Why are the Tokaido and the Tohoku Shinkansen not connected in Tokyo Station?

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JPRail

JPRail

Күн бұрын

If the Tokaido Shinkansen and other Shinkansen, such as the Tohoku, Joetsu and Hokuriku Shinkansen are connected, it would be very convenient. But these lines are not connected. Why these Shinkansen lines are not connected? Please find it in this video.
0:00 Introduction
0:44 It was planned to be connected.
1:45 Type 961 prototype car
2:55 The Tokaido Shinkansen too busy
4:17 The situation has changed with the opening of the Tohoku-Joetsu Shinkansen.
5:03 JNR was privatized and became JR.
7:13 What are the prospects for direct train operation in the future?
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Пікірлер: 42
@user-id1li6bp6l
@user-id1li6bp6l 3 жыл бұрын
Once i met an old Japanese whose also a Railfan in my town and we discussed this thing as well. He said that one of the problems is that JRE and JRC goes with a pretty not good relationship, thus the 2 major shinkansen networks were still not connected till this day.
@AISPs
@AISPs 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Chuoo Shinkansen chose Shinagawa as terminal leads to much inconvenience for passengers coming from the north side. JRE is definitely unhappy about this
@namele55777
@namele55777 3 жыл бұрын
i'm just frustrated at how bureaucracy/competition impedes co-operation between 2 large, profitable companies. It's not even the technical aspect that is stopping them, because issues like signalling and electrification can be easily sorted out.
@reyjusuf
@reyjusuf Жыл бұрын
My Kagoshima-Sapporo direct train dream might still be alive! (After Maglev opens)
@mikkieugenio
@mikkieugenio 3 жыл бұрын
It kinda felt like JR Central is the big troll of the JR Group, considering how profitable Tokaido shinkansen is lol
@AISPs
@AISPs 3 жыл бұрын
They can literally sit on this profitable line and don't give a mind about running tourism trains, which the other five companies had for much time
@TheNewGreenIsBlue
@TheNewGreenIsBlue 2 жыл бұрын
True in a sense, but it's their profitability that allowed them to build the Chuo line, so it's not all bad. The Tokaido line is more like a metro line to be honest. When the Chuo line opens though, I think they have a strong motivation to connect the lines at Tokyo station. Through trains from North of Tokyo will have an easy transfer at Tokyo Station to the Tokaido line... then have to transfer again at Shinagawa. If you were travelling to Nagoya... you have to account for the additional 20 minutes of transfer time at Shinagawa (walking from the deep underground station... and then waiting for the train)... and additional few minutes surfacing from Nagoya deep underground station. I'm sure some would just rather stay on the Nozomi from Tokyo station to Nagoya. It will also save them some money. Although the Maglev will still save them time, it will also cost them a bit more as well. Anyhow, JR Central would love to turn Shinagawa into the main Tokyo hub as they own a LOT of the land in that area, so I'm sure they would love to have more foot traffic, so I'm pretty optimistic that it's in JR Central's interests to bring in more traffic from the Joetsu and Tohoku lines.
@ABCantonese
@ABCantonese 2 жыл бұрын
One day, a Shinkansen train will depart Tokyo, go North, visit Kanazawa, arrive at Osaka, AND IT STILL WON'T CONNECT WITH the JR West network.
@33jtm33
@33jtm33 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video! I love the detail that you go into with these, it is very well researched. The changing situation around the Chuo Shinkansen opening does seem like a great time to re-examine direct operation through Tokyo. Can't wait to see more progress on that.
@phuturephunk
@phuturephunk 10 ай бұрын
It is amazing to me that you could transpose this inter-factional friction between different railways to the US and it would be exactly the same situation between carriers and the government and various municipalities. It's amazing how much this matches up between two vastly different nations. You got a subscribe from me from this. Your country has such nice railways. Maybe before I'm old and gray I can ride some of the picturesque lines that run through your countryside.
@darwinrodriguez9542
@darwinrodriguez9542 3 жыл бұрын
Literally was asking myself this the other day. THE answer I was looking for. It’s like you read my mind. Thank you so much for your videos!
@rubenbrixton620
@rubenbrixton620 2 жыл бұрын
instablaster.
@ewanmcgregor146
@ewanmcgregor146 3 жыл бұрын
After I heard that the Chūō Shinkansen Maglev would terminate at Shinagawa, I guessed JR East would raise the idea of connecting tracks 14 & 15 to the Tōhoku Shinkansen, as I would think that there would be a great increase in passengers connecting through Tōkyō to use the Chūō Shinkansen Maglev.
@JPRailcom
@JPRailcom 3 жыл бұрын
I hope that JR Central will approve the entry of the JR East Shinkansen.
@ewanmcgregor146
@ewanmcgregor146 3 жыл бұрын
@@JPRailcom Perhaps one day we will be able to take a one seat ride all the way from Sapporo to Kagoshima-Chūō.... But that will have to be faster than Hayabusa & Nozomi!
@TheNewGreenIsBlue
@TheNewGreenIsBlue 2 жыл бұрын
@@ewanmcgregor146 That sounds great from a tourists POV, but honestly... a one-seat ride from Sapporo to Kagoshima by bullet train isn't really a route that anyone in Japan would likely take other than railfans. They'd probably just fly. A route like that also wouldn't work for tourists as the fastest trains aren't eligible for Japan Rail Passes.
@acmenipponair
@acmenipponair Жыл бұрын
@@TheNewGreenIsBlue You forget, that when the Chuo Shinkansen is opened, not only will there be space for a possible direct train connection from the Touhoku to the Tokaido Shinkansen, but also the prices of the tickets will most likely drop, as the new fastest service will then not be the Nozomi anymore, but the Chuo Shinkansen = the business people will use the Chuo and the others will use the Tokaido. Also it will be most likely that when the Chuo Shinkansen is there that flights from Osaka to Tokyo will end and also many other flights inside Japan and so it will often be more convenient for people to use the train from for example Morioka to Hakata instead of getting to Sendai Airport and then flying to Fukuoka Airport
@TheNewGreenIsBlue
@TheNewGreenIsBlue Жыл бұрын
@@acmenipponair Yeah, i know that they will likely be able to connect the tracks and there will be incentive for JRCentral to work with JR East to do this, in order to get more passengers to their new fancy Chuo Line directly. Prices may drop a little, but prices are also more or less set across the entire Shinkansen line. More likely is that there will be a small upcharge for Chuo. I've heard that they said it would be only ¥1000 but inflation adjusted, it's likely more like 2000-3000¥ by the time it opens. JR Central will also likely modify the Nozomi services on Tokaido to stop at more stations slowing that service down (and making Chuo look better as well). While I agree that SOME domestic flights will end, I honestly doubt it will put a HUGE dent in flights to FUK from TYO. It will still be a 4 hour train ride between Hakata and Shinagawa... Usually 3 hours is the magic number to be competitive with air... but it depends on a few factors. FUK is a VERY convenient airport to to downtown... so flying is easy... which is unusual as many Japanese airports are inconvenient. NRT and NGO are far from the city. KIX is closer, but still between 35-50 minutes depending on what part of Osaka you're going to (The Naniwa-suji line will reduce travel times, though). It's crazy to think that it will be almost as fast to get to Tokyo than KIX from North Osaka. Tokyo will be just as close as Wakayama city by train. I agree that the number of flights between Osaka and Tokyo will drastically go down. They leave hourly now. Although there will also be a need for connecting international flights... so hopefully there will still be more options.
@HimanshuShekhar1
@HimanshuShekhar1 3 жыл бұрын
Another GREAT video. Thank you SO MUCH
@user-wt2rz3bv9u
@user-wt2rz3bv9u 3 жыл бұрын
動画を拝見しました。”もし”リニアが開業してJR東の新幹線が品川まで延伸したら便利になるでしょうね。 この動画はほかのどの動画よりもわかりやすいし、情報もたくさん入っているしとても勉強になります。この動画で高速試験車に食堂車と寝台車があったことを初めて知りました。
@ondrejsedlak4935
@ondrejsedlak4935 3 жыл бұрын
I keep forgetting about the 50/60Hz oddity. Had it explained in great detail by a Kansai Electric employee once. Quite an interesting story... Thank you for the video. Always a pleasure watching your stuff.
@acmenipponair
@acmenipponair Жыл бұрын
Meanwhile in Europe we run Trains on three different frequencies and 4 different Voltages and still have TGV and ICE going straight from Munich or Frankfurt to Paris. In the age of three-phase electric motors it doesn't matter so much anymore as in the past what your electric system is running on, as you can build the transformers smaller = transformers for different electric system on the same engine.
@wellyalb
@wellyalb 3 жыл бұрын
thanks for making this video. greeting from Indonesia.
@zycklacon9588
@zycklacon9588 3 жыл бұрын
good video !
@rbrbirbi
@rbrbirbi 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for video
@denysvlasenko1865
@denysvlasenko1865 2 жыл бұрын
Connected, but unrealized sleeping car... I will have nightmares about having an unreal car in my consist :D
@vladislav148
@vladislav148 2 жыл бұрын
I think both companies will choose easier variant: if passenger numbers on Tokkaydo Shinkansen drop up to 10-20 percents with opening of Chuo Shinkansen, JR Central can hand over track number 14 to JR East; track can be extended to the north, cutted on the south and entirely converted to JR East signalling and electrification. Passengers can be offered through tickets, comfortable barrier-less cross-platform interchange and something like agreed timetable of trains - that trains will arrive to two sides of platform and depart from it on the same time
@jacekhozejowski2869
@jacekhozejowski2869 3 жыл бұрын
Are there no technical tracks connecting these two networks for MOW vehicles?
@JPRailcom
@JPRailcom 3 жыл бұрын
If JR Central and JR East want to connect the tracks, anything can be solved. Both companies don't want to do it now, so they aren't connected.
@ewanmcgregor146
@ewanmcgregor146 3 жыл бұрын
MOW vehicles for the two different Shinkansen networks are owned and operated separately by the two companies at Tōkyō Station. Also, JR Central uses Doctor Yellow & JR East uses East-i, which are different types of trains.
@jacekhozejowski2869
@jacekhozejowski2869 3 жыл бұрын
@@ewanmcgregor146 yeah, but they're not the only types used. HoKi 800-based ballast hoppers are used all over the network.
@ewanmcgregor146
@ewanmcgregor146 3 жыл бұрын
@@jacekhozejowski2869 Even so, there is still no actual physical connection between the JRC & JRE Shinkansen lines at Tōkyō Station. The 2 newest tracks of the Tōkaidō Shinkansen (JRC), which follow the curve of the Tōhoku/Jōetsu Shinkansen (JRE) are still terminal tracks ending before the point where they would connect. So all rolling stock, including MOW, is separated between the two networks. However, there is still enough space to build a direct connection between the two networks at Tōkyō, if the two companies agree to it at a later time. Aside from disagreements between the 2 companies, I think it is also a legacy of just how late the Tōhoku Shinkansen reached Tōkyō Station. The original Tōkyō area terminal opened at Ōmiya in 1982, then was extended to Ueno in 1985, before FINALLY reaching Tōkyō in 1991. By contrast, the Tōkaidō Shinkansen had already been operating from Tōkyō since 1964!
@jacekhozejowski2869
@jacekhozejowski2869 3 жыл бұрын
@@ewanmcgregor146 was any MOW equipment moved ibetween sections? Including being towed on narrow gauge track.
@B-A-L
@B-A-L 3 жыл бұрын
If there was a direct service from Hakodate to Kagoshima would anyone even use it because it would be far cheaper and quicker to fly anyway? I don't see the different electricity supplies being a problem these days now because all they need to do is have the electric motors for the different systems in each alternate carriage similar to how the dual-gauge EH500 freight train works. They could even have the twin nose arrangement of the Alfa-X with the sharper nose always pointing South and the rounder nose always pointing North! Thanks for another great video, Takeshi-san!
@michaelhall4626
@michaelhall4626 3 жыл бұрын
@BAL GB Even now, there aren't any direct trains between Tokyo and Kagoshima, so even if the Tokaido and Tohoku/Joetsu Shinkansen were connected, I doubt any trains would run the whole length. More likely, it would still be a series of overlapping services. Like now (just considering the fastest services on each route), there's the Mizuho from Kagoshima to Shin-Osaka, the Nozomi from Hakata or Shin-Osaka (and possibly a few starting from Hiroshima, or was that Hikaris?) to Tokyo, and the Toki and the Hayabusa from Tokyo to Niigata and Hakodate, respectively. I'd expect the new services to maybe be an extension of the Nozomis starting from Shin-Osaka to Niigata and/or Sendai.
@B-A-L
@B-A-L 3 жыл бұрын
@@michaelhall4626 Yeah, Osaka to Sendai would make sense as a direct service, but tbh is it really worth the hassle for the train companies when its easy enough to change trains anyway?
@kuanysh_sartay
@kuanysh_sartay 3 жыл бұрын
@@michaelhall4626 However, it wasn't a problem for China to link Beijing and HongKong directly, there are 2200 km between them. Maybe, it will be possible to connect Sapporo to Fukuoka, after Alfa-X trains will be introduced. I think, if the maximum speed of trains in this route will be approx 400 km/h and the average speed about 330-350 km/h, it will be possible to reach Fukuoka from Sapporo by 6 hours. Not so much time than the plane, maybe just for 20 min or 30 min more, if we'll consider all the procedures in airport, way to airport and etc.
@mikegaskin5542
@mikegaskin5542 3 жыл бұрын
@@michaelhall4626 There is (or was, pre-pandemic) a Hiroshima-bound Nozomi leaving Tokyo every hour from 7:42 AM to 7:42 PM. Tokyo-originating Hikaris only make it as far as Okayama, except for Hikari 521 at 5:03 PM which goes all the way to Hiroshima. As the evening gets later the trains terminate closer and closer to Tokyo. Here is a visualization I made of Shinkansen departures from Tokyo: miro.com/app/board/o9J_knd9NrQ=/
@B-A-L
@B-A-L 3 жыл бұрын
@@kuanysh_sartay How much would a shinkansen ticket from Sapporo to Fukuoka cost though compared to an airline ticket? The other thing to consider is that JR East seems to be proudly fierce of its own image, hence producing its own distinct shinkansen designs as opposed to JR Central, JR West and JR Kyushu all sharing the same design. I can't see the Alfa-X being used as a crossover train between JR East and the others but it would be a good idea.
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