Interesting thought! That's probably true. If all the drums sound bad they all sound bad. If some sound good it might affect the way the 'bad' one is perceived. There's a great deal of that type of psychosomatic perception that goes on in human perspective (something good to understand when mixing tunes to get the relationships right between the different elements in the tune... not everything has to be just perfect, b/c some of the character of some elements will be credited by the listener to seemingly unrelated content in the mix. (Different discussion for a different channel, but it's in line with your saying!). Thank you for that insight!

Jon Zoog is good people! Thank you for your kind remarks!

Thank you so much!

Yeah, I was in Boston a couple of weeks ago, so took a quick road trip up to see the guys there. Great place and great people!! They asked me if I wanted to play on an electronic kit while I was there, so it was just a last minute type of thing. Electronics drums aren't really my bag, but they're fun to play when the sounds are interesting (not the normal acoustic drum kit fare). It's a surprisingly fun kit to play. Thanks for reaching out!

Thank you for being here!

Thank you! That was exactly the point I was hoping to make in this video. Hardware and heads matter, of course, but I hear so little discussion of the craftsmanship and finishing/sealing that would make many middle-of-the-road drums truly quite nice!

THE MOST COMMON short cut I see from virtually all manufacturers these days with their non-top line drums is to leave the interiors unsanded and unsealed - raw. Harder woods will suffer less from the effects of this, but sealing the wood makes for a more complex timbre common to top line drums. After that are less-than-spectacular edges. I'm actually about to modify a friend's Tama Rockstar kit with these two mods (maybe mod the mounting brackets too, but not sure yet). I'm debating (with myself) about making a video on that as well. Same basic subject as this video, but another, broader application (and something I highly recommend to people who own such kits... it will improve your whole experience with those drums). Think that is worth doing??

@@drumdotpizza go for it! i would love to see that video! i picked up a mid-90s Tama rockstar kit with the luan shells for 80$ - guy was gonna toss it. All I did was clean it up and put Aquarian studio-x heads on it, and it just sounds so big and warm. I have much more expensive drums sitting right beside it and I honestly don't love them more than these rockstars.

@@oreoandoz7723 Thank you for the encouragement! I'll likely do it. If I do it'll be done in the next month or so (I'm working on the drums next week).

I got a good deal once on 91 japan Rockstar, then sold it couple years later for same 200 dollar with more hardware included to a kid that never played drums. He thought he was getting robbed, poor kid. I Think I even took off 50 bucks for him too..

No, this is not the route to quality drum... too much effort and expense compared to getting a much better drum used. This was only for demonstration of the role of craftsmanship in the manufacture of a quality drum.

@@drumdotpizza Yes indeed, it also shows your creative approach for making the cheap drum usable, at least for now. lol...

Absolutely. After heads the bearing edge makes the biggest difference.

Thanks for the question! I used the Bondo 'Rotted Wood Restorer' primarily because of ease... I didn't love the applicator brush built into the lid, but it is a single part product (no separate hardener to mix like epoxy), so it was easy to use and cured very quickly and definitely makes the wood hard. I do think (think, not actually know, but certainly think) that a better long term approach would be proper penetrating epoxy (do some research, they differ in working and curing times). And I would do multiple coats. Penetrating epoxies hare largely solvents (to make its viscosity really thin to help it penetrate wood fibers), but those solvents simply evaporate while it cures, so if you look at it microscopically you'd see that it coats the wood fibers, but still leaves the wood porous, so multiple coats of penetrating epoxy will better fill in the gaps with each application. I would also warm the epoxy before application to further reduce the viscosity. This would definitely add mass as well as harden the shell, so I believe the effect would be to my liking anyway (I prefer denser drums to lighter drums in general). I have an early-80s Tama Imperialstar 18" floor tom that has water damage that I'm going to do this to (while also cutting it from 16" deep to 14" to make a bass drum out of it). It is currently missing the bottom reinforcing ring (where the water damage is), so I'll cut the 2" from that end and install a new ring, refinish the interior, fill holes from the leg brackets, etc. It should be a fun project (I like building things, and I have 12" and 14" toms to go with to make a little Imperialstar bop kit. Should be fun!

@@drumdotpizza that does sound like a fun project!! Thanks for the advice about using Epoxy. I had considered that ( partly because i found one with fiberglass power mixed in with it and i thought.. oohh easy wipe on vibrafibing (if my terms are correct)) but ill look into the one you described. Thanks for taking the time to write back, thats really nice

They were bad, yes (the beds about the worst/most useless I have ever seen), so yes, that made the biggest difference, but I believe in the idea that lots of attention to many small details adds up to a big difference, so I went ahead and added the heavier washers, glued the wrap, and better hardware would help too (would stay in tune better with cast lugs over the lightweight junk it came with).

​​@@drumdotpizza That snare drum sounds like a Ludwig supraphonic tuned low.

Thank you!

I have a Tama club jam and the 12" snare is poplar and really quite fun, but the shallow bass drum is awful, the shell finish is no better than the drum in this video.I lightly sanded the bearing edges and put candel wax on them.

I'd love the opportunity to do such a comparison. In truth, I'm an old dude and my love for Tama (which is deep!) stems back to my high school days in the early 80s -- Imperialstar, Superstar, Artstar (the original, not 'II'), and even Royalstar (gonna do a video about Royalstar soon, I promise!) and the Mastercraft series of snare drums. THAT's the Tama I'm familiar with. The more recent Tama offerings I know fairly little about. I do know their Imperialstar line is now entry-level poplar made in China. And I have played the Woodworks (is that the correct name?) poplar snare drums that are so inexpensive. I actually considered using one of them as the subject for this video, but thought I was likely to get an even poorer (better?) example of poor craftsmanship with the $45 Amazon drum. Of the current Japan-built Tama drums that I have been exposed to, I do like a lot of what I see and hear. Just need a bit more exposure...

@@drumdotpizza I just noticed that the old Tama swingstar and Rockstar are really good quality and sound good for a cheap price. But I don’t know how they Compare to Superstars. For shell construction and hardware.

@@JackNiles In the 80s Superstars were six THICK plies of birch. Swingstars were 9-ply lauan (philippine mahogany), like Imperialstars (though not 9 PIECES of veneer... veneers leftover from cutting were glued together to make a single veneer for the Swingstar shells, so they do differ from Imperialstar shells in that respect). The hardware compliment was lighter weight for Swingstar than Superstar/Imperialstar, but the craftsmanship was quite good. Swingstars also had the zolacoat interior finish that Imperialstars had too (Superstars were natural or stained interior depending on the year). Rockstars appeared at the end of 80s and have been in continuous production since, I think (I lost track of the drum world for much of the later 90s through 2010s while working in audio production (I geeked out about audio as much as I did/do about drums, but didn't reignite my drum passion till probably 2015). Rockstars, for the most part, have been lauan shells with an inner ply of basswood (as I described some less costly drums being in this video). The basswood makes a nice presentation, but it is unsealed, so it sucks up HF energy tremendously. Sealing the interior or Rockstar drums, particularly with 2 or more coats of sealant (the wood just sucks it up) makes them much nicer drums (though most tend toward the deep side of dimensions -- think power toms of the 80s and 90s. I am actually upgrading a friend of mine's Rockstar kit for another video, so stay tuned. It will be a few weeks away, but that one will be coming. Thanks for being here and for your comments!

Roundover edges definitely mellows a drum, and this drum probably would be better suited for that edge, particularly given the relative softness of poplar. The edge that came on it looked like a 45, however, so I just had Jon do that for the sake of the upgrade... just trying to do what the factory was had intended. Anyway, that was my thought. Thanks so much for your comments!

Aquarian heads are made in Mexico, I believe. They were made in Southern California up till around 2006/7 when they moved production to Mexico. I didn't use Aquarian heads during this time (having used them several years earlier, but having stopped due to difficulty from local retailers not having them sufficiently in stock) and have heard that there were some initial kinks in production quality that had to get ironed out after the move, but I also heard they ironed these kinks out quickly, and I can say that by the time I began using them again a few years ago (once it occurred to my ancient brain that I could order them online!!) the quality has been top notch. I have nothing but praise for Aquarian heads! Their flesh hoops are the. most stable of the big three drumhead manufacturers, and their coating is the most robust. 25 years ago I used Aquarian Texture Coated heads on my snare and toms and LOVED them. But then my local reseller quit stocking them so much, and I was busy with the studio, so I switched to typical Remo/Evans fare for the next several years (whatever I could get when I needed heads). Their heads are okay, but Remo's QC seemed hit and miss (heads with wrinkles in them, some rather tight out of the box and other (of the same model) flabby... just never knew what I was gonna get). Evan heads sound fine, but I really don't like their coatings... they're sticky and they come off easily (with tape or if the heads sit in their shipping boxes too long the coating sticks to the inside of the boxes). Just annoying. Aquarina heads are super consistent, and they have some models that R and E don't have anything remote equivalent for (I LOVE the Studio-X line... the PERFECT single ply head with just a touch of tone control... just beautiful for toms!). I'd love to take a peek inside the factory myself! I wish they'd do such a video. Maybe I'll reach out to Chris and ask for it!

Thanks a bunch, I’m really digging the texture coated, haven’t tried the studio x

Yes, it lacks punch and body, for sure. Not at all odd for a cheap, poplar, stencil drums. Rounded edges would help balance things, as would much more substantive hardware and (likely) more attention to detail when forming the shell (I seriously doubt a sufficient amount of glue was evenly spread between veneers before hitting the mold. Poor adhesion of veneers can have really detrimental effect on the fundamental tone produced by a drum's shell). But... even cheap drums can find a use (I actually have a couple of similar drums that I love to use for loopy type stuff!). Thanks for chiming in!

So let me guess.... you like Paiste cymbals? (I know, I'm like psychic or something! ;)

@@drumdotpizza Love them

@@michaels6213 My favorite crashes are my 18 and 20 Paiste Giant Beats. Smooth and rich, but bright enough to cut without being harsh. They record phenomenally well and are easy to mix!

Then get one !!! I have 2 set of drums not interested in parting with any of them

@@erictorres4889 i would already have done so if it weren't for my neighbors 😂😂😂

There is definitely something to be said about that. FWIW I used identical miking and mixing setups for all the audio examples. Like I said in the video, not the approach I would have taken with that drum in its final form, but for the sake of consistency doing a comparison I maintained it all.

Absolutely! If you're looking for a drum this is NOT the way to go about getting one. This was only for demonstration of the value of greater care in craftsmanship during production.

I doubt that would work. I like their channel, but they script things like fart sniffing college kids. Talking about "tuning prescriptions" and "we don't subscribe to idea that ___" and such. They're two completely different styles. This channels way better

Sounds like a drum take 20 mins to say what you could in 2. What would he gain from them?

@@krusher74 a wider audience!?

Well... $150 anyway! And don't forget the elbow grease!! 😀

Wanna change your life? Seal the interior of your Export drums. Not a glossy finish, mind you, just a couple legit coats of tung/teak oil or the like. Try this first: take a head off of one of your Export toms or bass drum and press your thumbnail into the interior ply... it will easily leave a deep groove -- the basswood interior ply of Export drums is extremely soft (and porous) and unsealed -- raw. Give that wood a good seal with finishing oil and your drums will come alive like you have never heard them before. Thank you for being here!!

sugar percussion is the only drummaker who has made a truly great sounding all-poplar shell drum in my opinion (their painted poplar series snare drums). it just tends to be such a soft and porous wood that it sounds lacklustre 99% of the time because most companies don't play to the strengths of poplar as a shell material when making their poplar drums

For sure, agreed. However, many drummers already have on hand relatively inexpensive snare drums, and there are numerous tips in the video to help them sound better.

Agreed, that's why I mention (near the end of the video... probably should have said it up front) that I don't recommend people take this approach if they're wanting to acquire a good drum. I just wanted to demonstrate the value of the craftsmanship that is common to quality drums that contributes to their improved performance over cheaper drums.