It's kinda crazy how the best players on both teams were the 30th and 41st pick in the draft. I don't think that's ever happened before, where the two best players in a championship series were practically 2nd round picks.

And Jokic’s game will be more durable. It’s not based on athleticism obviously. It’s his intellect and soft touch in a 7 foot/280 lbs package. If he still has the desire he should be dominant into his mid-30s.

Offensively jokic right now as good as anyone in nba history

when you score 41 on 28 shots, grab 11 boards and 4 assists in a finals against a great defense, and people say "you didn't play well", you're officially GOAT status

Jimmy Butler has averaged 20-5-5 with all-league level defense for almost a decade straight and has been the best player on 2 finals teams. He's without a doubt in the Top 100 and maybe even in the Top 75.

Jimmy reminds me a lot of Reggie Miller stats won’t say he was an all time great but ask the fans of teams they played in the playoffs and they’ll tell you he’s like that.

Going back the last 50 years, the only players to be the clear cut best player on at least 2 teams that made the finals are steph curry, durant, Lebron, kawhi, dirk, Kobe, Duncan, shaq, Jason Kidd, Karl Malone, mj, Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, magic, bird, Kareem, Moses Malone, dr J, and jimmy butler. That puts him in incredibly elite company and in my opinion, puts him in the top 75 ahead of guys like Reggie miller and Dominique

it always warms my heart when dirk gets mentioned

Its hard to overestimate Jokic. The only reason Miami has a chance this series is the rest of his team lacks playoff experience. If this team can stay together for five years they'll get at least 2 championships. Im a Heat fan so I hope we win bit Jokic is a monster.

The idea that Jokic is not athletic is absurd. He’s not graceful, but his first step is lightning and his spin moves evoke Olajuwon. And his ability to pass without actually catching the ball first is something I’ve never seen done consistently on any level..

That’s accurate. If Jokic wins a title he is Kg, Dirk, Gianni’s territory no doubt.

Jimmy Butler has one of the greatest Playoff stat elevations in NBA history. The regular season doesn't tell the full story. On that note, compare Kawhi's regular season stats to Playoffs and witness the GOAT playoff monster.

Jimmy is without question top 100. He massively elevates in the playoffs and that has to count for a lot. I think he’s arguably top 75, very close at this stage.

Having Horry in the top 100 is insane

If Jokic wins 3 rings he will be in top 10. He needs two more. And he can get it. 28 isnt old. He has many years ahead. His style and the fact he has been taking care of his body means he can play another 7 likely.

Jokic did not take that long to get to his first finals. He's just unlucky to have Murray injured for 2 years. Look at what is happening when he has a healthy Murray.

I think the time to debate legacys is after these guys retire. So many things are still happening and much is yet to be written.

Depends if you're ranking on peak greatness relative to the era or career accomplishments. If you're doing a peak/prime greatness relative to era I break it down by eras/decades 20s Jokic. Giannis 10s Lebron . Steph 00s Duncan. Shaq/Kobe 90s MJ . Hakeem 80s. Bird/Magic 70s Kareem. (Dr. J ABA included) 60s Russell/Wilt These will probably be the top 15 players of alltime in 5 years when Jokic and Giannis add a little more to the career accomplishments inevitably unless an unforseen decline occurs. Moses, Durant ,Big O, West, K. Malone, Barkley, Dirk, KG, Robinson, Wade, Barry, Baylor, Kawhi, Isiah, Walton are part of the 16-30 tier I'm confident Jokic will pass. Jimmy relative to era I'd rank same tier as Pierce, Dominique, King, Carmelo, English, Dantley, Mullin, Hill, Worthy, George for small forwards because they never had runs in the playoffs like Jimmy. So he is in the 51-75 range alltime. Btw I don't believe in exact numbers for ranking players from different eras, I think it can turn into a big disrespect game arguing specifics like Jordan is one but LeBron is 2 or vice versa, the circumstances are completely different.

I think you guys are the best duo out there. Thank you

He’s achieved more than Dame & Dame was Top 75

Great segment!!

It's funny how Rusillo wait for Bill to stop talking, and then when it's time for him to talk, Bill will start's talking again.😂

There should be a different category for guys who step it up in the playoffs. Jimmy is as good at that as anyone I’ve ever seen.

He has the consistency of delivery that Duncan had with a better passing and range on his shot.

I actually don’t see this being a regular thing. I can’t imagine they’re gonna have another playoff run where they don’t run into a Single good 3 point shooting team

With a title win, Jokic becomes top 25, Butler becomes top 50.

Fanduel gotta add a prop bet on what room Ruesillo does the podcast in😂

Jimmie Butler has among forwards been in the top 4 in win shares 6 separate times. This would mean he arguably should have been selected as 1st team 4x and 2nd team 2x and likely an additional 3rd team. Just because sportswriters and broadcasters get these votes wrong doesn't mean Butler should be penalized. If Miami goes on to win this series, how is he not Top 50 all time? I can't think of a more impressive run if he takes this talent to a title. It would be more impressive than Dirk in 2011, Wade in 2007, or Hakeem in 1994 & 1995. On top of that he he have another Finals appearance and went 7 games in the eastern confrence Finals another year. There aren't more than 25 players with better resumes than that. He already ranks 35th in career playoff win shares, 30th in career playoff VORP, and 24th in career playoff box plus minus.

You need to list your 70-80 so we know what to compare Jimmy to.

Tmac was my favorite but Jimmy has passed him with the HUGE disparity in playoff success.

Joker is one of the hardest players in history to rank. If you're just talking about a center who can get you two points on anyone when it's supremely important, you couldn't rank him above the five centers above him. If you're talking about a defensive stopper who can get you the key rebound or blocked shot he's in the same position. But if you're talking about the best overall basketball player and guy who is most likely to lead your team to a victory, he's already right there with Wilt. You can't even compare him to Shaq or Hakeem or even Kareem because it's just not fair to them. Yes, he has to do it for another 5 years to legitimately hold that spot, but assuming there's no injury or just lack of Interest on his parts and he at least stays this good, you're looking at the best center ever depending on what criteria you use.

Amazing to me that after the 2017 season there was room for debate about who you would rather have at SF, Jimmy Butler or Gordon Heyward.

Giannis was injured in both trips for the Heat finals runs

Jokic is the best passer in NBA History

BY advanced stats Jokic could be in Shaq/Jordan level, at least on offense. Three straight years and counting of leading the league in PER, WS/48, BPM. On D, people say he's bad. It's totally untrue. He's just not athletic in a league where athleticism is held as the gold standard (people think about LeBron's chase-down blocks when he'll get blown by in the same game.) But Jokic is *always* in the right position. Jokic on D is like a public health program: when he's working you don't notice him doing an excellent job.

“If Jimmy Butler was a Celtic, he would be top 25” - What’s actually Bill Simmons would have pressed here.

Jokic is the best player in the world and I don't know that it's even debatable. He should have just won his 3rd straight mvp, he could end up a champion and finals mvp, a triple double machine and can hit the big shots from range The only thing he doesn't have going for him is he is not american

If Jimmy has another 2 nice playoffs runs why can't he be top 75 ? Dude is good ! What I like the most about him is that he's far from just being a scorer. He can hustle,pass,play defense,rebound,set picks etc. He's down to do anything.

I think you have to have Jimmy Butler somewhere 60-75 all time based on how many players on the official Top 75 team never even made a finals or were the 2nd and 3rd options on a championship team. Jokic has to be somewhere in the 13-20 range already because as far as greats with 1 FMVP go, Jokic has a much better resume in terms of accomplishments than guys like Dirk, KD, Giannis, etc.

how do you guys still have webcams from 2006?

Jokic is the most skilled center ever imo

There were reports that Caleb Martin was sick as hell for the last 2 games so that may have effected his game as well

Jokić I would say is the top 75 player. Butler hasn’t won MVP or championship yet so he still got a ways to go.

I don’t know if I’d put Butler over mcgrady but definitely top 100 already

Joker top 20 of all time EASY!

Jokic will undoubtedly be top 10 all time at LEAST. He is entirely unique and makes everyone infinitely better. Nobody has ever been able to do what he can do.

Nikola Jokić is the GOAT! Just watch and wait! ✌️🏆

Jokic 2023 Playoffs EASILY 1 of GOAT! #1 in ALL Playoffs in POINTS ASSISTS REBOUNDS (1st player EVER to have most POINTS ASSISTS REBOUNDS in single playoff! Wilt Russell Kareem Moses Bird Hakeem Shaq Duncan LeBron 5x the only others to lead in 2 of 3!) WIN SHARES PER BPM WS/48 Last 3 years in what easily could of been 3 straight MVPs he AVERAGED 26, 12, 9, 2stocks on insane 59/37/83, best analytics by far, best on/off by far! He’s undoubtedly Top5-25 somewhere in terms of what he’s done from 20-28 years old from an individual accomplishment stand point, statistically, playoff riser, analytically, all around game. It’s a TEAM game boys that’s why Jokic only had 1 WCF before 28 years old. He was still an awesome 26, 12, 6, 2stocks 52/40/82 in nearly 50 playoff games. Murray been hurt last 2 playoffs as was MPJ last year. They had no bench. Even this series they still could lose if KCP MPJ continue to shoot 20% from 3 instead of their normal 40% (they’re 5-26 so far from 3 or they’re up 3-0 if they are their normal 10-26 to 12-26 selfs!). MJ first 6 Playoffs was 24-29 in playoff games and never made a finals also. Was 0-5 vs Celtics Pistons even though he was mostly elite in playoffs. TEAMS win titles not individual players!

Jokic is Top 15 assuming he finished with 1 or 2 Champinships

I shut it down when he said horry was better lol

Man if DRose would have stayed healthy and Chicago kept Butler they def would have won a few

🃏🐐

Jimmy is easily top 40 now

They will both be in the top 50 one day, but let's get that first ring.

Butler is 33, Jokic is 28. Miami is a flawed team, the Nuggets are a complete team. When it’s all over, Butler top 60, Jokic top 15.

Jokic, lebron and nash are the only guys i never said wth was that possession offensively

its spolstra w jimmy. hes def a smart crafty strong guy but spolstra gets the most credit for heat success over past 4 years

Butler is easily top 75 and ahead of guys like Dame, Melo or Tmac imo. I even put him over Harden as the playoffs are what really matters. I nearly lost my mind when Bill said Miami didn't have a superstar during this pod. Guess Tatum isn't one either. Can we please stop saying the Heat dont have talent. Bam and Jimmy have achieved more than Tatum and Brown since 2020, they are actually tough as hell and their skill sets arent redundant. If my life depended on it to win me one important game, give me the Heat combo

I don't understand why Jimmy Butler can't be top 75. So many analysts index way too much on regular season statistics when it is unanimously known that the post-season is an entirely different beast. The man has consistently shown that he plays winning basketball in Chicago, Minnesota, Philly and now Miami. Jimmy Butler easily trumps McGrady, Carmelo, Carter, Westbrook, Harden, and I would even put him over guys like Pierce and Reggie Miller. It's okay though; Buckets thrives on being the underdog.

Jokic could very well be top 5 center of all time when he retires. For butler if he goes ringless, you could put him in the ringless great conversation because his playoff resume to me has to hold up even if regular season he’s mid. If the Heat win this title, you have to put him top 50 somewhere

Jimmy Butler ends up Clyde Drexler tier? Top 40 player?

The minor way that Jokic is overrated is that interior defense is not the same as it was in the past so the guys from that era he is compared to had a tougher environment. So his inside scoring might not be the same but that is nit picking. He is amazing.

Has anyone seen the Rest of Ryan russillos Body Like..ever? 😅

TMac is so underrated fuck injuries man

Jimmy Butler is the best 2 way player in the NBA right now his elite defense and electric offense is next level stuff, amazing to watch him play 🔒🔥

Jimmy is closer to top 50 than top 100

Butler is a worse player than Paul George or Jason Tatum. Spoelstra and his system carries the Heat. Elevates players. Can take Montrezl Harrell to the All star game(Adebayol. Many of these Heat starters would not make other rosters. Remember what happened to Nunn, Cole, Chalmets, Dragic when they left Spoelstras system ?

Let me get this right, Jimmy Butler, who has been the best player on two teams that made it to the Finals is behind Tracy McGrady, who never got out of the first round once in 16 years? I don't want to hear Bill saying winning matters ever again. SMFH

Finally Robert Horry not in the top 100. It was a travesty at the time. There should be a Hall of Role Players where guys like him and Derek Fisher should be. Get some credit, but not too much.

Did Simmons really the best possible competition (@8:30)?? You serious!??

Joker is not top 25 alltime stop it

I’m tired of players being put on a all time list just with 1 championship but jokics numbers are just insane lol

Butler has played with Drose, KAT, Wade, Simmons, Embiid, Adebayo, Herro and as of now hasn’t won a ring yet (although that can change) at the end of all his regular seasons no one ever said to themselves he is a top 5 player in the league. Yes he “elevates” in the playoffs but he hasn’t really played awesome in the past 7 games. Also he hasn’t out dueled anyone who is ranked above him. He didn’t out duel Jayson Tatum towards the end of last round, he didn’t outduel Giannis, in the finals he didn’t outduel Lebron. He doesn’t catch any flak when they underachieve but he gets all this credit when they win. Even in game 2. What was that last 3 point attempt about? That could’ve cost them the game.

Look Jimmys highs are very high but hisnloes are pretty low. The only reason why we dont give him flack is because hes not a top 75 guy. His defense also savrs him from criticism

Joker had “mediocre” game 2-only 4 assists (and, yeah, 41 points and 10 boards).

Whoever loses this finals will be labeled either boring or not a top tier star.

Butler is better then everyone he named and to say McGrady is an insult

Jokic never forces anything.

I don’t see how Jimmy isn’t top 75, not many guys were capable of being the #1 guy on a finals team. He’s done it twice. If you really look at it, he’s better than guys like A.I who had cultural impact but didn’t contribute to winning as much as Jimmy. To have T-Mac over him, when looking at resume is ridiculous to me as well

Bro recorded this on a flip phone

Putting Jokic in the top 25 is fair - for now..

Top 25 for Jokic is dead accurate imo

2:27 He should.

People really getting carried away by jokic potentially winning 1 ring. Hakeem, shaq, kareem, wilt all on another level

Vincent, all day.

Ryen agreeing with Bill, no waaaaaaay! lol

Are we just at a point where every great player of the future will just be easily slotting in the Top 25 of all time?

Jimmy Butler with this run of this playoffs is top 75. If Reggie Miller is top 75 certainly Himmy Buckets is! Two finals appearance All playoff numbers across the board go up Big time clutch plays, big playoff games Enough said… easily take him over James Harden top 75 right now Gabe Vincent, Duncan Robinson, Max Struss and Caleb Martin are all legit NBA players. Just because they were undrafted but didn’t stay at a undraftee players skill wise… just like a new doctor or lawyer you are expected to get better and do you are not the same individual as you develop and hone your craft. Analyst need to stop saying undrafted they are legit very good NBA players!

I love Jokic but top 25 all time without even having won a title -yet- LOL Bill, I love you man but that's a trash, currently hype type of call. Similar to how you keep saying Durant is too 15 all time.. just smh

Jokic is a legitimate top 25 player of all time. No questions about it guys

But the Bucks have been the only one to deliver with a chip. Heat and a celtics have not

Prisoners of the moment.. if Jimmy wasn't having this playoff run, people would not be talking about him this way. He's like 110-115, all-time.. He's far more deserving than Kyrie though.. Literally, if Kyrie doesn't make that 3 in Gm7 vs. GS, his resume takes a massive hit.. And you'd probably be hard-pressed to find a GM who would take Kyrie over Himmy..

I think we need to let this play out. Butler is not top 100 and that is no shade to him. He is a great player I disagree with Bill on this one. No comparison McGrady to Jimmy Butler. Let’s slow down the Jimmy Buckets train a little bit. The Joker is just hitting his prime can’t rate him yet. I don’t think he has reached his peak yet. Ryen wants to say it, but he can’t . He doesn’t agree with Jimmy Buckets ranking.

Jimmy Bulter lead the team to the finals twice. including as an 8 seed. How is he not top 25 at all time? He's better than CP0, john stockton and Jason Kidd.

Butler is better than harden and ad and he made top 75

What an astute comparison by BS. Jokic is a compilation of other white guys 🤣

Dragic was the best player on that Finals team in the bubble, not Jimmy.

top 25 is insane for jokic. it took him a while to reach his prime. hes averaged 25+ like twice in his career so 20pt tripple double is a good/reg jokic game not a bad one. he doesnt play defense well. and the all time list is not a projection... cant count the next 5 years of him playing this well until he does it. this is a career resume award we're not comparing peaks. and his playoff resume isnt exceptional. top 25 take is obviously biased...for the purposes of content, maybe recency bias bc THIS playoff run alone has been an all time one, or maybe theres another reason but im not positive he's top 50

jok top 25 butler top 100

These guys are still dissing the Heat un-draftees, probably still secretly bitter for Miami beating their beloved Celtics. "A guy from nowhere who played like Spiderman for two weeks and then never again..." in reference to Caleb Martin is pretty lame. I hope Miami with its unheralded players keep beating Boston year after year, so they can keep giving slights disguised as stinting praises to them ("Oh, Gabe Vincent was this year's Spiderman against Boston," or "The unplayable Duncan Robinson really gave the Celtics the bidness this playoff series."...)