I swear this channel is just math class but a lot cooler

Americans: Feet Rest of the world: Meters Trans Theories: Megatrons

I like to think of Grindor and Blackout as not the same individual, but a separate characters. Brothers with a split spark. Like Skyquake and Dreadwing from Prime. Grindor felt Blackouts spark extinguished, and travel to earth to get revenge on his twin brother death.

Despite what most may believe about the bayverse, you’ve just gotta love the fact that there are so many inconsistencies to the point that anyone can come up with their own answers for whatever. In this case, I personally like the idea of them being seperate because it’s just funny imagining Blackout being cornered by a larger foe and saying “if you want to mess with me, you’ll have to mess with my brother”. Then walks in the 50 foot behemoth. I guess it would prove that energon is thicker than water.

While I love this theory, I found it strange how in the game Optimus said “Grindor don’t make the same mistake as your brother” (Blackout)🤷‍♂️

The fact that Blackout and Grindor are different characters and look the exact same. Makes me believe any character who switches into the same vehicle model as any other character will maintain the same appearance. Like if Thundercracker decided to show up in one movie I feel like he would look the same as Starscream if he took the form of an F-22 Raptor. You see robots like Brawl and Bonecrusher still roaming around but it’s probably not them.

I'm gonna take those lines from Optimus in the ROTF game to the heart. Blackout and Grindor being twin brothers sounds far more interesting than being the same person, similar to Dreadwing and Skyquake in Transformers: Prime.

0:55 ‘head cannon’ *casually shows Grindor’s head being destroyed by Optimus*

It's a good theory that's been going on for years but I like it better with them being different characters

I’m pretty sure the reason to why the Decepticons were dropped into the ocean is because the water would put so much pressure on the metal that they will eventually start to break much like the titanic did after all these years.That could be the reason a to why megatron needed parts

Here’s my take on this. Grindor and Blackout are twins and are both difficult to tell apart (besides their size) which covers the plot hole of Grindor’s supposed tactical smarts, the box manufacturer simply got them mixed up. Grindor is slightly younger than Blackout, only by about 3,000 years however. And Grindor is… mentally challenged because he was built beefy and strong which takes away from his mental capacity (small brain). Blackout promised his brother that he would never let anything bad happen to him, and that they will always stick together. Grindor and Blackout came to Earth in the first movie but Grindor got lost due to his incompetent nature. He shows up in the final battle of TF 2007 but before attacking, he sees his brother die, so he leaves and no one finds him. He then gets a signal in RoTF from Blackout that he is still alive so Grindor shows up for the forest battle and they tag team and switch places quickly every few minutes, hence why we see 50’ and 33’ Grindor (the shorter one is just Blackout). And of course, due to Grindor’s sheer size and small brain, Optimus executes him in badasssery fashion. Blackout goes to his brothers corpse after the battle, sees that he’s dead, and lives on to constantly hate himself for breaking his promise and then probably dies later idk. Edit: also, anyone saying, “if they swapped places how do they have the same battle damage” - they just happened to get hurt in the same places. Edit: i typed all of this before TT got to the “brother” part of the video lol what a coincidence Edit: all of this is useless as i still think they are the same dudes anyway

Considering there's a handful of Transformers but different color schemes have been ongoing since G1 for both Autobots and Decepticons, I'm not surprised. It's still common how the Seekers are MCs with different colors.

Another thing is when the all spark shard was used on megatron the energy field only radiated on his body and didn't go any further, plus blackout was in many different parts and each part was thrown down one at a time so his body parts are no doubt very far apart so if anything his parts would be used rebuild megatron and when it was used in Sam's kitchen their was a very small space filled with technology so that wasn't really a good argument, and as for for the first movie it was the actual all spark not a shard so no doubt it has great range. Idk if you even read any of this or my other comment I don't blame because it's a lot but you have to admit the theory you made in this vid has a lot of speculation

I like how because he was killed by Lennox he labels an insect, he changes his name and his whole personality and everything and still loses to prime with not having much screen time in the movie.

I always treat Blackout and Grindor as two separate characters. Blackout was the loyal goon, like Lugnut in Animated, while Grindor was the commander of the Decepticons, am original character that replaced Starscream as Megatron’s second-in-command of sorts. Meanwhile, after Blackout died, his and Scrapmetal’s parts were used to repair and improve Megatron’s design before he was revived, while Grindor died since Optimus dying was that important to Megatron that sacrificing Grindor would have been worth it.

Liking this one so far. You sound A LOT more natural on this one. I'm really glad that you were able to get that down. Something like this is a lot easier to listen to. I'm also glad that you point out the production reasons that this happened. It's nice to hear hard in canon theory for things but it's also important to consider the simplest reason. This is especially the case for a franchise like this that has as many inconsistencies in animation scale and continuity as Bethesda games have glitches. It's good that you mention that Bay defaults to rule of cool too. You also give some good in lore theories too.

Despite the visual continuity errors and whatnot, they really did manage to make it all look cool. I love the little detail of Grindor flipping his blades around at 3:45. It looks so awesome.

Mixmaster: “I thought we killed you!” Scrapmetal: “Well yes, but I lived!”

in my opinion they can be the same and different characters at the same time, because the decepticon scouts from the rotf final battle have the same head as Blackout and Grindor, i think that blackout might have been the original one of this decepticon race, then his dna got used to create clones and Grindor might be one of them and the rest are the decepticon scouts from the final battle.

There’s actually a simple answer to the radar error Scrapmetal was killed so the 7 that came back up were 5/6 of the cons that went down, as well as the 2 new additions, Megs and Blackout/Grindor

Maybe another theory video would be weapons misconceptions, for example: -rotf Megatron's fusion cannon (Where it goes) -Starscream's weaponry (Where in his arms) -Rachet's hand guns (No weapon kibble shown) -Lockdown's head gun and arm guns (Transforms but no weapon visuals) -Devastator's guns and missiles on body (Shown when combined, but none had weapons individually, like Scavenger and Scrapper)

It's a great theory that almost changed my mind but their are still some things that leave me unconvinced. Like megatron was killed by Sam and he didn't feel the need to change his name, he just felt the need for revenge. And TF wiki has Blackout listed as only being in Transformers 2007 not in rotf. And similar to how you said where was grindors combat specialties that he had, where was the mighty Blackout that he apparently was. Like you said he didn't do much in the fight, and if he was Blackout who was extremely loyal to megatron. Why didn't he help his master. In 2007 we see he gets out all his weapons as he prepares to fight and I'm sure that if he made it he would've went crazy when fighting optimus. But in the forest battle he just kinda watched as Megs was being destroyed. It just dosen't add up. Did his personality change when he was resurrected? And I've said this before but Blackout pleading for his life would dishonor him a lot as well. So Grindors actions don't match Blackout at all. And you could say maybe he doesn't want to die again so he tries to avoid fighting but then that would make him a coward which would also be dishonoring. And to support Grindor being a combat specialist, he doesn't help in the fight a lot because he's trying to study prime to predict a move because after he just walks around for a while and watches, he gets his blades out and charges. Plus if you watch the battle it seems like he waits for an opening. Then when prime is distracted by Megs and starscream he attacks. Also the scene where he attacks he is 50ft because you can see his legs are spread like he's doing a split like he's trying to get close and personal and when he gets hit away he tries to calculate a new approach. Anyway if you can answer these things (I know its a lot sorry) then you can change my mind

i am going to be brief and honest this video hit me in the childhood,my first ever transformers toy was a very cheap blackout toy,not from hasbro or anything but you could tell it was him,i really got hyped when blackout attacked the Qatar base,and then in ROTF,despite grindor being a different decepticon,i liked that it was insanely tall,and how he got clapped was pretty cool too,now you tell me they are the same and i get to believe that the same badass blackout from 2007 it's the same one from ROTF that gets clapped in an epic way,amazing video,you really did cover more than just the tittle of the video,those were well invested 26minutes,keep it up good work!! :D

I think it's two different characters. Some Transformers characters have the same designs. Here's more: 1. Crankcase and Berserker 2. Rampage and Skipjack 3. Bumblebee and Cliffjumper 4. Long Haul and Onslaught 5. Crowbar and Dreadbot

I prefer to think that they are two different characters because its common for cybertronians to have the same body type like onslaught and longhaul. Also because of the different size

I always thought that they were the same character but then I figured out that Grindor was actually believe it or not taller than Blackout. So then I thought the reason they "killed the little one," for Megatron is because they uses most of the parts of the other decepticons for Blackout's revival so they could have more troops

if grindor wasnt an individual character then the constructicon cloning would be logical on him too since blackout is so loyal to decepticons that he would be honored to give out his body's schematics for cloning

New video idea. Tech or characters from other media that would give humanity an fighting chance against the Decepticons in a all-out war. My recommendation would be the tech from Fallout. See how Decepticons fare against power armor, laser rifles, plasma rifles, sentry bots, Mini nukes, and most importantly LIBERTY PRIME!

I always loved playing as him in Transformers 2007 and Revenge of Fallen so much cool animation and his shockwave blast was too op it coud destroy entire buildings!

I actually just realized that Blackout changing his alt mode makes a lot of sense, given that he no longer has Scorpinok, who formed Blackout's main engine. So without his engine, he'd need to scan a new alt mode to replace it.

Quite some impressive research that went into this! Glad I was able to be of help in some regard.

Hear me out boys, what if their both different characters but at the forest battle, both grindor and blackout were present, unfortunately the way they shot the film both characters were never in the same scene, this would explain why in the film grindor changes sizes a couple times, the whole time both decepticons we’re present… when blackout saw grindor got his head adjusted he decided to fall back off screen… (obviously this isn’t true, but come on we all love more decepticons)

18:10 we saw it in bumblebee i know everybody wants a reboot but it still hasnt been officially confirmed and all the movies connect perfectly😬

Excellent video. Glad to find someone making quality transformers videos after all these years. I'm excited to see what comes up in the new beast war trilogy.

I only recently found this channel and have been a long time Transformers fan, but I’m still learning new things and I love how your videos are so informative and share many different views to theories because everyone can look at them differently and its super cool to hear what other people observe and how it can change a scene. Thank you for the awesome work, I’ll be binging these videos to get me through the day!

I was already invested in the Blackout is Grindor theory for a long time ever since a previous video on the channel. But dang, you really out did yourself.

Until today I thought “Grindor” was just Blackout.

While it is an interesting theory, Hasbro and the film creators have said the two are different, separate characters from each other. I can see why people would think the two are one and the same......Similar robot and vehicle forms and all that.....The fact is that it's likely a case of reused designs and assets, a practice that got carried over into the later films.....A second Bonecrusher-type Decepticon, another Audi R8 Decepticon, Berserker and Dreadbot being rather similar to Crowbar and Crankcase, Onslaught having a robot form that is just a slightly redesigned version of Long Haul's to suit Onslaught's vehicle form.......A scrapped Hatchet look-alike, for which there is only concept art of, to complete the Dread trio for _The Last Knight._ Just to name a few........But it is possible that Hasbro is talking out of their butt, and merely saying that to sell toys by saying they're separate characters......

This video was amazingly well researched. I loved the size comparisons, attention to the individual rustspots, and research into all mentions of the character. Excellently done work here.

Anyone noticed, that in forest battle, when Grindor is accidentally hit by Starscream's rocket, that destroys this thing above his head, his rotor keeps staying in place, unattached to the rest of body? One of CGI mistakes.

I still consider them Decepticon twins. It’s like the toys of Bee and Cliffjumper in 07, same body design but slightly different color schemes.

Another great theory! And personally one of the most believable ones, especially since it seems many of the people involved in the movies think the same

Agree, the 50' mark was way too much, but can we say it was something in between? Like 42' tall?

I knew Blackout came back as Grindor in the second Transformers and I knew I was right!

in my opinion the point about the size of robot modes and alt modes not matching up isn’t that big a problem since bonecrusher was able to transformers into vehicle around the same size as brawl’s whilst being a lot bulkier and larger build wise then brawl but aside from this theory is sound and very well done and it’s made me reconsider whether grindor and blackout are the same or not though i’d still like to believe they’re different

I love black out and grindor there designs are unique and cool.

Thank you! We've been needing a breakdown of this topic for awhile now

I love this channel so much it’s so wholesome and straight to the point

Love the mind boggling explaination!! Blackout is one of my fav transformer together with Ironhide, they're both cool!

It would make sense that grindor waited befor surficing to get a New vehicle Mode because His old one was Discountinued so he couldn't hide.

I never noticed all the discrepancies in size O_O. Excellent analysis, the change of vehicle mode makes perfect sense. This is my new headcanon now.

I love your longer vids. Hope there's more soon! Also, you sound much more natural in this one. Keep it up man!

6:25 well in transformers:Age Of Extinction the evasion mode Optimus could make his windows and grill bigger when transforming into truck and in generation one they could actually do that when transforming for instance:Soundwave

This was amazing as always I knew you wouldn’t disappoint

personally, I think that sideways' "reappearance' was actually dead end and brawl was bludgeon I also think its possible that when grindor appears smaller, he is crouching I also think michael bay would've made grindor 50 feet in that shot just to be funny with bumblebee, I think its possible that bumblebee was standing a little bit away from prime

i always thought they were brothers. if they were the same character in terms of the series, why change names? i mean its possible that he got revived after megatron did but why change names?

I was legitimately thinking about this the other day....then you did a video haha love it! Keep going man! 200K UP NEXT!

I was never really in both camps but this was a very solid theory and it very much makes sense that both are the same, looking forward to the next theory

So pretty much blackout is grindor but with a different vehicle and taller

Once again, excellent video,most KZfaq channels about movie theories are bias but your not bias at all! You also always speak to the point and among all theories channels, you're the least far fetched and most convincing and logical, nice job!👍👍 But did something happen behind the scenes when you said -"uhh,when was that? He got his ass handed to him",cause it sounded like you were genuinely annoyed, just a question,I mean,I watched alot of your videos but the energy there sounds different,or is it just me?🤔

thanks for doing so much just for your viewers. You really went deep into every single detail to help us better understand the films. you are amazing, keep it up!

Hey trans it’s great to see you posting again love your vid bro💙

Your voice makes me wanna blow my ears out with the heaviest music I can find just to drown you out. Your voice makes me wanna rock back and forth in the corner chanting "his name isn't grin-DOOR" for hours

the radar didn’t pick him up because he didn’t move, remember you said after megatron sunk the submarine helicopters came and grindor scanned them after megatron and everyone else left

When I first saw him I was kinda confused that didn't he die already but with your theory I kinda agree it's blackout but with a new name. And it wouldn't be wrong to think there are blackout looking Decepticons since in G1 there were countless Starscreams and with Blackout's size, weapons, and strength it wouldn't seem like a bad idea to have an army of blackouts. And isn't it confusing that Bumblebee in the 07 movie transforms when sector 7 brought cars and helicopters, It literally shows his robot parts going into the area where the seats are in car mode, but when he finally transforms into his vehicle form the inside of his car mode is now hollow and has the seats, is there a in universe explanation for that? Or did the robot parts disappear magically or did the robot parts like turn into seats? Just wondering bro and I love this video ^^

Nice video bro and i would not be surprise if they called him Grindor so they can keep the trademark on his name because they 1st used it back in 2002 for the UNICRON TRILOGY so i would not be surprise if that is what happen

I personally though that Blackout and Grindor where just have the same body type, similar to Long Haul and Onslaught.

19:40 Actually I think Grindor is the 6th contact, as it wouldn't make sense for the navy to pick up 6 contacts, as Scrapmetal is dead, thus they would only detect 5 contacts. Unless, they also resurrected Blackout.

I love the height consistency bits! If you can, can you make a video on everytime the height of the transformers are adjusted? Could be a fun video

Nice vid Trans. I've always had this theory for awhile and seeing you make a video on it makes me happy. I personally think that when Blackout was revived in from the shard shockwave, any other remaining parts in the area made him bigger, and allowed for his massive body to compress in his "small" vehicle mode, which is why I think he mostly stayed in vehicle mode prior to the forest battle. I'd like to see you make a video about Soundwave and his timeline in the series, similar to your Barricade timeline video. I'd like you to explain what he did on cybertron, his collaboration and relationship with humans, all his minions, what he did prior to the 07 movie, what he did in between films, his rearrival to earth after RotF, and what happened to him after his eventual fate

I would agree about the whole Blackout thing. Maybe the reason why Blackout had cables from the Pav-low is because when he was dismantled and when he was buried, they forgot about the cable parts of his body, and when he scanned his new vehicle mode, the cables were an additional part of the vehicle mode. the one thing about him is that the cables were gone when he turned into robot mode. if Optimus was next to Grindor, Optimus needs a clone of himself to reach Grindor's height.

Maybe the toy bio saying that Grindor lays out every moment of a battle in his head before the first shot is fired is, if we are assuming Grindor is Blackout, actually another reason to back up why Blackout didn't just use his big EMP blasts in the final battle of the '07 film. The only issue with this theory is why does Grindor just do almost nothing in the forest battle in ROTF.

BlackOut and Grindor being brothers I'm Okay with even tho that's technically not possible

It’s confirmed that Grindor and Blackout are separate.

Love the video. For the height difference between scenes, one obvious in universe I find is mass shifting, that is when a transformers change its robot form and its alternative form, one example I have is in G1 where humans look like ants compared to Soundwave when he's in robot mode and yet when he transform into a cassette tape, he becomes small enough to be picked up by a human (I don't believe G1 explains why it happened but it was in the comics).

I have been manifesting a new upload! 🙌

I personally think that Grinder is a failed clone of Blackout due to the rust being a sign of accelerated growth and was created on the Nemesis using one of the hatchlings off camera. Granted I know Megatron is rusted, but he was revived using the shard and likely being kept alive due to some connection to the fallen.

I like to think they are clones, like an experiment conducted by Shockwave.

I think even if blackout could still transform into his pave low. He would stick out due to the fact by the time revenge of the fallen rolls around, the MH-53 was already retired. So he scanned the super stallion to blend in better.

This theory is pretty believable but it's left me with one question: if the shard can revive blackout and scrapmetal with them being mangled heaps, then why did scalpel need scrapmetals parts to rebuild megatron?

It makes sense. It also explains why he's weaker in rotf than in 2007. Sense revived characters are significantly weaker then their past selves e.g rotf megatron.

I like the video man but there's one big problem with it though. In one of your previous videos you said transformers can adjust their height the color scheme and other aspects of their body. But I love the theory.

thats exactly what i was thinking on why he changed his name and your very smart on narrowing down things and giving us a answer

Haven’t watched you in a long time glad to be back :)

I am early but I just wanted to say I am a big fan keep up the great work and you've made me appreciate the live action movies more then I thought I ever would

The scrapmetal that combines into devastator could be a drone/clone, which is not new in your headcannon and theories because thats the explanation you used to explain the existance of other mixmasters, longhauls, scrappers... etc. Or maybe the one who was sacrificed was a clone. Meaning that he wasnt revived and that transformers with missing limbs cannot be revived. I support your theory of Blackout and Grindor being the same but i wanted to mention this too. Also, when you mentioned the six Contacts part in the theory, the sixth contact in Blackout: The tiger, mixmaster, longhaul, rampage, Blackout and Megatron. Scrapmetal was completely destroyed so he is not counted as a contact.

Blackout was dismantled into multiple parts so I feel that it would be reasonable that he had to repair himself or rebuild himself since he was not repaired by the Constructicons. Doing so would require more time to do so than it would for the others to get to the surface.

Blackout and grinder being different are actually a thing this has been seen in transformers prime such as dreadwing and skyquake sharing a same spark

Theirs no logic in the Bayverse

This was some amazing analogy! i guess Grindor is truly Blackout back from the dead which now lives up to the movie title "revenge of the fallen".

I love this type of videos. I can't sleep because of this scalling issues, because it affects which figure class should I buy next to line up with my collection.

Noice vid, also, I think I have brought this subject up before but, I would like to see a vid of "how general sharp survived the base attack?" Thay would be cool

The super stallion is also a bigger helicoptor. That's why hes bigger.

Awesome as always

I was having a good day but now it’s better when you upload it’s always a great day

What if blackout stayed underwater for a little bit to bring bonecrusher and brawl back up to sea that's why we see bonecrusher later on in the movie and we saw brawl in dark of the moon

we all love this guy, you can't deny.

I love all your vids, keep up the great work.

Can't wait for your next vid on why they were dismantling, also congrats on graduating to

Good video, pal. Also, I have a suggestion for the next video. It's about Demolishor's & Sideways' death. While they are...or should i say...WERE Decepticons, on-screen, they never really caused harm intentionally. Demolishor was one hell of a mountain so the destruction he caused was likely by instinct & self-defense. Whatever he did was just an act of cornered animals. Running away. Sideways was just running away from human. Hell, the only damage he caused was a big hole of an apartment. No human was harmed by him. Yet he got a gruesome death by Sideswipe. Their deaths are still controversial because they were killed without any explanation other than because of their allegiance. If you think about it, it's a softcore variant of discrimination.