No, explicit, unforced consent to parenthood is what is needed for men. It needs to be informed consent, so that necessitates DNA results.

Or require a DNA test for paternity, custody and support hearings. You want his name on the birth certificate, that DNA has to match

No, not at birth. As soon as you find out she is pregnant and she says its yours. Have her sign an Affidavit about who the father is and then a dna requirement test first thing at birth.

Lol there is a reason they aren't

Guys, do we really want that? Imagine cheating on your wife & your side piece has to hand the baby over to take a mandatory dna test… we’d want that quickly reversed. Especially our rich fellow men… sometimes it’s better to pay her hush money than to have it publicly documented that you have a child outside of your marriage.

That lawyer should lose his license for that. He’s perpetuating fraud himself by being ok with the fraud committed by the mother.

That's how all these people are making money.

I was thinking the same thing! You'r looking at the dad like he's a scum bag , when he was deceived and wanted out of a situation that he was tricked into. How is he wrong, the mother is to blame for the child losing a dad he thought was his. Not the alleged father. This country is backwards and thats why all these single mother homes exist, family values no longer exist and divorces are rampant. When you lie to a child about who their dad is, your robbing the child of their ancestry and right to know who their biological dad is. Instead the courts are worrying about how the child feels when the mother robbed the child of knowing the truth in the first place. Stupid absurd laws and stupid judges and attorneys.

Yeah he didn’t make any sense. If the guy had continued to play father, then that gets used against him in court…

These days? That's been going on from the beginning of marriages.

yeah it has always been that way, going back to the dawn of humanity. just didnt have access to dna to prove and even easier to hide when the populace is genetically closer and lacking diversity

No, it's telling about the state of women.

Can't change a 304 into a Wife = House Wife = Girlfriend.

But that wouldn’t be fair or in good faith

Probably not!

I am currently a victim of paternity fraud trying to find justice for myself, the biological Father and the child in question.

That attorney acting like he has some kind of moral authority to judge that man is laughable. STFU with that BS. Many men have ended themselves over this issue.

Or his son was , sure he would be appalled .

How dare they not call them birthing people!

There is too much money involved. If the girl can't find someone to pay they lost the ability to get back payments

They admitted in California that the paternity fraud laws won't pass because it would be very costly financially to the states.

You may be right, but i have not read or heard that announcement. However Jamaica has the highest paternity fraud rate (Jacket as it's called in Jamaica) rate in the world at 34.5% (official rate, and a whopping 75% (unofficial rate)

@@awfan221 Why though - surely if they can determine who the biological father is, they can be pursued for child support.

@eljay5009; You're right. This is clearly explained in the Dept. of Justice Civil Rights 9 page memo dated March 14th, 2016 (Illegal Enforcement of Fines and Fees). The fraud behind paternity testing is the "omitted" legal consequences that the courts, attorneys, ocse and hospitals are not telling the fathers.

Father chose to believe the mother.

@@JimzAuto He isn't the father, he was lied to.

@@JimzAuto so peoples good faith should be taken advantage of?

@@Blackatchaproduction choices have consequences... women used to be made of 'sugar and spice and everything nice'... NO MORE.

@@JimzAuto Oh, I see, you think that paternity fraud is retribution because other women in other places at other points in history had this that and the other done to them. No, they aren't owed anything for being the same gender as people who went through something.

Marriage

It is evil.

Lets be careful where we ejaculate please.

It is evil

Biologically speaking it is the equivalent to rape for women

Of course it is.

In the USA the men are expendable... it will take 50-100 years but the nation is doomed.

The child is being punished though. The child is being denied the opportunity to know their biological father. The biological father may want to be involved, yet the mother unilaterally makes the decision that they should not be. They are being denied the opportunity to know the biological fathers extended (they may have grandparents, other siblings etc). The child may be being denied their right to inherit from the biological fathers family - they are denied their birthright. They are being denied information about their true heritage. They are being denied information about their biological father's medical history (which could endanger their health or even their life - or that of their children).

@@eljay5009 there would be just so much improvement to our society if we had mandatory DNA testing. All the way around.

@@mobydick3895 yep 👍

I think the man should bear responsibility for not taking the necessary steps to ensure the child was biologically his.

I thought I was the only one thinking this these people have lost their mind. If women have the right to choose ,why Don't i

@@mxgx7508 They not only have the right to choose for themselves, but for you too apparently.

Yeah I thought that lawyer was a gutless pos.

He didn't like him. And his argument was that being a victim of fraud is ok if the money goes to a child. None of that sounds moral, ethical, principled, or legal. Somehow I get the feeling if he was a victim of fraud, he might change his tune.

Thank YOU for saying! It's people like them that allow these absurd things to perpetuate in society , only in the US does this foolishness happen, where women are empowered to do wrong and rewarded for it. Now just think about it, what exactly are you telling women , that it is ok for you to cheat , behave promiscuous , bring a child into the world and trick any man you deem suitable and put a child on him . The courts won't do much if anything and you can collect that mans income for a child you know isn't his; and you have these attorneys acting like it's no big deal and the child is what matters, NO. Money is what matters to them, it's all about money ,not doing right by people.

30% by any recordable estimation.

Yea, according to feminists paternity fraud is rare and rape is common. The bitches got that backward. Paternity fraud is common and rape is rare.

Closer to 30%

they have seen that 30% of babies are not with their real father

@@blackopsrocks Just think about that , 1/3 of babies born aren't for the men that sign for them. I bet that number is probably higher , its staggering .

Horrid, horrid, horrid. Men are nothing to them.

this!

Yeah this was BS

Moreover simply compel the mother to identify the real father and assign him legal paternal responsibility after a DNA test. Problem solved.

It's not about bastardizing the child it's about money because if this man is not the father then the state of where this child was born fatherless is.

Judges are (in family court) soulless. OK, all other courts too.

Pretty much

Oooh, that's a good one!!!

Where would one of us get the resources to go through law school?

Men should never vote for a woman for any office. Why? =>Women first protect women's interests then every other thing in this world comes secondarily to that. Women in general make terrible leaders.

Society has little interest in what situations benefit men.

@@thorntonwilliams3851 but society is not a person. We have the technology, just like we have the pill. So the time for mandatory DNA testing is now upon us, and it needs to happen.

@@mobydick3895 Agreed. But, I'm not optimistic about courts holding women accountable in the way do men, on this matter. I hope I'm wrong about that.

@@thorntonwilliams3851 NAh you will be right, in the Us women are treated with gloves, they can do no wrong and when they do it's a slap on their wrist . So you have a society of women who feel entitled , behave poorly , make bad decisions, single motherhood epidemic and it's all sanctioned by the government . When you live in a country where the women have no values , you'r society starts to erode and that is what we are seeing; and have been seeing for the last 50 years. Simply listen to the view point of these stupid attorneys!

Women, children, and dogs have rights. Men have responsibilities.

courts decide consent for the man illegal to do that to a woman, men are in servitude to sexist ruling judge's

He's the father

@@rodburley3966 he’s not

Yeah belive it ! That is why this is able to go on, because of people like them; and its these same people that become judges and make the decisions to ruin other men's lives.

Being a bastard was or having a child that’s not the father’s was scandalous at minimum or down right shameful to be shunned. Not so much now or it’s generally accepted out of wedlock. So the argument for bastardisation holds not much water

That's a good common-sense law.

Hospitals have lots of money. Women don't

These lawyers seem to see nothing wrong with a man being tricked into taking care of a child that wasn't theirs, if that be the case how about they switch places with those men, they can pay the child support instead. Since they see nothing wrong with forcing a man to pay for a child that isn't his. I bet that would never fly!

Yeah because they make money off of the fraud, so why would they want it to stop.

And people wonder why guys are just done with everything.

It's not your fault. Your mother did this to you. Your mother did this to someone who she KNEW wasn't your father. If he holds resentment, it's his right, if he doesn't then you have a demonstration of what the best of us men can be like.

@@blackopsrocks Or the weakest depending on how you look at it..

can you tell us about your issues to learn more, would be really interesting, i feel for you

Notice how the lawyers twist things around trying to justify keeping an innocent man on the hook.

Unfortunately it's not that easy. Bc of court of public opinion and most judges consider this bs too, when ruling

@@errolm8313 then they should not be judges.

What about taking the driving license off the fraudster if they can’t pay or in arrears in compensation. This is what they do to men in the American system

@@BC-vg3zf There's that too. But that portion of the law is so very ass backwards, that it should never, under any circumstances, be allowed or applied.

Family Court Lawyers will stand against this.... Paternity Fraud creates big $$$$$$ for judges.

In many states it clearly states not to sign paternity unless you are SURE you are the father. I've known friends who've asked for a dna test before signing. it's caused some temporary problems in the relationship I bet, but we men need to take care of each other and not get caught in some bullshit.

@@blackopsrocks In my experience the one who tells you you don't need to. You need to.

Forcing every embryo to term isn't holding anyone "accountable". What it does is force more men to become unwilling fathers. It forces more women to be unwilling mothers. It forces the victims of sexual violence to be saddled with their abusers and their abusers' baby. It forces kids into the world to parents who don't want them. It forces mothers who have serious medical complications during pregnancies into dangerous life-threatening situations. Banning abortions literally helps no one. This is why all the countries that have abortion aren't clamouring to be like the States. We know better.

Just tell them you got them ancestry DNA kits.... Youll be able to tell on their website if you are their father and younever have to disclose the reason behind why you actually got it.

@@zig-dawg2600 all those companies will and do share their information with the government (with out warrants) among other things, not that I've done anything wrong. They've used Ancestry, I believe, profiles to catch criminals before without using a court order.

@@tauneutrino1able you think that paternity companies dont do the same with their DNA profiles ... If you want to know for sure, thats something you have to risk....

@@zig-dawg2600 you are correct on that, the only maybe possibility kinda sorta way would be for medical reasons and make a warrant required. My boys are old enough to know that if I'm checking there DNA during a divorce what I was doing, that's the BIG reason why I don't want to.

@@tauneutrino1able idk.... Kids are smart, but theyre also trusting of their parents. If you started talking about wanting to know your genetic background (even in the midsts of your divorce), im pretty sure your kids would take it at face value...unless youve given them reason not to, in the past

That's rare for a response from a man. Most men who can't handle it, and statistically that 99.999% simply leave. In fact its so stereotypical it's called "My dad went to get cigarettes and never came back." You are assuming men immediately resort to violence when learning this information. Its not true, it's grief. The one circumstance that makes a man's life and struggles feel satisfactory to him is seeing his children grow. If you learned your not raising your children and it's all a lie, it's grief. Rage? No. Just grief from a collapse of your coping mechanism. I would know.

@@blackopsrocks Wrong on all points. You did not comprehend the comment or information. I am speaking to those situations where there is no good faith mediation. I am speaking to the cases that are reported weekly in DV cases. I am not assuming that most men would react that way, I know most don't. I am speaking to when it does happen, and it does happen. Most folks write it off as a abusive man or senseless violence. No one is thinking to motive or circumstances that led to it. Same when these women come up missing, many say they don't get it without looking into her history or relationships. Most men statistically do not leave their families. Women file most of the divorces. That cliche of daddy left is the lie they have always chosen to tell rather than take responsibility. Most men are abandoned or kicked from the home. Women are in great numbers having children with only a small percentage of unwed men. By the numbers you are wrong. Go look up some demographic information. What I was getting at is that everyone is shocked when this type of tragedy happens, but there was a pattern there before. It doesn't just happen because he doesn't want the kids to become proper adults and grow old. It usually comes from issues with the mother. I get you want to come off as defending the idea of the father as the protector or as the strong and silent type, but your comment spoke more to blaming the fathers for the situation. I was not trying to paint all men as the abuser. I was pointing out that good faith negotiations and equal consideration under the law can AVOID these types of events from happening. I have a psychological background and have worked in the field. Keep in mind, coping doesn't mean putting up with or letting injustice happen. It doesn't mean be silent and take it, or even run away from your problems. Coping means adjusting to circumstances in positive ways, seeking a healthy solution to your problems, and getting professional help if you can't handle it alone. No violence is not the answer, but neither is abandonment. Just living in misery and stuffing the pain away is not right either, it's a ticking time bomb. So don't be ignorant. Don't fall for the propaganda. Don't reward bad behavior in women. Believe all women was a lie. Society needs to move away from this notion of all women as victims. This is an injustice, so if we care about justice should we also care about This? I am all for fathers in the role of protection, but society has removed this in favor of the woman as the culprit. The woman is the sole beneficiary of the current legal and assistance situation. The kids aren't protected and the men are totally deprived. Enough excuses. What did I mean by men protect yourselves? What did I mean by protect the children at all ages? What did I mean by protect the family at all costs? You are the one that has problems coping as you got immediately triggered by the mention of the possibility of violent acts. To ignore that possible outcome when a person looks for help and doesn't get it is folly. Did you not consider the mention of fraud? The comparison to taxation without representation and remember a revolution was fought about that. Do you really think that is off the table, in the midst of a gender war? The pendulum swings, don't take any of it lightly. It is not inconceivable when you consider that women in this country alone account for 60 million abortions, not including committing DV or murder of children. Fraud is fraud and should be prosecuted as such if the law is to be worth something. Dishonest women have destroyed the family institution in short time that thousands of years of male dominance did not. Don't be an enabler. Don't be a fool. Be a critical thinker. Peace.

@@bamjungle you went a very long ways to say I am wrong and then affirm my points dont you think? And you added context on things I never eluded to or affirmed myself. I cant converse with someone who attempts to command the debate with such willful ignorance. Next time, consider the opposing view is not adversarial and present any information you like they may not have considered previously. Proper decorum in discourse lacks maximum condenscenscion.

Grief is pain. And if not dealt with, then pain becomes anger. So my question in this situation is this; "Everyone thinks children are sacred, everyone knows how to make another human, but the guy who was basically forced into economic slavery? That is something there are only three ways out of."

Yeah that number 1 in 3 is probably too high. This because of selection bias in the test group. Most people who do a paternity test have a suspicion of fraud. They want to either prove or disprove paternity. As such the group that asks for such tests is skewed towards higher incidence of the happening. Compare this to the number of people carrying an umbrella when its autumn and cloudy. If you count in two countries Uk and Chad. You will find the the incidence is much higher in the UK than in Chad. So to make global conclusions from either one of these countries would be skewed data. Does it happen outside the tests, yes, of course. But it will be lower. I have seen 1 in 5 but other numbers can be possible, 1 in 3 would be a ceiling.

Government wants money. They don't care about justice.

Why every few?.... All you need is just one

The problem is that these guys don't care. They don't mind getting legal notices. They don't mind having to quit their jobs multiple times. They don't mind moving states or countries to avoid accountability. They don't care. That attitude is very attractive to women, but once the baby is coming and those bills are due, women seek out a guy who will stick around and do the hard work. This is why "loser" guys are genetic winners at life. If I was a person who didn't care about actually raising kids, I could be on kid #5 or 6 easily by now by at least three different women. It is VERY easy to make kids assuming you meet the minimum standards for sexual selection. A lot of women don't care if you'll be around, in fact most don't want you around. They just want your kid.

The 8-9% paternal discrepancy is from the UK recently, and covered in a British news outlet. 1000 women were asked about lying to their husband or long term boyfriend.