Agreed, I don't think it's entirely fair to call him a villain (though I understand the choice of words cuz saying he is a hero is not quite true also). I can see why DV chose to portray the heel turn to make that known to the audience. But in the books we get a much more nuanced view of Paul's internal struggle. Ironically, having prescience and knowing the future illuminates for Paul just how little agency he has. He *will* become a messianic instrument of great strife regardless of what he does - locked in a seemingly endless pattern of human violence that plays out over and over again throughout the epochs

Probably, but they don’t really explain it well. Also, the book implies that the inevitability of the jihad was due to Paul’s hubris. This movie blames it on Jessica I guess. Also, he talks about a “narrow path” but it isn’t clear if that path was intended to avoid the jihad or what. So in the end when the jihad happens, was that him succeeding or failing at the narrow path.

Yeah, I feel like it's pretty undeniable that there was just no other way. Paul's alternative was to watch the Harkonnens slowly and inevitably destroy the Fremen, and eventually usurp the emperor, and turn the entire galaxy into their ceptic-tank world. I'm not seeing a huge range of options. Of course, the real question is, did Paul have to declare a holy war on the other houses once he got his revenge? My sense is that if he'd told the Fremen to just go back to the desert, that wouldn't have gone over well either. The bottom line was, the galaxy was primed for a war anyway, holy or otherwise. Paul wasn't the cause, he was the result of the emperor's choice to murder Leto. Everything ultimately resulted from the galaxy's rejection of Leto's humane governing style. Leto was the last hope of the galaxy to govern through mutual respect and popularity, rather than cruelty and violence.

Wouldn't that prove that Dan is right and Paul's arc in general is poorly conveyed?

@@-tom-8720 You could definitely make that argument. But I also definitely like the movie more after a second watch because I caught things I didn't the first time around.

@@-tom-8720 Not really. Throughout the conversations in this podcast, Dan always seems to miss a lot of subtle details in everything he sees, and this might just be one more case of it. Brandon saw it as pretty obvious, and many other people as well, including people who haven't seen the original Lynch adaptation or read the books. The movie chooses to trust the viewer to put the pieces together, and that is a very respectable way of telling a story. Handholding is another, they both ask different things from viewers, but it is all a matter of preference.

@@-tom-8720 not really, no. It was pretty clear if you paid attention

@@-tom-8720it is poorly conveyed in the movie because they removed his deep relationship with Chani and their son.

Agree. That's what I took away as the movie's intent as well.

I do think it was a little hard to follow his decision and that the movie could have done more to explicitly connect it with the destruction of Sietch Tabr. Because they didn't have the two year time jump in the movie he is not as connected with Sietch Tabr as he is in the book where that's been his home for two years. Also (book spoiler ahead) his and Chani's son dies in Sietch Tabr so there is another personal reason that that destruction is a catalyst. It's fine that the movie cut that, but I do think it would have been good for there to be more reason shown as to why the destruction of Sietch Tabr was so impactful for Paul.

Nah yeah Villeneuve fucked the story up a lot for me as a fan of the books... *Book 1 spoiler, don't read further if you if you intend on reading first book (which I highly recommend you do)* There is a time jump in which Paul and Chani have a son named Leto II, and Alia is already born.... when Sietch Tabyr is attacked baby Leto II is killed by Harkonnens and Alia is taken hostage to the emperors ship. It's not just their baby being killed but also Gurney holding a knife to Jessica's neck because he thought for 4 years straight that Jessica was the one who betrayed Leto and House Atreides. It's these events that motivate Paul to take the water of life because he couldn't see these events coming.

@@DHass-nl4jz agreed. See, going into the movie, I was expecting it to be after the time jump, so I wasn’t expecting it to pick up right where Part 1 left off. Made everything feel a little rushed. Still love the movie, but I think I like Part 1 better.

Why does the Emperor order Duke Leto to Arrakis?

It kind of is. In terms of action, it's faster. In terms of character development and plot, it's so slow as to go almost nowhere. I say almost because you do get a couple of moments where a character just suddenly flip flops.

Yeah part 2 felt like a montage. It just jumps from one scenario to another with very little connecting tissue.

@@erenbecomesdovecrying6016 I really don't understand this complaint. What is your idea of "connecting tissue" exactly? The film has a plot, and the scenes play out that plot in a linear, logical fashion.

@@merlordmodding Dude's just trying to have a hot take

@merlordmodding there's not a lot of build between the events. The movie jumps from one huge event to another without much plotting, conversation, or storytelling. I'm not saying it's bad necessarily, but it does move incredibly fast in terms of telling the story of Dune. I'm just pushing back on the idea that Dune 2 moves slow.

Denis Villeneuve directing a Cosmere adaptation would be incredible for sure

literally my thoughts while watching these in imax

​@@srlong1123He would be a terrible fit for them, and I'm a Denis stan Sanderson's stories are all about fast paced action and clearly defined powers, fun dialogue and characters. Denis's style is the LITERAL opposite of that. Let's not just say we'd love a guy we like doing literally any project we also like the source material of...

@@LeoSkyro yes he's literally said he doesn't care about dialogue just how stuff looks on screen. Really weird take for a director of fiction.

@@LeoSkyro Michael Bay Mistborn!

this is why he made a signature that wouldn't strain his hand after repeating the same movements hundreds of times

You could have more conflict with Rabban, have the middle be them defeating him, then Feyd takes over and attacks the Sietch and we end with Paul and the survivors heading south.

@@NateJones10 yeah this was the version I pitched to my friend the night I saw it. taking the momentum, putting harkonnen back on their heels, until feyd intervenes and they flee to the south, makes a perfect act 2 IMO. the version we got is rushed and confusing just to avoid being 2 movies long

It really bugs me how people misrepresent Paul's relationship with the Fremen. Yes, he used them as warriors, but he definitely did not exploit them in the way people are portraying it. He eventually terraforms the planet and literally gives them the green paradise they've yearned after for generations. They got exactly what they wanted from him. The conflict comes from the fact that they weren't prepared for such a radical shift in their lifestyle, and that causes a splinter faction of traditionalist fremen who want to go back to the old ways.

I believe that he is setting himself up to eventually be killed by Chani as a way of handing leadership of the Fremen over to her, so that they will truly be led by one of their own, just like he says they deserve to be in the 2nd film. My guess is that the Dune: Messiah film will be mostly from the POV of Chani and Irulan (now that Paul is omniscient, it would be difficult for him to be the protagonist) and him deliberately setting himself up to be toppled would align well with the character as presented to us in the 2nd film.

Walk without a rhythm. And you wont. Attract. The worm.

​@@chickenmonger123Oh man, now we know why Christopher Walken talks without rhythm!

"Except when I put my pants on, I make gold records". I once met ol Col. Angus down the way by Shady Thickets. What a distinguished man of culture he was!! Thoroughly impressed with the old codger.

now you've ruined these movies for me FOREVER 😂😂😂

Sadly that's how I felt whenever I saw him on screen. It kind of took me out

Hobbit was terrible as a 3 parter, and would have been far better as a 2 parter imo. I agree with these two in that Dune needed 3 films. So much was left out (especially mentats, Arrakeen culture more BG etc). Also, they could have made them a bit shorter while omitting less.

My guess is that the Messiah film will follow the POV of Chani and Irulan (now that Paul is prescient) and will involve Chani eventually leading the Fremen to rebel against Paul, and discovering in the end that Paul deliberately sacrificed himself to be toppled so the Fremen could unite around a leader from their own people. It would be a great way to cap off both characters and their relationship. Having the 3rd film end with Chani mortally wounding him, and discovering before he dies that he planned all of it as part of securing the future for the Fremen which she wanted, would be a pretty powerful ending which would let them topple Paul while still redeeming the character.

I didn't see it as Paul becoming "evil" when he drank the Water of Life. I saw him making a choice to do something he knows will complicate things, so that he can more aptly choose the path he will follow, understanding the costs and benefits as he chooses.

I get that the movies can't be the books, but they cut out SO MANY important details, and without those details, the characters' motivations either made no sense, or were as contrived as of the lazy writing coming out of Hollywood these days. Not to mention the direction they took Chani really pissed me off. It really took the nuance out of what Herbert was trying to get across. Instead of a complex story about being forced to make make choices because of forces beyond your control for the good of your people, they reduced her down to a pouting brat.

Bro wanted a 10 hour movie 💀

​@@firstNamelastName-ho6lvYou didn't?

I think there’s a directors cut in the works…. So many scenes were shot and then cut.

It makes sense that they skipped it. The goal of an adaptation is to adapt the story to a new, very different medium, not re-create.

Pretending you know the intentions of a dead author always sounds so arrogant, and typically ends up being what the director wishes the author intended, not what they actually intended. There are ways to better emphasize that Paul is not a hero besides changing Channi’s character and having her leave. In fact, I’d argue it diminishes the real horror of what Paul is. They should have shown the horrors of the Jihad. The billions killed. Not “Oh so sad the protagonist lost the girl.”

@@Florkl There's no need to "pretend" anything here. It is very well documented that Herbert was dismayed by the reaction people had to Paul in the first book, thinking of him as a heroic savior, which is exactly what Herbert was warning people about. Denis is not pretending to know intentions, he knows them, the same as many other readers who have gone beyond the book and started to learn about Herbert as a person and his own thoughts about his own work. There isn't arrogance in there, only respect. Chaging Chani's character is just one of the ways to make clear that Paul is on a path to destruction, but it is one of the most effective ones because it affects Paul on a personal level instead of just presenting the situation as a "Big Picture" kind of deal. It humanizes Paul even further, focuses on the irony of him being a walking God and still being a slave to destiny, it creates a tangible thing for him to lose, and it also creates a more dynamic Fremen society, which instead of being shown as a monolith, shows it as being composed of individuals with different beliefs and values, which is way more realistic. While Denis is adapting Herbert's intentions, which affect the movie on a character and thematic level the most, he is still working within the confines of the book, thus, showing the horrors of the Jihad and millions killed makes no sense because that war hasn't started, and it only begins in the last couple of minutes. These horrors are still alluded to in the film using Paul's visions, which feed into his reluctance to follow the path that has been laid before him. So, your solution ends up being something that goes outside the confines of the first book, and also makes the entire situation one-dimensional. Instead, the movie goes for a more layered approach that fits better the situation, the feelings and the logical conundrums that characters are facing within the story.

@@glass12 This is interesting - I misunderstood Herbert too, but in a way where I was always disappointed with the resolution to book 1. I always thought book 2 was a great pre-Sanderson-esque ending to the Paul Atreides story.

@@glass12I am aware of the regrets- that’s why I mentioned emphasizing the horrors of Paul’s actions. It’s everything beyond what’s documented that I have issues with. Slightly extending the scope of the timeline for the movie to show a bit of that jihad in action is still much less of a change than what they did to Chani. Especially since any adaptation of Dune Messiah will have to either be wildly different from the book, or else walk back the change, making it a waste of time and negating the message.

@@Florkl I disagree completely. Overextending the timeline to show that in this movie makes no sense, not only because that is not part of the first book, and thus scenes likes those are better saved for the third film but also because there wouldn't be enough time to make them justice, and it would only end up hurting the pacing and cohesion of this film. That's why Dune Messiah exist in the first place, and thus it makes sense to dedicate an entire film to those consequences, instead of an appendix in this one. What they did to Chani only creates a more complex character, which is always welcome in my opinion. Also, Paul very clearly states in this movie that he has seen that Chani will come around, and why not? They are clearly in love, and Chani's reaction is more than logical for the character she was established in the movie as, however, being a complex character and not just the idea of one, she, just like Paul will struggle to find a way to make their relationship work even if everything is put against, even themselves. Nothing done in Part 2 negates any message at all, it just adds more layers to the situation, as it should be. Also, the ending of this film with Chani going into the desert makes perfect sense if you go back to see Part 1 and how that movie ended and also how Messiah will end. Denis is clearly thinking ahead when making decision for each one of these films.

Oh I like that. I really dont mind the way the movie does it, but this could have worked.

I think that would work well for Alia. But make no sense for Jessica without further developing her hate for her literal father. Imo Paul was the best person to kill him for an on screen adaptation.

@@carontorliak2760 I mean that Alia would kill baron using her mother, controlling her. It wouldn't be Jessica's conscious decision. However she has as many reasons to hate baron as Paul (Vladimir's literal grandson).

Toddler Alia is OP in Dune. In Dune Messiah she is crazy and fucking over everyone. She is going to have no good phase. She has who claim to rule. Alia of the blade... Maybe she gets that name by slaughtering everyone who doesn't accept her rule, OMG.... Now we have a divided fan base. Haters going to hate and man haters going to love. The Baron was the enemy of the whole Fremen people. Who killed him directly with a knife? Little Fremen Alia. ALIA OF THE KNIFE! ALIA OF THE KNIFE! ALIA OF THE KNIFE!

YES! and maybe he saw something happening to humanity worse than the Jihad. Its like no one every reads God Emperor.

@@Chris-iz1rw hardcore agree! I talk about this a lot in my video analyses

@@miscellaneousgab Cool! I'll check it out.

Came here to find and like this comment.

IMO I'd put Dune 2 at a 10/10 and Dune 1 at a 9/10

@@BioStormX yup. I’m a harsh critic, normally. Dune 2 was the best movie since Fellowship of the Ring.

@@BioStormX So rare for a sequel to do better, not since maybe Empire Strikes Back

​@@error.418What do people always forget Wrath of Khan when discussing superior sequels??

It also makes Chani much better character than she is in the book. More believeable and suits better is different time scale!

​@@haukionkannelThey just had to make a woman conflict with a man in this day and age there can never be harmony shown between men and women. Girl bosses have to boss.

@@haukionkannel Or. By cutting Hara and entire facet of Fremen culture to appease common western sensibilities diminish her character. Fremen where polygamous and Chani having problems with extra wifes is unFremenlike.

@@pofruin that’s not her problem LOL. Her problem is he becomes something she doesn’t want to follow.

I don't agree, Paul tells Chani over and over again, most notably mere moments before saying he will wed Irulan, that he loves her and only her for as long as he breathes. Previously in the movie, Lady Jessica tells Paul that he will wed the most strategic partner. This does more than enough to get the message across that it's a power-establishing wedding and that it will never be anything but surface level.

She can take the role of the Fremen who miss the old ways in Messiah and ultimately participate in the conspiracy. She sees herself as staying loyal to the Fremen while others have abandoned the culture in exchange for ruling the galaxy.

@@calebmauer1751 It still leaves a narrative void. Chani is a pivotal figure in Paul's life and their absolutely devotion to each other is a central motivator.

Grade-a reference 👍

I'm guessing those are pages that will eventually get bound into books. Doing it that way is just less cumbersome than shipping him 50k 800 page hardcovers.

@@rottensquid now that makes sense, I was like what kind of booklet things is he signing and why

Came to share this trailer.

I'm so excited for Dune Prophecy. I'm a massive fan of the Brian/Kevin books, and I think the show will help people understand that Dune, as a saga, is about the Sisterhood and it saving humanity from itself

@@Spoonishpls I am little worried that it is giving to much GOT vibes. Could be bad. But maybe not

@@TK4K411 Me too. Especially after looking at the casting, I'm afraid of them just taking a few things from the source material and just making everything else up to try and get a new GOT. Then it fails and they say well audiences just don't want fantasy anymore 🙄

​@@SpoonishplsGiven how butchered WoT was I'm very sceptical about this series...

It is, what is clear is that he is being forced to take a path he doesn't want to because it leads to the death of billions. This perfectly fits the way Paul is portrayed in Dune Messiah. He is never depicted as an evil person, he is not a Sauron or a Voldermort type character, but did open up the path for countless atrocities to be done in his name, and he is conflicted about it, as he should. Things just got out of hand.

I agree 100%. In this movie it is not clear that he is a villain at all. For all we know, he could be right that defeating the Harkonnens and the emperor at all costs is the lesser of evils due to what they would do over time if he doesn't. I think people are using their knowledge of later books to inform their understanding of this movie, which doesn't say anywhere concretely that his decision was wrong or villainous.

@@glass12 This. This is why Paul is such a great character. People try and say he is the villian of the story but that is just as much an over simplification of him as saying he is the Chosen One. House Harkonnen and House Corrino are definitely villians in the story and I would argue that defeating them is a heroic moment. Atleast for the Fremen, who are the main viewpoint we are viewing the Harkonnen occupation from. And you could say that the lives of most of the Fremen improved from what Paul did. But it is a classic example of "do the ends justify the means", and why we shouldnt put people on pedestals. Paul doesnt feel good about it but I think he feels justified and there are terrible consequences for what happens. If he hadnt done what he did what would have become of the Fremen and the Harkonnens? Violence still would have occured.

No, you’re supposed to agree with Chani cause she’s a woman

I mean I think the whole story is very clear that he's the villian, but builds up enough threads of doubt as to make it interesting.

I would say the golden path undermines Lehto II as a villain. Paul doesn't have the guts to do it, can't make that sacrifice thus reinforcing him as a villain.

You sir are 100% correct, Thank you for mentioning it. I said as much in my comments as well.

Paul is Darth Vader, he had the chance to achieve the Golden Path but stumbled on the way. Leto II is Luke, who managed to avoid the precipice Vader fell into.

@@glass12 Um, no. This misses the entire point of Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune... Paul is not Darth Vader. He saw the Golden Path and chose the "lesser of two evils" to save humanity, which required allowing evils to be done in his name. He became a figurehead, powerless in his own empire, with a government and religion springing up around him, (fueled by the revenge-obsessed Fremen and the Bene Gesserit Missionara Protectiva). Paul spent his life trying to avoid the worst futures he saw, while staying on the Golden Path to humanity's survival. After a certain point, he even worked toward tearing down the false figurehead that the Fremen had created out of him, along with the government and religion surrounding him. Leto is not Luke... I don't even know where to begin... there is no comparison here.

Yea, it entirely justifies all his actions and means he’s not a villain. Really wish people would stop saying he is

huh, when i rewatched it my takeway was that he randonly sees jamis who says something random and suddenly paul goes south

spice = atium spice is derived from the worms atium is pieces of a gods body

spice gives users prescient visions atium gives mistborn prescience into a near future

Damn, never made the connection before. Especially the atium stuff, good insight.

spice is used as a basis for monetary exchange atium is used as monetary exchange

Context from Dune Messiah when he is abandoned in the desert - “He told me the future no longer needed his physical presence,” Tandis had reported. “When he left me, he called back. ‘Now I am free’ were his words.”

Thank you, the folks that are raving for this adaption have obviously never read the books or have forgotten them. Having read the books multiple times, watched all versions (the SpiceDiver’s as well) , I currently feel the SyFi version was a better adaptation (would be interesting to see what they could have done with a huge budget and a few more hours. The new version is visually stunning and beautiful, it does lose much of the plot and makes some jumps to fill gaps, for someone that’s never read the books, it works, although they will miss a lot that from the books. If anything maybe some folks will take the chance to pick up the books and get the full picture/experience.

​@@michaelpayne8102I started to watch Dune part 1 and I think I was ten or fifteen minutes in when I ordered Herberts six books. It just drew me in. I wanted to know all about the magic system, the politics, the history. As I kept watching I just got more and more excited to get my brain on those books.

@@ramudon2428 That’s the one blessing for the movies, the opportunity to get more ppl to read the actual work.

@@michaelpayne8102 Indeed. Dune has always been right outside of my intentions, for decades, the movie just pushed it right over the line. The only redeeming quality of the wheel of time series for instance has to be that it may bless some poor soul with the joy of reading the series who otherwise wouldn't have.

It's only shown for around a page in the book iirc

I was expecting some helms deep type battle and then it was already over in 5 mins.

Denis extended that sequence as much as he could. In the book is like 1 or 2 pages and that's it. For me, it was enough, it showed how unprepared the Emperor really was, and like Brandon explains here in the podcast, he was only holding the throne by a thread. Denis also doesn't do Director's Cuts, his theatrical cuts are his final cuts, and everything left on the cutting room floor is there for a reason.

​@@glass12the final attack is way more than 1 or 2 pages. The emperor's retinue preparing in his throne room with alia murdering the baron and Paul's forces breaking in all happens before the fight scene with feyd.

@@MR-KZfaqChangedMyHandle We are talking about the assault scenes to the palace. The opener said it was too short and wanted more of an extended battle. Indeed, the battle outside the palace is like one page in the book, nothing more. Herbert was focused more on the characters inside the palace.

All they needed was Stilgar sending the spice bribe to the guild, and guild agents preventing the great houses from landing at the end. Which would have been helped by the guild banker being at the dinner scene we lost in part 1

none of that is essential to the telling of the core themes of Dune

​@@MrSmokinDragon I think knowing more about the space guild adds stakes that contribute to the themes. In the movie you kind of don't see the connection between spice and the ability for space travel to happen, so it's a little less clear why spice is important other than just being an addictive drug that can enable visions

@@DHass-nl4jz One of the first lines in the first movie is how spice makes interstellar travel possible

@@OzymandiasMDyeah but then it’s never really discussed or shown again. I just think that could have been more emphasized to add stakes

That's basically book 1, 2, and 3 in order, lol. Book 3 pretty much lays out your 3rd point immediately after Leto II's symbiosis begins.

It wasn't a short time though, it actually does take place over more time. That's why they said it's kind of like a montage, more time is implied to be happening than what we directly see on screen. Jessica going south happened quite a while after they got there, and then she was in the south for a long time. Rabban fought against the Fremen for a long time before Feyd Rautha gets involved. The way they show the ambushes on harvesters, implies that there are more we aren't seeing, and I don't think they're just doing them every day without ever going back home. Plus Gurney Halleck's story implies he had enough time to get a job he's already tired of. The movie was fast but it was depicting time passing, maybe even the two years from the books.

100% agree with you 👍

🤝 Chani is the weakest part of the movie

Completely agree on both

Well, that's affecting my reading. Thanks!

God Emperor IMO is not as hard to adapt as people think. It would be hard if they adapt it literally and it's just 3 hours of monologue, but there's actually quite a lot of fascinating stuff that happened in those thousand of years during his rule.

It still had some of the worst blue-screen compositing of the 80s. But the actual practical effect was pretty spectacular. On the other hand, I thought the navigators were blue? That one didn't even have blue eyes. How could a being who literally breathes spice not be saturated?

I get that everyone will interprest things differently. To me it seemed pretty clear: It was signposted by the emperor that he felt leto was weak because he put love before duty Paul resists the mantle of messiah until he is blindsided by feyd rautha Harkonnen's attack Moreover, he sees that if he keeps fighting the way he does, Chani will die So to save Chani, he becomes a villain (that chani cannot love) and embraces the false messianic mantle also, interestingly, the movie has a structure where effectively, the climax stands at the midpoint, when Paul decides to become the lisan al Gaib, where the whole second half feels more like dominoes falling into place than the protagonist overcoming obstacles. The tension lowers throughout the ending, with a rather anticlimactic final battle. I'm not sure how deliberate that is, but it feels like the writer and director don't want us to cheer to much at the end and make the battle underwhelming on purpose, conveying the inevitability granted by prescience, and resulting in something resembling a tragic 5 act structure more than an epic 3 act structure. The first part also culminated towards the midpoint, in the harkonnen attack and was more a journey towards the within after that, with smaller and smaller stakes throughout the last act, which I find interesting.

One line "I didn't see it coming" When feyd attacked helped me understand why he had to do it.

I think it's established early on that Paul is capable of both tenderness, empathy, compassion aswell as violence, coldness, vindictiveness so when the conflict between the Fremen and the Harkonnens reaches a boiling point with the destruction of Sietch Tabr, I felt that it makes sense for him to give into one of the 2 forces pulling at him throughout the story. He wasn't a "villain" at that point though but when he drinks the water of life he is filled with the pain and sorrow of all his male & female ancestors he begins to constantly live in the past and future all at once. All this combined with the revelation that he is part harkonnen, I felt it made sense to me but that being said, if it didn't hit for you then it didn't hit.

Sincerely I can not comprehend the opposite

I fully agree.

This episode came out 40 minutes ago, your comment is 23 minutes old, and the episode is 36 minutes long. It's easy not to comprehend something when you discount any opinion but your own.

Part 1 one was better.

I agree. I feel that part 2 just turned everything up even further from part 1. It took what worked and made it even better.

I too thought he was great, just tragically under-utilized.

I feel like his character was portrayed poorly, on purpose. The typical "let's make him an old white and dumb guy and show how it's HER [Irulan] who should have ruled all along". Same with the "let's make the southern Fremen the dumb religious folks while the Northern woman (Chani) tells what's up (breaking the "Show, don't tell" rule) in her typical American accent VERY uncharacteristic of a Fremen.

Would have loved to see Mads Mikkelsen as the emperor.

Yes, exactly. I've never thought of Paul as a villain, though. He seems like a tragic hero to me.

@@isoldam I don't think of Dany as a villain either. They're both definitely tragic figures. Fire and blood was always in their future, whether they won or lost.

Dany doesn’t have a family.

That must be a big series, like Game of Thrones, even one book is way too long for a movie. One book would need like 3x3 hours to have a fighting chance. But I would love to see it.

I think sanderson has said he would prefer stormlight as an animated series. And I agree

You really want a director who has admitted to despising dialogue to lead a fantasy narrative whose focus is WORDS???

@@AleksandarIvanov69 Yes. Only dialogs characters say can be theirs ideals. It would be Epic as f..k

@@AleksandarIvanov69 100% my thinking. His hatred of dialogue explains a lot but not why he enjoyed reading Dune. Also he'd want to stamp his vision on the films. And who cares about a director's vision? Unless they wrote the script, like Kevin Smith, I do not care about their vision. Their job with a book is to bring it to life on the screen, as faithfully as possible and correctly interpreted, and well shot. I want Brandon Sanderson's vision of his work, not someone else's. And he's still very much alive, so is around to tell them no. Just like Good Omens and Invincible are better because the creators have some input (though Good Omens might have been even better if Pratchett had been alive and well to help a bit but we'd at least have been 100% sure it's what he wanted instead of 90% sure).

He’s closer to the villain than the hero lol

Paul was avoiding two outcomes - humanity's extinction and the golden path. The jihad was the "easy" middle ground between the two positions. Leto became the tyrant and followed the golden path because he was stronger than Paul because he was preborn like Alia but had Ghanima to help him not descend to abomination.

@@jeffw3905 Nope. We could argue about whether Paul becomes evil, though I don't think Herbert intended him to be seen that way. But "villain" is a role in a story that Paul clearly does not fill. The Harkonnens, the Emperor, and to some extent the Bene Gesserit fill that and Paul is opposed to them. Movie (not book) Jessica comes close to fitting that role. Her motives can be seen as more nefarious because she's not seeing future possibilities and realizing there's no good alternative. After she takes the Water of Life in the movie, she shifts from being a mother to pretty much totally being driven to a need to realize the BG dream of producing a Kwisatz Haderach.

This is me 100%. Really liked it in the theater, but even then, I kept thinking about how the Navigators were absent, or that Chani in the books is trained to be a potential Reverend Mother and is NOT a Fedaykin, or how Stilgar is supposed to be her uncle, or how Thufir isn't in the movie at all, or ... yeah. It was beautiful and well made, but I guess I'm too big of a fan of the book because I kept focusing on the stuff missing...

Well that is a take

@@angellover02171 have you read the book?

@tonkabeanicecream5698 yes I read the book and Chani is barely a character

@@angellover02171 what has that got to do with me not liking Zendeya for the role?

Not the movie, but the book does have a sequel.

Also Titanic. Which would be a very weird sequel

@@MrTohawk You know what? James Cameron has earned my trust. I'd watch Titanic 2.

@@PlaylistWatching1234 To be fair though, who wouldn't watch Titanic 2 - Sink Harder?

There were sequels planned for both ET and Titanic. Just never made it to production.

Paul came and destroyed tons of traditions after he woke up, for sure.

Also it is specifically said in that same scene with Chani and Paul that they arent in worm territory yet. So there is clearly some spots where they can move with out doing the sand walk.

@@dericplummer9272 Exactly

Beard-Guy Halleck!

Dude, exactly. Some people are upset at Herbert's writing of religion and also the movie's, but the Fremen religion was ultimately right and I think both mediums got that across really well. The Bene-Gesserit may have invented the religion, but it's possible that on a planet full of spice users, more real visions were had.

Yes, I always thought that was very clear. Not a villain, just a guy doing horrible things because they're actually better than the alternative. Project out from Atreides being wiped out, and Harkonnens taking over the Imperial Throne. I mean... not so good.

The condensed timeline def was the film's biggest issue imo, however it's still easily one of my fav, if not my number one fav movie of all time.

The books painted Paul in a bad light in the long run because Paul, unlike Leto, was unwilling to give up his humanity and fuse with the sand trout to become the god emperor; he instead chose the holy war path.

@@mikeriggs3891 I never thought it was an either or. Like, never thought the merging into becoming the god-emperor instead of the jihad. How would him being a god-emperor have changed whether the jihad carried on? The Jihad would have continued whether he became the god-emperor or not. The holy war had already been going on for a while before Paul started contemplating the merger to create the God Emperor. Becoming the god-emperor was about Paul, (or Leto II - who actually did what his father refused), to maintain firm and consistent dominance over the Imperium while shaping humanity in such a way to prepare it for the inevitable arrival of the ultimate "Enemy"

@@mikeriggs3891 But the holy war consolidated his power over the human inhabited galaxy, and then his son as god emperor could rule for 3000 years. Had he just turned himself into a half worm being, without the holy war, that wouldn't have accomplished domination over the human worlds. But since Villeneuve apparently doesn't plan to do a fourth movie with LetoII turning himself into the God Emperor, the narrative in the story has to shift considerably.

He views himself as an outsider looking in, at the events unfolding and attributed to him. The Fremen used Paul as a figurehead to justify their revenge-fueled killing spree across the galaxy. Paul could not change this. Paul took blame for this only insomuch as he could not stop it. The whole government and religion that had sprung up around him had taken on a life of its own. He was powerless, despite being the most powerful person in the empire. Frank Herbert was warning against putting our trust in saviors, because in the end, they're just humans, and even with the best of intentions, they cannot control society. Even a ruler as benevolent and good-hearted as Paul, and possessing the spice-enabled prescience, and the genetic memory of humanity, as well as the mental training of a Mentat, and the Bene Gesserit training... all of that didn't even stand a chance against larger forces in society. (this extends to God Emperor of Dune's story.)

@@NameNotAChannel I read the books. Idk why you’re giving me a paragraph long summary that has nothing to do with my comment lmfaooo. Are you a bot?

@@dcm9652 No, I'm telling you Paul was not evil... he was doing good, as far as he was able, and allowed himself to be seen as evil to accomplish that good. If you can't get that blatant point, I can see how you missed it in the book.

@@NameNotAChannel did you miss the part where he compares himself to hitler because his people murder 61 billion ppl. My original comment wasn’t a question. He chooses the better of two evils but that doesn’t mean what he’s doing is “good” at all.