Yes, it's allowed...especially if you are a smaller person, or shorter. If you have big hands or super long fingers....THEN you might be doing something wrong.

I'm so happy to hear this. My experience was similar. I always felt guilty for keeping my thumb there....but then I think it was Todd Ehle who casually mentioned that for smaller hands, the thumb can drift back. (I am almost sure it was him) So.....hey, whatever works, right?

I agree. Every time I revisit the basics, I discover new things, and my own playing improves!

You're very welcome! Keep up the good work!

Thanks for all your kind words, Michael. Much appreciated.

Thanks for your kind words. Glad it helped!

Thanks for the kind words!

I am so happy to help! Greetings to you in Iran!

Thank you for your very high praise!

Glad it was useful!

You're welcome! Good luck!

You are so welcome! Good to see you here!

Glad it was useful to you!

Thanks, I hope it helped. Thumb is tricky, because it is so individual!

You are welcome! Thanks for watching.

I appreciate that very much, Ellen. I LOVE getting ideas from other teachers on youtube as well! I think we are all happy to exchange ideas!

Glad it was helpful!

LOL....yes it's fun to watch him break all the rules that we are supposed to follow, huh?!

Wow! I am sooo glad you wrote and told me that! I had tension before and sort of just fell into the laid back thumb position....I guess for some people it's just right. Are you short like me? I am 5'2". I wonder if that has anything to do with it.😮

@@RedDesertFiddle I have never met an adult with smaller hands than mine, but I am not short. I am 1m70. I think that translates to 5'7. I buy gloves for 8 to 10 year olds and my pinky is half the size of my ring finger.

Thanks, Theo. Sometimes, I try to be careful not to present my way as "THE ONE TRUE WAY", because it rarely is. My KZfaq viewers are GREAT to recognize my efforts and good intentions.

I'd love a clone of your violin!!! Glad the video helped clear some things up for you!

Thank you for your great feedback, Mystery47! Wishing you the best of luck in your violindeavors!

@@RedDesertViolin - I just ran across my first obstacle in learning the violin - how to tune it. Unfortunately, I tried to tune it as I would a guitar - by turning the pegs. Broke a string. I had forgotten all about those little mini-tuners at the other end of the violin. Now I've got to figure out how to attach new strings. Maybe I should search for a KZfaq video on how to restring a violin first.

I hope it will help you get started establishing a good placement for your thumb. Don't be afraid to experiment, and above all.....teach your thumb not to squeeze, and allow it to be free. (some movement on the neck is a good thing)

Glad it was helpful!

Yes, take it all in stride, and if one way just doesn't work for you, maybe you need to go "outside the bounds". I can't speak as far as your recorder! You got me there!

Howdie Francis! Fancy meeting you here! Glad the video was useful!

@@RedDesertViolin absolutely!

Great!

Hey Davidpugh9947, I'm very glad you are aware of the thumb problem. Whenever I have a student who places their thumb under the neck, it is because they feel insecure with their shoulder rest/chin rest. So they feel the need to hold the violin up with their left hand. You must investigate and figure out how to balance the violin using your collarbone, shoulder/chest, and passive weight of your head. Then your left hand will be free. Please see my numerous videos about shoulder rests and chin rests. (it is also possible to achieve balance without a shoulder rest) Keep it up!

I think your spot on about thumb on mid bottom of neck. Now push it slightly to left to 7 o'clock and that is where the books say is ideal hang out for thumb. Of course Nicolas thumb is often up around finger board and I've seen others do this also. The best advice I can give is grab an argument and chuck between thumb and violin neck.play it that way a few minutes at a time and youl see a dramatic change in how you cradle the violin.there is that gap Yahuti talks about that you need in order to play right.😅😅

By the way that's art. Gum eraser not argument as the computer miss typed. I hate being miss quoted.

That's so nice, Kylie!

I am glad you found the answer you needed, Allen. Keep up the great work, and I wish you good health there in India!

I am in Arizona.

@@RedDesertViolin Oh... too far! But I'll just be positive and thank the technology for introducing me to such a wonderful teacher. 😊 Love and respect from Punjab (Indian side)

You are welcome! Thanks for subscribing!

That is GREAT that you found the spot for your thumb that relieves tension. I am just the opposite....my thumb has to angle toward the scroll, and then I am perfectly relaxed. We are all unique!

Wonderful! I wish you the best of luck, and lots of happy music!

Yeah, it kind of says it all: we are all different....and all our angles add up differently. Thanks for watching.

The boxwood pegs are the result of a botched install job of mechanical pegs. The shop put them on my violin gratis, and yes, I love them. I don't notice the weight difference, but they are a couple grams lighter. Tonally.....I sort of feel like they sound better, but they also adjusted my sound post....so.....it's hard to say. You are very observant!

LoL I notice things 😎

Here you go! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fdR-mqqI1t-Uh6M.htmlsi=mMPcM835IzODCL0x

Yes, you need to let your thumb be "dynamic" not static. But when you allow your thumb to participate, DO NOT allow it to start to squeeze! Just let it be free and responsive!

@@RedDesertViolin i have my left hand position in relax state. And i don't squeeze the neck too. But I still feel much tense at my thumb. Perhaps I misinterpreted the "counter pressure" concept. I press back the neck with my thumb quite much. I thought that I need to give a pressure so that my thumb can be my axis for my palm and fingering position. But then I found it is a bit hard to shift. 😹 And my thumb position is like yours too, I tend to more in oblique position. Btw, Do you have any suggestions for loosening or decreasing the tendency of "too much counter pressure" on thumb?

I appreciate this input, Theo. It's easy to teach from a single perspective (mine) but it's SO GOOD to learn from others' perspective. (even Dinos! ESPECIALLY Dinos!)

@@RedDesertViolin thanks for your 3 anwers .. i like your teaching from many points of vieux thanks to you ma scratching And sliding of bow has disappeared because i had ad banana inconscious habits

Hi John. A couple thoughts: First of all, unless your pinky problem is EXTREME, you should be able to figure out a work-around. But if the pinky is extremely shortened/recessed, then you might need to consider a 3/4 or 7/8 violin, even if the rest of your body is big enough for a 4/4. Have you had any private lessons? Can you gain access to a private consultation? It would be worth the money you pay, because a professional can zoom in, help you figure out what it's going to take, and save you lots of time and hassles. I suspect the problem is lack of finger independence, and possibly a body-mapping issue. (body mapping is specifically for musicians, to learn how our bodies are constructed so that we use them properly on whatever instrument we take.....look it up....it's a whole physio discipline) So I would recommend Jennifer JOhnson's body mapping book, "What Every Violinist Needs to Know About the Body", or you can find resources online, just not as complete. I would recommend that you find my "Finger Independence" and "Left Hand Speed and Dexterity" video, which includes downloads of sheet music exercises, and work on finger independence for a couple months. I would also recommend that you experiment with changing the placement of your THUMB, and see if perhaps moving the thumb toward the scroll or toward the bridge can help your pinky to extend better. I know the answer lies in one of the suggestions above. I'd love an update on what you discover in your process. Good luck!

@@RedDesertViolinThank you Laura for your expert advice, I'll look into that.

Yes, I have read books that try to say exactly where the thumb should go. It's good to START with that advice, but remember that it's not set in stone.

Are you saying your fingers "cave in", standing on the finger tips, or are they "reaching" and landing on the flat part of the pad? If it's the latter, then you are probalby trying to reach across the BOUTS of the violin. Instead, you need to ELEVATE your hand ABOVE the bouts in higher positions. THis means the heel of your hand will be higher than the top plate of the violin. If it's the first option, (fingers caving in but on the fingertips) This is not necessarily a bad thing in high positions....in fact, it is desirable.

I'm glad you found a method that works for you.

the button is the screw that tightens the hair, and YES, if it is working properly, it should snug up to the stick. As you turn the button, there is a screw that goes through a little eyelet, and it pulls the frog, causing the hair to tighten or loosen. It is VERY COMMON for the eyelet to be messed up, and it's a simple repair. Shoulder rests are optional. Chin rests are not optional. I hope you meant to say you have gotten used to playing without a shoulder rest. (I hope you use a chin rest)

Hope it helped!

Wendy, unless I misunderstand you...I believe your thumb placement will be consistent whether you use arm vibrato or wrist vibrato....can you clarify your question?

@@RedDesertViolin yes I understand arm vibrato means your whole arm has to just move up and down the fretboard but your thumb can't stay in one position that way right? Like wrist vibrato is kind of easy. finger vibrato not so much. But arm vibrato I've recently become curious about and my whole violin of course tends to want to move with me

@@RedDesertViolin that's not very clear is it? 🤔

@@RedDesertViolin do you mean the thumb stays in the same relative position or do you mean the thumb it supposed to stay still in the same spot on the fretboard while you're doing the vibrato

V T, what you are describing is ALL 100% true...and therein lies the difficulty......but you CAN get it. (it just sort of defies what we think is normal) Let's see....have you seen my other videos on Quick Tips for vibrato? And also my videos on shoulder rests? What you need to learn is how to take thumb out of the vibrato equation....thumb needs to be passive. I have an exercise for this, I call it the "thumb swing". I hope that is on the Quick Tips video. Also, try to free your thumb from the task of opposing your fingers. To do this, realize that your shoulder rest, and the weight of your HEAD alone is MORE than enough to counter the pressure of your fingers. Sure, it takes practice to learn this, but from a physics standpoint, the counterpressure is enough. Also, recognize that the thumb sits on the side of the neck, and SLIGHTLY below the curve of the neck.....so the PAD of your thumb gives a very slight upward pressure just from catching the curve of the neck OBLIQUELY. I hear your frustration in your comment, but your comment shows real awareness and astuteness. I think you can get it if you don't give up.

@@RedDesertViolin Well, you might have just given me the courage not to give up. I put away my violin. I'm probably not ready for vibrato anyway, but I find it so frustrating that I can't sound the way I would like. I'll pick it back up again. Yours is the most comprehensive advice I've received yet. Thanks. I'll watch your videos.

@@2ysur are you attempting it again?

@@deadmanswife3625 I'm not attempting vibrato at this time. I started in the Suzuki method 50+ years ago as a child and I think it's really hard for me to learn any other way. I like Laura's videos and am kind of starting all over again with her videos. I was so angry with the violin that I put it down, but honestly, I don't even play well enough to think about playing vibrato now. It's like wanting to be a ballerina but not practicing toe exercises. So, I'm just going to return to the passion of learning violin period, and hope that it will click one day.

I am so glad I found you and this video. I am a beginner with a small hand and have been struggling with the thumb position. Thank you for making this video. I love watching and hearing you play. I can keep going now!! Will continue to watch you with the Suzuki Violin Book 1.

Ba Dum Bump!

Har Har....I totally missed that opportunity for a pun!

The BIGGEST thing is to make sure you aren't squeezing, and that your thumb shifts with the rest of your hand, AND that you are not trying to support the violin with your thumb. But to change the left thumb is a very difficult thing to do. I have a video called "Break the Squeezing Habit in 28 days".....and even if you aren't squeezing, it will give you good ideas on how to approach CHANGING your thumb. Keep in mind: if it works for you, if your vibrato and shifting is ok and you don't have tension....maybe your thumb is not a problem. So just consider all options.

@@RedDesertViolin Hi, thanks for a reply. I am squeezing and supporting my violin with the thumb. I've been teaching myself from video's etc and hadn't realized what I was doing until it had become a habit. I find I can't get the violin supported properly on my shoulder, feels like it will slide off so I started using my thumb to help support it. I'm not at the vibrato stage yet. I'll check out your other video, many thanks x

@@RedDesertViolin I am starting to use your 28 day challenge My teacher actually told me the same thing My problem is that my pinky barely reaches which makes me squeeze the violin In 3rd position (because my pinky reaches better there) and with the other fingers I don't squeeze Thanks though