The Megaman X series kind of used them with Zero, though he didn't have long inputs.

Man, I am a game designer, litteraly just thought about this, typed almost the exact title of your video and ended up here! Great video!

Every time I think about this I immediately think about Ryu & Terry in Smash They're a really good example of how a fighter based platformer could look and work

You mean like uh? Melee

Consider this: Tony Hawk

I'm surprised you didn't mention Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Your spells and special movement abilities are used by inputting fighting game motions. You can buy scrolls from the shop that have the inputs written but technically your character can do them fron the very beginning if he has enough magic and, of course, if the player knows the input. As expected, the basic fire ball spell is simple Up + Hadouken while the screen nuke move that also heals you has a more complex input.

Demon Peaks is an interesting experiment. Great video. I doubt that Fighting game inputs will ever leave the niche indy games scene, but would be fun to see fleshed out in new games.

Great video. I've always been rubbish at fighting games, and I've been content enough to just play Smash against friends, so the way you explain how fighting games work and why their various designs are important was very useful and easy to follow. Whenever I look for something deeper when it comes to mechanical skill with inputs I usually turn to stylish action games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and W101. People often disparage the platforming elements in those games, especially when they can affect your rank, but the way those games can operate combat using button sequences while maneuvering through a 3D space against multiple enemies fits with your point about building upon inputs for advanced techniques. (the biggest problem being there's no commitment when you can dodge at any point, but without human rivals it's almost a moot point anyway) The Wonderful 101's drawing mechanic is often compared to directional inputs when playing on a traditional gamepad. A stick that's used exclusively for combat inputs would probably be a good fit for a 2D platformer where the camera doesn't need to be controlled by the player. The Wonderful 101 is my favorite example for reading enemies, because while they're not smart like people are, they have distinct visual designs that can clue you in on what moves can be most effective. When facing the turtle enemies you issue unite-guts to counter it's stomp attack to stagger it, input a full circle for unite-hand, jump+attack for an uppercut to flip the enemy on it's back, then while midair up+half-circle for unite-hammer and finally press the attack button once more to come crashing down on its exposed belly. I may be off-mark here, I'm don't know how much directional inputs being mapped to the same stick for movement is integral for fighting games, or how integral it may be for platforms with fighting game mechanics. Action games have never excelled at platforming and combat at the same time, but I think there could be valid takeaways for how they handle combos, enemy design, and spatial awareness. Either way, once again, wonderful video. Very excited for your GOTY list.

Symphony of the Night

Another fantastic video. Can't wait to see your favorite games of the year!

I've wondered the same thing since Street Fighter 2 came out. I was like, "Could you imagine how insane a platform/action RPG would be with these elements, mechanics??? Donkey Kong Country showed what was possible with prerendered sprites...imagine if you took the level of sprite design and animation frames from the best of Capcom and SNK and incorporated that into a action RPG?

You know, I'd like to see you try playing the Saturn version of Symphony of the Night as Maria. There are plenty of complex moves with tricky timing such as: ↑↗→↘↓↙←↖↑ (hold), ↓ + [FIRE] or ←→↘↓↙←→ + [FIRE] And since she doesn't get any new weapons, using those moves is extremely important on bosses and difficult areas and they don't always work. It's great in theory but frustrating for the most part.

Interesting, this Devil's Soul game is. I, myself, am definitely no fighting game pro, but hearing your experiences compared to how platformers could utilize them is very intriguing. Great work.

I never could get in to fighting games but listening to you explaining so clearly the ways players anticipate each other's moves and buffering attacks blew my mind. Great way to drive your point home. Miffed about the lack of symphony of the night though!

Your English is exquisite and I am going to send native speakers with poor grammar here to be ashamed of themselves.

I think a lot of things motion inputs do could still be tied to specific move properties and conditions, but the point about movement actually gives me a curious idea. How about a 2D game where you perform motion inputs with the right stick? The shoulder buttons would have to be used instead of face buttons, but I think that could add another layer of unique gameplay feel.

I think Guacamelee does a good job of embedding fighting-game-like controls into platforming. The inputs are very simple, sure, but the idea is still similar: pushing the same buttons in a different combination to access different fighting/moving options when platforming

You know Symphony of the Night literally did this, right? It had spells as motion inputs. Also the wing smash with the bat was a motion input. Speedrunners for that game need to get really good at half circles.

Hab dich durch nen Share von Speckobst gefunden! Pretty cool that your videos are in English excited to watch more ;)

My favorite fighting game is a tabletop game called Battlecon, I personally fall into the category of people who don’t like execution and I have tried to get into fighting games before and bounced off because of the execution aspect(also a bit because I have been playing mostly source mods at bad framerates for the last 4 years), however Battlecon, being a card based game with no random elements, is all strategy and embodies everything I enjoy in fighting games. I would like to know what you think of games in the fighting game style without the execution aspect?

I think when it comes to move variety, fighting game motions would only be the best choice when there is an extremely large move-set to implement, as there are several alternatives that are easier to grasp even if they don't offer as many options. i.e. holding the button can add an extra input or two, if a lock on feature was implemented, you can use simple directional inputs (forward, neutral, back) for each button, and if one button functions as a shift key or if an attack can only be performed on a certain condition (only performed mid air), every other button could double in possible inputs. Sure fighting game inputs can be implemented on top of these controls for even more variety, but when would a platformer demand a move-set of that size. (Note haven't played either demon peak nor a lot of fighting games so I may be talking out of my ass at this point) One of the reasons I think fighting games can justify large move sets is because the attacks can have a lot more nuance between them. Fighting games take place in small arenas whereas platformers offer a lot more space so the small details become much more important to the former. Some attack will only cover high, medium or low in fighting games while in platformers, attacks tend to cover all three spaces, multiple variations of a move that take you different distances can feel like overkill in a platformer especially when they can be implemented as simply as jumps are. And this isn't even going into frame data and how a few milliseconds of windup/recovery can be the difference between what move is viable right now.

Have you played Mortal Kombat Mythologies Sub Zero? In my opinion, that game fits this category, I might be wrong thou but check it for yourself.

I don't think complex fighting game Mechanics will work well in a platformmer. At least an accessible one. But I do think light and heavy attacks with Smash Bros like direction variations would work. In fact I'm counting on it.

Wirklich ein sehr gutes Video! Ruhig, gemütlich und es wurde alles sehr angenehm erklärt. Habe zwar ein paar Sachen wo ich bei den fighting inputs leicht anderer Meinung bin, ist aber schon ok. Bin schon mal gespannt auf was als nächstes kommt. Übrigens, vom Japanischen übersetzt bedeuted dein Name "Bouken" so in etwas wie Risiko oder Abenteuer. Ist das mit Absicht?

3D platformer games with deep combat systems that require multiple button inputs and combinations exist, and I'm sure I don't need to clarify what games do this. If a 3D platformer can have the combat system with a level of complexity of a 3D fighting game in its combat, then it stands to reason a 2D platformer could have deep and meaningful 2D fighting game inputs. The problem isn't really the inputs, though. These complex inputs came about out of necessity because, after all, there are only so many buttons on a controller and as fighting games expanded the new moves had to go somewhere. The problem, rather, is that very very VERY few 2D platforming games have combat that is expansive or complex enough that it would even require so many different attacks.

Great video! Have you played Divinity Original Sin 2 yet? If so, what do you think (or would that be spoiling an upcoming video)?

bloodstained used 236rekkas, 2146, 66, 360 etc motions and was a lot of fun. hopefully you tried it cuz the game was too much fun

have you ever played X-Men Mutant Apocalypse on snes

You should totally check out Abyss Odyssey.

Good music choice. I never considered this for non-fighting games.

i've been considering these things as a Smash Bros fan who doesn't like typical fighters. to me, Smash is like the best of both worlds. why push 5 buttons to fire an energy blast when you can just push one? it's just so much more simple and reactive and fluid. there's just more clarity to having an actual block button than "holding back."

Devil May cry has lots of motion inputs.

I'm sure you would like "Roof Rage" it takes on the aspects your talking about but the inputs are minimal at best, but better then a game like Smash bros or another like Brawlhalla etc...

The more succesful attemp was Capcom with x-men mutant apocalypse for the snes, spawn tried but was too complicated.

I don't agree that one of the roles of complex inputs is to facilitate yomi in fighting games. The example you provided with Ryu vs Fei Long is true, but it would have been equally true if the DP motion was replaced by forward + button with 10f extra startup on the move. Ultimately, complex inputs only get in the way of yomi IMO because they increase variability in both yours and opponent's execution. If you haven't played Fantasy Strike yet - I'd strongly advise. Also, check out Core-A Gaming youtube channel if you haven't yet, he's got a video for both pros and cons of execution in fighting games. Complex inputs of all kind (motions, combos, strict timing, etc) are ultimately a single-player expression of mastery and that's precisely why they would be interesting in platformers and other SP games. In challenging platformers, for example, they may be either optional or absolutely mandatory to beat the game, but either way they can be used to present unique mechanical challenges to the player in extent of precision platforming or just timed button presses.

das ist gut 👌

I like waffles

Ryu's motion inputs in Smash are, if anything, a prime example of why this concept doesn't really work for platformers. It's VERY easy to have Ryu do something completely different to what you want him to do due to the input overlap of the motion inputs and regular moves as well as him being able to turn around. The Tatsumaki is the absolute worst with this, because if that move comes up at the wrong time it can very easily kill you.

Hi, new sub here. After Terry Bogard was released in Smash Ultimate, I thought "How would Smash be like if everyone had inputs?". And after watching this video I believe platforms and input commands can freely work in a game, but as you said, it has to be part of the core gameplay design.

9:02 Dude! You like... JUST mention Smash 4 Ryu. Reread your goddamn script and great video! :D

Uhhh, Smash Bros?

Smash brothers