What’s wrong with Infinity Reinforcements - and how to fix them!

  Рет қаралды 571

The Dice Gods War Gaming

The Dice Gods War Gaming

Күн бұрын

Hydra takes a look at the latest game play mode for Infinity, reinforcements. Since launch, the community has been pretty indifferent to the rules and we’ve yet to see them used at all in competitive play. But why? And how could they be fixed?
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00:00 Intro
02:21 What are reinforcements?
04:04 Where are the problems?
10:09 What changes would we make?
14:50 Off for a jump from space!
#Infinitythegame #Reinforcements #CorvusBelli

Пікірлер: 38
@ethaneberle9258
@ethaneberle9258 6 күн бұрын
I love how you thought out changes that would make the game mode more cinematic and Infinity-esque. I would love to give these changes a shot and be able to provide play-tested experience. Thank you for your time and thoughts on this!
@weihaigoh9734
@weihaigoh9734 Күн бұрын
Cool i just found this channel in Infinity group. Very useful video just like I like watching auspex tactic video about warhammer.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg Күн бұрын
Blimey, that's high praise indeed. Thanks so much and welcome to the channel.
@Brem797
@Brem797 10 күн бұрын
Good ideas! Might play with these rules soon!
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 10 күн бұрын
Let us know how you get on!
@DeepGreenX
@DeepGreenX 10 күн бұрын
I think the Reinforcements rule has potential but does need a lot of work to make it a viable option for players to use. One of the main issues at the moment is that there's no option to play a Reinforcement list against a non-reinforcement list which is something that would add tactical depth to games. Personally I'd make some of the changes you suggest however I'd alter the following: Reinforcement units drop at the start of your 1st turn if you have lost 100 points of your army list OR automatically at he start of your 2nd turn. This means a player who goes 2nd and gets hammered by their opponent can still get a decent 1st turn with the addition of their reinforcements to their army, which is sort of how the mode is supposed to work IMHO. Dropping automatically at the start of the 2nd turn means the units will get some use before the 3rd turn by both players and solves the other main issue with reinforcements which is that they can score objectives in some missions basically uncontested. Reinforcements drop in the ZOC of the Comlink unit if they are active, if not they drop within the players deployment zone. This increases the functionality of the Comlink unit and potentiality allows for interesting tactical deployment if you can move the Comlink up the table and keep them active until the start of your 2nd turn. It would force your opponent to concentrate on taking out the Comlink unit if they want to avoid Reinforcement units deploying in a tactically advantageous position but would also mean that you force your opponent to divert resources to doing this and not getting mission objectives which is a tactic all of its own. Reinforcements acting as a coordinated order is very interesting but I think the only reason this isn't already a thing is because their deployment happens before the actual start of the turn and units aren't normally allowed to ARO outside of the turn phase as it causes all sorts of problems with the other things that happen in these phases. There's a workable idea there but it might mean restructuring how turn phases work. I think we might see a re-work of the Reinforcements rule in a 5th Edition if and when that becomes a thing.
@JonahStuart
@JonahStuart 6 күн бұрын
> One of the main issues at the moment is that there's no option to play a Reinforcement list against a non-reinforcement list which is something that would add tactical depth to games. Agree that this is the biggest barrier. There are always going to be people who just refuse to play reinforcements. You need to make it an optional part of regular play or it will continue to languish in obscurity. Which means it needs to feel fair against your average 300 point list. It sounds like they were designing that way but yoinked that option at the finish line.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 4 күн бұрын
I see what you mean. So, I view the deployment/ ARO in the same way as I see the impetuous phase. This happens first with some familiar mechanics. But yes, it's a raw idea and needs a lot of tweaking. Also, that's an interesting concept of effectively pulling player 2 reinforcements forward a turn. The big issue I have with the point loss triggering arrival is, as I said in the video, that weird place it puts you of wanting your own troopers to die to get that extra bundle of units it. That just feel... off to me. I thought about the ZoC of the Commlink unit too. The issue I had was this; newbies are going to get battered over and over here. You need to be able to move up the Commlink unit to a good position, without leaving it too exposed. Most newbies struggle with this, so will end up getting their Commlink killed over and over. But, I do see the interesting ways to play that it opens up. Totally agree that it needs a rework. I hope that it doesn't get just left like Spec Ops, that would be a shame. For now, I think I need to solidify my ideas and get some play testing done.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 4 күн бұрын
Should Infinity have Attacker/ Defender type missions too? With the attacker getting reinforcements and the defender not? Adding in some unique missions designed for the game mode would also help, I think.
@DeepGreenX
@DeepGreenX 4 күн бұрын
@@thedicegodswg CB toyed with some asymmetric missions a few years ago with a downloadable scenario that involved a beach assault. The problem is that the community is so focused on the ITS mission format at the moment it won't really accept any unbalanced asymmetric missions that don't fit into that mold. It's worth noting that CB's new game Warcrow has much more of a focus on narrative in the missions, probably for that very reason. The turn tracker wheel with variable round lengths and the ability to have NPC units activated during the game as a result allows for much more flexibility when designing missions.
@jamespeterson9620
@jamespeterson9620 4 күн бұрын
@@thedicegodswgI think you could make a rule that made the com-link a more reliable landing and without the com link or out of ZOC the troopers deviate from their landing zone (use those template markings again). I do still feel that this midgame “let me deploy several models” is awkward and feels very 40k I go you go.
@wit3215
@wit3215 9 күн бұрын
The landing coordinated order type mechanic is great, but the wip roll sounds like it will lead to a lot of NPE. My opponent gets 100 point advantage for a whole extra turn or two because of a dice roll I can't do much to impact? Much as I'm not a fan of point counting, I think it works better than this.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 9 күн бұрын
True. But it does avoid the sacrificing of a unit/ units whilst not killing stuff insanity that points counting lends itself to.
@Chris-bd6ll
@Chris-bd6ll 3 күн бұрын
Would be cool to see a multiplayer format. Use reinforcement troopers only and it can be up to 4 players. 2v2 or free for all. Have no idea if it could work but sounds fun.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 3 күн бұрын
It's just mad enough to work!
@user-gx5fs8te1y
@user-gx5fs8te1y 6 күн бұрын
At 5:12 you have it backwards. 250/10 > 300/15. I enjoyed the faster games, although some missions were incompatible.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 5 күн бұрын
Ha, I did? Glad you're enjoying the game mode.
@eyaldiskin3665
@eyaldiskin3665 10 күн бұрын
You suggestions are interesting, but your suggestion around switching the point counting to a WIP roll seem to realy strengthen the first player, since if he can assassinate either the other guy's lieutenant or his commlink, he will greatly diminish his ability to call in reinforcements.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 10 күн бұрын
That's true. But killing the Lt is already a huge bonus as is. And, as with loss of Lt at the moment, requires careful counterplay. What would you suggest in place? And thanks for watching!
@eyaldiskin3665
@eyaldiskin3665 10 күн бұрын
I am not sure, but since the point of reinforcements thematically is to "turn the tide" when you are losing, it seems too cruel to punish players who are already losing. I would rather count points between rounds (and to be honest, since the starting player only needs to count once, and the second player needs to count a maximum of 2 times, this problem seem overblown to me)
@jamesmaybrick2001
@jamesmaybrick2001 10 күн бұрын
@@eyaldiskin3665 What is the reason why people arent playing the rules then? I am but a noob very very early in my Infinity life, but for me (as someone who has yet to play a game with the rules, and doesnt want to), my reason is that they compound a minor issue i aleady have. We have these beautiful models that we have spent a lot of time and money on, but they can spend a significant portion of the game simply not on the table (either as a camo token or HD). Reinforcements reinforces (see what i did there? lol ) this by having a further chunk of models that might not see much table time and then not do much even if they arrive they might not do much. I may be wildly off, but that at least is my noobs perspective.
@Vertrucio
@Vertrucio 10 күн бұрын
Please adjust the volume of your pre-stream music to that of your actual stream volume. The pre-stream music is deafening.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 10 күн бұрын
Thanks for letting me know, I will look into that for the next one.
@jamespeterson9620
@jamespeterson9620 4 күн бұрын
I don’t think it’s a good mechanic. Combat jump and parachutist exists. I don’t know what CB thought they were doing with this “game mode”. I think your suggestion are good. I would like to see missions that make the reinforcement rule make sense. There are obviously scenarios where reinforcements is bordering broken. I scratch my head at the need and reason for the mode. The coordinated order for combat jumping and/or parachute troops arriving is the rule that would make people think about more CJ in army creation and that is interesting.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 4 күн бұрын
I think they're trying to add something new to the game, which is a good thing. But I think this one needs a little more work! Thanks for watching.
@jamespeterson9620
@jamespeterson9620 3 күн бұрын
@@thedicegodswg ​​⁠they did add something new. It’s called resilience operations and that is an interesting way to play that doesn’t restructure army building… it in fact opens up list creation removing need for specific specialists. I think that is the double whammy on reinforcements. Res ops is just better in so many ways.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 3 күн бұрын
@jamespeterson9620 I see what you're saying, but I see res ops as a variation on the classified/ ITS game mode. An evolution of that. Not a new concept within the game. It switches things up without trying to add a whole new way to play.
@RattlerNxt
@RattlerNxt 10 күн бұрын
I’ve been to two major Reinforcement tourneys. But not this year in 2024.
@RattlerNxt
@RattlerNxt 10 күн бұрын
I’m fine with these changes for the most part. The wip roll is too swingy tho I think.
@RattlerNxt
@RattlerNxt 10 күн бұрын
But I would try it. ITS Rattlernxt.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 9 күн бұрын
Oh wow, awesome! Where are you from?
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 9 күн бұрын
Cool
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 9 күн бұрын
It's not perfect. How else would you do it?
@user-pw8hh8jm4i
@user-pw8hh8jm4i 4 күн бұрын
I plat white company,and IMHO NA2 faction has the worst commlink unit in the entire game:wardriver(unlinkable ,half a hacker,and COMMLINK(0).Why CB,why?),the most BORING,and probably the worst reinforcement list. So no, i refuse to play reinforcement with my army.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 4 күн бұрын
Fair enough. The wardriver really is not a good unit! Completely agree with you there.
@user-pw8hh8jm4i
@user-pw8hh8jm4i 4 күн бұрын
​@@thedicegodswgThe only reason that might pull me into reinforcement mode,is i can play a 3 ANACONDAs list in starco,the faction i started to collect recently. It may not be powerful ,but sure it is hilarious.
@thedicegodswg
@thedicegodswg 3 күн бұрын
@user-pw8hh8jm4i any time you can add more Anacondas, it's a good thing.
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