What are Cognitive Light Cones? (Michael Levin Interview)

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Жыл бұрын

Michael Levin's 2019 paper "The Computational Boundary of a Self" is discussed. The main topics of conversation include Scale-Free Cognition, Surprise & Stress, and the Morphogenetic Field. Michael Levin is a scientist at Tufts University; his lab studies anatomical and behavioral decision-making at multiple scales of biological, artificial, and hybrid systems. He works at the intersection of developmental biology, artificial life, bioengineering, synthetic morphology, and cognitive science.
🚩 / carlosfarias
🧠 The Computational Boundary of a Self: Developmental Bioelectricity Drives Multicellularity and Scale-Free Cognition (can read in browser or download as pdf)
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
❶ Scale-Free Cognition
3:05 Ultimate question of the embodied mind
5:50 The most difficult interview to prepare for
6:55 One of my favorite papers of all time (screenshare)
7:40 The Computational Boundary of a Self
9:25 Defining intelligence (cybernetics)
10:30 Cognitive light cones
16:50 All intelligence is collective intelligence
17:35 Nested selves vs. one integrated self (Not Integrated Information Theory)
21:10 The same dynamics in the brain occur in every tissue of the body
22:50 Why scale "free" cognition?
❷ Stress & Surprise
27:22 Stress = Surprise?
30:30 Intelligence within a salamander example (homeostatic capability of collective intelligence)
33:35 The scale-free importance of stress
37:30 Stress is an exported error signal
40:45 Stress means your problem becomes everyone's problem (cooperation without altruism)
42:25 Stress has no ownership metadata (gap junctions permit mind meld)
❸ The Morphogenetic Field
49:00 About 99% of the Shannon information in a cell is in the membrane and transmembrane gradient (Bob Gatenby)
52:25 Shannon information doesn't distinguish meaning...
55:53 Cancer cells have the wrong scope of "self"
1:01:17 Manipulating cells via retraining vs micromanaging
1:04:45 "Drugs and words have the same mechanisms of action" -Fabrizio Benedetti
1:07:10 Morphogenetic field of signals coordinating cell behavior, bioelectricity special layer (screenshare)
1:11:13 Harold Saxton Burr predicted this 100 years ago!
1:14:50 Connections to Zen Buddhism
1:18:18 Find more of Levin's work
🚩Links to Levin 🚩
www.youtube.com/@drmichaellev...
/ drmichaellevin
www.drmichaellevin.org/
as.tufts.edu/biology/levin-lab
Technological Approach to Mind Everywhere: An Experimentally-Grounded Framework for Understanding Diverse Bodies and Minds (2022)
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
Biology, Buddhism, and AI: Care as the Driver of Intelligence (2022)
www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/24/5/710
Emergence of informative higher scales in biological systems: a computational toolkit for optimal prediction and control (2020)
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/...
🚾 Works Cited
Jeremy Guay (visual artist) at peregrinecr.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_...
There's Plenty of Room Right Here: Biological Systems as Evolved, Overloaded, Multi-Scale Machines (Bongard & Levin 2023)
www.mdpi.com/2313-7673/8/1/110
Bob Gatenby talk on "Information Dynamics in Living Systems"
• Bob Gatenby talk on "I...
🚨 Note
Apologies for the sound issues. I have tried to fix the radiator knocking, but it's a building-wide problem, emanating from an old system. Also, this wasn't one of my crisper performances. Ever have those days where you just can't seem to find the right words in conversation? I thank Michael for his patience here, he was a most gracious guest.
🚀 What is this channel?
Exploring Truth in philosophy, science, & art. We'll uncover concepts from psychology, mythology, spirituality, literature, media, and more. If you like Lex Fridman or Curt Jaimungal, you'll love this educational channel.
p.s. Please subscribe! Young channel here. =)
#science #cognition #surprise #intelligence #stress #biomorphogenesis #bioelectric #cybernetics #zen

Пікірлер: 391

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

❶ Scale-Free Cognition 3:05 Ultimate question of the embodied mind 5:50 The most difficult interview to prepare for 6:55 One of my favorite papers of all time (screenshare) 7:40 The Computational Boundary of a Self 9:25 Defining intelligence (cybernetics) 10:30 Cognitive light cones 16:50 All intelligence is collective intelligence 17:35 Nested selves vs. one integrated self (Not Integrated Information Theory) 21:10 The same dynamics in the brain occur in every tissue of the body 22:50 Why scale "free" cognition? ❷ Stress & Surprise 27:22 Stress = Surprise? Navigating the space... 30:30 Intelligence within a salamander example (homeostatic capability of collective intelligence) 33:35 The scale-free importance of stress 37:30 Stress is an exported error signal 40:45 Stress = your problem becomes everyone's problem (cooperation without altruism) 42:25 Stress has no ownership metadata (gap junctions permit mind meld) ❸ The Morphogenetic Field 49:00 About 99% of the Shannon information in a cell is in the membrane and transmembrane gradient (Bob Gatenby) 52:25 Shannon information doesn't distinguish meaning... 55:53 Cancer cells have the wrong scope of "self" 1:01:17 Manipulating cells via retraining vs micromanaging 1:04:45 "Drugs and words have the same mechanisms of action" -Fabrizio Benedetti 1:07:10 Morphogenetic field of signals coordinating cell behavior, bioelectricity special layer (screenshare) 1:11:13 Harold Saxton Burr predicted this 100 years ago! 1:14:50 Connections to Zen Buddhism 1:18:18 Find more of Levin's work

@buttersnart Жыл бұрын

Stellar timestamping, thank you

@YeshuaGod22 Жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o8d4gLp9vc7PdHk.html

@billguschwan4112 11 ай бұрын

52:36 “Expanding horizon enables shannon information to acquire meaning Because data becomes casually linked to distant and past experiences and acquires implications for future expectations” - Chris Fields

@marcus8710 7 ай бұрын

Above that statement is the invisible thing which remembers What happened, not just how it felt chemically through the system. Wow.

@MrChaluliss Жыл бұрын

Michael Levin is one of those real earth shakers in my mind. The ideas he is formalizing within fairly rigorous scientific frameworks have been floating around different cultural spheres for some time, so seeing some larger scale traction, and real rigor being applied to those ideas is quite inspiring to me.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Agreed, Tanner! Expecting to have him on soon for round 2!

@KipIngram 6 ай бұрын

Yes, Dr. Levin is doing incredibly meaningful work. I'm g oing to be very surprised if he's not an eventual Nobel Prize winner. He just seems headed that way to me.

@KipIngram 6 ай бұрын

Dr. Levin does much more than "repeat old experiments." The earlier work was wonderful - I certainly don't mean to imply otherwise. But Dr. Levin is taking into the real of actually achievements (well, that's what I am expecting will happen, anyway). You're certainly entitled to have your opinion about the work - it's every bit as valid as mine. But I think the man who first works out how to let a child who loses an arm in a tragic accident grow a new one will absolutely deserve a Nobel prize. The amount of suffering his total success could remove from the world is staggering.

@kerry-ch2zi Жыл бұрын

1:05:00 "Drugs and words have the same mechanism of action." Thank you Michael Levin! Everyone who has felt like giving up on HOW will be enriched by this ideas.

@0ptimal Жыл бұрын

I learn so much every time I listen to him. Such a treat. Him talking about how the cells rebuilding the limb, (larger scale structure) do not know that they are building it, they're only reacting to a state of stress. Makes me wonder if we are a part of something similar. Like our instincts, drives, stresses, if they are a driver for some bigger process, much bigger than us that we can't fathom. Fun to ponder..

@lorimillim9131 Жыл бұрын

😮

@reclusiarchgrimaldus1269 Жыл бұрын

We exist to serve God

@JzL4ShzL Жыл бұрын

It's often called the human enterprise

@marcomoreno6748 Жыл бұрын

@@reclusiarchgrimaldus1269how confident are you in that?

@reclusiarchgrimaldus1269 Жыл бұрын

@@marcomoreno6748 Very confident

@oliviergoethals4137 6 ай бұрын

Levin is a gift to humanity. Thx.

@donfields1234 Жыл бұрын

Micheal Levin is one of the greatest minds of our time, such humility and so well spoken... to be his student would be such an honor... of which I am through his talks/interviews anyhow

@alvinashagarwal3939 Жыл бұрын

His ‘consciousness cone’ is an idea that’s at least 40 years old that he is selling as his own..

@konosmgr Жыл бұрын

@@alvinashagarwal3939 Do you know who spearheaded it?

@Bathing_in_NOISE 11 ай бұрын

@@konosmgrwell it’s related to Henri Bergson’s work on consciousness and memory which was done 100 years ago but what Ben is doing here is still new. He’s integrating philosophical notions of intelligence into scientifically testable hypotheses and producing results that define the specific relationality between disparate systems of intelligence. The philosophy may not be new but his application and pairing with biological, computational, and physical models certainly is.

@Bathing_in_NOISE 6 ай бұрын

@cameroncameron2826 I could try to tell you about all the novel studies Levin is conducting through HIS lab, like for Cancer research for instance, or why philosophy should be used to structure innovation in science and how Levin’s use of the pragmatic method accomplishes this transition wonderfully, but I’m sure it would fall on deaf and irritable ears. I’m sorry you’ve reached a point in your life where you fail to see the new in the world and feel the need to discredit/deflate other people’s accomplishments. Wish you well.

@bradsillasen1972 Ай бұрын

@@alvinashagarwal3939 Every successful scientist stands on the shoulders of giants, i.e., greatness is scalable.

@DavidConnerCodeaholic Жыл бұрын

From the paper: "A dog has much more temporal memory, some forward prediction ability, and a degree of spatial concern. However, it is likely impossible for a dog’s cognitive apparatus to operate with notions about what is going to happen next month or in the adjacent town." The imprint that evolution has left on a dog's sense of time (and indeed, most mammals especially those with longer noses) circumvents much of the need for memory, since cause/effect are encoded into what the dog smells. The anatomy of their nose allows their olfactory nerves (the oldest of the cranial nerves) to roughly sort the molecules by particle size. A dog that is skilled at using their nose will snort and otherwise use the mechanics of the air that it's sampling to alter the composition of scents. This would allow a dog to modulate patterns of olfactory activation to extract more information and, perhaps to some extent, the sequences in which scents were laid down. This far into our "advanced" stage of evolution -- or perhaps into the terminal stage of evolution -- humans confidently think that we are the only ones who can understand time and cause/effect... but can't dogs, mammals and other animals predict change in season? In fact, wouldn't quite a few things about the world be so obvious to animals that cognition to predict these things wouldn't need to be so deep? If you could smell the hoarfrost underfoot, would you need a calendar or even the stars to know how much time you needed to prepare for winter? If the full moon so dramatically changes the outcome and difficulty of a wolf pack's hunting, would it care to know how hungry it will be at night?

@DavidConnerCodeaholic Жыл бұрын

Interesting ideas. It's quite interesting how many people treated me like garbage when all I see on youtube now is similar people developing similar ideas. I guess I never published or collaborated with anyone, but that's because anyone who barely understood what I was writing (e.g. academics with ... degrees?), ignorantly programmed other people to assume I was crazy. So I was alienated. I never got any feedback on anything and I've been humiliated my whole life.

@DavidConnerCodeaholic Жыл бұрын

Of course my writing wasn't great and almost nothing is truly novel. But yeh, this guy works with dozens of other people on his own ideas every day for work, whereas I struggle to find a single person to discuss things with who won't flee the conversation -- leaving me more alienated than I was before. Do you or your guest or any of these youtubers know how that feels?

@dominicsey3032 Жыл бұрын

@@DavidConnerCodeaholic it's tough but there is a way. Maybe start a blog and KZfaq and share your ideas. You'll form a community

@DavidConnerCodeaholic Жыл бұрын

@@dominicsey3032 Thank you Dominic. Best of luck in your journey as well.

@DavidConnerCodeaholic Жыл бұрын

@@peterjohnstoltzman no, that’s an illustration from Chrono Cross, the sequel to Chrono Trigger. The first game is a time traveling RPG and the second involves resolving the resulting multiverse paradox. They’re both great games, but most people have only played the first one. It’s a bit hard to explain, but the final boss from the first one (lavos) could be a metaphor for AI since the game’s dialogue implies that it results from the culmination of human culture and technology which it then renders meaningless (a nihilist apocalypse). Anyways, the games are a bit deeper than it seems on the surface.

@fullreactionband Жыл бұрын

He should be getting a Nobel. Outstanding work. Thank you for all you do Michael

@patrickneedham7915 Жыл бұрын

It seems to me that the collective rate of evolution of individual consciousness is evolving rapidly in our world. The very baseline of humanity is incrementally becoming more and more mortally aligned with something that can only be described as "all". The next few decades are going to be radically bright.

@tixch2000 10 ай бұрын

Love the Bodhisattva link. That makes the whole pitch coherent and meaningful for us humans. Thank you for this interview.

@tixch2000 6 ай бұрын

@cameroncameron2826 Border between matter/biology/mind is very fuzzy indeed. Spirituality just adds up as a the recovery of wholeness that humans have lost since industrial so-called revolution.

@tixch2000 6 ай бұрын

@cameroncameron2826 Somehow agree. Levine's work is undoubtedly amazing. Going beyond our limited mind is a risky road that has no end and we are prone to get lost (in paradoxes) on the way anyway. However, the fact that science is now reaching a point where it is getting hard to test (especially physics) it is very positive that it starts again to ask more profound questions about the whole game of life, consciousness, our place in the universe and so on. And this is a healthy path I believe.

@tixch2000 6 ай бұрын

@cameroncameron2826 Would you then suggest that all is in our mind? Just a bunch of ideas that has nothing to do with any ontological reality except our thoughts (which might be the only ontology)? This would resonate with Bernardo and Advaitists and the like don't you think?

@pjaworek6793 Жыл бұрын

What a treat for a Saturday! Move over other videos, new Levin stuff is on. Thanks again Carlos!

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks P! Hope you enjoyed it. =)

@amaryllisfrost4263 Жыл бұрын

Very refreshing to see a cognitive model based on competence and goals, tangible metrics that can be measured and validated.

@KG-we6by 4 ай бұрын

Isn’t this just the Akasha principle rebranded ?

@srikarpamidi1946 Жыл бұрын

Just found your channel and instantly subscribed! Dr. Levin’s work is some of the most groundbreaking stuff I’ve ever read

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Srikar! Agreed, Levin is a boss.

@marutanray Жыл бұрын

I personally like his work on the planarium worms. truly eye opening. jaw dropping.

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

34 min Stress as the state of just being. Understanding the state of just being is what science has missed. Great insight...would love to expand more on how things work and the emergence of new systems manifests from the older systems just being in harmony...

@Swade-kf5vw Жыл бұрын

What a fascinating topic. It’s hard to find Levins content other than his usual presentations, so I’m glad i came across your interview.

@Swade-kf5vw 6 ай бұрын

@cameroncameron2826 yes 😊

@williamjmccartan8879 Жыл бұрын

It's always good to hear other people discussing Michael and his teams work, the way he makes sure that he acknowledges others in his field. Thank you both for a great conversation. Peace

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks William!

@ajsindri2 Жыл бұрын

wow, you are suddenly interviewing all of my favorite people

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Lao. Who else should I interview?

@trombone7 Жыл бұрын

@@Carlos.Explains I agree. And right on the heels of the Donald Hoffman interview. It would be cool if you gave Michael and Donald a couple weeks to explore one another's work and then host an informal chat. Esp if you prepare a couple topics or questions of your own and maybe preselect a couple questions from your viewers.

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

47min Every cell is complete in itself and a part of the bigger system and that is the existential reality.... That simple😊😊 Amazing observation

@euclidofalexandria3786 Жыл бұрын

the public's mind... 🙂 thank you for posting, and giving your time. excellent talk.

@KeyJsu Жыл бұрын

Dr. Michael Levin, you are my hero.

@evdm7482 Жыл бұрын

I would love to hear more, thanks for each of you taking the time

@Natty183 7 ай бұрын

The Zimbabwean philosophy that Nelson Mandela made famous, Ubuntu, posits, "I am what I am because of what we all are," and it is consilient knowledge. I love this so much. So beautiful. Also, no one else understands this, I have to remember.

@antiprismatic Жыл бұрын

Wowza! So amazing. I love the simplicity.

@Mustachioed_Mollusk Жыл бұрын

Awesome! I'd love to find communities of people interested in these types of discussions.

@acidbubbles419 Жыл бұрын

@gioacchinodangelo426 Жыл бұрын

@IntrinsicMinds yt channel has these types of discussions as of late. This is golden for bridging many gaps

@jeffbrownstain Жыл бұрын

🤯 This is exactly the updates to our field that I needed this week.

@bodnarism Жыл бұрын

There’s some thinking here that triggered the same excitement I felt reading a book by Manuel DeLanda called ‘a thousand years of non linear history’ - I can’t recommend that book enough.

@pikiwiki Жыл бұрын

What ideas. What explanations. Astounding

@HeronMarkBlade Жыл бұрын

loving your channel dude, many thanks for putting out this excellent content.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@cragnog Жыл бұрын

Well finding this channel just now has been quite a treat. Definitely will be following Michael and you from this point onward. Thanks for the fascinating interview!

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Cragnog!

@S.G.Wallner Жыл бұрын

It was cool that you focused on Levin's work on the self. I haven't seen as much discussion around those topics. Very interesting conversation. I'd be interested to hear more from him about how information theory can be applied (usefully or not usefully) to complex biological systems.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks S.G.! My plan was to use the paper as a guiding outline to touch on a bunch of his work. We spent more time on it, and specifically the stress component, than I intended. But since it's not generally covered in his other interviews, hopefully it's useful to folks. :)

@geegnomes Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video! Michael Levin might be a new favorite person of mine

@ConnoisseurOfExistence Жыл бұрын

Absolutely fascinating!

@jamesralston5293 Жыл бұрын

The bit about reconseptualizing our moral basis really resonated with me. This is worldview stuff.

@juancarloshernandez4749 Жыл бұрын

Loved this video. Thank you to and Michael Levin.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Juan! Will have him on again in about a month. 😀

@JzL4ShzL Жыл бұрын

This video was a rare treat offered up by the YT algorithm. I wasn't quite sure what to make of the topic or your channel overall, but I'm glad a ran a few cursory searches and took a chance watching the interview. The insight regarding cancer cells vs their relation to the rest of the body as an example of changing perspective was profound, as was the idea of bringing them back into the fold so to speak. I certainly hope to see another video with Dr. Levin in the future as well as some of the collaborators mentioned throughout the video to dive further into these fascinating subjects. Until then, I'll be sure to comb through your past interviews.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jz!

@sherrybutts5947 5 ай бұрын

Could a trauma use thought to cause a cell to break away from its collective sense of self and focus totally on one idea such as a disease thereby just multiplying the belief of that disease thereby cutting its self off from its own body and its systems

@sherrybutts5947 5 ай бұрын

Yes his cancer perspective seems right on!!!

@betel1345 Жыл бұрын

stunning conversation. so many insights

@rotarolla1 Жыл бұрын

Awareness of awareness, to focus without a voice for a sustained period. You won't understand being if you have to resort to mental effort and its impressive pictures

@pointer333 Жыл бұрын

Please, more of this guy!

@collegephysicsforeveryone7744 Жыл бұрын

Means let go of the scale to understand it. We perceive the scale difference to interplay with each other, however once you see the scale you start to understand the way to move through it and understand it is all the same. This guy gets it!

@TheDeepening718 Жыл бұрын

The boundary of a self is the edge of its free agency. If that free agency is not there, then there's no person.

@billyblim1213 Жыл бұрын

Surprisingly original ideas!

@davidball8794 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Carlos, Thanks Michael! Smart Stuff! Appreciated. D from Scotland.

@gammaraygem Жыл бұрын

The Mother.1981. A student of her wrote "The Mind of the Cells". On her endeavour to instruct cells to no longer die. With huge amounts of love.Not only for herself, but for humanity. Goal driven...what is the goal? We decide it. It has been decided, for us. Immortality. Freedom. Love. Joy. Light. Power.

@geraldleuven169 Жыл бұрын

lol

@SaintMatthieuSimard Жыл бұрын

24:34 Seems like he agrees with me. The way I describe this situation is this: I compare it to the movie Ford V Ferrari, with Henri Ford commemorated in it. When the character played by Christian Bale takes him for a ride in the current time's fastest car, he said "I wish my father was here to see where we are at today!". "This is evolution, baybeh!" Every species is a bullet in time that lasts forever for as long as it procreates. They're the hero of their own story and they make their ancestors proud. At some point, we share ancestors with so many species, even arthropods. We all have the symmetry gene, for example.

@Nathan-eq3zs Жыл бұрын

I just watched the first part but yeah the idea is totally sound. I've been thinking a lot about our senses. Our senses detect echoes which is how we locate things in time and space with ourselves as an origin point. Cool shit, glad to see people talking about it.

@jedediahbeaman7989 5 ай бұрын

Love this! Thanks guys 😊

@maxdepthpodcast Жыл бұрын

gained a new sub! extremely intelligent questions. definitely setting the bar high for us interviewers

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Awesome to hear, Max! Thank you, very kind!

@TheIgnoramus Жыл бұрын

All is one. One is all. Scale is relative, only to the scale of the consciousness is reality perceived. Elegant, and something I think we’ve always known, but can’t express.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Well expressed, APJ!

@puntedhat5025 Жыл бұрын

This man is blowing my mind with his words

@MikeG1111_ Жыл бұрын

I'm only 28 minutes in so far, and this fascinating conversation is already expanding my concept of cognition. When Michael Levin mentions cognitive systems spread out so widely on the scale of time and/or space that we may not initially recognize them as such, it immediately made me think of intelligence on a planetary, solar, galactic or even universal scale. Of course, the next step from there is expanding the scale out to infinity which I imagine would probably exceed the boundary of individual selves or things and lead us straight to a non-dualistic singularity. But I'm getting ahead of myself... Time to get back to the interview! Update: Okay, finished. The stress and surprise and morphogenetic field discussion and Zen reference towards the end definitely piqued my interest. Looking forward to more!

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

More coming in a few days!

@DougMayhew-ds3ug 5 ай бұрын

One of my toy computer sims had swarms of random walkers, but also made to clone each other towards a gradient, while taking the average gradient vector of all members of a swarm, to pull a parent particle around the 2d gradient terrain. It is just like a chariot with a team of horses, but the horses are imbued with random walk to some degree, which keeps them far enough apart to have a different point of view, and attraction to a positive or negative gradient center, attracted to peaks of a mountain range or a low points in a valley via relative comparison or slope. I dropped several teams of these chariots with horses into the terrain, and it gives you a shared knowledge advantage, all the walkers are averaged to decide where to pull the chariot and perhaps how hard to accelerate it if you like spirals, lol. It’s similar to the Monte Carlo approach, And wasn’t my idea, but I toyed with it quite a bit. Your point about integrating different points of view is valid to a degree. There’s always the opposite case where everyone agrees, but they’re all wrong like popular opinion, or in the case of one-mindedness where going right for the goal, even as a swarm, sometimes isn’t the right answer, like a flock of birds getting sucked into an aircraft engine all at once, or like the monkey with a hand stuck in the jar, for such a system to evolve any further, there needs to be something that spills over, or alarms, when the greedy behavior terminates in a repeatable dead end. I will try to figure out how to avoid the latter, So far, the only option seems to be to randomize what it’s stuck on, shake it up, so a new local universe gets a chance to develop in it’s place. Each

@3_y7Q_X2rP_s9K8 Жыл бұрын

Never thought of anthropomorphizing cells before. I like it

@waynewells2862 Жыл бұрын

New to your channel. Great job for your guidance in unpacking of Mike Levin's work!

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Welcome Wayne Wells!

@addisondraper6444 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this interview. I too am a huge fan of Mike L. following an initial exposure through Kurt J's interview with the bearded genius. When he publishes the summation of his work and gets nominated for a noble prize I am definitely going to vote for him as many times as I can (for free). Unfortunately, as an Italian American, I don't have much of a background in science either academically or working as a physicist. I just know he's right about all of it because I have sort of a sick sense about these things. Trust me. signed, Bob "the genius" DiPalermo

@Osky1111 Жыл бұрын

Yes it definitely just "feels" true.

@georgegill8225 7 ай бұрын

Stumbled from Ross Hatton's spider web sensor to Levin's Cognitive cones. Great minds.

@sethrasky68 Жыл бұрын

Great talk !

@WalterSamuels Жыл бұрын

Pity this wasn't longer. Really wanted to hear more, especially about the relationship to AI and AGI. Thanks for sharing!

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

There’s a round 2 published, and round 3 is coming soon!

@WalterSamuels Жыл бұрын

@@Carlos.Explains Incredible! Thanks so much, diving into round 2 now. Also see a TON of other incredible content on your channel, so I'm subbed now. I would love to hear his thoughts about how he thinks the biological principles he's discovered could be applied to the creation of AGI, if you're willing to entertain that theme of discussion for your next interview (if it's not already talked about in your second one, checking that out now).

@Meditation409 Жыл бұрын

This was VERY IMPRESSIVE!! GREAT CONTENT. 👍 ❤

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

THANKS AL!

@Meditation409 Жыл бұрын

Your very very welcome!! ❤

@DougMayhew-ds3ug 5 ай бұрын

The scaling up of capability by memory erasure from docking cells sharing an “erase” or inhibitor on memory, wow. You are deep. Reminds me of the historical significance of zero in the number system; it’s not any particular dynamic, it’s the non-existent thing or boundary. Erasing memory erases the boundaries of the dynamic that was there before. In some sense this is stunningly simple and elegant,. Now I am starting to hunt for other occurrences of this “wiping memory” in other contexts. The nonlinear impulse might just have found its useful opposite, like it’s zero.

@brentthomasaustin Жыл бұрын

One of the biggest differentials in the field of technology applications is finding a common descriptor for “intelligence” systems that can be used in all fields. Michael Levins light cones design more fleshed out I think is capable of producing something similar to angle and arc notation for a universal geometry. It will be fascinating to see how all of this develops, especially in light of AGI.

@ChristianSt97 Жыл бұрын

great!!

@leighneal8989 Жыл бұрын

What is the relationship between Levins cellular cognition and Hameroffs microtubules producing intracellular cognition?

@publicspace234 Жыл бұрын

KZfaq reccomended and I’m glad to find the work. You should loosen up and practice more interviews.

@masonleesummerhill 3 ай бұрын

I like the idea of cognitive lightcones because it gives us a way to assign responsibility and/or intention to a certain predefined organism over spatial and temporal scales, but it does seem a bit arbitrary. The definition of what constitutes a goal can vary widely. For instance, does a plant's growth towards light count as pursuing a goal in the same way a human planning their career does? Quantifying the spatial and temporal scope of an organism's goals involves interpretation and might not capture the full range of its capacities or intentions. For example, we might underestimate the cognitive abilities of animals due to a lack of understanding of their communication methods. Also, cognitive light cones can grow or shrink depending on the state of development of the organism in question. Also, the concept doesn't fully account for the interdependent nature of ecosystems, where the actions of one organism impact the goals and survival of another. A concept which is less dependent on the idea of a "here and now" would be more effective at capturing these shortcomings. perhaps something like "liquid lightcones" where the dynamic and adaptive nature of cognitive processes in biological organisms and their interactions within ecosystems are taken into account? and maybe the principle of superposition and entanglement could be useful? A Liquid Lightcone that exists in multiple states simultaneously. I like Michael levin's research, but his rate of speech and confidence level have always been a bit suspicious to me.

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

59min Beautifully explained cancer cells 🙏🙏🙏🙏

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

39 min The equilibrium state is when all the cells are all content and that is when there is festivity... And that leads to manifestation and emergence of the new more complicated system. This could be a better way of explaining this whole concept can be more palatable and plausible 🙏🙏🙏🙏

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

6min The holistic existential reality is the way forward for humanity, 🙏🙏verywellsaid

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Anand!

@jteichma Жыл бұрын

Thanks Carlos and Mike. Fascinating discussion and great insights. 59.38 I can’t help seeing this scale to society and mass shooters being incredibly isolated from the collective (like cancer cells in society).

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks John. I agree, that seems like an apt (and of course, tragic) analogy.

@sifromwales5452 Жыл бұрын

Biology, Buddhism and AI.... thank you so much :)

@matthewcrane5516 11 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@Carlos.Explains 11 ай бұрын

Thank you Matthew! Much appreciated 😀

@SaintMatthieuSimard Жыл бұрын

It's a really cool concept and it totally makes sense. I'd say it's a good form of "4D representation". It's like the boundaries of a 4D cube.

@andrejvukovic9893 9 ай бұрын

Around 1:12:00, there's a discussion of the idea that man is a machine. La Mettrie was extending the earlier idea of Descartes that animals are machines. That idea may have been inspired by mechanical automata, toys which were designed to move like living things and were collected by wealthy Europeans in the early modern era in "cabinets of curiosities". Descartes likely saw these in Prague Castle (the Habsburg Holy Roman Emperors collected them), which he entered after the Battle of White Mountain. A classic history book about this is Frances Yates's 1972 work "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment".

@HeCedTooMuch Жыл бұрын

In general, I've generalized intelligence as a measure of how many concepts or ideas you can hold in your mind at the same time. When complex concepts or novel ideas come up in conversation, it's only with the smartest people that really understand or add to the conversation. The ability to comprehend all of the elements involved to approach the topic are necessary to crystallize into the deeper or novel ideas. I don't simply mean knowing lot of facts, but holding all of the facts/ideas needed ones mind at the same time to see the new ones.

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

14.2 The cognitive capacity of human being is to be used to understand the coexistence of the formless the invisible and the form of all that exists...

@heath3546 7 ай бұрын

Im thinking about humans and your statement , about giving up your identity and merging with the collective for higher powers. Whatever they are. I think there’s an awakening that’s going on in the world and it’s been going on for some time, but it seems to be accelerating with access to information regarding psychedelics and spirituality and the ancient indigenous wisdom of our ancestors. I totally agree with the systems and diverse intelligence, and I think my journeys inside of myself, I’ve seen everything you described. It is so beautiful. I see it more of a kingdom and many kingdoms surrounding it and then other -communities , including alien looking x infinity possibly. I think everyone set up differently. I would imagine we all have our particular conditioned metaphors inside of us they have their appropriate meanings. Meaning, each person has different visions of what they experience inside themselves I think We can clearly see that what’s inside of ourselves is projected out and we have a lot of conflict within ourselves and that’s why there’s increasing crime, prisons , wars strife and Division and rising mental illness. Actually, the country with the highest rise of mental illness and suicide is in America. We are the leader in technology, and we are the canary in the coal mine at the same time. The spiritual awakening of knowing that we are much more than we think in this current materialistic society, and if we can find new identities That are more transformative as we are , and the universe is. A sense that we are all connected and that there before you I go. Also, nature is us, and we’re not separate from nature. If enough, people awaken, and we can share in common spiritual identity. In a Psychedelic study on the experience , it was said that 95% of the people or more felt they had experienced ultimate reality or God energy. When they looked closer at the study and the shared characteristics of the two, they were the same. If enough people realize that there is a God or an ultimate reality, way beyond what they know right now we could possibly come to a new collective intelligent understanding of ourselves, and then who knows from there.

@john_says_hi Жыл бұрын

Good info!

@Self-Duality Жыл бұрын

Subscribed!

@laurakelly631 Жыл бұрын

such a wonderful interview! Thank you. Ps: I would like to hear him play those bongos y djembe in the corner.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Laura! I'll see if he can oblige for round 2. 😀

@euclidofalexandria3786 Жыл бұрын

think about the complexity thresholds and the "flavor's of randomness" that will happen when chaos theory is fully integrated into mathematics and physics as well. physics will give quite a good domain where this new type of semi deterministic probability can occur, since it has issues with rpobability aspects like renormilization and such...

@dunebuggy1292 Жыл бұрын

If our individual parts have agendas, how does that comport with the idea that we're a collective intelligence? Should the emergent construct break apart? When we cut pieces of our brain, it still functions quite normally.

@StealthTheUnknown Жыл бұрын

The individual agendas are in unison because of their entanglement with one-another. That was talked about here, how the bioelectric coupling of all the cells in a network results in a kind of dissolution of individual identity.

@Censeo Жыл бұрын

I think our cells aren't there to help us or work against us. The reason most of them help us is because their existence could only come about through helping the host reproduce. That's why the majority of our cells arent cancerous. And they have made us very smart too. But they don't share our goals, but they created our goals nevertheless

@aidanjohnwalsh2129 7 ай бұрын

I made it to 17 minutes and I'm taking a pause. I might go back a bit because I caught myself on a tangent about the physical eyeball having three qualities, filtering, focusing and capturing light, and then the faculty of sight having the qualities of attention, attachment and memory, with attachment being of either negative, positive or neutral polarity, these then provocative of movement away or towards, or not, the goal being to acquire this, avoid that, or ignore it.

@cmans777 6 ай бұрын

All Is One. One Is All. Fifteen minutes in and I am reminded of an old idea that the higher the degree of intelligence someone posesses the higher the level of empathy they possess. To the point that a truly intelligent/potentiated individual has the ability to see reality through perspectives other than their own. With the way Everything is connected it would make perfect sense that humans moving up in the energy grid would correlate with us raising our ability to connect with eachother. With Schumann resonances, solar flares, and geo magnetic/techtonic activity up the wazoo maybe Mother Earth just needs someone to talk to! Interconnectedness is the way.

@intotheunknown4466 Жыл бұрын

I’ve only gotten part way through but one of the immediate questions that came up is what is the supposed “I” or “us” that is not part of the networks that make the feeling and sensing body mind

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

1.13min Being grateful to people and being humble makes the most of your knowledge 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

@ericphantri96734 Жыл бұрын

It is not about nagivating intelligent but motivation and goal each one are defined by will and awakening

@michaelm1573 Жыл бұрын

I didn't know Mr. Beast was running a lab full of scientists. Dude gets so much done in a day. Impressive AF.

@kahunablinginz6838 Жыл бұрын

Too funny 😊😂😊😂

@Jimmy-el2gh Жыл бұрын

Thankyou it's automatic

@petevenuti7355 Жыл бұрын

My ex wife use to call me Poindexter when I got my haircut like that...

@lorimillim9131 Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂

@nickidaisydandelion4044 Жыл бұрын

He doesn't look that much like Mr. Beast.

@SaintMatthieuSimard Жыл бұрын

1:04:34 I'm eager for the moment we can prolongate life like that. And if we can rejuvenate our elders then we'll be even more knowledgeable, long term, and maybe learn how to exit move elsewhere in our galaxy and beyond, even thought it's probably improbable unless we learn to fold space or find a glitch in the logic that is surrounding us.

@StephenPaulKing Жыл бұрын

Is there a general mechanism for fixing the "set point"?

@bad1970muts Жыл бұрын

Hi Michael, you are right there are many more roads that lead to Rome. The Simulation Hypothesis assumes that consciousness can only be created by computation and thus excludes all other possibilities that are uncomputable. The Anti-Simulation Hypothesis states that since there may be infinitely many other possibilities for consciousness to emerge, the probability of living in a simulation is close to zero.

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

22min Very correctly stated that the body as a whole is a system and within that system we have many systems going upto the bacteria in the gut . The brain is just another system. The soul or the life atom is the one that understands and has cognition. This is what seperates from the body when we call it not as a human being but a human body. That being is permanent and would love to share the structural ontology and it's functioning of the invisible life atom😊

@nicholassauer2612 Жыл бұрын

As much as I believe soul exists, the problem science has with that conception is that you can't study it in the lab. Would need to develop some type of instrumentation that can make those ultra high frequency, higher dimensional energies visible or measurable in some way for science to take it seriously. But then you have the fundamental philosophic problem of the chicken or the egg. How would you develop a device with those capabilities if you dont even believe it exists? Even the scientists that believe in a soul dont think its a scientific pursuit.

@givemorephilosophy Жыл бұрын

@@nicholassauer2612 Science is something that needs to be redefined. Instead of making a machine that will see the soul we can look at the people dying and understand there is something that disconnects with the body that gives life. Any physical machine will be made of physical atoms only and that is not a prerequisite to validate the existence of soul . If this concept is clear then that is the next good step for Science. If you would like to engage in a dialogue that will help I can set apart some time 🙏🙏

@KipIngram 6 ай бұрын

14:16 - Well, not attainable by you. But some goals are not and will never be obtainable by any one person within a single lifetime; that automatically brings into existence "progress goals," some of which can be realistically attained by a single person. Even just inspiring others to care about such a goal is progress toward it. I absolutely think we should be in the early thinking steps of leaving the planet, even though we might not actually try to do it for thousands of years.

@danscieszinski4120 Жыл бұрын

Damn. Lots of good nuggets here. Throw in a dash of attractor theory in an E8➡️♾️ framework and your on your way to defining quantum gravity.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Thanks Dan! Yeah, I plan to do something on attractors in the future. 😀

@danscieszinski4120 Жыл бұрын

Want to collaborate? I’ve been thinking about GR and the omni dimensional N sphere lattice model for 30 years. Spatial lattice deformation models do a perfect job weaving together parallel world history sheets and the transcendent spaces form a perfect bulk space to enable phenomenon like entanglement and a framework for quantized spacetime to squeeze and pinch in on itself, effectively making spacetime density gradients (geodesics). I’m not a quack. I’ve done my homework. I have drawing and modeling skills and love philosophy and the arts. I’ve watched your content and your light cone models naturally play with my vision. Things get damn near spooky when you wrestle with infinite abstraction by way of hyper geometry. But it seems to be what nature gives us. I’ve said my prayers and eaten my wheaties, but seriously, an observer based generative model of quantum gravity is falling into our lap. None too soon based on the headlines. Let me know.

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

@@danscieszinski4120 sounds interesting! Likely beyond my present understanding... do you have a website or papers you can share? And to clarify, the light cone model is Mike's work!

@danscieszinski4120 Жыл бұрын

@@Carlos.Explains haha! Realized that after I fell out of my stupor of fascination. I’m working on a visual narrative for my extension of GR. However the more I look around these media spaces the more I feel like we do have the pieces all uncovered in different competencies of diagram. We’re all basically trying to graph infinity, which has been a quest for as long as mathematicians realized they were geometers in disguise 😎🤙if my ideas get any traction maybe we’ll meet some day. ✌️

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

@@danscieszinski4120 Awesome, best of luck with the model!

@peterjohnstoltzman Жыл бұрын

Change the system as the ultimate lesson here…awesome. Re-set incentives, and individuals will voluntarily shift behaviors. I wonder what is the molecular biological analogy for the power brokers in a system who preserve status quo at all costs.

@Em0killer13 Жыл бұрын

This is great and all but what does he think about heylighen?

@jaysonscott187 Жыл бұрын

Holy crap. This guy is freakin cool as hell. (Tu quoque)

@Carlos.Explains Жыл бұрын

Agreed, Franklin! Having him on again in May. :)

@DougMayhew-ds3ug 5 ай бұрын

The spreading of stress in biology seems like it lowers the integrity of neighboring cells as itself weakens,, and in so doing, increases the openness of those cells to other arrangements. that’s a very interesting concept. There’s so many echoes of this in so many fields. The first one that came to mind, evil as it is, is the case of terrorism, where a terror event shakes people up so they’re more moldable to a new paradigm. Sheesh, horrible but makes sense. There’s this case of gradient descent, where they add randomness to bounce their values out of sub, optimum, minimum energy low-points. Even the case of like shaking, something, that’s become settled in layers, to homogenize it. Or the active slapping somebody in the face to make them “snap out of it.” It’s like the discontinuous impulse has a significance all its own. Looking at the continuum from strong fields with high integrity, to stochastic randomness, wushy washy. That’s funny it reminds me of Pat from Saturday Night Live! It’s a very interesting echo of your concept. Indeterminate at one extreme, rigid deterministic integrity or conformity to an organizing principle or rule or field, in the other extreme. On one hand, Integrity seems to be relative not to absolute value above the noise floor, but is inversely proportional to the difference between two or more fields at any given point in space, and their orientation. On the other hand, two weak fields, have a sensitive disposition to outside influences of other fields. In my computational sandbox, using 1/r squared, circularly bounded gradients (pointy mountain or valley in 3d) , how the field push each other around is relative to the difference between them, not the absolute value. Strong fields will produce the same combined field contour pattern as two weak fields, assuming orientation is consistent across comparisons. it takes less field strength to perturb weak fields than Strong fields. I played with computer models where this is possible to simulate in many ways. As you weaken a gradient from a peak towards flatness in the 3-D terrain-sense, by decreasing its value directly, or by interfering with each other, you get very interesting contour, maps that reflect the interaction of both overlapping singularities. These look very much like electric field shapes, and you get the sense of that continuum from high integrity, to random undecided, The middle ground is the most interesting, where it’s leaning towards organization, but not fully committed to one particular rule.

@atlast9796 Жыл бұрын

Do you have a place I could contact you? I'd like to discuss holonomic brain theory and related topics.

@MichaelJones-ek3vx 2 ай бұрын

Consciousness doesn't reside inside the brain. The brain acts like a filter filter of consciousness. Many converging Sciences are coming to this conclusion. Donald Hoffman Bernardo Kastrup are important thinkers this respect. With that caveat I really enjoy this and it sounds and feels right.