This has been bugging me all week. Oh, by the way, the last video's link is posted in the description, I misspoke during the video, but if you want that link, you know where I put it. Now if only we could get some clarification on what REALLY happened on the Zarimen Ten Zero instead of scraps of info to piece together, that would be grrrrrreeeaaaatttt.....

It's important also to note the Void's relationship with the concept of time, which is... fucky at best. The 'adult' Tenno yet to come with The Duviri Paradox, the Zariman, Lua's tears in time, and the Orokin and Tenno themselves; the Tenno and the Orokin do not age, do not die, because of their relationship with the Oro - the Oro being, last I checked, essentially information of a 'snapshot' of them within the Void - Kuva is also a thing, but it seems to be different. In any case, taking this concept of time snapshots, the Duviri Zariman, and the time tears on Lua, are also these. So in the end, is it not possible that the Zariman came back essentially unscathed specifically _because_ of the Void's questionable relationship with time? Perhaps things had broken, and had been sabotaged. Two other things of note: First being that I don't think that Wally was necessarily 'tricking' us following The Sacrifice, so much as illustrating the toll that we endured by calming Umbra, and perhaps warframes in general. Second, mostly unrelated to these other things, Limbo does not enter _the Void_ so much as he enters _the Rift_ -that being essentially the space _between_ Dust and Void. It's why enemies can still see him, removed from reality only just slightly as he is. Now, it's possible that he _could_ enter the Void, but it may not be without toll, as his... acquisition lore suggests.

Your theory reminds me of the Silent Hill plot "they look like monsters to you ?" which showed how other people perceived the strange things going on.

Man I love this game. Your videos are always so eye opening And they get me to think. Thank you so much

I was listening to this in the background while playing and at 9:33 I alt+tabbed paused and sat frozen for a good 5 seconds before returning to reality with chills running down my back and my gut twisting with what would best be described as a combination of terror and doubt. "what if the adults weren't the ones who went mad" sheesh thanks, i guess :D

Comic: The Adults got mad and killed the kids and the kids defended themselves Devari Paradox: *Reverse Uno*

So... we are basically playing childs turned into overly efficient soldier, by drivin them half crasy, murduring their parents and each over, controlled by the though of a being with blury desires and that being as shown us the way to get rid of the ones that where using the soldiers he created for the war we aren't fully aware of the motives ... Warframe : the game where you are a puppeter mass murduring machine that doesn't know you are yourself the puppet of a more gruesome MMB ... Yea, seem's correct to me... since i got those to responce : - what took you so long ? - I controled it ( MMM = Mas Murdering Being )

Thanks for the deep dives, makes me appreciate the game and work that went in to it even more.. Thanks for the uploads and stay safe.

Siege I love watching these

9:35 from this point when i heard your theory about what could have actually happened, is swear ,the hair on the back of my head and from my arms stood up 😖,because if you're right and that theory is true then the "Zariman-ten-zero Incident" takes on a whole new level of Horror 😨

Your honestly a very underrated youtuber you deserve more hype

The idea that the adults had never gone mad at all and that the Zariman is simultaneously outside of the void with the children returned and inside the void makes me think that this Duviri enemy type could be the product of the parents we left behind maybe??

omg... you are filling in so many holes about the story that I was confused about. I never cross examined it hard like that. I was just thinking they were rambling with colorful words about us. Like how Alan calls us "Betrayers" or how there the queen called us, monsters. Just wow...

Honestly by heart you are my favorite warframe youtuber

Excellent! Keep the lore speculation comming!

I only just watched the last video, what perfect timing!

God if it was all a hallucination that would make Rell’s story even sadder. He killed his mom while she was probably super confused and terrified. Pretty sure he killed his mom I can’t quite remember

I love your videos. You have become the resident Warframe Lore guy. Love this theory.

This channel is addicting, makes me think outside the box

considering cy dialog about the void and how reality invert and grows teeth and a color you never able to see is now visible the tenno and the adults were both seeing a distorted reality made by their conscience like the animation death of hope anarchy Haines where the apparitions are actually people minds being reflect on reality like you imagine something running on the window and the demon is running on the window

This is an amazing theory, as always. Keep up the great work!

Dear DsIEGE, after this video and the last I have to say I am very intrigued with this pursuit of the 'Shadow' that the man in the wall represents. This got me started thinking back to my old philosophy classes and I remembered something that might be of interest to you yet again. The Mind-Body Problem. I think it could be a surprisingly fruitful rabbit hole to investigate and one that might tie into other parts of the warframe universe beyond just the man in the wall, including how the Warframe itself was able to move on its own a few times. A good place to start might be the interview with John Searle on Closer to the Truth on youtube.

Man you are great at this. Like really great.

Me when I first saw the Man in the wall, (confused screaming) Me when he shows up now, "FUCK OFF WALL BOY!"

Again another great video Im so glad I wasn't the only who was thinking about these things, that if the Tenno were tricked by the Man in the Wall, and could quite possibly be tricking us again, I always asked myself why was Rell trying to hold back the Void for so long?

Man that twist would be pretty great. Elaborating on a pretty traumatic event for our character would be amazing for developing an actual persona for them. I am hopeful that DE might be able to bring some kind of pay-off after all this waiting around, but it might be lackluster in the end. Either way, I absolutely love these lore-discussion type videos amidst the negativity at the moment and I can't wait for the next one!

I didnt even get a notification for this. I just felt it in my bones hahah

God I always love listening to your voice it's so soothing

i think we found the new stallord kind of lore content with this guy here

As soon as you said this in 4:10 I suddenly remembered a movie where evryone was infected into some bizzare monster.But those who were kind and good from heart and soul got powers

Oh, there were fires on the lower decks... I made sure. *Really* enjoying this particular line of inquiry. Made me reconsider a lot of choices. I had simply taken the Tenno alignment as Sun = passive, Moon = active, and left it at that.

Great continuation of your lore videos, I really enjoy them. Just a shame the game its self is not living up to the interest and enjoyment of the lore.

I'm new here been watching your videos for a week really like them keep us the content man love it

Here's a cool idea, since the void is outside the normal (our normal) plane of reality that everything in it can be wash down to the most simple yet crazy things at the same time. Like tree roots that grow in everywhere they need but what if the void is a gate of every reality. Same yet different but almost folding forever on itself. Now makes odd sense, the world we come from isn't the one we (us tenno) come from, more importantly if I am right then what did we leave behind?....who was left behind? Man I love watching theses videos! Keep it up and maybe we'll uncover the real truth soon.

Sorry I'm late for this video but damn do I love these

Amazing, I would’ve never thought of it that way

We stan your videos 👏👏

Cool vid!

Man, another great vid. I love the incredibly disturbing implications of this theory. I've always loved unreliable narrators and the subversions they can set up.

Congrats on the 10k subs, my dude :D

Another thing I've been wondering about the 10.0, in the Ember codex it mentioned that when the ship was sent out, everyone onboard was an adult but only children came back. the thing that comes to mind is the wibbly wobbly timey wimey effects of the void and ... well ... you know what adults do when they're bored, it should be possible that the tenno were born in the void and that's why they have that special connection to it. And now that you've mentioned that the events, as we know them, could have taken place in their minds, What if the tenno *are* the adults, just changed by the void and all the visions of horror and destruction is a representation of their struggle of killing the old self(bought metaphorically and literally) in order to be reborn with the void?

This stuff really makes you think hard. It's amazing how much we can pick up from small details and thoughts and together, put them into potential ideas. I myself think that the idea of the children gaining the void powers, their minds cracked and fought the parents is a good theory, however, I think that the children may have (somehow) trapped the parents in the void instead of outright killing them, since they're "wedged" in between reality and the void. It would kind of explain why they never found anything in the reports but children and a perfect ship.

There are hints on the wiki that there was no children in the zariman at the begining of the mission and that the children were on-board only when it returned from the void. Since we saw the duviri paradox trailer, there is a new question to ask. Why can we see it in the void while we know that it reemerged from the void. "It was completely intact, full environmental, as if it had never left" - - - but it disappeared for many years. "She (Kaleen) initially concluded that its disappearance was due to mechanical failure and closed the case after notifying the families of the crew who had been aboard" - - - it means that the families where not on the ship. "During her personal inspections of the ship she found no trace of the original crew but came across children on board the ship"--- she was looking for the crew but did not expect to find children. "In the Orokin's effort to expand their empire, they attempted an experiment Void-Jump with a military ship, the Zariman Ten Zero" - - - families and children on a military ship? But still, we can see a wreckage in the void with adults characters. And we have a clean zariman with children reemerging from the void. To me, it means that the tennos are the adults !? The void (Rell, who is presented as a child) sent back an image of the zariman and the crew but from the past, keeping the real adults prisoners inside the void, inside another dimension. And we might know why only when we will finally know who Rell realy is. And it still can works with the idea that all that slaughter in the zariman was just images put inside the tenno's minds. Some kind of memories for their empty spirits and it can explain why they are so confused about the zariman incident. What do you think about this?

I hope to see you maybe touch on the eye or the voind in the lotus helmet as well as the queens wben they invade your mind

That was exactly what I always wondered, were the parents the mad ones or the children were? I remember there was a voice line during the War within, when the tenno so a vision of the past and he said "they tore her apart", I always wanted to know exactly who tore who apart? the parents tore a kid apart or maybe it's the other way around.

This video is theory worthy, the void kids are a true mystery like where did they get their powers and why were the adults going crazy.

the whole theory is based on premise, that everything DE creates is in perfect story continuity ... that mainline having as much attention as codex entries for warframes almost noone reads ... which is the reason they stopped using them and instead tell those stories in quests ... embers Codex entry came way WAY before the Second Dream and War Within, ... the Occams razor aplies - "when presented with competing hypotheses that make the same predictions, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions" ... one assumption of "DE made a mistake and put contradicting background information in the one Codex entry" vs your "theory" full of "what ifs"

I'd say it would lineup with the narrative of the destructive and chaotic nature of some tenno ala the slaughter of the seven.

Goddamn interesting theory i love it!

What if the Old war Had something to do with Reil. Like chains of Harrow. How one of the NPC's are saying that "He isn't Reil." If you think about it, what if Hunhow is trying to take control of the operator (The player) like how he took control over Cephalon Suda (Octavia's Anthem). For some reason, I'm thinking that the Man In The Wall could be Hunhow 🤷🏻‍♂️. I'm just thinking this through.

What if the Zariman 10-0 incident wasn't an accident at all? When Natah and Erra managed to imprison Ballas, Natah asked if it was his kind that created these "Devils/Tenno". Ballas replied slowly with, "Yes". What if the Orokin purposely made the Tenno to fight off the Sentients? They just didn't know what the Void would do to the adults on board. Idk, just an idea I wanted to let out.

Am I the only person playing at least a year and never seeing a random man in the wall moment?

I believe that what you say could be right. I mean, this is further supported by the war within quest. It literally shows us a hidden building that looked nothing like it did when we actually went there at the end.

1st one, i love these vids

Now I’m wondering with the whole visions where in our heads caused by the void and manifested as walle and how about the chimera prologue and how walle knew where ballas was and how ballas knew where coming. ........🤯 so much to think about..

You got my sub

I really like this theory and it would probably make the game a lot more interesting if done correctly, say resulting with us choosing to get revenge on the man in the wall or maybe even joining him

I would cry so much

The collective unconsciousness, WOW now that is a term that takes me WAY back to 2000, U-Do from Xenosaga lol

I have had this on my mind for a long time. How come the sentience were unable to reproduce after traveling through the void? What if they were reverted to young sentience.

man its cuz of you ı believe in philosophy *sorry if wrong spelled not native* ı love your damn videos.

So I've been diving into the lore of Warframe for quite a while now. Recently, I'm shifting from universal lore to state or the game and stuff similar and after seeing so many posts and videos concerning The Man In The Wall and Rell and The New War I find myself thinking "Maybe TMITW isn't our enemy." I mean think about it, he's referred to as a Void Demon, a name given to them by the Orokin, who treated the Void as a space and a resource, instead of the thing it is (let's not forget the void is a living thing). As for the events with Rell it's my belief that TMITW was trying to somehow offer assistance but Rell wasn't able to mentally reconcile with whatever it is he did. Especially since Railjack came out and hearing some new voice lines, namely "Something's out there kiddo... watching us." I don't know if it's just me but I think TMITW is expressing concern and worry for the operator, saying something that even he doesn't know is there. I also think Cephalon Cy's ambiguous dialogues when a player attempts to interact with the void drive isn't directed at TMITW, but what TMITW references; it stands to reason that if TMITW doesn't know what's watching us, but is aware of its presence, Cy would also be aware. This is why he says " crew, a color you have never seen. Imagine it. That is where you are." I believe this is also not necessarily directed at the crew. Yes, Cy obviously says crew in the beginning, but maybe this is just Cy bringing our attention to the issue here. The color we cannot describe might be where this thing is watching us from. I'd love to get someone else's opinion on this cause I cant be the only one thinking about this.

My brain literally hurts from thinking about this. It is a very good theory though. And I hope we get some answers here with the new war and duviri paradox. Or even the Deadlock Protocol. Maybe the "void purgatory" is the same as where our older tenno is trapped in the duviri paradox. And the corpus founder. I have a feeling that they were an orokin, so if they are revived then it may provide some answers.

after looking at the new cutscene maybe ballas copied his consciousness and put it into a newly built erra or just made an erra that will do what he wants

Wasn't there a line in the second dream where the tenno is talking about what happened on the zariman and they mention their father saying "there's something out there watching us, kiddo"? I've thought of that line every time I've heard the man in the wall call my tenno "kiddo" since the war within.

9:35 Me: "Dont say it... don't say it...." "What if the parents never went mad?" Me: "Urghhh NOOOO That same thought has been eating me up inside! Since the lie in the sacrifice quest!" Awesome theory! It makes sense actually, but damn now I want duviri paradox, SO DAMN BAD! lol Keep up the good work!~

Perception is a powerful thing.

What does Isaah's death has to do with the void? Do I miss a good chunk of lore?

Question, whyd the void make the adults on the zariman mad but not Baro, he travels often to the void is he somehow immune, the corrupted in orokin towers in the void, they're not mad just controlled by orokin devices attached to their heads, did the void just select the adults or children to essentially F*ck with their minds?

Hopefully DE keeps it consistent and make it good

First of all, please read CaptainRasmot comment. It was intended as a reply but i got a bit carried away. I think that the ship was indeed sabotaged by the man in the wall to catch the tenno, or maybe someone had a different hidden agenda and getting stuck in the void was the actual mission of the ship, as an experiment to see what happens. I do think that the ship was stuck between alternate realities that both happened at the same time and both were the real one (PARADOX) and the ship was both fine and wrecked at the same time. I think that the ship was pulled out of the void, but not completely. It was out and at the same time it was still stuck in the void and the children just managed to travel between the void reality and the real world when the ship returned, the same way Limbo just crossed from the normal world to the void. And this might be the start of the Duviri Paradox. I have read somewhere an idea that said something along these line: while in the void, the adults might have not been in control of their bodies, they were just the shadows, which became corrupted by the void energy and reverted to primal instincts, reacting to a threatening environment (fires, environmental controls going crazy, food shortages and fighting over food and so on) and seeing everything as a threat (both other adults and children). There might have been a dual state to this one where their and consciousness bodies was on the normal reality and one where their bodies and shadow was on the alternate reality. I have one more idea to spin in support of the dual state of the Zarriman. Maybe the bad reality in where the tenno got their powers and the ship got wrecked was more like a dream. I mean it was a dream state. Not an imagination. It was real. Just as real as the normal world, with just as real consequences as the normal world. A dream state just as the one where Margulis thought the children to control their powers. Their powers manifested in a dream and they learned to control them in a dream. Maybe the word "dream" is the wrong one to describe this and you could call in "an alternate reality" created in the void/by the void/with the powers of the void (I do now want to imply that the tenno were the one to cause this duality on the Zariman, but I think of it merely how the thing are with the void, something that appeared on its own, and something that the children leaned to create or go to in their dream - maybe "go to" is the right therm here). This might just be what the somatic link is: a device that allows tenno to go in that dream state which allows the to control their warframe wherever that might be(the thenno firstly were on the reservoir on Lua, hidden in the void, and were able to control their warframe which was on the normal world), and also allows tenno to emerge from their warframe to fight side by side and just return to the warframe when they are killed, because their real body is on the orbiter (right now). That world might be what allows us to experience past events (I think the Chimera Prologue is where we see Erra being killed - also I am not implying that we travel in time here, as I do believe that what we see in that dream world is just a reconstruction by the man in the wall ) and travel to distance places (when we see Natah and Erra beginning the attack on earth before Scarlet Spear). Also this world accessed through dreams is controlled or influenced by the man in the wall, and what allows him to take control of tenno (when tenno killed erra). Also maybe the tenno that we see in the Duviri Paradox got trapped in this world and did not find his way out and eventually managed to get to the place where Zariman Ten Zero was still located (the one in the alternate reality) or if some dont want to accept that that one is the Ten Zero, maybe one of the others ships which were sent as a test to see what will happen to the people when they are exposed to void power as research to find ways to get to another system. There is a line in Ember codex entry which might suport this, where Kallen says "Nothing ever returns from the fold, so I closed the case." suggesting that this was not the first ship that was lost. This line bugged me. It suggests that this was not the first ship lost in the void, but merely the first one to return, and the reason for that it might be the tenno who developed powers. After all this might have been why the Zariman was the only ship to return. (Please remember that Lua was also hidden in the void and brought back at will, maybe so did the Zariman). Got deviated a bit there. What I am trying to say, the existence of that place where we see the tenno in Duviri Paradox is the place supports the existence of the "dream world" and if that is the Zariman Ten Zero, its existence there supports its duality or concurrent existence of two realities (both of which are real - again Paradox). There is something else that bugs me a lot. On the wikipedia page of the Zariman Ten Zero it says "Years later, the lost ship reemerged from the Void and was recovered." and on the same page, as Ember codex entry says "But you reopened the case, days later.". So when did the ship got out of the void? After a few years or after a few days? Does it says somewhere else how much has passed?

Isn't it also possible, that in the void the Zariman crews thoughts manifested? Their Ego became the Tenno, and their shadow stayed hidden in the void, but still near their conscious selves. That would make the Tenno the remaining thoughts of the crew. So what if thoughts, fears and anger became reality, while your inner self manifested. That would have been confusing. And you go to sleep and your shadow self goes on a rampage. That's what I think. This idea still doesn't contradict manipulation by the void or Orokins (are they really gone).

Do you think Erra might be affected by the same force?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.... mind blown.

If I had been in this circumstance, my first desire would be to subdue. With any and all aggressors, my goal is to make us both safe until we can diplomacy our way out of it.

this is interesting, so correct me if I'm wrong but in a way the void was testing us to see if we were worthy of its power? Through hallucinations and false memories?

hallucinations like the zero system from gundam wing showing potential futures and trying to force the pilot to do what has the highest probability of winning no matter the cost?

Wait if time has a part in the lore of the tenno and the physical body of the tenno are in the void. Wouldn't that mean the spiritual version of the tenno brang the zeramen 10 zero through time? After all, the ship was ravaged and ember primes codex said that it was completely fine

So, the finger is a piece of the man in the wall, who also is the void, but it also was something or some one that worked with the orokin, but beacuse it is a thing and also an entity, or i got everything wrong?

I'm split I think two things either the void wrapped the kids mind..false visions lets say to believe their parents turned proving that the void is sentient or parasitic to a sense or that the void did change the parents and forced the kids to embrace the man in the wall the voids' agent of chaos

I think perhaps why the children didn’t go mad is because children are very adaptable & influenced, and are generally very accepting. So perhaps that’s why they can use the void powers?

Hopefully we can find out more once the Duviri paradox releases.

I had a similar theory, but, what we saw in the duviri paradox trailer is that the Zariman indeed crashed ! So I thought... Maybe it as something to do with the time. In this trailer we saw the operator became old like, instantly ? We also saw this shotgun aging really fast. So the void can make things age, but.... What if it can also do it the other way ? What if it can make things younger ? Here is my theory : The Zariman was sent into the void, with no child on board. Something happened... And the Zariman crashed on those void plains. Then a time paradox thing altered the Zariman, and sent it out of the void, "younger", like nothing happened. But it also altered the crew, making them younger. What if the Tenno ARE the Zariman's crew ? what do you think ? Do I miss something ?

I have a feeling the man in the wall is yourself from the future or your mortal version of your self trapped in the duvari paradox, also ballis holds margulas hand in the apostasy not lotus. Natah was changed to margulas image to infiltrate the teno

I don’t even play this game anymore I just like your videos

So about the lotus and the moon being hidden, i talked to you in a previous video about it but u didnt see my last message. Could u explore the fact that if the void is actually like a parallel plan/world then to hide the moon you probably have to have BIIG TIME void powers. So thats probably what erra refers to when he says that the lotus has something that their mother never had nor any other sentient, that she his "stained with their wickedness". He probably is referring to her void powers. You could speculate how did she get em and how did she even survivee the void in lua

could it be possible that the children are the adults on 10 Zero?

that actually makes sense...HOW DAMN DEEP DO YOU GO TO GET THIS SORT OF IMFORMATION?

I think Limbo is the man in the wall, he’s lost in the void to my memory, the man in the wall is what happens “when someone spends to much time in the void”-rebb

I always thought that the food ran out and the children hunted the parents

*Middle of the night* DsIEGE : I am going to upload! Just messing Love you DsIEGE!

how did u get ur tenno to look like that

so rell has a orokin in his head that we call tha man in tha wall

My mind = 💥

Well technically Limbo doesn't go to the void, he goes to the rift, a place in between the void and our plane

so its basically black clover vs the elfs and the devil as the mastermind all along

Will there be a civil war? The void tricking sun and moon into fighting, and then perhaps we all awake, and work together to fight the man in the wall. A total eclipse.

Say, did you ever mad a video theorizing that Lotus was tricking Tenno from the beginning? As in, by upholding the 'balance' and using 'protect the innocent' as a guise for making sure that no side in the solar system will be strong enough to stand against the Sentients, not to mention 'pushing away potential allies'?

I think you might have a type-o in the title - pa(t)ricidal*. Otherwise i find your theories very intriguing - to the point that it would be amazing if it turns out if that is DE's intentions, but somehow I doubt that they have all these subtle intents for the depth of the story. Hope I'm wrong and you are right!

I out right refuse to believe the shadow used visions to trick the kids. That means later on the tenno could discover this and either find a way to destroy the shadow, or ruin any plans the shadow was making. We've already seen what the void towers do to grineer and corpus.