What does The Float Life think of VESC? An open chat with Jeff & Bodhi

Рет қаралды 7,482

Күн бұрын

#onewheel #vesc #futuremotion
On my last trip to ‪@TheFloatLife‬ shop I sat down with Jeff and Bodhi and asked their thoughts on VESC, its place in our Onewheel community and how they perceive it to be a potential competitor to Future Motion. Very interesting perspectives! I tried to speak less and let them share their opinions freely.
*Keep in mind this was filmed a few weeks ago and since then there has been a major breakthrough in the VESC firmware to resolve much of what Jeff was concerned on, and we're now working on features that Bodhi expressed interest in.* What do you guys think on the state of VESC?? Let us know!
Order your 'VESC' lil focer controller:
www.makerspev.com/collections...
Highlights to skip to:
00:00 Intro
02:30 Jeff & Bodhi's experience to date
07:40 Why Bodhi isn't riding a VESC?
08:57 The feature Jeff wants..
09:25 Drone market comparison
14:00 Engineering/hardware gurus like Dado et al helping to resolve issues and innovating!
14:34 Max's motivation for VESC
16:23 Does TFL's relationship with Future Motion affect their supporting of VESC?
18:24 Bodhi asks: how you get set up with VESC, and how is it 'legal'?
19:40 TFL supporting a direct competitor of FM?
20:45 Analogy of Burton Snowboards and their patents
21:52 Jeff - "it's not a zero sum game"
22:12 What would you guys think if FM put a C&D on VESC for Onewheel?
24:11 What did y'all think of "Dark Riding" mode?
24:50 Bodhi's Jesus flip on VESC next?
26:47 Ride modes on the horizon
28:10 Beginner friendly?
28:37 COMMUNITY QUESTIONS #1: Allowed in races?
31:57 Shoutout to Hannes!
32:42 Question #2: Will TFL still keep making XR accessories?
35:00 Bodhi has a mild seizure lol
35:38 Question #3: Does the Onewheel sport die if FM dies? Should it be called something else?
40:00 How to pronounce 'Hsia'
40:52 Next videos preview!
More FOCer (VESC) riding & entertainment:
/ maxxsend
Music:
Raise Your Shoes by Splasher!
R&R by Blue Steel
Different Type of Vibe by Matt Large
#onewheelxr #onewheelgt #righttorepair #onewheelnation #onewheeling #podcast #podcasting #competition

Пікірлер: 102

@thirtythreeeyes8624 Жыл бұрын

The FPV comparison is spot on. Also like FPV where DJI got the idea from a small open source community, Kyle at FM probably just used the instructable posted in 2008 instead of actually inventing the onewheel himself.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Agreed such a good analogy! Along with the snowboard and rollerblading comparison. 'History repeating itself' we'll see how they handle this looming competition..

@thirtythreeeyes8624 Жыл бұрын

@@zappyzane Ya I had seen Ben's but, didn't know about that coverage of it at the time. I mentioned the instructable because it literally gave step step how to build one including software and came out the exact time that Kyle says he started working on his. The creator of it actually gave Ben credit for the idea.

@zappyzane Жыл бұрын

@@thirtythreeeyes8624 Sure. The thing is to get discussion, especially notable people like Jeff and Bodhi, to say "FM holds patents" and not "FM invented" when talking about self-balancing single wheeled skateboards.

@thatguyjoel9885 Жыл бұрын

⁸

@nicoaleman Жыл бұрын

5:47 Jeff with the scary accurate predictions lmao. If you haven't seen the actual code for the game changing IMU Filter, it's actually pretty damn simple all things considered haha, crazy how much a difference it makes. Huge props to Mitch Lustig for cracking the code 🙏

@e5211 Жыл бұрын

what version of the firmware is it? 5.3?

@uyle5810 Жыл бұрын

Mitch is the guy with that magic line of code. I know this was filmed before that change but he’s been lacking on some well deserved credit for a while.

@auden_builds Жыл бұрын

i agree, he has not gotten the deserved gratitude

@notsure6070 Жыл бұрын

he should have his own plushie!

@CM-bn1ri Жыл бұрын

Mitch for president!

@robertm7273 Жыл бұрын

I don’t have a one wheeled board but THANK YOU Mitch !!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

@magic_steve Жыл бұрын

Thank you to Mitch Lustig for the gift of the IMU filter that propelled vesc beyond FM firmware.

@ShiftedInterests Жыл бұрын

I never would have purchased a second OneWheel if it wasn’t for aftermarket and TFL. Jeff is 100% correct that aftermarket grows the OEM market.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

TFL has helped elevate this sport, community and riding experience to such unprecedented levels. Cheers to the continued innovation!

@adam-qd5xx Жыл бұрын

Vesc has been a staple of the diy esk8 community for years now. The open source format has allowed continuous incremental improvements. Really excited the vesc has been adapted to Onewheel

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

so blessed to have vesc for ow, the progress in the last 6 months has been exponential! fm has no choice but to up their game, quicker.

@bluefrog12345 Жыл бұрын

I built my first electric longboard in 2016 with a vesc and it was fantastic having it available. I was in Korea for a year and didn't have a car, so that was my car for a year and it went great

@eBoard3R Жыл бұрын

⚡ *VESC is the Real motion of the future* 👀⚡ Great points made by everyone

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Love what you did there 😂 appreciate ur support bro💙

@VXwheel Жыл бұрын

Thanks to Max for putting this together, I love the DIY onewheel community and where VESC is going. Nice thoughts! The only thing TFL might not have realised is how fast the progress of VESC currently is! Thanks for the shoutout Bodhi and I'll do my best to bring my next generation VXwheel3 to the states asap. If you liked VX2 you'll love VXwheel3. 84V, TFL parts compatible and legal to fly :)

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Hell yea dude glad ur part of the movement! Progress is happening rapidly, I'd say it's past fm tech now. Love what you're doing with the battery/transportation mods, stoked to see the v3 next time.

@Kevin-Schmevin Жыл бұрын

"schwacked out" nice word Bodhi, I'm going to use that...

@wayofflow955 Жыл бұрын

Max great work helping push vesc ahead! Future motion will always be in business as long as skateboarding and snowboarding riders. They want to grab the biggest market, beginner to intermediate riders. I feel more advanced rider will move to vesc as time passes. FM innovation is just too slowly.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Much love dude! Now with all the new settings and firmware updates, vesc is more accessible to even more intermediate/advanced riders. Why wait for fm innovation when they're already behind 😬

@RTAMOTORSPORTS Жыл бұрын

That could have been a podcast that was an awesome conversation especially for someone like me with an XR that won't sell ...and I've been kind of thinking about dipping my toes in the vesc world with it thank u guys

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Appreciate the support! Vesc is the ultimate way to upgrade the xr. Hope u can try it someday 🎵⚡

@drumstickscarecrow Жыл бұрын

I like the idea of Vesc and totally support the evolution of that. On the flipside, I probably won't ever build/program one myself. Much like FPV drones, I enjoy flying them but can't get into building or programming. Out of the 20+ drones I've had, only one of them operated on Betaflight, and I never tweaked with it beyond changing one motor setting. I'll take a prebuilt rig with presets any day over going the whole DIY route.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Totally hear ya man! Up until about a month ago vesc still wasn't truly plug and play with both hardware and software. Now almost everything is dialed in where you can have a turn-key set up. You will however still have to take the time to learn the functionality of some parameters if you wish to further customize the base settings. Definitely more accessible to intermediate/advanced riders. When you're ready, you can learn more at pev.dev 🤙🏻

@BlownMacTruck Жыл бұрын

Keep in mind that open source stuff isn't just about DIY; sure, you can do that. But open source unlocks the ability for anyone, from an individual all the way up to a giant worldwide company, to utilize the same source. All the improvements that hit the project can be picked up by everyone else (it's required by the licensing). This enables exponentially rapid evolution of the project - way more than a single, isolated group can do behind closed doors. That's why VESC has proceeded from totally unusable to better than stock (and probably preferred in the future) in a very short period of time. What that means for someone who DOESN'T want to DIY it is that someone else, including FM themselves, can build and package OneWheel and OneWheel-like devices, provide customer support, parts, and warranties, and you can benefit by buying it… knowing it will never be inaccessible or locked out to you in any way.

@colebrooks2237 Жыл бұрын

Awesome to hear the OGs opinions.

@sdmods619 Жыл бұрын

Stoked for the PintX love though. Mini Enduro, Platypus, etc. Planning on VESCing my og Pint and hope GT40 still works with it.

@troyvtuttle Жыл бұрын

Great video Max, good discussion, tons of great questions! 🤙🔥

@surfdado Жыл бұрын

jesus flip: can't you just start riding your board backwards so you land controller first when upside down?

@surfdado Жыл бұрын

or you can do it starting upside down aka the dark jesus flip ;)

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

If you try to flip the board with sensor pad in the rear, it makes the board flip in an extra quirky way. However the dark Jesus flip sounds pretty legit!

@LAVolAndy Жыл бұрын

Future Motion could do a “certified accessory” program & make a bit of coin while keeping their vision in place.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

You would think that's the rational, smart thing to do. Along with certified repair shops. But they never get it, only that they have a patent.

@robertm7273 Жыл бұрын

I don’t have a one wheeled board but THANK YOU !!!! Mitch 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

hope you can try vesc one day soon!!

@notsure6070 Жыл бұрын

fantastic!

@BillyShredder Жыл бұрын

My Vesc runs off Moonshine and Pure Gnar Energy! Shred the synth, it is the Future!

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

It's here now, and only gettin better! It does runs better with a splash of moonshine

@suburbansage Жыл бұрын

great interview! love the whole convo. chill, honest and positive energy throughout. so funny regarding your last name pronouncing lolll. i remember the TFL olympics video of them going OFF on butchering your name for comedic relief haha it was hilarious. but hey, as a fellow asian i deeply respect it all from how you say it to what it means.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

much love for the support my dude! it's hilarious how everyone will find all the possible ways to mispronounce my name, and rarely ever hit the right accent lol. I'm sure on the next olympics it'll be deja vu all over again haha

@EASTRIDE Жыл бұрын

Awesome Max ❤

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Thanks! 🙌🏻

@moonmorth Жыл бұрын

vesc sound really interesting. Is there a way to lock the board so that none of these more dangerous settings can be implemented? I only wonder because it's the holiday season. And some parents are DIY kind of people. Looking for interesting projects/gifts for their kids.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Great question! Vesc is indeed a super fun diy/tinkering project, but definitely not meant for beginners, kids or to be taken lightly. There needs to be many hours invested into learning what the parameters mean and how they affect the ride. Changing a value by 0.1 incorrectly could mean you get thrown off the board while riding unexpectedly. However, 2 redeeming features: you are able to lock your board with your phone so others can't modify your settings, and currently there are really great base settings that can be pre-configured to give you a nice riding experience without adjusting anything.

@quinnfoster1234 Жыл бұрын

The VESC app is behind a PayPal so if you don't have that and only floatcontrol it should be more foolproof. Then use USB to PC for updates.

@MikeDIY Жыл бұрын

For racing, they should have a max watts limiter set based on the rider's weight.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Interesting! This would really balance out the field, especially for us heavier guys 180lbs+ However it'd be super tough to enforce.. Now we gotta do weigh-ins in our undies pre-race like boxing/mma? 😄🥊

@MikeDIY Жыл бұрын

@@MaxxSend Yes, but rather than have weight categories like boxing, it seems like it would be better to limit the watts electronically with a hardware of software based limiter.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

@@MikeDIY I hear ya, but i still highly doubt a policy of enforcing people to do weigh ins on the day of the race. Then afterwards they proceed to put on their gear.. I've participated in many onewheel racing events and hard to imagine this happening amidst all the chaos 😄 Anyway, once you reach 84V power, it's more than sufficient to give the heavier guys an almost level playing field. The rest is skill baby!

@MikeDIY Жыл бұрын

@@MaxxSend Haha, yeah the logistics would be tough. "Everyone strip down for a weigh in!" Maybe everyone should just compete naked, that'd make it easier.

@R_T_X_ 7 ай бұрын

1 year later.... Jeff is riding VESC Bodhi is all in on FM Onewheel as a factory sponsored rider. FM initiates patent lawsuit against the 1st company to sell a VESC board kit to US market from China.

@MaxxSend 7 ай бұрын

a lot has changed, for better and worse.. will be posting a vid on Jeff's first thoughts on tricking on the vesc board from shortly after this interview :)

@R_T_X_ 7 ай бұрын

@@MaxxSend nice... saw that it been posted....just watched, thanks for putting that out- - interesting to see.

@celestewilliams5681 Жыл бұрын

Looking to build out my XR into a VESC here soon, my CBXR is starting to kick the bucket anyway tho

@Kevin-Schmevin Жыл бұрын

The XR is significantly better in my opinion as well, glad to hear an expert say it in a forum that Future Motion might listen to

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Sad that there isn't as much innovation from the xr after 4 years.. Stoked to say that vesc is now ahead of gt imo!

@inactive67 Жыл бұрын

My inner Kyle Hanson HAHAHAHAA WFS for the win

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Feline instincts 😼

@raulhariasl Жыл бұрын

Great talk Max, I just have a suggestion for vesc as you said is more torque I'm wondering why don't play with the dimensions of the board and you don't have to go too far... I know that in northern California are people riding XR with extending rails and tire dimensions like 12 x 8 - 6 I mean if you can have more power why is everyone limited the board to the future Motion hardware standard? Also the standard size of the XR or even the growler is perfect for tricks, but in trails a bigger dimension tire will be way better in some terrain, plus the fastest speed with the 12 inch ratio 🤙🏼 keep it up bro.

@nicoaleman Жыл бұрын

Biggest downside of going bigger tire IMO is forcing a wider stance, you can't really go too far beyond the current tire / wheel well size without sacrificing comfort

@raulhariasl Жыл бұрын

@@nicoaleman Nico, you and I should be riding Pint size 😅🤙🏼

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Interesting point! I'd say for casual riding going a bigger tire size is a fun thing to do. However after trying larger tires, you simply get less torque during fast adjustments and turns, reducing overall agility. For those who like to race, we need the best balance of speed, torque and nimbleness, and the 6 in tire falls perfectly in that sweet spot already, imo. Now with the superflux motor providing 2000W, it will help boost things even more. The increased torque from vesc is mainly felt during slow speed hill climbs, I don't believe it would really help with bigger tire shapes inherently being more clunky. See you at the next event brotha! 🤟🏻

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Exactly, bigger tire would be awesome for some slower speed chunk, but reduces overall agility at higher speeds.

@colebrooks2237 Жыл бұрын

As far as VESC in racing goes, FM should either allow VESCs to compete and set parameters or racing, for example top speed can not exceed X and pushback must start at X. Or FM should make a formula 1 race board with the capabilities of VESC in order to be on the level that 84v VESCs compete

@thirtythreeeyes8624 Жыл бұрын

I don't think we'll be seeing vesc in race for the rail haha but, if they start consistently winning on the tracks FM will be forced to up their game. The problem with limiting speed using pushback is you can ride through it and the only option to not let you go faster is have the nose or tail hit.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

they'll never allow vesc because it's a direct competitor to their controller technology. It's like Apple inviting Android to showcase their tech at their new product launch event lol but I hear ya though. Vesc will be able to showcase its progress at all the other races such as ORL and Underground Circuit

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

@@thirtythreeeyes8624 that's what I hope for, hopefully vesc will eventually force them to up their game. They're already behind lol

@stokepusher5481 Жыл бұрын

'VESC in Peace', ..get it, time and patience, VESC in peace! (also expect the somewhat unexpected proto peoples, wear a helmet, no joke)

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Vesc is a raging, peaceful force to be reckoned with.. I rarely wear a helmet, but when riding trails with my 84v I definitely slap one on lol

@giannidima3031 Жыл бұрын

Good input. But who's selling the vesc?

@quinnfoster4671 Жыл бұрын

you should look at the build tutorials.

@JakeLeary Жыл бұрын

Makers PEV is going to start selling fully built controllers boxes soon

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Currently sold out of preassembled controllers for a few more weeks, but the diy kit still available: www.makerspev.com/collections/bundles?aff=3

@MaxInNewZealand Жыл бұрын

This was before the latest update from Mitch for a new filter right?

@JakeLeary Жыл бұрын

Yeah. Filmed a couple weeks ago I think

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

yep about a month prior

@Gawl88 Жыл бұрын

Anyone else jump to the end for the Chinese 🤣

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

My last name shall be forever mispronounced 😂

@wayofflow955 Жыл бұрын

FM need to pickup their innovation or going to get leave behind, plus people are not going to wait 3 years between release new wheel. Yeah hey should do what Tesla do with fsd, release beta board to experience riders. Good luck catching up.

@Siberius- Жыл бұрын

A rising tide lifts all boats.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

we're now riding the dream wave yee

@Eric-lc2oz Жыл бұрын

lol FM could try but CD vesc is impossible

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

They've finally met their match! ✊🏻⚡

@BlownMacTruck Жыл бұрын

If you don't understand why people clamor about the absolute importance of Open Source software and hardware, this entire situation of Future Motion / OneWheels acting more and more draconian should make it clear. Support Open Source projects and initiatives as much as you can; the method makes sure decision making power is given to the masses and not any single point of failure.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

hell yea, aftermarket and innovation baby! and btw even tho I'm for #ffm I'm by no means for them to fail. Simply want to help force innovation quicker through friendly competition, cuz it ain't comin quick enough from them!

@TheAnimeist Жыл бұрын

8:28 Space Monkey mode all the way!

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Agreed, so fitting!

@Kay0Bot Жыл бұрын

Sooner FM goes down , the faster innovation will get into the market. Guaranteed the former programmers will drop a little coding magik into vesc one FM is gone and they are no longer under NDA.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

I hear ya man, I'm for ffm but not for them to fail. My goal is to help vesc get better in any way I can so it will eventually force fm to improve faster. Like Jeff said having both will boost our community all across. Also, I can finally say vesc programming has finally surpassed fm :)

@Kay0Bot Жыл бұрын

@@MaxxSend i have seen what happens when you don't have one company restricting the market. Scooters , eskate , ebikes, euc have all seen great strides in last 5 years. We could have seen that with "onewheels" but FM is holding innovation at bay. i will be VESC-ing my pint x, for purpose of adding battery capacity.

@BlownMacTruck Жыл бұрын

That's a super bad idea. As soon as a coder even has the hint of dropping proprietary code into an open-source project, it can absolutely destroy it due to legalities. The only way to do that is "clean room" coding, where there is no direct coding done by former employees on various aspects of the codebase.

@Kay0Bot Жыл бұрын

@@BlownMacTruck oh interesting. I have No software coding background. So if I used code for a company that no longer exist, in my " product", then someone , I'm guessing some enforcement agencies, can shut me down Or just a rival company?

@BlownMacTruck Жыл бұрын

@@Kay0Bot Depending on who inherits the IP, they can totally go after you. Even if Future Motion disappeared today, whoever purchases their assets after the fact would have full rights to sue any former employees who inserted what they coded while working for FM in another product. There are ways to work around that (otherwise coders would never be able to get subsequent jobs) but you have to be aware, and not just jump in blindly. This isn't theoretical either. It's happened ALL the time in the past; just look at the Linux kernel / SCO stuff.

@jeepo500 Жыл бұрын

FM/Kyle didn't invent onewheels, they just patented it. They are patent trolls.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Them being patent Karens has caused vesc innovation for one wheels to progress. Now the vesc'ers can start trolling back!

@f1uckyou Жыл бұрын

Fantastic video, Max! Really digs into some key points, and helps show why third party support is absolutely essential for the sport/hobby to stay afloat (no pun intended!). Another good comparison would be the PC market, as one of the biggest draws to owning a PC is that you can make it yours, customizing all aspects of it from the side of your case to the power supply and more! VESC is 100% the future at this rate (thanks Mitch), and hopefully it forces FM to step up their game in terms of quality and consumer care. I love the GT, but it's hard to want it when there are better alternatives in terms of performance, customization, and repairability.

@MaxxSend Жыл бұрын

Appreciate it! So grateful I came across vesc (thanks to Hannes). I was so disappointed when trying the gt, I felt sad since I didn't want to purchase it and was going to stick with my trusty xrs. There's so much growth potential that happens at a fast paced time line with vesc. The more people who join the better things get! Good comparison on the pc market. I lm for #ffm, but also truly hope they up their game because competition is healthy and good. If they don't, they're gonna outdate themselves into extinction soon..