi-Beats at +1). That said, I don't own a 6R35. 6L35 is the equivalent of a ETA 2892, (Longines L888), not 2824 - it was designed for a replacement fit and primarily used (rebadged) by Swiss Soprod. 8L35 is an interesting movement - a huge, ground up specialist dive watch movement. Very unusual. Designed for massive torque (reliability under pressure, shock and in extreme climate, not desk accuracy). This is totally different to the little generic movements in Tudor, Omega, Rolex etc that serve in anything from an office watch to a pro diver. Where they test in 6 positions, Seiko test at 4000m! But in my experience, current Rolex is a lot more accurate (topside!) than Metas Omega and Tudor ETA2824 runs well at +/-2s/d. Loninges L888 is very strong too (1s/d). Spring Drive annihilates all of them (1s/month for GS, 2s/month for Seiko) - better than most battery quartz.

Seiko accuracy is like Russian Roulette. It's hit or miss with all of their mechanical watches.

Does anybody wear their watches long enough for accuracy to be an issue? If your changing watches every couple days or at the end of the week by the time you go back to a watch you have to set the time anyways.

One aspect to notice ist the frequency they're running. Of course theres a difference between 3Hz and 4Hz calibers. But 1/4 less beats at least theoretically pays back with longer lasting mechanics. Those watches from Seiko, many of them part of the Prospex line, are ment to be long-lasting robust tools, not pecision instruments. On the other hand, they've created the probably most accurate mechanical caliber line with the Spring Drive, eating up all the others. And... With full respect to the efforts you've taken and the time you've spent, there is a good chance on all the watches you tested, that they show different values fully wound, half-wound and near-"empty", compensating some of the inaccuracies, or making it even worse, as you mention at the end of the video. Could they do better? Of course. Should they? Probably. Do I personally care about a few seconds a day on a mechanical watch? Nope, within a range like those Seikos. My personal point of view, with some Seikos and many swiss luxury watches I enjoy: I'm fine with their accuracy, if a few seconds up and down per day flatten out over some days of real wearing them. If highest accuracy is the thing I'm looking for, I personally refer to the GPS ajusted Astrons or Grand Seikos hand selected crystals and temperature compensating Quartz calibers. But at the end: Thank you very much for this interesting comparison!

Thanks for all the effort you put into this, really interesting. Just to note, I think the lift angle should have been set to 53 degrees (not 52) on your timegrapher for the 6r35s.

About time someone showed how hit and miss these seiko calibres can be!No eta calibre that I have ever owned is as off as these seiko calibres he is showing.eta 2824 7750 7001 2893 all make these seiko calibres seem weak for consistency.

Really enjoyed this, what a good idea!!! Would be great to measure a Patek, and your two Zenith chronos with chrono running and stopped!!

The Seiko accuracy does suck abit, I love Seikos for the designs I have 3 8l35 and all are about +15, 8l55 I have is about +1 and all the lower 6r and 4r movements i have are also between about 10-15 seconds slow or fast.

Sad to hear you sold your AT.

The best time keeping mechanical can’t be measured on a tinegrapher (spring drive).

Yeah hard pass. If the time varies greatly and cost 1k it’s not worth it. If I want a toy watch, I can buy some for less than 50$ I’ve bought 2 sumos and left very disappointed. I bought 800$ certina ds action diver and it’s nearly accurate to cosc out of the box

Such a good video. The 6r just doesn’t live up, however it could be serviced into a good momentum

The 6R is the movement found in the presage line most often. The 6L is a higher beat at 28000 where the 6R is 21600

My 6r35 runs poorly (-20 dial up, -30 crown up) on a timegrapher but manages to get -3/+5 due to speedup as the power reserve winds down overnight.

Rolex, has those movements down to a science, and you can see it in their in-house Tudor movements as well.

Wow great video! Thank you for this comparison. My BB58 is really a keeper. Its excellent on my timegrapher as well. Worthy of owning and passing down. My Seiko SLA021J1 was sent to Seiko USA for servicing. My beat error was at 2.0 and bad timekeeping. Will be there for a long while due to parts from Japan being shipped over.

I really get bothered when someone says that their Seiko runs within COSC or something comparable. There’s specific criteria to meet COSC standards beyond the watch running within -4 to +6 seconds. Most Seikos have a positional variance (positional delta) well beyond COSC certification. I’ve had decent movements (under 20 second delta) and horrible movements (50+ second delta). Mind you, I enjoy my Seikos as well, but I don’t have delusions of grandeur. Lol.

Conclusion: don't watch John P and enjoy your seiko's despite their performance.

Thank you. I know understand why some days my Turtle keeps good time and others is way off. Where my Tudor Ranger with its ETA 2824 keeps great time, period.

Interesting video ! As an 8L35 based watch owner, I have a few “Marinemaster 300” variants, the differences between them out of the box are noticeable but not dramatic to be honest. And, they can be regulated to run very precise. My SLA021 was serviced and regulated by Seiko NL recently and runs incredibly precise ever since. Would I like Seiko to regulate them from the factory ? Yes ! However, this will never be done due to the Japanese cultural barrier. A normal Seiko will never be regulated because there is Grand Seiko and they won’t dare to insult those customers in offering “the same thing” for less money, it’s simple Japanese ethics.

Very informative video. Thank you.

Ty so much for such a great comparison 🙏🏻❗️ I need to hunt that BB black ceramic

The timgrapher readings are for reference only. What matters is on wrists accuracy. The DUW3001 I have is adjusted in 6 positions had variation of 5s and average of -3s/d. On wrist it is -1s/d consistently. I kinda wish they would have done just 5 positions for tighter variation. I regulated ST2130 to +1s/d. That Seiko 8L35 movement has solid amplitude in those positions. Seiko makes some nice high end movements. I would love to know why yhe 6R have such large positional variations. I still got mine regulated to +1-3s/d consistently but that variation doesn't give me the quality vibes. My NH34-36 are tighter. I am kinda surprised in the 70deg amplitude drop on that BB. Seems a bit high. It may get better but given the amount of testing and running the movement experiences before sale there is not any break-in left. Otherwise, all those fancy certs mean nothing if the movement is t already at steady state.

informative video. I have to say I have a coupe of Seiko's one with the 6R35 movement which for me runs 2.1 seconds fast per day. I'm happy with that range. Will definitely check out more Swiss made in the future.

People always bemoan about accuracy on Seiko. But the two higher grade movements were consistently more accurate. The 8L35 and 6L35. I own cosc Swiss movements and Japanese movements as well as an Omega co-axial. The co-axial is crazy accurate and consistent. But my second preference is the Japanese movements. Why? Are they the most accurate? No but they ARE more reliable. I have 6 Japanese autos and not a single fault. I've had 6 sellitas and 2 ETAs, both ETAs sent back for a fault in 2 years and 4 out of 6 sellitas were sent back too. That is HORRENDOUS especially given the price tag. Reliability and maintenance over accuracy any day.

I think it's been commented on but the lift angle for the seikos is 53! Not 52, it'll help bring those number more in spec! :p awesome video tho! Thanks

Well I find this 2 years after your recorded it but thanks a lot - I’m all in on accuracy (limite psychopathe) and I’m a bit shocked as well by Seiko. My OG SKX009 never serviced in 20 years (that’s how it should be with 7S26) is actually as accurate as my 6R35 Willard (limited edition ~1,300 usd). Grrr

Rather have one Tudor BB than 10-20 seikos

Another informative vid. My spb149 is also running around +15 a day and the case back is on so tight I can’t get it off to regulate it myself 😞👍

The 6L35/Soprod A10 is more like an ETA 2892 competitor in my opinion. Both are very thin and have better tech than a 2824.

Interesting but in fact the dial up (horizontal\flat) position is probably the rarest position for a watch. .... You will probably get cramp trying to sit at your desk with it so........

Second Seiko has the Seiko-fever: amplitude way too low. It will never be really accurate, no matter the regulation. Possibly overlubricated from factory. Nothing you can do except full service, which costs more than a new movement. Your new movement from Seiko might be ok or just as bad. This movement QC does not belong in a +1000 $ watch like this.

I have the spb143 and I get -3/+3 daily i guess i got lucky. I love that limited edition king seiko that’s a special watch that I had my eye on. I just recently purchased the seiko 62MAS sje093 limited edition with the 6L37. I will be taking delivery of it in a couple days I’m looking forward to see what I average with that watch.

my sbdc101 started life at +30s. After first regulation -15, after 2nd regulation +25 and now finally after the 3rd visit its running at -5s per day. Think I'll move on from seiko and go for the bb58

Hi just watched your video 7months after you uploaded it, looks as if you put alot of work into it, i believe moast affordable Seiko's should be regulated by the wearer my personal watch that i built myself from parts, was running -7 s/d so i regulated it over a few days it's very accurate and consistent now -1 s/d or just under, it's an NH35A a very good and robust movement totally on par with Swiss counterparts, Cheers.

My new SPB151 is all over the place on the timegrapher also, plus16 to minus 03. On the wrist it runs plus 05 per day, so not bad at all. I got lucky. My Turtles all run within COSC also but were one third the cost!

Accuracy can be an argument to when judging a brand but…i think Jean Claude Biver tell in interviews that a watch is not for reading time…if you need to read time you have smartphone and a smartphone is quite accurate…nevertheless it’s a fact that Seiko is charging a lot for their watches compared to the others brand but what is the maintenance cost compared to a METAS certified watch ?

Even my Tudor 2824 is avg +2 so they seem to do a great job

Somebody should also compare the 9000 series movements from Citizen/miyota

Wow, time to get some snacks and enjoy!

Something isn’t right with that Willard. No way the amplitude should be that low.

i pissed off adjusting my 6r35 in sapphire sumo. 3 times in service but for free. now +6 dayly.

I could have said, from experience, how this should have ended up, with the Tudor as the winner. My Pelagos runs at -1 per day. I value accuracy above all else.

Longines for me, thx

Hey man! Do you happen to know the proper lift angle of the 6L35?

The wobble and difficult winding could be the reversing wheel acting up. I have had the issue with two sellita 2020 movements.

Great Video. Thanks

agree about power reserve, sad marketing trend nowadays

@Uptick I think your experiment showed the Seikos were all within the accuracy range that they should have been - correct?

You just don’t put a watch on the timegrapher you need to set the lift angle, The 6R35 lift angle is 53….all those tests for 6R35 equipped watches are invalid, The longines ETA is probably 51 degrees…the only thing the timegrapher is able to autodetect is the beat rate

Very cool video

The wobble on the Longines is the automatic winding rotor turning along while you wind it. Not good. Call your watchmaker.

Rolex's Achilles heel is their stupid cyclops lens and their refusal to make a larger date wheel, which is the cause of using the stupid 1950s technology (the lens) on a watch that is 70 years newer. The German and Japanese watchmakers know how to make a readable date wheel. See Grand Seiko or Glasshutte Orignal. Seiko's Achilleas heel is their use of Hardlex instead of sapphire on their lower end models and their lack of accuracy and regulation of all of their mechanical watches.

Curious to see a 6R15D in the mix! I had my 6R35 regulated and it runs amazing, around +1 or 2 a day. But that worries me all the variance your test showed

Yes, the Seikos' angle is wrong. However my 6R35 runs +2"/day (always worn/body temperature) after I've set it for my everyday use. I would avoid the Powermatics because of it's too difficult to set by myself

Dear person who thumbed down. Why?

Everything that comes out of that John Ps mouth is just for click bait, the guy is not the sharpest tool in the box

Did you wind them up before you put them on the timegrapher?

The lower grade seiko movements are long lived but not very consistently accurate.

nice

At around £1500,00 Maurice Lacroix Aikon is highly overpriced for what it delivers

Recently purchased my Tudor BB58 (second owner) and never take it off unless showering/exercising. I have noticed it will keep accurate time for 2 days straight, then it will lose 10 to 13 seconds on the 3rd day always overnight and on my wrist. Is this something you think I should have Tudor look at? Thanks for the video and any feedback you are able to provide!

The 6r35 is just a shit movement. I purchased several Seikos with that movement right around the time that the movement debuted, and all of them were wildly innacurate.

Hajime!!!.

The 6r35 will get better as they improve it. They’re only on the A version. They made the 6r15 up to version D, I believe. So maybe the 6r15D is more accurate that the 6r35A. Also, did you fully wind the watches because that has a big affect of how the movements perform. Lastly, I found on Caliber Corner that the 6r35 has a lift angle of 53 degrees. So does the 8l35. I’m guessing the 6l35 does too but I couldn’t find any info on that. From what I understand, the lift angle affects the amplitude.

Dude super interesting video. Gave me new views on Seiko. Less appreciation now. I bet Russian Vostoks for 1/10th the price give more acuracy. I thought Sheikos would have super a curate movements compared with the swiss but this is insane 😵⁉️

Feel pretty impressed by my Citizen Promaster that reliability does +6-8 sec/day with a miyota movement under 200 euros with bezel and everything else being perfect and blue lume that does last a little longer but shine a little less bright than my prospex diver. Guess Ill stay away from seiko mech. movements now that I know. Way too innacurate for me, especially when my sub 200 usd grey market tissot powermatic 80 does +1s/day average with a couple secounds up and down