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It's implied in World Tour that after all his training he has kind of figured out ki like other characters. Meaning he could theoretically throw a projectile but it's just not his style.

Street Fighter: The Movie's EX Green Hand for Zangief can actually reverse opponents fireballs on them which was pretty neat.

If I remember right, wasn't it explained briefly at some point that green hand as a technique was literally born from his hatred of others constantly throwing projectiles at him? Like, the fire was literally his burning hatred of zoning.

19:25 Back in the day when Street Fighter IV was new, me and my buddy always played it at his place after school. One day, during a heated fight, he came up with the name "Fist of Chernobyl". We called it that ever since.

I think a missed opportunity for Capcom was having his Drive Impact animation not be the green hand animation. I feel like that would've been a good middle ground for the character.

The flame comes from him sweating vodka, and slapping the air so hard it ignites.

7:48 "They don't usually let grapplers get that strong" nailed it right on the head. Gief wasn't 'busted' or 'broken'. He was near top tier. That was the only issue. There's no issue with Akuma always being top tier. Chun li being top tier for 30 years. Ken. etc. I honestly don't know why they keep putting him in the games if they despise him.

Don't worry. Three years down the line when we get the "final" season of DLC for SF6, they'll do a character movelist update and add back Green Hand and also give us Aerial Tundra Storm so Geif can counter kicks in the air and go from A tier to X tier and banned from tournaments.

As kids (I'm near 40) we use to say that Zangief has the green hand move because he's from Russia and he was exposed to radiations because of Tchenorbyl XD

To explain the reason for Zangief having green energy on his hand, capcom can say storywise, Zangief saw it fit to learn how to use his inner spirit energy to increase his physical power. In Zangief understanding, he comes to rationalize that this energy is from within himself and not some cheap trick. The reason he only has the energy on one attack is because he is still a beginner at using energy and is in no hurry to progress his skill using it.

Ed completely immune to Tundra Storm in 6.

I thought they removed green hand because it wasn't thenatically appropiate, to which I wondered "why didn't they make it a blur/distortion effect instead?

Dang, they gave Zangief a White Wild Assault before it was invented, crazy.

I think people are just afraid to make zangief a fire bender again Or... whatever green hand is supposed to be

Honestly, my only real confusion is why it isn't red energy for a guy nicknamed Red Cyclone. I actually like that Zangief would use those kinds of techniques exclusively to counter fireballs, it feels very in character and I'd love to see it return in some way.

Lariat sucks against fireballs in SF6 because it lacks much horizontal movement. You pretty have to be at point blank range.

The green hand animation in the alpha series looked so nice.

The lore was he learned it to beat fireballs in the comic. He didn't understand Ki but through training he learned away to block it.

I miss the “Green Hand”. I thought it was a fun spacing tool to use & I’m not even a Zangief Main.. SFlV was so good. Miss those days

Also, a super move I wish Zangief had in every game but only has in Pocket Fighter is the russian dance super kick attack. It proper suits his character.

Poetically, Tundra Storm was initially DP+P in SFV, but they changed it to DP+PP because players kept getting it accidentally XD

Honestly your third idea for why they got rid of it was one ive been thinking on for a while. Zangiefs ascetic of compensating for a lack of "magic" with rigorous effort and training is way more interesting to me than him just also being magic. Besides the jumping 20+ feet while holding another person thing, zangiefs more """"Grounded""""" than everyone shooting fire, ki, or sonic booms, and I feel him fighting against the magic marital artists with nothing but blood sweat and tears fits with the grappler stuggle to get in in neutral. Despite being out of everyones weight and height class, Zangief always feels like the underdog due to the magic factor and I think thats way more interesting than him also having a weird glowing magic hand.

Quick little extra with SF2: The "Banishing/Vanishing Flat" had an important use in his toolkit. Block forcing. As a grappler, having people walk back out of his range was annoying. But anyone just holding back would get locked in block if he did it with proper spacing, putting them right in SPD range. Being able to make forward progress while locking someone in place, and it be basically invisible giving the input, if they aren't jumping as a grapler is scary. And when he's in, usually unless they have a good 'get off me' move, it's SPD city to KO. And if spaced with a zoner to catch their fireball as it coming out but not hit them? Why at high level you will see it used almost exclusively as a move that whifs if used, and spaced to do so. Or after knockdown.

I always felt that Zangief did have the capacity for having KI (or CHI) energy and that's what you see in the green hand, just not on the level of ryu, ken and chunli, he could just create a bit but not enough to send it flying in a fireball

I remember when SSF2T came out and added the green hand. I read about it in GamePro magazine. They mostly sold it as an anti-fireball move. I could tell just from reading the magazine that it wasn't any good. Amazing that all these years later, it's still being talked about.

Yes, it is weird. Why can his hand become green?. I mean this is a realistic game where karate guys throw plasma balls, yoga is all about violence, people can jump 3 times their own height, gravity is optional and no one ages anymore.

SFIV Zangief was my favorite Zangief and green hand was a big part of that. Ignoring why he's able to conjure green flames, it was a superb gap closer made watching matches with him much more intense instead of just watching him zoned and footsied for ages. I know that's by design as grapplers have limited range/mobility to balance them out, but that kick-counter move they gave him in SFV was an insult.

Why is it for three games in a row, Gief always lacks a consistent combo ender that doesn't require using meter in the first version of every game?

I used to main Geif in SF4, and I miss that green hand so very much. One thing I loved to do was to space myself nicely and use the LP green hand and whiff hitting the opponent, and then command throw. It was so hard to react in time for the LP version.

My take is that they should give him a costume in SF6 that's exactly the same as his default, but he's painted his one hand green. Just to dig the knife a little deeper.

Tundra Storm is actually useful in a very specific situation in SF6. It can be used against a drive impact that's kicked based and it will counter it (like Juri's DI as an example). Still a useless move for the most part but it's something to keep in mind if you're burned out, pushed into a corner, and you know the DI is coming.

As someone who loves grapplers and often mains them I swear... **When grapplers get even the slightest sort of advantage or even upgrade even if everyone else gets one or if it's like Zangief being able to Drive Rush like everyone else in SF6** Everyone else: "OH NOOOO!! YOU CAN'T DO THIS! THEY'LL BECOME BROKEN!!"

I just don’t understand why fighting game devs seem to think grapplers can’t be good. “Casuals hate fighting them” but they also hate fighting zoners and JP was clearly not held back. “It’s easier for casuals to play grapplers than zoners.” Is it? Zangief requires 360 motions, the hardest motion input in the game. That’s an instant barrier to entry for all casuals.

I want green hand back. I started with Sf6 Zangief and one day playing sf4 with friends I tried Zangief and when I felt the power of green hand I was salty when I realized it never came back.

As someone who's pretty new to fighting games and wasn't there having you cover these things is always interesting.

Chernobyl hand

I have a proposition for Capcom, In exchange for Green Hand, give him something cool like a hit grab (because Manon and Ed are the only 2 characters with a hit grab Ed's Psycho Flicker and Manon's spin) or another special that can link from lights like a rolling elbow or something. Edit: Why is there an exchange in the replies about my profile picture, it's a Luxray and it isn't a furry picture. Also this comment was for fun and not an actual proposition but it would be cool if this did become an actual thought in some player's heads and Capcom if this does become a thought.

I would normally say yes but other characters through the games have been so good when he was just mid or actually bad. If I’m correct he was only really good in one mainline SF game. So I think he deserves to have it.

Tundra Storm is just exaggerated version of the Dragon Screw lol

The "Zangeif doesn't really need Green Hand" argument was always the equivalent of "Ryu doesn't really need tatsu" to me. Giving characters moves they don't really need has always been a hallmark of fighting games and IMO it applies to literally every other SF character FAR more than it does Gief. Cammy doesn't need her divekick far more than Gief doesn't need Green Hand. Neither character "needs" these moves, but one is clearly more abusive and degenerate than the other.

Unrelated: Damn the step up to 6 for Character Models is impressive.

Somewhat weirded out you didn't mention banishing flat in Alpha/Zero games, SF4 is definitely inspired by that version and the possibilities in alpha 2/3 were much better than in turbo (not to mention the switch at least in A3 to a shoryuken input

I might have been because Gief was supposed to be a normal guy with no powers other than he's really strong. SF has always had the guy with no powers but he is still strong archetype like Balrog, Dudley, Alex, Jamie, Luke, (In the lore Luke has no actual powers, he can punch the air really hard and it makes a shockwave) and Laura (in the lore, she only rubs her hair to get the electricity) And seeing Gief just having a power to make a green flame appear on his hand with no story whatsoever was kind of out of place with the SF story and the green hand doesn't make one story appearance in any of the games, I think that Capcom had to unless in this game, they bring some lore to back the hand up if they do give it to him in Season 2.

Gief being recast almost as a Sports Entertainment wrestler is really funny, and makes him more likeable lol. He's the Johnny Cage of SF

Green hand is not green fire - it is GREEN AURA STINK from when he reaches back and touches his butt and then slaps you with it

I think the Vanishing Flap is perfectly in-character as a technique he picked up specifically to counter projectiles.

So let me get this straight, they took away his combo ender/movement/anti-fireball/reversal tool and hes sucked ever since? Color me shocked.

I've been waiting for this video for so long, but had no idea which one of you was going to make it 😂

I think Green Hand was a brilliant move. They found a way to reduce a grappler’s weakness and make them a huge threat. People need to fear and respect grapplers.

Not even a grappler main, but I miss seeing yall use green hand. But to balance it yeah.. that's the tough part. Props to @wonderfulwardy for mentioning the movie version. It'd be sick if in a future game they make green hand strictly an EX move, but it doesn't give him the forward movement as much even if he recovers instantly. And just have it so it turns fireballs back, but in a direction like diagonal up or down just to prevent a jump-in or a low follow up.

Yo JM im so glad you’re still around dude, I remember watching both you and doto on the early days of fighterZ, yall grew big LOVE TO SEE IT

I think more options is always a good thing, and while I don't play Gief, I wouldn't mind the move returning in some way to give him some spice. I could easily see it as something similar to Honda's clap - a dedicated quick fire-and-forget projectile counter, that sacrifices most other advantages for being reliable, or even just have green hand as a projectile reflect tool. Heck, give it some EX spice and let him do a crazy once-in-a-blue-moon combo with it, like how Honda's hand install works. It'd be something nice and wouldn't upset balance too much!

It's possible that they felt Cyclone Lariat is a more interesting way to punish fireballs on reaction.

honestly i think for future installments his headbutt should become a special move. maybe when he successfully hits a projectile with it he could cancel into a forward dash? or maybe make it a rekka starter with an advancing followup similar to green hand > red focus, but, like, not as stupid lol

LOVE the length, really informative, looking forward to more :)

When Geif was first announced in SF6, before fully understanding the drive rush mechanic, i thought they would somehow connect green hand to the "green" drive rush.

I would like to see more about the Alpha series, SFA3 is my favourite SF.

I always called it ghost hand. Ghost hand good. Bring back ghost hand.

I half want Gief in world tour mode to mention that he gave up using the green hand because he found it an unsportsmanlike technique. He’s definitely the type of person to give up an advantage if he feels it’s unfair to his opponents.

Headbutt in SF5 was always able to absorb projectiles even from launch. The change it got was in season 2, doing so would give CA meter.

Give Gief Green Hand

I think his running grab is the real mistake. It's never been good and it eats into his move real-estate for nearly zero benefit.

I think Green Hand could just be turned into a command normal for Forward MP. It removes the issues of having to balance each strength, removes EX Green Hand, removes it being a combo ender, and it allows it to be a safe poke and approaching tool that also destroys fireballs. And honestly yes, I think Green Hand is a weird move. I think the animation without the green plasma would be fine

His green hand should buff his grabs everytime he uses it to catch a projectile and if he has a green hand active he can slap a projectile back at an increased speed and damage.

Yo I just love this type of content. Keep it coming.

Love these deep dives into mechanics

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I never have played fighting games, I have no desire to playing fighting games and I never will play fighting games but I watch all of your videos, you have a gift in content creation and a very enjoyable and likeable personality, keep up the good work 😀

Green Hand is absolutely needed for him. Since they removed it, he has been bottom tier.

Its funny how older fighting games made grapplers eat good only to cruelly cripple them for the final iteration of patches or even the sequel. Id love to see Potemkin and Zangeif be actually good characters respectively. Not only when piloted by monsters like Snakeeyez lmao.

I’ve always wondered how spinning like a top makes a hadouken useless lol

10:29 going from SF4 to SF5 will never not give me whiplash

I'm glad this got a lot of views, this was one of my favorite videos and I've watched it many times at this point

Green hand is such an odd move for a wrestler, and really there isn't anything similar in pro wrestling. I mean SPD is also not a real move, but it's an over the top version of a real piledriver. What is green hand based on then? My theory is that it's supposed to be like a ball catching motion, and they added the green energy (fire?) to his hand as a visual cue, to make it clear that it can catch fireballs. It would be so much more wrestling-accurate, if he would repel fireballs with a steel chair.

For 18:28, I always assumed the green hand was supposed to be a reference to Chernobyl. (The stock he has powers because of radiation answer)

“The kicks not horizontal enough!” lol 😂

I think you mostly nailed why green hand isn't coming back. To add on to it, the issues gief has in sf6 could far more easily be solved by just making his current kit being better. His issues with meterless light confirms could be solved by green hand, but they could also just make lariat bigger/faster moving/faster startup. His issues with oki after common knockdowns could be solved by greenhand but also could be solved by making it so that getting both hits of OD lariat is more consistent since OD lariat gives really good oki if you get both hits. his issues with fireballs could be alleviated with green hand or they could speed up and increase the range of SA2 so reacting with it against fireballs is easier to do. obviously i wouldn't say no to green hand but it seems far easier, effective, and practical just to tweak his current moveset so it works better.

Now hear me out What if they gave EX Lariat green hands. Like has TWO green hands as he's spinning?

I think the last point you made is the best one! Green hand doesn’t really make any sense in the context of the rest of Gief’s kit. If they made a Demon Gief character or otherwise changed Gief’s backstory/character design in a future update, they could definitely bring back the green hand.

what i'd love to see is what would happen if gief could either use tundra storm as a normal-ass parry (i.e. blocks any non-projectile strikes and counters) or it still only works on kicks (any normal involving a K button) but he could trigger it during blockstun. one is considerably more disastrous than the other but i'd like a peek at the reality where that's a thing to see how far that affects his match ups

I never knew this was punishable with jab in SF4. It ended up feeling like an inevitable mix up with grab or lariat in the follow up!

Green Hand is good for games where characters don't have many universal options to deal with fireballs Street Fighter 2 was like, jump and block and that's it Street Fighter Alpha had both, plus custom combos SF3 had parries of course And SF4 has focus attacks But SF6, you've got jump, block, parry, and impact (kinda), on top of Zangief's lariat, so you don't really need a sixth way to negate them

Capcom needs to stop ironing out the nuance of their characters. It's not idiosyncratic- it's the details of an iconic time-tested character. Zangeif should always have Vanishing Flat, Ryu should have Shinku Tatsumaki and Shakunetsu Hadouken (or equivalent that knocks down) Ken should always have his 3 Crazy Kicks, Shinryuken and flameless shoryu-reppa. Classic characters should remain as they are. If you want to experiment with new ideas, put it on a new character and let them earn their own identity.

The Capcom balance team seems very conscious of that fact that a pure grappler is hard to balance and that the community would hate Zangief being at or near the top of the meta. Giving Gief green hand seems like a nice way out. Gief could improve his mobility and anti-zoning, while still not being a super mobile character. They could then tone down the damage of some of his big graps a bit so you don't risk "Guess for game" in every up close interaction.

i miss sf4 gief, he was the most fun that character has ever been to me. i never really tried learning him before it and he made the single player stuff like survival and time attack a lot more doable

SF5 and SF6 were the mistake.

The green hand is a reference to Chernobyl. It's supposed to be radioactive.

And don't forget that Tundra storm originally was just dp motion+ONE punch button. They had to patch it and make it two buttons because people were executing it accidentally, and the move is so bad they had to make sure you didn't execute it by mistake.

The green hand first appeared in Super SF2 Turbo. I'm surprised you didn't know this 🤦‍♂️

Well zangief had so much trouble with projectiles that they had to add a tool for him to get in. Without it zangief has a tough time in matchups. I like it because it balanced him as a character

I agree with your theory about the devs wanting Zangief to be more focused on wrestling, I think green hand was removed because the devs didn't think it matched Zangief's flavour. Zangief was definitely lacking without it in 5, which is why fans wanted it back so much, but personally I think Zangief is just fine without it in 6 and the drive system helps fill the gap left by removing green hand. Also the devs didn't add Tundra Storm because they thought it would make Zangief better, they were just fans of the Dragon Screw in pro wrestling so they added one to Zangief.

Zangief no longer needs green hand, for he has discovered how to make himself green!

Love these analysis/breakdown videos for Street Fighter 🐸

This move, or its variation, in SFD, deactivate passives from enemies upon hitting. So it is alive yet and really useful there!

To me Green hand was always like a a weirdly angled backhand chop. The green fire was just for cool effect and so it didn't look like other characters moves. Like, imagine the story potential there for him learning it from some weird guru that he ends up studying under. Ultimately, even if Zangief had a really great tool in EX Green hand, it never pushed him to the top. Deleting moves should be saved for menace characters and as much as I loved Gief in 4 he was never the problem in that game.

In 1994, I used to play mostly World Heroes 2 than Street Fighter. So, when SSF2 Turbo was released, I noticed Zangief's Green Hand very similar to Rasputin from World Heroes, who attacks with giant gloomy magic hands, giving him a large range of normal attacks. The fact of both being russian got me to think some theories at the time. :D

As far as lore goes green harlnd made sense since what separates the World Warriors and regular fighters is their chi-based moves and other superpowers and Zangief probably experimented with ki after watching Ryu fight, although Capcom most likely realized a 7 foot tall guy who can pull an entire submarine by himself was the only superpower he needed.

In Alpha, Green Hand was actually blue like a hadouken. I think it was just meant to visually convey that it's a special move with properties that can absorb fireballs. In Super Gem Fighter, it was blue, green, and red. They probably ended up sticking with green after that to make it more unique to Zangief, since he hates hadokens/fireballs/et all (the lore reason why he doesn't throw projectiles even though he can do Green Hand), and possibly a reference to radioactivity or Cold War experiments with his USSR background.

I was always curious about this move! It seemed super weird and interesting/funny, but I was confused on why Zangief can do it lore-wise. Seeing some of the replies/headcanons is pretty funny, so I kinda get it more. I think it could've returned for the Drive system in 6 as just a cool little detail, but who knows if we'll ever see this fan favorite move again.

Thanks, I genuinely never understood what the move was for when I was a kid because of the recovery