metallaro anni 600

❤

People have said that because Vivaldi didn't write fugues as developed as those of Bach or Handel, and also because he adapted a fugue in an older strict style from another composer for his two settings of the Gloria. Vivaldi apparently did not feel comfortable in the older strict manner of polyphony. But Vivaldi certainly wrote great fugues. One of them is in his D minor concerto from opus 3. Bach admired it and copied it out for organ.

In terms of pure beauty and excitement, I personally believe it is one of the best fugues ever written!

Because it is not a fugue, it is a "basso ostinato" built over the theme of a "ciaccona". Vivaldi is a fluid counterpointist, surely he is not Bach...

@@stellario82 Yes, I am well aware it is a chaconne-esque bassline, but it is still fugal in nature, and Michael Talbot the musicologist and Vivaldi biographer/cataloger refers to it as a fugue as well. Italian "fugues" aren't always as distinct and pedagogical as German ones, see Corelli and his many fugues in his works as an example. Further, I will provide a quote from a review of Vivaldi's Rv. 594 by Michael Talbot: "The eight-bar fugue subject, which begins with the ‘germinal motive’, is identical in shape to the opening of the bass in Bach’s ‘Goldberg’ Variations. In fact, this was a popular chaconne bass of the time. The fugal treatment, which causes the ‘bass’ often to migrate to the upper voices, heightens the sense of monumentality and provides a thrilling climax." And another by musicologist Paul Everett: "Even though there exists two equally fine settings by Vivaldi of this well-worn psalm text, this one will always remain his ‘great’ Dixit Dominus. Great in every sense: in scale; in fullness of scoring (two cori are employed); in the virtuosity it demands; in complexity of counterpoint (best displayed in the final fugue on a chaconne bass); in grandeur of conception."

@@Mercer1012 I mostly agree. So let's call it a "fugal passage". A Fugue would entail a countersubject and in the Italian music could be something as complicated as Bach would have it in mind (see Legrenzi or Marcello). In general, attention to Talbot: quantity is not quality. He wrote a lot on Vivaldi, not all that he wrote stands a quality test though...

My favorite parts ngl

ME TOO.

"Italian"....

That passage is my favorite of all Vivaldi’s work. A bit fast here; a lot of the internal polyphony is obscured.

Not only the final movement, I think.

What concerto? I would like to hear it

The 'stoling' was common in Baroque period. It was not illegal.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l7GClMeGktSVYGg.html

😢...purtroppo, la Riproduzione o la Registrazione: pessima !!!

Agreed.

Don't forget Zelenka (in particular Z. 68 in D#), whose word-painting is superior to the slightly superfluous and over virtuosic setting of Handel, no offence.

Handel is boring and overrated.

​@@weiliu3623 Handel wrote his setting in 1707, at 22!, before the "stile concertante" of Vivaldi influenced every major composers in Europe: from 1710 Heinichen, from 1713 Bach. Try to find another baroque composer that at 22 can compose something like this (only Bach's actus tragicus comes close to being as impressive: early signs of two real genius in the making). Try to find something as dramatic, virtuosic and full of counterpoint.. Just for comparison and to put things into the right perspective: Zelenka first mass is from 1711, when he was 32, not 22

@@lucadeieso4815 Handel had some talent here and there but he is a master of none. You get bored to most of his music after one listen. I place him behind Vivaldi, Bach, D. Scarlatti, and even Telemann.