I appreciate the lack of oversell as well, they also educate their potential customers as well. I'd rather my customers be informed, than ignorant and easily taken. These guys are a great business

k ebonia Grissom forgot to wear his rubber gloves

like when you cant even smell them and they just blow on like 100w extra?

@@loganmilam4065 literally lol

John Doe A brand new high quality amp from China would give the same result. The super cheap class D and Brazilian amps are the ones that cause the most problems.

That's a result of the former and coil expanding from heat at different rates, the coil being less and the former being more.

if it suffers a broken section it is already dead, usually caused by low voltage supplied to the amp anyhow, they just try to overcompensate, just need an amp good enough to shut off when your volatge is shit.

@nate0 Obviously you wouldn't, just like you wouldn't want to continue to run an engine with a rod knock, but it happens. A typical scenario would be multiple subs and you might not hear one is failing right away, so it ends up nuking itself in the process. Since the voice coil has a fair bit of inductance, if the amp has no output filtering and no proper clamping on the output, it can generate quite a lot of back-EMF if the coil opens up, thus leading to flashover. Don't know how many were/are susceptible to this, but its a distinct possibility since filterless class-D is really for undemanding things like consumer electronics, not high power car audio amplifiers. These also have the undesirable characteristic of having substantial voltage on the speaker terminals even with the amp idling since each terminal will be toggling between the two respective power rails.

Your "fun fact" about Brazilian amplifiers is completely incorrect. Brazilian amps being "extremely high voltage" is an old myth/misconception. Brazilian (full bridge) amplifiers use much lower rail voltage than their half bridge counterparts.

​@@danielbujold7262 First off, a full-bridge amplifier doesn't use "much lower voltage", it just doesn't have a bipolar power supply. Half-bridge designs have to have + and - rails to be able to provide the full swing about the ground reference. With a full-bridge design, the bridge does the polarity flipping, so only one rail is needed. That said, the rail must provide sufficient voltage to actually drive the load, and as such will use similar voltages as the half-bridge amps, but just with only one rail, and half the number of rail caps. Just doing some basic math, 2 kW RMS into a 2Ω load requires 63V RMS, or 88V peak. In a full-bridge design, this would be 90V at the rail. In a half-bridge design, this would be ±90V.

@@danielbujold7262 And I think that may have come from a barevids video where he looked at the outputs of a full-bridge amp. That can cause some confusion since normally just one output will be swinging while the other sits at ground. Off the top of my head, the outputs on a full-bridge should be of opposite phase to add up to the full drive voltage once the drive signal has passed thru the filter networks.

Pick some up and judge for yourself, you can order any time at www.emfcaraudio.com

Flexin Five Hundred 2,500 rating on that sub. It didn't last long on that amp.

LOL depending on the coil 1200 or so RMS+

Or they buy a 1k amp and crank the gain all the way up trying to get 3k out of it then blame a sub for dying not knowing it was basically being fed dc and being used as a space heater

I remember some car audio company's, were not listing RMS ratings, and when asked about it, they would tell you that "if you have to ask, it's not the sub for you" but, that has been awhile. No voice coil is "rated for power" and that's a huge misconception, and anyone that tells you otherwise, is just trying to push a product. And on a side note, the difference in the color of the enamel, depends on how hot the coil was baked for curing, and or how the process was done.

I know of one brand we do a lot of recones for locally that have coil problems because they're just crap coils, or should be rated for less power. But, I also know people think a power rating means run double that on it and if it fails it's the products fault.

Does that company's name start with a "S" and end in qubed?

I can't confirm nor deny...but yes it was soundqubed. LOL!

Lol...yeah thats what I have heard. But don't get me wrong I have 2 HDC3 15's on 2k each with no issues yet....but they do get warm and I dont full tilt for long. But I have some ZV4 motors coming my way for me build that can handle some abuse and get windy.

Copper does handle heat better, but sometimes what it contributes to design aspects can CAUSE more heat so it ends up being a wash.

The weight of the magnet means nothing. The coil diameter is determined by the motor, that isn't an option. There are benefits and drawbacks of various coil selections which are dependent on other factors of the motor and soft parts. Power handling you can only have starting points based on the coil diameter and length but you can't simply calculate anything because of considerations with the motor and suspension.

Yes, it does matter on a sub. You CAN hear it, and it also just dumps heat. Less coil movement would INCREASE heat at that coil, pole venting isn't doing much of anything, and pole air isn't where the bulk of the heat is. Excessive burst power (within reason) only damages the sub if it's designed and built poorly. A good design won't bottom out and dent the coil, and breaking glue joints is just poor assembly. None of those are things our subs experience. We intentionally put over 7x rated power on them for a burst without failure.

DSM Dallas You may be hearing light clipping from running it at 1 ohm. Typically if you're tapping the coil on the backplate you don't do that too many times before it's destroyed. Now, I think it's also impossible to do that on that sub so it might also be mechanical noise from the spiders or maybe lead slap on the cone.

I've had a couple subs back in the days where spider just wasn't glued properly and the spider came loose. Luckily, in each case, all I had to do was reglue it and it fixed the problem.

On the things we typically deal with, aluminum.

Coils aren't painted at all.

It sounds like a light grinding. There is no scenario where you should have metal fragments in the box. If it's from the coil, it had a hole blown through it. Even then it shouldn't be very big pieces.

The speaker was frozen in place. I push it all the way down to look at the coil. As I was moving around I saw a piece of the coil that was definitely scratched about 2" exposing bare copper. There is also what looks like a coating of metal dust inside the magnet hole

They were not big pieces. They were silver in color and I know they weren't there when I put this sub in. 600 rms running and 800-900

Bigvell02 don’t you rock Brazilian now?

We don't wind coils, nobody does. It takes specialized equipment to do it, when we get coils made we have to make an entire run of them.

That sounds like something was in the gap. That was the rubbing sound, and the marks left from it. The former not being closed, at least what you were seeing, is normal.

The dust is smoke residue.

So what do you do when some immoral person sends in his burned coil for undeserved warranty work? Cheaters tend to get nasty when they get caught! I hope that fact doesn't deter you from doing what's right.

they do have a high power rail, a lot like the HCCA amps and others, but the cause is lack of supplied voltage to the amp i would think and possible poor filtering or boosts from the caps inside, it is not a steady voltage and is usually because people try to overpower with cheaper amps without extra batts better alts ect ect, and well cheap amps just are what they are, they are cheap for a reason.

No, you can not wind your own coil. I've never reconed one to know much about that coil used but JL's general design philosophy is 2 layer coils that aren't particularly long (except W7), wound on plastic formers.

Generally less weight. Electrically, aluminium is inferior. They require more engineering to get them on a decent efficiency. Luckily, most of that is already figured out and 'public domain' knowledge.

.....but clipping DOES damage coils, and leads. Obviously there is a problem if there is clipping, like the recording is bad, or the amp is overdriven, but neither of those things causes a problem for anything but the speaker. In the instance of using square waves in the recording, with enough output it will absolutely damage speakers. Remember the root cause is heat. 1 watt of square wave can't generate enough heat to kill the oil nor does it have the amplitude to kill a lead. Distortion from a guitar in a recording is the same way, but not nearly as aggressive. There are sharp peaks, not flat spots. The flat spots is what does the most damage.

@@EMFAudio Yeah but like you said yourself it's the heat. Clipping in and out of itself, as basically a less aggressive square wave is not something a driver by dentition cannot handle. The problem is that clipped sound (and square) generates more heat per given wat due to poor ventilation when the coil is moving less, EMF (ironic name :P) no longer provides additional resistance when the coil stops moving so your coil can get even more power too fast if the amp allows for it. If you RMS match your driver and amplifier you can certainly blow your woofer very easily when you notice clipping because for one, you are already at the limit of both your amp and driver. And now you are pushing the amp even more when you put it in clipping territory. So you are getting more stained power then the woofer can already handle and the additional heat build up of straight cut of sections. Got a car install with a subwoofer that can handle 1000 rms 2500 peak. It's supplied by a amp that can deliver 500 watts rms and 800 peak. Even when maxed out on the amp, with some minor clipping the woofer is as new. Clipping in and of itself is not bad. It's the additional heat it generates that can cause damage if the amp is powerful enough to provide enough power.

To my knowledge you can't bottom those out, so it would have just gotten hot and unraveled.

Yes, low voltage will absolutely cause clipping.

Clipped my subwoofers for 5 seconds because I had a unknown voltage drop at full tilt

Bottoming out is reaching a mechanical limit at the bottom stroke. Typically used to refer to smacking the back plate. That isn't from exceeding rated power.

"better" is relative. Both have their place in design.

for Bass speaker (Sub-woofer)

@@MrRevocutus Like I said, they both have their place in design. Generally speaking, once you get into larger coils, being pure copper can have big side effects that aren't desirable because of the mass of the coil.

The middle of the coil windings go in the middle of the top plate.

@@EMFAudio thank you!!

Copper is the best cost to performance wire. Gold would be better but outrageously expensive. Silver wire would be the absolute best, but again, outrageously expensive.

The waveform is very different. Even under a normal condition they can look different, but when clipped there are often HUGE differences.

@@EMFAudio pretty cool

KMDrush69 clipping generates heat. If the dust cap was cool you were clipping at low power or the dust cap will never got hot by design of what's happening under the dust cap that you can't see, like stacked and spaces caps or a plug.

Ok. That made some things clear. I think Ill add some details... subwoofer has pretty beefy motor, 3 inch coil and its rated for 1400w rms. it has vents side on basket and on motor side it has pretty big hole in center(you can see back of dustcap trough it and its the size of a thumb). I have Alphard audio amp rated at 2000w @1ohm. (bought it new from official dealer) Its very interesting that when I play without clipping the dustcap actually gets a bit warm and there is no smell, but as soon it sees even tiny bit of clip it starts to smell really fast and dustcap is cold. And big thanks for your reply! :)

KMDrush69 More holes or bigger holes doesn't mean better cooling. It might be cooler when clipping because you're driving it to more xmax that is helping it cool. When it's not moving much it's not cooling, which will make it hot.

EMF Audio I just cant stop revisiting this video. Its soo interesting :). Is it okay for copper coil to be shiny at top, but darker at bottom and nearly dark at the end. No signs of bubbling, no holes, no unraveling, no smell.

KMDrush69 That sounds like it's burnt from poor cooling. Is the motor not vented or vented very little but a lot of basket venting?

That depends on the coil, really. Coils on certain subs I've shown how bad they are that might be the point where the glue on the former is about to let go, or starting to let go. It might be too late, still play, but not how it should. In most cases you're safe, but there are exceptions depending on the coil design.

EMF Audio well in my most recent experience it was with an audiobahn 1805q on an audiobahn a2300hcq amplifier according to their specs they should be a perfect match but if I play it full tilt I begin to smell the coils with that awful smell subs give when they are blown.... I sure hope I did not burn or hurt the sub because it is quite rare now as old as they are and it does a respectable 143.6db on stock electrics in my 08 Lincoln mkx

It's possible you were clipping it, which would cause that smell even if using rated power.

EMF Audio very likely

Not every spider is the same stiffness so you can't go off of how many there are. 3 spiders could be as stiff as 6, but you are correct in that there is a point where you don't have enough motor force to overcome the suspension which in turn makes it so you have to apply a ton of power to make it move, to cool it. The motor and coil are factors in that together. It's a downward spiral in efficiency, from being too stiff to added heat, and repeat the cycle. There are instances where a less efficient sub can be louder because it's more efficient in the installation, which is why you'd use a bunch of spiders.

We haven't made the v1 in 4-5 years, the v2 we aren't producing right now but may again in the future.

I prefer Korean. They're stable and reliable, much cleaner too.

If I understand how you are describing it is probably a material problem.

thanks! i shared a photo in google photo for you photos.app.goo.gl/0cyB3dsNP4tgwlJu2

That looks like it was near it's power limits and found a weak spot in the wire.

thanks for the attention my friend!

Epoxy?

@@EMFAudio What kind of epoxy I have already tried several and nothing. I recently bought the hernon but still haven't used it. Please can you help me with that information, thank you ..

With as little as you've told me, my guess is the former may be bubbled.

Bass Junkie you may be clipping the sub. Realisticly that sub is probably 100-150 rms.

EMF Audio www.amazon.com/dp/B00I9TSXKI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_1FbXAbQ7R289D Your right company lied thing maxes around 80-100W well that explains why my stock sub made the same smell. Well now I know what a slightly burnt voice coil smells like.

Burnt smells are never good, regardless of what's happening.

That's normal that's break in period the subwoofer is new so it's breaking in and it's the first time the glue gets hot so you're going to smell the voice coil it's normal I'm 2 months late is the sub still playing good?

@@nickolasvaughn667 yes, subwoofer still plays good. Smell is gone to my knowledge. Haven't had a long road trip in a bit to play it that hard. Seems to be just fine. I did error on the side of caution and turn the power to my amp down a hair and I watch to make sure I'm not clipping.

@@scottstamm7022 yep as long as you're not clipping you will be good yeah when subs are breaking in they stink

If the signal for the amp was setup on the rear channels and it was faded forward, then you changed it so the fade was at 0 or more to the rear, you would have essentially changed it so the amp made more power, blowing the sub. If it was set to 0 and you just reduced the front volume fading to the rear it wouldn't change anything with that. But it is possible you turned the volume up past where they had it set for or they set it incorrectly.

I replied to your email.

All of that makes sense.

Copper wire doesn't necessarily make it more rugged. It will handle more current but it also weighs a lot more and generates more inductance, which means efficiency would suffer which in turn handles LESS power.

@@EMFAudio The weight is a fair enough point. But the cross-sectional area must be increased to provide the same current handling capabilities, so the weight savings wont be as dramatic, but still can save about 40% over copper, maybe 50% if you decide to push it. But it has one draw back in that its much more sensitive than copper to heat, so it will blow open easier under overload. It may be easier to work, which could aid in fabrication, and also allow the use of non-circular cross-sections for different voice-coil designs to allow for the cross-section needed while still staying in the same gap width. This would be almost a necessity due to the higher eddy current losses in aluminum. This combined with the dynamic resistance will dictate how much heat it dissipates. At normal audio frequencies the series resistance will pretty much dictate that (I^2*R losses), but for some class-D amps this can be very much higher if they are sending the actual switching waveform to the coil without filtering. I will backpedal a bit and say the real advantage would be the use of a non-circular cross-section (e.g. a ribbon as shown) as this would allow for more flexibility in the form-factor (and possibly a lower overall inductance) for a given number of turns in the solenoid coil. But for a circular cross-section, the eddy current losses (and heating) are higher. With that said, there would be advantages if its done properly. Regarding the inductance wont affect efficiency at all. What it will do is make the sub harder to drive since it will be more reactive, and thus lower power outputs are achievable with a given voltage.

The return policy is on the website so you can see it's entirety. How much power is your amp? You won't be doing 150 with a single 12 without spending a lot more money on a higher line sub and I suspect a good bit more power. I will say that 2 Lowballer 12's are doing 150's with under 2,000 watts in a Focus hatchback, in a musical box.

Warranty typically states manufacturer defects are covered, not because it's broken for any reason. If you clip the hell out of it, nobody is going to warranty that. If you're using it outside of specifications, like more than rated power or the enclosure is way too big or way too small, nobody is going to warranty that.

Both have their place in design. Our Lowballer and Banhammer line use copper coils, the YOLO and Ermagerd line use aluminum coils. There are benefits and drawbacks of both that can be used for advantages in design.

@@EMFAudio Thanks for the fast reply but could you give a little detail on the benefit and drawbacks? Sorry to ask so much. I just find it all very interesting in the design choices.

@@ganon420 That is literally an entire Tech Stuff Tuesday video I have planned.

Thats a good question might have to do with xmax and the motor