Great video! Is the storm raven actually moving the dread around or is it just a mobile fire platform most of the time? Would be so cool to drop those dreads! Also- why sternguard over other ranged units? Wouldn’t hell blasters be much better? Or are you fishing for dev wounds with the rerolls on OoM tgts?

I ran ironstorm with a stormraven I put bjorn in and 10 assault intercessors with ragnar. Kamikaze'd him on his home objective and the things inside just had to clean up

A stormraven can transport a Dreadnaught AND 12 Infantry. So 20" of flyer movement and Darkshround advancing to then drop off a huge firing blob. @@archerdrew323

also the talonmaster gives ignore cover, which is essentially an extra ap to the army! massive and now not usuable.

Haha nice

Remember when the only armies that had access to it were bloodangels and grey knights… great times those… anyways dunno who build them with plasma’s when they came out… it was always lascannons… oh well seems incredibly stupid.

​@@ScilentDeathgod, there was a time when the codex had it but we had no art or model. Players were glueing wings to a land raider

Last may have been the start of 8th with 5 stormravens and guilliman lists (before flyers couldn't score)

Now if only the gloriously derpy Stormhawk could get some love.

@@Calvin_Coolage Stormhawk is fine in my book, it's Stormtalon that look so beyond flying potato

@@RevanR That's one I meant, I get them confused because there's like 6 different units with Storm in the name. It's almost as bad as how many Primaris units start with an 'I'

I use a Stormraven in my Grey Knights list and it is glorious fun with a surprising winrate in my local meta. Auspex had a video a while back where someone took it with the Grey Knights to a GT and did really well. Someday I’ll get use out of all my other flyers (got two hawks and a talon I really want to use)

Dont know about space marine flying potatoes… but the most iconic flier of 40k, the valkyrie, is 200 points for effectively a 2+ save, more movement and 0 OC chimera. Its hot garbage of highest degree.

This list doesn't even feel like a Dark Angels list. It feels more like Ultramarines, Iron Hands, or Imperial Fists. GW doesn't need to Nerf the Darkshroud and StormRaven. I think Azreal is going to get a points increase. The StormRaven is hardly ever played outside of Iron Storm and is fine at it's current cost, same with the Darkshroud.

My guess is they will leave Azrael alone despite everything and give the storm raven another 100 points increase. If we go by Gw logic anyway

This is a sign of how badly Dark Angels players are doing with the detachments from the Dark Angels codex, which is GW's fault. Knights need to come down to 220 points and Azreal needs to go up to 125. Inner Circle Companions need to be buffed or cost less. The Lion should have never been Nerfed. The StormRaven is one of the only playable flyers in the game and I just bought one not too long ago.GW should leave the StormRaven alone! I am using it in an Inner Circle task force list, I am not using Azreal. All my models are going to be DeathWing. Belial and a Lieutenant with a Storm Shield are my only HQ choices. The DeathWing command squad should have never been taken out of the codex. Instead you should be able to attach the models to five Terminators to form a ten man squad. The rule should be if you attach a DeathWing command squad you can't add five more Terminators. Oh, only one in a 2,000 point list but have them buff their squad with an extra wound per model and +1 to their attack. The cost for the Command Squad should be 215 points.

@@lelandmartin3970 , that would be hella lame and highlight how incompetent GW is. I got my StormRaven because it has good rules and is fairly costed as it is because it's basically a flying Land Raider. I also think it looks really cool.

@@lelandmartin3970 Yeah, Azrael has weirdly escaped multiple data slates at this point.

For real. Seems like when ever the community finds a list to makes us somewhat competitive, GW nerfs us into the ground.

They neef anything we consistently use. Just because we're using it doesn't mean it's OP, it's just consistently viable and reliable. They need to update the less to never used datasheets

Honestly, “one list good therefore faction good” was thrown around all week last week for Guard. A brain dead take but I was told I “should shut the f**k up about competitive” if I spoke out about it.

@@wyatttyson7737 I agree, though I hope that they can get the game balanced so that we don't have to rely on 1 good list in the future.

Guaranteed to happen. GW really doesn’t deserve the loyalty we give them.

Rhinos are not used because (loyal) power armour is not used. Raiders had a hot minute of use. Deathwing Terminators before the Codex nerf too. Ironically enough GW is too focused on those units and overtunes them every time, missing how halve the codex makes more sense than the overly conservatively balanced backbone of the Marines. Main problem is the main rules team that designes the editions and set the frame for future rules. Especially this edition, where it's a rarity that datasheeds get change for the codex release, most factions are just stuck with a mess where it is extremely hard to make all the units somewhat viable. If you add in how many rules are basically copy paste, random in distribution (most factions got a 3" deepstrike somewhere, it's just random if it is a strat, a unit rule or something else. Same for the 12" deepstrike denial) there is very little room to fix those units.

⁠@@ErrtuabyssRhinos can’t even transport most of the power armor units as they are still on a no primaris rule set, so even if power armor gets used, it’s still likely that Rhinos will not see play.

@@davidgantenbein9362 You mean most of the primaris units that aren't garbage. ;) CSM have a much smaller roster and they use Rhinos in every list. TS have literally a single unit that can be transported. So I stand with what I said. Rhinos are good. The problem is that the units they can transport are either bad or overshadowed by units that can't be transported. GW choose to make the division to push the Primaris stuff even more. There is no logical reason why a Rhino can't transport Intercessors etc and there is no logical reason why Tactical Squads are made to be one of the worst Battleline units in the game. But there is a financial one.

Competitive play ruined this game

​@@LiamMcPattersonI try to give it it's fair due, but at the end of the day, I think you're right.

My poor Dark Talon

That’s the way the game should be played

im new to the game and thats exactly what i do. the new ICC kit looks so cool even though their sheet is kinda poop

Don’t chase the meta dragon because you’ll never catch the meta dragon.

The true spirit of the game there, playing fluffy and fun lists that work well

Which means that despite the fact our Codex is utterly terrible we are going to get the one good thing about it smashed to pieces by the nerf bat.

@@emceedoctorb3022yeah either every other army needs to be nerfed down. Or we need some buffs for the dark angels. It’s just too expensive to run the lion, terminators etc

Because the concept of Combined Arms warfare is a gimmick. Tell that to Eisenhower.

Let's hope DA get nerfed again. HEAR ME OUT! If the get nurf and then this sort of list no l9nger works, then Game Workshop will see how bad they truly are and give the buff they deserve.

​@emceedoctorb3022 Win rate, even with this, is about 40% now which is bad

Please leave.

Oh my god, the worst part is that I genuinely found that funny

ASL?

*golf clap*

I love my Raven. Since 10th I’ve used it a lot. Hurricane bolters are hilarious🤣🤣🤣

the blackstar is not "basically a stormraven" by any stretch and BSTF is a great detachment, however yes the kill teams are overcosted and half of them suck ass

I started warhammer recently and chose Deathwatch because they sounded awesome, I do get stomped most of the time but my redemtor has carried me to one win

Paint the vehicles red and kitbash yourself a Mecha-Azrael. This list is lore-gore already, so a little more won't hurt.

This was out with the regular marine codex, sadly admech came out after this

How do you get the lethal hits on the bolters? Newb here.

I mean the lethal hits 5?

@@user-ic9vt3mo9e mercy is weakness strat gives a vehicle sustained 1, and if the target is below starting strength you get crit 5+s. So if you are within range of the lethal hits aura, you get lethal and sustained on 5+, and reroll everything that isnt a 5+ using oath of moment.

@@stephenrepper8118 Thank you

Yeh 100% they will.

Ironically calgar and ventris escaped nerfs

This list will be gone after a while and be replaced by a new broken list soon enough. Dont stress it

Terminators are mostly overcosted for what they do (storm bolters are absolutely worthless). In the cutthroat environment of competitive, that means they get left out. They can work in casual games just fine though. We'll have to see if the new Deathwing detachment makes them work in competitive, but I seriously doubt it. Pre-codex I saw a handful of DA lists in competitive with Deathwing Knights or the Command Squad, but they're either nerfed straight to hell or outright moved to legends (i.e. killed off for competitive play)

The best advice I have for you is that if you love the models you got and the army, it’s never wasted money! However, like Caranelen said, it’s true that terminators are not currently competitive. Good news- also like he said, that’s probably okay! As long as your group you play with doesn’t lean hard into meta builds and units, you should still be able to have an effective army.

Same here and i sincerely don't care about competitive list: DW knights are too badass and cool to be left outside table, so who cares, in any case i will not participate in high end tournament. Enjoy the ride assembling and painting what you like, probably in next months balance will be changed again

Everything depends on how you play and who you play against. If the only opponents you can find are try hards playing optimized lists, you run the risk of getting burn out by being forced to choose between winning or playing what you enjoy. If you play with people who just want to play to have fun, and play whatever strike their fancy, then absolutely go for it.

Rule of cool my man, if you chase the meta as a newer player you will just end up disappointed as by the time you build and paint for a list like this, they will nerf or change stuff and the meta will shift. Terminators are fine, as others above have said maybe a tad overcosted and hopefully next balance slate all versions of SM terminators, including the Death Wing Knights (really cool new kit) who took a recent nerf with the DA codex release, will get a points drop. They are not a terrible choice though, they can rapid ingress for free with the teleport homer, they have a 2+ and 4++ so they are pretty tanky and a good armour of contempt choice for just holding objectives. I've seen a few competitive lists with a squad of terminators and a terminator captain for free armour of contempt, so basically if you put them in cover and play AoC each turn they are taking away 2 AP from enemy guns and saving on 2s against a lot of firepower, so even Taus crisis blobs overcharging their ion blasters might struggle to kill them efficiently. They just don't have a lot of damage output because storm bolters are basically bolters which are very meh these days and they have one heavy weapon and don't get a lot of attacks in melee, so for like 38 pts per model they are costly. Especially considering Custodian Guard are only like 45 pts per model and are just so much better. The DWK new models look great and I am sure they will get a points drop anyway. Terminators the same, if they drop to about 350 for 10 they will be decent, but most casual games terminators will do fine. Just build your army how you want and what looks cool, what you want to paint etc. don't worry too much about what is meta.

Most competitive lists will disagree. 😅 The problem with Space Marines isn't the damage output but not losing all your important units in 2-3 turns and then just being outscored by your opponent. The amount of anti-vehicle some factions can put out is insane, which makes Ironstorm the least played out of the top 3 (Vanguard and Gladius being more common). The Darkshround and Azrael both help with that, which is the reason why DAs are most prevalent for Ironstorm now.

@@Errtuabyss I run my Ironstorm list with 2x Redemptor, 2x Vindicator, 2x Gladiator Lancer and 1x Ballistus. I never had the Problem with survivalbility so far. With Azrael you have the CP to use defensive stratagems like smoke or Armor of contempt in combination with the 2+ saves and Adept enhancements and the heals of 3 Techmarines. Often you can shoot right back with Power of the mashine spirit. And the antitank firepower of this list is insane to. The opponent need good Antitank fire and the survivalbility to withstand returning fire AND the balance to defeet list with more infatery focus...not so easy to accomplish in my point of view. But for shure i could swap the Ballistus with the darkshroud..maybe thats even better.

@@mathiasschulze6148 I played againt that kind of lists and never had a problem beating them since I could either take out 1-2 of the tanks/dreads a turn without committing too much or simply outscore the list (depending on what I am playing, mission etc).🤷 Anecdotal experience is kind of useless if you are simply more experienced and/or your meta is lenient than in a different environment. My point was based on the numbers we have from tournaments. IS is not very common there because it either struggles against too much anti-tank or stuff like 120+ OC2 bodies that prevents you from scoring. In my personal experience 2+ units of infiltrators and/or scouts are gamechangers for lists like IS. Or in general, to be honest. It prevents doomdrops and early mid grabs that can make it hard to catch up. Azrael and a Darkshroud do help against the dmg obsession most US metas have, which isn't necessarily a problem for your meta (your name gives ma a hint about that ;).

Well i run 2x5 Scouts Squads, 1x5 infiltrator, 1x Combiwapon Lieutenant with master of the mashine war or a Callidus Assassin and 1x10 Assault Intercessors with Azrael. Every Army has there weak Point even the top armys have around 55% winrate. I'm confident that i this list can compet with every normal balanced Army out there. I'm not a pro but if this is a easy win for you, then you play only noobs.

​@@mathiasschulze6148 Seems like a good list against a "normal balanced Army" (not making fun of it just understanding what you are saying and agreeing) on an average GW style board. I'm playing on WTC style boards, which has a lot more terrain on it. It's easy to win against not because of skill but because of the missions. Most games are won either by controling the middle (either having more OC or simply destroying the enemy units so they don't score) or having your units exist at a spot on the battlefield at the right moment. All my lists are build around denying my opponent both the middle and possible kills as best as I can. So only exposing units I need to and will either score points or kill enough units worth that their loss is acceptable. Sometimes even playing fixed missions and doing nothing but zoning the battlefield (mass gaunts for example). It's a problem with the missions this edition, not player skill. It also helps that I'm playing since 4th and most opponents are indeed not as experienced. And good terrain. You wouldn't believe how crucial good terrain is against dmg optimization..

Considering the "geniuses" they left in charged of the codex and the latest munitorum, I'm fearful.

Azrael will get a points increase most likely, I wouldn't be surprised if the enhancements in that detachment get a points increase. Can't see Stormravens go up, no one was using them before this. The list is far less effective without that CP from Azrael as well, so running it in other chapters without access to the CP generation it wont be as effective at all. Redemptors have already gone up in points recently anyway. Knowing GW they will probably increase the points of everything in this list and harm every other SM list using that stuff but not in Ironstorm, that seems to be their general approach. When the vanguard detachment Ultramarine lists were doing well, most things in that like scouts, inceptors, aggressors etc. all went up in cost.

with spacemarines you should be ready for major switchups every now and then as for which units are "competetive", BUT your army will always have something good. just buying one of everything you think is cool will usually mean you can put together something nice.

Hehee, glad I’m not the only one who find these models ugly

played before release i guess :) also i think current release is limited which means its not 100% officially replaced the index yet since everyone cant access it

It's completely legal. The comment below explains it for you. 😉 Also it's Hanna. Not a palindrome.

I hope not, my 2,000 point list couldn't afford that. I am currently assembling my models now. I will not use Iron Storm. I got my DeathWing assault box to use Terminators, Blade Guard, Land Raiders, and my one StormRaven. The issue is with the cost of certain Dark Angels units and the Unforgiven task force. The Inner Circle taskforce is playable, I think if you have transports. These lists are only Dark Angles because of two units which is really sad, no flavor or uniqueness. Basically vehicle spam, which does not feel like Dark Angles to me. GW has to realize eventually people get tired of having to trim units out of their army and Nerfs making units unplayable. I see people on KZfaq every day complaining about how incompetent GW is right now. GW has to think about losing their fan base and money. People are trying to compensate for Gws Nerfs and find lists that win them tournaments. Space Marines are probably going to be carried by Iron Storm across the board after the most recent update, which is GW's fault. The average win rate for Space Marines and divergent chapters overall is probably less than 45% right now. There is always going to be a list that is really good, people will find a way to counter this I am sure.