Kiss would not have survived the 80's without Vinnie Vincent and Bruce Kulick.

Kiss, mainly Gene and Paul, have always thought “you get the keys to the kingdom” to the other members. They still to this day haven’t gotten over their childhood bullying for being different, so they just manifested that crap themselves.

Gene & Paul are NOTORIOUS for being ALL about the money.I'm not surprised they had an attitude of "You should be thankful we don't CHARGE YOU for the opportunity to play with us"

Life Long KISS fan. I believe this story. Love KISS. I know Vinnie was difficult to work with. Shame they couldn't figure this one out. But in the end. Vinnie did what we all would have done. You gotta be able to pay your bills.

I believe that Vinnie is in the right in this case. They were paying him crumbs even though he was 25% of Kiss and wrote most of the songs on Creatures and Lick It Up, not to mention he practically saved KISS !!! He was not a session musician, he was part of KISS !

KISS could've paid Vince $2- 3,000 a week easily and he'd still be way underpaid, but at least it would've given Vince something to sustain he and his family on.

He was right about one thing, they DIDN'T want him in the band.

Vinnie has had a rough life. I hope he finds peace.

Call me crazy but I believe every word of this and it's a shame too I love KISS with VV and Lick it up is top 3 of the KISS catalog for me

What Vinnie was asking for was MORE than fair...How Gene and Paul could treat anybody this way makes me sick

$500 a week - is a ridiculous offer taking into perspective how much he brought back to the band. If that is true then I understand his grief with the band.

That Vinnie Vincent Invasion release kicked ass, too...

Whatever problems or tension Vinnie Vincent has had with his relationships in bands past & present---whatever kind of "dooshbag" he is/isn't/or might be...according to who you ask...I don't think anyone can deny the fact that the dude knows how to write hit rock n roll songs. The VV era with Kiss was always pretty much my favorite era, musically, even tho personally, I don't think anyone was ever stronger or a better guitarist w/KISS than Bruce Kulick. He just fit in with those guys so well...but that's another story. I also own and still listen to both of the VV Invasion albums, and they are great and still hold up well 30 years on. In fact, the 2nd & final Vinnie Vincent Invasion album when Mark Slaughter took over lead vocals was the first compact disc I ever bought, around 1987-88. Luckily I was a radio DJ at the time and had access to a LOUD & BITCHIN Audio set up at the station that rattled windows for blocks. but i digress. Bottom line: if you wrote it, you should own it. Vinnie should be sharing royalties with Gene & Paul on his contributions, not have been degraded down to an hourly stock-boy position. I love Gene & Paul, but fair is fair. Yes, it's show BUSINESS, but it's Rock and Roll, Man! If the music doesn't take priority, then why should anyone listen?

This is the best channel

I may not believe everything Vinne says, but I do believe him when he says Gene and Paul screwed him over financially. They do that with everybody.

The last thing you said and it broke his heart it really did break his heart he never got over it he was sad throughout Vinnie Vincent invasion he was covering it up he was a broken hearted man after kiss never recovered

This same story has been told many times before. Van Halen made Michael Anthony relinquish his rights to royalties and sign a contract to become a paid employee. Jake E. Lee claims he wrote the Bark at the Moon album but Sharon Osbourne told him to sign over all of his rights and become a paid employee or he would be fired and they would hire someone else to re-play all of his parts. And of course Dio shafted Vivian Campbell even worse than Kiss shafted Vincent. I could go on all day with other examples. I guess the moral of the story is to never join a famous band but I guess if these guys didn't they would run the risk of never being heard of at all.

Kiss - McDonald's of rock n roll.

I love the Vinnie era KISS, and I wish it could have worked out .. But $500 in 1983/84 is the equivalent of $1500+ nowadays, and had he stayed grounded and professional, with KISS' success into the 80s, Vinnie could have probably added greatly to his earnings in endorsements, plus, songwriting and publishing ( not sure why he said he wasn;t interested in royalties ) .... Vinnie is a unique figure in the history if music but he was his own worst enemy ..

Kiss was never a band about the music. They were an entertainment-based business.

I remember an interview with Gene around 1980-81 where Gene said that Eric Carr was "being paid in the high 6 figures". That would be over $600,000 per year folks! What they did to the very talented Vinnie Vincent was very stupid of them. He SAVED their asses!

The more I hear people talk about Vinnie… the more I get the feeling he and Dio were similar in that if they liked you they really liked you and if they didn’t then they pretty much despised you. Nice to hear a spot with him… from what I’ve read he’s been somewhat of a recluse since Vinnie Vincent invasion broke up.

Favorite kiss album easyly creatures of the night awsome drum sound

Wow, this makes perfect sense!

Paul, Gene, Ace, Peter, Vinnie... hell even Eric Carr... none of those guys have always been right in their dealings with each other and there's always two sides to every story, but when it comes to VV, you have to look at the bigger picture and listen to the way the vast majority of other people who have worked with him talk about him also. And that's without factoring in his dealings with fans and (more recently) promotors. Ripping people off, scheduling, cancelling, disappearing. You'd be a brave or foolish person to swallow everything Vinnie wants to tell you.

💓VINNIE ROCKS!💓

$550.00 a week in 1983 was good money. Doesn't mean that he shouldn't have been paid more but facts are facts.

Creatures and Lick it Up were the 2 of the best Kiss studio albums ever. There's "two sides of the coin" but I believe what he is saying. I seen Vinnie with Invasion and he is very talented.

I too,..believe every word. To think this was the origin..of my most favorite V.V. songs is a startling And illuminating tale about the business and the band Kiss. Who knows if I would have ever heard his material if they'd kept him in the band. In the end I'd bet his solo album did better saleswise than the next Kiss project did...? ? History-buffs please refute my theory

He got the opportunity of a lifetime. The $ would have come w/time. It wasn’t like KISS was in their heyday in the early 80’s.

One my times great. Wow what a player

Vinnie is known as a difficult personality to say the least. Here though, and especially when it comes to $ It makes sense.. Especially where the band was..still, he wrote a lot of material for Lick It Up, that's a fact..always a debate the Vinnie "saved" Kiss...don't know about all that, BUT you cannot deny that his participation was an asset.. except his personality.. All things considered the band was lucky to have him even in that capacity. It really could have been the end.

I am a lifelong KISS fan. I reckon Vinnie was easily the most talented songwriter they had on lead guitar. I’ve read all the biographies etc, and I believe this story Vinnie has provided on why he was dropped. Gene & Paul wouldn’t even let him have his publishing. Having said that, there are plenty who felt he was very difficult to work with. Still, Lick it up is an awesome album. They restrained his playing, whereas VVI he overplays at every opportunity.

I actually believe BOTH sides: KISS's side and Vinnie's side. I do think that Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons can be cheap and thankless jerks to work for - as Ace Frehley and Peter Criss have stated MANY times. I also think that Vinne Vincent could be a weird, selfish Head-Case - like not only Gene and Paul point out, but so does Carmine Appice. And when a fellow paison labels you as trouble, you really are trouble.

I was there at the expo and met vinnie!

I saw this tour at Maple leaf Garden Toronto 🤘

I believe everything Vinnie said. Those comments was the truth and anyone with common sense knows that there is two sides to every story. History, real meaning is His-Story. Written by the winners, and Paul Stanley and Gene took full advantage of Ace, Peter Chris. And this i believe is now fact. I have listened to all of Ace's comments after i listened to Paul Stanley's audio, the entire book. It was a great book. But smart people like me will listen to what the other band members had to stay. In the case of Vinnie, Vinnie got screwed and had to take action to become a rock star, and bad people created the conditions, i believe to force him to take drastic measures. Had he not acted, he would have literally ended up on the streets. His album in unlike anything i have ever heard. Its literally at another level. Paul and Gene at literally in for themselves and any brainless idiot can figure this out.

Here is what is messed up. KISS was getting around $50K-$100k per show for artist fees. Depending on the size of the venue. A venue that seats around 5000 people would be a $50K artist fees. This $50 too $100K is to cover trucking, tour buses, drivers, fuel, the actual KISS road crew, tour manager and any other fees it takes to get the band from city to city. I would say the actual band was clearing $20K per show times 5 show a week. That is $100K net. And they could only pay VV $550 a week.

Look at it this way - $550 in the mid 80s is about $1500 today. He was making $6000 a month in today's money after taxes. The average cost of rent in the mid 80s was about $400 a month, so he would have $1800 a month left over for utilities, food, etc. for his family. I don't know whether he had to pay his way while touring and recording, or if that was taken out of a general band budget. Making $6000 a month (or $72,000 a year) in 2023 would be a pretty decent and livable income, depending on your location. It's not rockstar money, but it's livable. Considering I only made about $2200 CAD ($1600 USD) per month at my $17 an hour full time job, $6000 a month would definitely get me out of my mom's house. It would have been nice of Gene and Paul to give the man royalties for his work, but this is Gene and Paul we're talking about.

Ya know there's always 2 sides to every story.. I've heard horror stories about Vinnie.. I've heard the same about Gene & Paul.. Who knows? I've got to say though..Lick it up is by far one of best Kiss albums if not the best.

I liked Kiss as a teen in the late 70s. But when they did the no makeup thing, they sucked. Seeing this video makes me glad the only money they ever got from me was Alive II, and possibly Alive I. I think i found the albums before those in yard sales when self respecting older teenagers threw their copies away after high school or at least college. But as I write this, I am shamed as I remember buying all 4 shitty solo albums, using money I should’ve wasted on drugs.

If you’re a professional musician: show up on time, keep up with the music physically, and are positive towards the band, you deserve a living wage. Whether you’re in a punk band or in an orchestra.

$500 a week is totally disrespectful. considering that Gene and Paul were making millions. shameful

I’ve been a KISS fan since the beginning, and I’ve got three things to say, and they’re simple. 1) Anyone who’s been around knows how Paul and Gene can be. 2) Anyone who’s been around knows how Vinnie can be. 3) There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. Period.

As shady as VV can be at times, I have to admit, it must've been aggravating as hell to play to packed arenas and write songs for gold and platinum-selling albums, only to take home pay that's equivalent to what a dishwasher in a restaurant makes. Your bosses are making out like bandits, and you're barely scraping by. No wonder he didn't sign that contract!

I believe every word of this.

Vinny could play. 💪🏻👍

Vinnie was/is a talented guy. I thought, a perfect replacement for Ace but more dynamic in that he was in the mold of shredders during that hair-band time period. I did get to see Kiss with him. In a crowd of about 3500 if you can imagine that. I think Kiss missed out on something good, possibly great. I've heard both sides. I'm sure this was just a low-ball offer to get him to leave.

Adjusting for inflation, that would mean he'd be making about $1200 a week now. Not bad, and the financial strain on the group was likely a factor, but not getting a raise after Lick It Up had it's success is cruel. This is if he was actually a band member, anyways. Gene and Paul, at least in retrospect, have made it clear they didn't like or want to keep Vinnie anyway. In that sense I can't blame them too harshly, as Vinnie clearly wasn't a good fit with his endlessly indulgent guitar wankery. A firing via unfair contract is a bit Machiavellian, though.

Not hard to believe at all. Gene and Paul are a couple of shady New Yorker businessmen and are notorious for being hustlers. They are cut from the same cloth as Sharon Osbourne in that regard. I’ve heard their side of the story about how he’d play those long solos etc and fuck things up for them. Him feeling cheated might’ve played a role in that.

550 a week is about 13.75 an hour and in 1982 minimum wage was 2.50 an hour. Median income was 23,430 annually and he was making 28,600. So I terms of time frame, that was great money. In 2018 that sounded bad, but you can’t look a the past through the lenses of now.

$550/w =28k/y 1983 average salary - 24500k/y Vv was living ok but definitely not getting his fair share if there was money coming in. Maybe there was too much incompatibly but he should have gotten paid more if there were no pending problems.

Gene was the behind the scenes financial hammer of the band, merchandiser and etc profiteer. He's always looked out for him and Paul as they are the 2 original friends and remaining formula that is the essence of KISS. But 550 after taxes and no royalties definite ensures the financial empire of Gene and Paul to stay exactly where it was most coveted. But what father could expect another father to feed his children cat shit on a Ritz cracker while he feeds his own face with anything that he damn well wants to ???? A good man ?? Not saying he has to go halves on everything... not at all, but damnit, business is business and abuse by neglect is the topic of this conversation..... NOT BUSINESS. But be yee ever forewarned.... "live by the sword; die by the sword." Let the heads roll !!!

Eric Carr is so underrated

If its true that Vinnie never signed the contract legally making him a member of Kiss then No, he wasnt 25% of any band.. he was a hired contractor. period.

It breaks my heart when I hear stories about how heartless Paul and Gene seem to be. I guess there were reasons they wouldn't 'make it work' with Vinnie, but from Vinnie's point of view, it wasn't handled very well. I've read similar stories from Bruce Kulick. One day he's a member of KISS, the next he's out and Peter and Ace are coming back. But, according to Paul, he finally has the band, with Singer and Thayer, exactly how he envisioned it way back in the 70's. Probably because both members have other income streams, they're clean and sober, do whatever they're told, and Paul and Gene don't have to pay them much.

Without another guitar n drums KISS is dpne.....and to pay him that little is an insult.

Man! I believe Vinny over Paul any day! I had a feeling that was what was going on with him

I saw Kiss on the Lick it Up tour in Austin. Helix / Vandenberg opened.

That’s insane! I believe him.

Damn, if I made $550 a week, first thing I'd do is go to Family Dollar and buy the Bluetooth speaker I saw other day

Thanks for uploading this. As time marches on, Kiss are really coming off as being as underhanded as they claim Vinnie was. No doubt, Vinnie did some dishonest things in and out of Kiss, but really? The way they treated Eric Carr, Doc McGee (shadiest manager since the Colonel), li syncing and this Covid disaster. By now, you would think that they would have the people skills to treat people in their organization fairly. Who knows what will come out next. Paul and Gene probably pay people off to keep these type of stories off the radar. I have always enjoyed their music but their decisions are starting to get in the way.

I'm very appreciative about this interview that has been documented and dated. Thank you for uploading this information/interview. Now...... I was hospital for 4 months. I'm a musician so I asked everyone if they have any "music related" books to please bring them to me. Ace's No Regrets was first Paul Stanley's book was #2 Moneybags Malone was 3rd Reading 3 original members take on everything was epic! All 3 talk on Vinny Vincent in a derogatory way. Vinny tells us his side & now I see why Vinny left. Paul is more detailed on 84'-85 Vinny's time in Kiss. Paul talks bout' getting Vinny to sign the contract but, Vinny didn't. Now... In all 3 books you would think that Kiss would pay better than $500.00 a week. A employee wage not a member wage. I understand that Vinny was a strange guy but but he was not a criminal. Paul & Moneybags Malone gave Eric Carr a brand new car plus other $$ related items and genuinely liked Eric for many reasons being easy to work with is #1 thing welcoming him into the Kiss empire family..... Paul & "Hollywood" Gene tell stories about Vinny's lifestyle & longer solos live than what was recorded on album. Plus his solo spot live showing off more & more getting longer & longer live guitar solos spot that really irritated the band & some venues audiences did leave for bathroom or gettin' high or go buy Kiss merchandise. The happiest guy in Kiss when Vinny was hired/fired (or quit depends who tells) was Eric Carr by far really! Eric is no longer a new guy & Eric finally felt taller as he took photoshoots beside Vin. Eric was gettin' more & more confident plus he built up so much more self esteem that in which gave him soo much more songwriter talent with both 'Holywood' & 'Left Ear.

From Wikipedia: "Following his departure from Kiss in mid-1984, Vincent used his money that he made from his tenure in the band to take a long vacation and traveled the world for a full year visiting places like Tahiti, Philippines, Mozambique, India and Europe, including a visit to the small town Mora in Dalarna, Sweden." How did he pay for that if he was making so little? Something doesn't add up...

Well be did come back and wrote a bunch of songs for Kiss's heaviest album, Revenge. He wanted publishing for the songs he wrote and they refused.

What a shame Paul and Gene couldn't pay Vinnie Moore he was a hell of a guitar player and a good songwriter 2000 even $3,000 a week would have been great money for the year 1983 some people say Vinny saves kiss I don't think he's saved them but I think he did help them out because if it wouldn't have been him it would have been another guitar player but he definitely deserve more than what they were paying him and he deserves royalties

I like the narrator of this video. He sounds fucking cool.

HEY 🥰 TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!!!WOW SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT SONG!!!😂

I just can’t believe anything Vinnie says

Imagine if Boyz are Gonna Rock was on a kiss album. Woulda Ben huge

Those albums carried kiss through the 80s. Kiss was done by then, just a novelty band on a fan boys faded lunch box. Gene was trying to be an actor. Paul was lost. Vinnie saved them. Gene and Paul shorted their band mates to keep their layabout families living lavishly.

Bohoo Vinnie....

Keep in mind that $550 in 1983 would be about $1500 today. So Vinnie was taking home the equivalent of $78,000 a year at the time, which means his salary was the equivalent of well over $100,000 per year in today's money. Plus, Gene and Paul (or the KISS corporation) were paying for his travel, hotels, meals, equipment, etc while on the road or in the studio. KISS was also paying for the cost of producing the albums, promoting and marketing the band, and the huge overhead costs the band incurred from touring. All Vinnie had to do was show up on time, play well, and not act like a total asshole, and in return, he got to play lead guitar in one of the world's biggest rock groups, with all professional and touring expenses covered, plus the equivalent of a six-figure income in today's money. Oh, what a tragic life. The bottom life is that Vinnie had a golden opportunity and he blew it because he is his own worst enemy.

Sign the contract Vinnie, it had to be more that $550 a week.

Hm. Eric Carr signed that contract. So did St. John and Kulick and Singer and Thayer.

I saw KISS during the Creatures tour it was spectacular. I personally think Vinnie saved the band after KISS took a lot of shit for The Elder album. They treated Vinnie like garbage in my books.

Like I said about Ozzy and Sharon..the more I hear about Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons..the less i like them. $550 Per week..while they gross millions in merchandise alone...bullshit.

The Kiss sweat shop.

Do believe Vinny is NOT lying about the take home pay, $550. Why? A friend of mine played with a major group, went on a Major Tour. He was a hired hand. Played MSG and all he made was $300 for a 45 minute opening act. He told me, it looks good, playing Madison Square Garden, touring, etc. But when it comes down money, all you your to them is an employee!!! Also, unless your name is on the copyright, you're getting NOTHING!!! Gene and Paul CONTROL the band!!! END OF STORY!!!

I always thought Vinnie in KISS make up / costume was, by far, the most evil of everyone !

Kiss was paying him better than Ozzy was paying his guitar players (up to Zakk anyway).

Wow

Wow! $550 a week, what did they pay the crew? $35 a week. Proud to say they have never got one penny from me. I missed the make up phase and I liked lick it up and the early 80’s stuff. But not enough to own it. The more I hear the more I’m glad I didn’t go with music as a living. It’s not totally shocking, playing music as a kid I could tell people got weird(big headed, cut throat) real quick. Forgetting about the music almost immediately. Rock n Roll should be pure, from the places only a young mind can go.

As much as Vinnie has screwed people over, I totally believe all of this. Lick It Up was a good album too. They should have tried for another one

In all the other bands songwriters got royalties. Gene and Paul are the most greedy guys in rock and roll history

He should have tried to have them to sign a contract which said if you use my songs I get the royalties or I contribute nothing creatively.

The thing about Vinnie is he is such a hypocrite. Every interview with him he whines about how bad Kiss treated him. Then when he formed Invasion he treated Mark Slaughter and Dana Strum the same friggin way.

They should have just paid him..everyone knows vin write the whole lick it up album, and those paul and gene co-writing credits are bullshit, vin write all of it. Aka " cost of doing business" .

If HR had signed the contract he would have gotten more money. He was apparently afraid to lose his rights. That's why he lost more than ten lawsuits against KISS.

Yeah . Gene and Paul = a common denominator.

He got $500 a week, exposure to the industry and a potential future fan base. An established band will rarely, if ever cut in a new member on publishing/royalties. It's incumbent on the hired gun to use that exposure and fan base to hustle his/her own band, like Zakk Wylde, Richard Patrick( Filter) and many more.

I get the frustration for sure. BUT $550 in the early 80’s is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,600 today. Not great by any means; but not the worst salary for the time. Factory manager grade maybe?

for my - is gene simmons - talking - you know - xerox - laser copie - in comming 11 milliard us dollar 2019 - love you so much

550 bucks a week? well that was still 500 more than the original kiss guys had to live on for the first five years of KISS.

As Ace said, there’s always 2 sides of the coin.

Although there have been many "conflicting stories" about how much he made and how he left.....Do we really care after all this time?

I don’t blame Vinny at all! Ohowever it appears that from Gene and Paul’s perspective you have to pay your dues in other words here’s the carrot on a stick I wished Vinny would have stayed he could easily play rings around Paul and Bruce Ace and Tommy hands down! I wish Vinny the best…

You know I think I believe Him. But I also know that in 1982 I was making a lot less the $550 bucks a week. Doing much tougher work. And I survived no problem.

funny bruce never seemed to have a problem.

The more I hear these stories, the more I sense that G&P basically screwed everyone else out of $$$ and made everyone a salaried employee. Paul was living in an apt pre 96 reunion, and both he and Gene used Ace and Peter to benefit themselves financially.