The Iceberg Stop crying ya little bit... I'm jk this was a nice video lol

The Iceberg do some research on what effect putting races on cable only channels (fox sports, nbc sports) has had on nascar verses when it was on only the big 4 channels(nbc, abc, cbs,fox) . when they started putting the all star race on cable only channels they realized quick that tv rating dropped but they was in the early 90s. Now it's way more prevalent.

I was telling everybody back in 2010 that Harvick would've won the title had they not implemented that stupid seed format. He should've been in the points lead at the beginning of the chase but it went to Kyle Busch who was in 5th I think because he had more wins so Harvick ended up starting 3rd behind Johnson. At least this year we finally got a champion who was actually dominant the entire year. Go Truex!!!

New add-ons to championship winners: 2017- Martin Truex Jr. 2018- Kyle Busch

Johnson would have won more championships than that

Well if you watched the whole video. If they all finished the same way just where under the old points system both JJ and JG would've had 7 championships. Only think is that JJs wouldn't have been straight

Billy Diecast No he not

+Ram Fanfromok, JJ would have only had 3

They would of raced differently though

+MariosMinions, well, I don't fully agree, but considering the two drivers were in 1st with a decent lead in their "championship seasons", they would have probably raced more cautiously getting more consistent top 10 finishes. Those drivers that were down by a lot of points probably would have raced for the win, but wouldn't have been so aggressive knowing they faced no chance at a championship, and those races that came down to Homestead either way, they race for the win either way. So I think they race a little different (typically you race for a great finish every race), but I don't think it changes the standings.

I will never count that championship for Kyle Busch in my book he's a 1 time champion in 2019

And the fact that this asshole Kyle Busch won that championship is like adding insult to injury.

@@gagemcpherson4454 actually I believe iceberg updated the championship video since 2019 kyle bucsh would've gone back to back in 18 and 19 either way a 2 time champion.

If we're basing it on a what if. Kyle busch would've won the whole thing under the Winston cup format if he diddnt get injured and bro really tried to sneak Junior with Harvick and Logano that year

​@@beniPellehe was still 4th with no playoffs

@@marksapienza3832 tehehehe think again

as do I mate

Forgot Truex in 2017, Kyle Busch in 2018 and 2019

Man how I wash this was true

The dream of all Jeff Gordon fans.

That would’ve meant that all of the 7x champions raced together since Gordon’s first race was Petty’s last and Gordon raced along side Dale Earnhardt for a decent portion of his early career.

In 2020, Kevin Harvick would have won his 4th championship

Steventhe2nd Yeah but I'm still not happy that he didn't tie Richard Petty and The Imtidator

same here, but he's a true 7 time champion in my book, the times that the chase and jimmie johnson screwed him over

History will hold him in higher regard than Johnson. Johnson is still good, but he's more on the level of Bobby Allison or Darrell Waltrip. Still very, very good company, but the highest level is Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon.

Steventhe2nd no. He only has 4.

saying jeff wouldve won 7 championships without the chase is like saying the golden state warriors are 3 time consecutive champions. (which they arent). people need to let go of the past and acknowledge statistics for what they are. every team and every driver is given equal opportunity to win races and championships at the beginning of the year. so they race their season in a way that gets them to where they need to be to win the championship. saying certain things "would've" happened just shows how unintelligent you are and how little you know about statistics and the factors that change them.

If I had to disagree with you on one thing, it's least DNFs. In 2014, he completed every single race based on points, which is practically UNHEARD of. The only two races he DNFed didn't even count towards the stats, I believe.

@@rcracer8872 I mean Dale is my favorite but to say Gordon wasnt half as good is just wrong. If Dale had to race the chase he wouldnt have won 7 but if they kept the orignal way Gordon would have won 7. By stats Gordon has done better than Dale in his career. So give Gordon his due he was a great driver and one of the best ever. And let's not forget. In the mid and late 90s Gordon was kicking Earnhardts ass.

@@thomasc.5219 Eh, to an extent. Better to phrase as Gordon was kicking everyones ass, not just Earnhardts. In 1995 Earnhardt only lost to Gordon by I think 45 points. Then in 1996 Earnhardt (who was the points leader at the time) suffered that bad accident at Talladega. After that wreck Earnhardt wasn't the same for a full two and half, three years, plus he was toward the tail end of his career. So to say he was kicking Earnhardts ass specifically is a stretch.

@@rcracer8872 no he ain't from 1994-2001 Jeff was giving Dale sr. Ass whoopins Jeff won most of his races while going against big e rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett, Ricky Rudd and the labonte bros. 😂 He didn't have to wreck them either he just dusted them Jeff got a lot more done in less time than big e oh it didn't take him 20 years to win the Daytona 500 either 😂

@@rcracer8872 if you think only championships matter than I guess David Pearson isn't all that great to you then eh?

Jochen Rindt won the 1970 F1 Drivers title, despite being killed in a crash at Monza. It is possible.

@@Minx5892 This is a pretty good example. Just a few notes... In the 1970 Formula One season, Jochen Rindt won the driver's championship by racing 9 of the 13 races (69%). He won 5 of those 9 races and finished the season with 45 points total (F1 has a vastly different points system). However, only 8 drivers in that season participated in all 13 races out of the 38 drivers who participated in at least 1 race (21%). Now in comparison... In the 2015 Sprint Cup season, Kyle Busch won the driver's championship by racing 25 of the 36 races (also 69%). He also won 5 of those 25 races and finished the season with 5043 points total. A big difference here is that 29 drivers in that season participated in all 36 races out of the 75 drivers who participated in at least 1 race (38%). Do with this information what you will. I just thought it was a pretty good comparison, so I decided to investigate.

A bit late, but Truex did not dominate in 2016. His highest points position all year before the chase (not counting after the Daytona 500) was 7th. He had only 8 tops 5s all season. Average finish of 13.9. Chase Elliott had a better season than that in 2018. Do you think he dominated also?

From 2018 and 2019, Kyle is now a worthy champion, but no way in 2015.

First era of the chase was still very much points based I wish they would go back to that

I think the thing the execs of NASCAR forget is that every season doesn't have to comedown to a contrived "game 7 moment". If someone is dominant throughout the season they should be rewarded for such dominance like Gordon in 2007 or Harvick in 2010. I've always felt that blowout wins for the championship make those tight points battles that much more enjoyable to watch.

The only thing wrong with the chase is win and you're in. That should only apply when you are a chaser and you win to get into the next round DURING the chase!

The chase is like the (borwns NFL team ) trash

exactly. a champion should earn that crown over the entire season, not over 10 races. i wanted ryan newman to with the championship so bad that year to show nascar how flawed their chase crap was/is.

The sad thing is, the chase was made because people couldn't deal with the fact that Kenseth was super consistent in 2003 so they had to make something to give other drivers a chance. Completely unfair.

You know Jimmie got burned by the chase too. He could have definitely won in 2002,2004,2005. So sure take 2007 but that doesn't change the fact Jimmie could still be a 7 time champion. Jimmie had a solid 14 year span that he was a championship driver for. From Jimmies First Championship and 10 years after his worst over all points finish was 11th same as Jeff Gordon. But in that same 10 year span Jimmie won 7 championships Jeff in that same amount of time won 4. Prime for Prime Jimmie was better. Also Jeff was still racing those years it ain't Jimmies fault that he was better than Jeff in the same equipment and its Jeffs fault he didn't make the most of the format if it was "easier". Also 2007 is only one year, That would make Jimmie a 6 time and Jeff a 5 time so Jimmie still was better. Also Jimmies 2nd full season (while some would still consider him somewhat of a rookie) He beat Jeff in points during the winston points era!!!!! Out of the 3 seasons they were teammates for during the winston era Jimmie beat Jeff in points TWICE in a row. So your argument is INVALID even if it was points based and not the chase format likely Jimmie still would have bested Gordon. I love Jeff and he is a top 5 all time driver to me but Jimmie is better

Gordon deserved a lot better, I can't help but to imagine that he feels a bit of spite towards NASCAR execs in hindsight. I'm not a fan of his but I acknowledge that he should be in the 7-time champion club with Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty.

Im Ju St Chillin yeah 7 championships....damn it

He beat Jeff twice out of their first 3 years as teammates during the old format....

Bill Elliott was the most popular driver back then partner.

no dale jr was

Same. I quit watching after 2007. Turned me off of the sport.

@@nascartoday8849 Bill Elliott removed his name from the ballet.

They didnt "rob" him. No one could have predicted the theoretical finishes discussed in this vid.

Johnson wouldn't be a champion without the chase he is only consistent at the end of the Year during chase time

nathan lore the video just showed that he would be a 3-time champ

Harvick would have won his 4th championship in 2020

But without the chase the drivers would race differently so you never know

If you change history you can change the future so Gordon may not have won 7 championships we won't know

Gene H I knew that before.... 😲 I'm pissed

@@MariosMinions It wouldn't have changed 2007. At the very least, Jeff would have 5 titles.

Fun fact if the chase was implemented since the beginning, regardless of the format, Gordon would of merely won 2 championships. www.reddit.com/r/NASCAR/comments/3sex89/hypothetical_nascar_cup_series_points_standings/

@@rcracer8872 you are actually a kid though. Gordon/Johnson/Petty/Pearson > Dale Sr

RC RACER 88 Dude, calm down. You’re acting like a pestilent child.

Thanks for watching. I agree, I saw that Kenseth was on the chase bubble and was shocked because he'd been up frontal much this year. I'm a Dale Jr. fan and I will completely acknowledge the fact that he doesn't deserve to make the Chase by a long shot. It sucks that Kenseth playing the system to perfection in 2003 caused this because that year he put on a clinic on how get the most outta what you got. I remember so many races that year where he'd be running like 15th or 16th and then with like 10 to go I'd look up and he'd be around the top 5. I consider him the last true champion of NASCAR.

Your video was able to highlight what a great career Dale Jr. has though! Even if it has not been backed up by major accomplishments, especially in the last couple years.

Unfortunately the chase really cut off what accomplishments many drivers had. Gordon would've been a 7-time champion, Junior would have been a contender more often, Kenseth also performed much better than the chase showed, Edwards was given the worst hand. I never realized just how amazing of a 2014 season Kyle Larson had as well until I looked into this topic. The Chase truly was a detriment to a huge amount of deserving drivers through the years. In my opinion it's going to tarnish the sport and the legacies of most drivers forever.

Hopefully NASCAR sees what they've done and takes some steps in the right direction. And yes, there's a number of reasons that Edwards is gone and that's one of them.

I hope so, it's sad to see something I love as much as NASCAR be mangled this bad.

Honestly, giving the winner an extra 15 to 25 points back in 2004 would've made a huge difference. Would've solved a lot.

Exactly. All they had to do was give more premium points for winning (like 20 points over 2nd place) and then have a regressive scale be more pronounced to give premiums on top 3's top 5's and top 10's. The chase was a hip shot reaction to Matt Kenseth winning 2003, which he did fair and square because of consistency of 8th to 15th place. Well...just award more points for top 5s and wins and make the 15th to 43rd points differential really small. That's all they had to do. And in fact, if you watch this video, the drama was already great without a Chase. Now we have illegitimate champions and a sport that is ruined.

@@kylemielke1021 I've had a similar idea, but not to as much of a degree. For example, if I was in charge of NASCAR, I would have positions 40-31 in increments of 1 (1-10), 30-21 increments of 2 (12-30), 20-11 increments of 3 (33-60), 10-6 increments of 4 (64-80), 5-2 increments of 5 (85-100), and a 10-point gap between 1st and 2nd (110). The somewhat mathematical part of my brain likes the elegance of how the numbers work out here. I experimented with this system on the 2003 season to see how this would affect Ryan Newman and Kurt Busch's seasons give their win totals in comparison to those ahead of them. Newman would leap up to 3rd, within 2 race wins of Kenseth, and Busch would finish comfortably in the top 10 ahead of Terry Labonte. The potential for a very fast car/driver combo to overcome one or two DNFs or otherwise low finishes is very much there. Unfortunately, my system also ensures that Kenseth wins the championship with an even larger margin because of my boosted points totals of the top 10 and 5 positions. Oh well, might have to rethink that. And yeah, the freakout over Kenseth winning a championship with one win was completely unjustified imo. Bill Rexford in 1950, Ned Jarrett in 1961, Benny Parsons in 1973, and Matt Kenseth in 2003 are the only four drivers in NASCAR Cup Series history to win a championship with only one win to their name. Kenseth's 1 win season should have been celebrated as an anomaly and not the norm.

@@wheresaldocanoe Yeah what was the points under the old system? Wasn't it like 5 from 1st to 2nd and then 4 from 2nd to 5th and so on? I also kind of liked the mystery of the hard math and relying on TV to calculate it for me. I don't know. I guess I'm a nostalgia guy who is pissed Jeff Gordon didn't get the titles he deserved. But even last year. I'm a Chase fan now...but it still doesn't feel like Chase was the 2020 Champ. Harvick was. And everybody knows it.

@@kylemielke1021 Back in the Winston days, 175 points were awarded for a race win. Positions 1-6 were 175-170-165-160-155-150. Positions 7-11 were 146-142-138-134-130. Positions 12-45 were increments of three from 127 to 28 points. 5 bonus points for leading a lap and 5 bonus points for leading the most laps. It was a system that worked nicely but definitely needed a facelift if you ask me. As far as I'm concerned, facelift in this context does not mean reinventing the wheel. And yeah, Harvick absolutely was the rightful champion last year. With my points system, Elliott would've finished more than 4 race wins behind Harvick in points in a very distant 4th place. Same for Keselowski in 3rd. Even Hamlin would've been more than two race wins behind in 2nd place - Harvick was just on another level. When I watch NASCAR, I feel I have no choice but to crunch the numbers with multiple non-playoff points systems post-race, whether it be my system, the old Winston system, the regular season points as they are now, or even S1apSh0es's proposed system. That's the only way I can really watch because then I'll know who a) the real champion is and b) who the best performers are across the whole season in general. If NASCAR won't use a legitimate process to determine a champion, then I'll make a legitimate process for myself.

Watch the video by the channel UrinatingTree about NASCAR. It perfectly sums up every problem for the last 25 years in less than 5 minutes.

He made up a 278 point deficit with 6 races to go and won by a mere 10 points.

But he already is tho

Gordon is a top 10 driver across all of racing in all other categories

It was definitely a fad back in the late 90s through about 2008. I think NASCAR as a culture doesn't mesh well with the way American culture is today. While I think you are right that younger people wouldn't go to the sport as much as the NFL or NBA it still could draw more of them in, like you said the PR is a big part. I think that realistically NASCAR could and should be about as popular as it was between 2010 and 2012 on average, it's just that the sanctioning body is too distant and removed from the average fan to understand what they want.

Thank you for watching! People always want to know what it'd be like without the chase and I figured since no one made a proper video about this topic that I would.

To a degree I think they would also when it comes to close battles in points and on track as well but for the most part they would be this way. I'm no Gordon fan but without the Chase I have no doubts that he would be a 7 time champion. The same teams in the front shown here by year are the same ones that would be in the front had the Chase never been a thing.

If teams and drivers aren't trying to win every week, then they deserve to lose. Their total points over a season are a sign of not just success, but effort. Didn't make an effort? Then you're a loser. The end.

every driver is given equal opportunity to win the championship every year. only 1 driver wins it so percentage wise its not easier or harder. A drivers accomplishments shouldnt be frowned upon because some people cant let go of the past. Jeff Gordon himself says Jimmie Johnson was the best driver he ever raced against, that includes Dale Sr. If you're a fan of sports then you enjoy the playoffs because it creates tight battles and no driver can win the championship before the last race which is the way it is in every other sport. The end.

Lol I wonder how you feel

Truex would have by a country mile

truex champ either way

Matthew Hall no pls don’t turn it into F1

Kevin Queen lol what does the chase have to do with the length of the race?

AJ one and the same, you really don't know, do you. Here is a question for you, why did NASCAR adopt the chase format in the first place?

Kevin Queen...NASCAR literally went to the "Chase" Format because of Jeff Gordon's Dominance. He won 4 Championships and had a Runner-Up in 7 years (1995-2001). He was so dominant during that period that Bill France had a meeting with him and Ray Evernham and told them if he was dominating ANY given race with less than 10 laps to go he was to slow down and and keep the 2nd Place care within 2 seconds. Look it up, there's a video on KZfaq about the meeting.

Yeah changing how the champion is crowned is a big deal and they really messed up all the history the sport had

It goes both ways. Matt Kenseth shouldn't have won. To be a champion I feel like you should win AT LEAST one race. But I also think kyle Busch shouldn't have won either. Imagine if a sports team forfeited for 1/3-1/2 of all the games that season.

But it doesn't matter because all these rules popping up are to distract people. NASCAR in 2017 is rigged. People are paid off and cautions are thrown whenever they please. It is very annoying and it will soon stop me from being a viewer and I am a hardcore fan of stock car racing.

Kenseth won a race in 2003 at Las Vegas and then was incredibly consistent after the fact.

The Iceberg that is true. Forgot about that but so was every driver in the top ten lol. JJ had 4 wins, Jr had 2 and 21top 10's, Ryan Newman had EIGHT WINS and 22 top 10's!!!! So no, MK did not deserve the championship compared to other drivers. But that is obvious cause everyone got upset which caused NASCAR to mess around with the system.

All of those drivers also had more DNFs that year. Kenseth, on average, finished ahead of most of those drivers every week. He played the system to perfection. Almost every other champion had 3 wins or more. Just because there was a fluke year does not justify changing the course of the sport forever. Kenseth deserves the championship, no question.

Kevin Queen you can't spell Jimmie..? 😂 but anyways so you think Jimmie can't while a racecar?! Richard Petty who did he race oh yeah like three guys who even had a chance because the rest of the field didn't have the money(sponsors) to even make it congrats on those 200 victories😂 Dale I mean he was a great driver but he didn't have to go through what Jimmie did.. THREE DIFFERENT types of cars THREE DIFFERENT types of points type of system yes it's still the chase but they did everything to make him stop winning it but him and Chad don't back down that's why he has 7 Championships because of the talent and so on and so forth.. but that's all I got to say

You're useless. Why all the sudden can't 'the guy with a girls name" win today, don't even answer that cause you don't know...Why the chase why the rule changes? So you think it was all anti JJ? Guy without a name who knows nothing about buisness...let's see you fall flat on your face! Two questions for ya... 1) why doesn't NASCAR race on short tracks anymore and 2) what's the reason for the chase system?