Also in Mr. Collins' favor as a marital partner is the confidence that he will never be abusive, never cheat on his wife or spend their money on drink or gambling. He takes his responsibilities as a husband very seriously and will be devoted to his wife and children. In fact, he may be a much better father than husband, and what wife doesn't want a loving, steady father for their offspring?

Mr Collins was mocked for trying to marry Jane or Lizzie, but he should have received some thanks for this. He knew that he would inherit the estate after Mr Bennet's death and that would render the daughters and mother homeless. In offering marriage to one of the daughters he was trying to give them a home and settled future, he did not need to do so. Mr Bennet had made no provision for his daughters future whilst Mr Collins tried to do so.

I always thought it was cool that Charlotte laments that girls can never really get to know a guy before marriage because they're always wearing a public persona at parties and such. Mr Collins spills his guts to her after a heartbreak so she knows all his baggage and exactly what she's getting into before she commits to him.

So basically Charlotte is taking a job that compensates her well enough to have a comfortable life, with good advancement prospects, and all she has to do is put up with a single annoying coworker, who she can assign other tasks to keep the contact tolerable. Honestly if I didn't have to have sex with the guy, I'd take it.

The older I get the more I appreciate CharlotteLucas’s assessment of her situation and the opportunity presenred by Mr. Collins. I know full well how satisfying a snug house and garden can be.

Couldn't agree more! Charlotte went into that marriage with her eyes wide open, she made the best of he situation, and she secured herself a financially secure future for her, and for her children who would grow up having more than she EVER did. I don't think she would ever truly love Mr. Collins in a romantic sense, but I do think she had genuine regard for the many good things he brought to the table, and the future he ended up providing her with, and I am sure she would find genuine happiness as a mother as well, so... while it might never be the big epic romance of Lizzy and Darcey, she certainly had her own VERY well deserved happy ending too.

Charlotte also made the right choice FOR Mr. Collins. She had the patience to work with him and improve his understanding and his manners. By the time they moved into Longbourn many years in the future I can see that he would have changed to be a credit and worth to the property and the area. Also Charlotte with her patience and personality she would have raised their children in better understanding and manners. So yes, it was a good match for Charlotte but frankly it was a better match for Mr. Collins. He only sought a wife, a woman who said yes, he could have ended up with some young pretty silly girl - but with Charlotte he married someone who would encourage him, better him, promote him and help him.

Lizzie is doing what's right for her and Charlotte what's right for her - both did the right thing with regard to Mr Collins. Charlotte knew this and eventually Lizzie does too.

Not to mention that in the book Mr.Collins is approximately 25 years old. Plenty of time to grow and improve one's character. Especially led and molded by a good sensible wife.

Not only was Elizabeth genuinely happy for Charlotte when she saw her happy in her married household, Mr. Collins forgave Elizabeth for spurning him and he was clearly also very happy with the arrangement. I think Charlotte was capable of steering him socially and also made the best of her alone time.

Mr Collins is definitely a better husband than Mr Wickham :D

I agree. Charlotte was the eldest daughter, with only a small dowry (if any), and facing the future of being a dependent in a relative's home. Now she has a husband with a decent income, possibly children, a house of her own, and likely to be the mistress of Longbourn in the future.

Charlotte Lucas made the only real choice she could have made at the time. For her, Mr Collins is pretty much the best choice she could make.

Charlotte has an extremely logical person and has no real vanity or overwhelming pride so she can look at Mr. Collins' proposal clear-eyed as to the material advantages. This character trait in her is also shown through her following Lady Catherine's advice about household matters. Most women might take exception to being told what to do concerning the minutiae of day-to-day life but Charlotte again looks at things with a clear eye and pride-free. If Lady Catherine tells her to do something, (like using green sage to get rid of ants,) she is happy to take the advice, realizing it's to her advantage to do so. She does not allow herself to be offended and only considers the merit of what is being said, without involving her ego or concerning herself about Lady Catherine's overbearing nature.

There’s a reason an eligible bachelor was called a “catch”. She threw out the bait and he took it! She made a good choice for her and her situation. And she didn’t try to take her friend’s (or sister’s) man (I’m talking to you, Scarlett O’Hara! She made sure Lizzie didn’t want him first.

I think P&P is a good study in how we tend to assign strength of character to people who are charming and how we easily dismiss the character of those who are awkward. Because Mr. Collins is a Bore (not boring, a "Bore" is quite different) he is assumed to be bad husband material by the Bennett sisters (not just Lizzy). Because Wickham is pleasant company, he is assumed to be good husband material by the Bennet sisters. I agree that Mr. Collins is a fundamentally moral man. His initial letter to Mr. Bennett implies that he is uncomfortable with their current family strain. He wanted to honor his father's dispute with Mr. Bennett (?!?!?!?), but he decided it best to connect with them & become family again. He wasn't just going to propose to whichever Bennett girl because they were "easy pickings" and pretty as well. He felt a moral obligation to propose to one of them--which meant he couldn't bear the thought of sending them off to a life of poverty. (He probably would have proposed to Mary next, if Charlotte hadn't intervened.)

I think people often criticize the characters in 1800s novels by 2020 standards. Times were different then, peoples’ expectations for their lives were different then, and possibilities and opportunities for women were also different from those of today. These historical romances must be viewed through the lens of the times they represented. We must remember that zeitgeist… The spirit of the times...in which they were set.

Completely agree. She really had no options and he almost literally fell in her lap as her perfect savior to a life of misery. Cunning yes, and brilliant.

Mr Darcy himself was a fan of the Collins' marriage and household.

Great video! It really made me think. One point in particular that you made, is that Mr. Collins in easily influenced, especially by women. Charlotte recognizes this, and must realize that in marrying him she will not only be securing her future, but controlling it as well. She makes this clear to Lizzie during the visit, where she shows how she has set up their home completely to her advantage, but without letting Mr Collins know. She will definitely be "the power behind the throne" in their relationship. Letting her husband think he is the head of the household, but quietly running the show. Charlotte has been powerless her whole life, but now she has power and can control the narrative of her future. True, her husband isn't a dashing handsome romantic figure, like Mr Darcy or Mr Bingley, but as she herself says, she's not a romantic. She wanted a comfortable, secure future. And she obtained that all on her own. She saw an opportunity and seized it, undoubtedly being warm and sympathic to Mr Collins when his pride was wounded. Perhaps the Bennet sisters did not see his value, but SHE certainly did! Frankly, Charlotte was the best thing to ever happen to Mr Collins, and I hope her appreciated her!

I completely agree that Charlotte did exactly the right thing not only for herself but Mr. Collins as well. I have always felt a little sorry and embarrassed for him. He seemed like a lonely and sad person whose social awkwardness made him adopt scripts for interactions that were perceived as fawning and uncomfortable by those around him. His kindness comes through in mending the family dispute and trying to offer himself up as husband to Lizzy so she and her family would be able to continue to have stability and not have to leave the family home. Charlotte is the perfect mate for him.She is steady and wise and free of any overly romantic expectations that he would never be able to fulfill. I was always glad they found one another.

Many ppl think it's a bad idea, not everyone. I never faulted Charlotte for her choice. She was being realistic and made the best choice for her future. She explains her situation well.

I appreciate your perspective. It is important that, though Charlotte is a neighbor of Elizabeth and a good friend she actually came from a family that was in a lower social class than Elizabeth's was. So Mr. Collins' behavior, his breach of social etiquette and his sycophantic behavior toward Lady Catherine was embarrassing to Elizabeth it wasn't to Charlotte. Also Charlotte was a very practical young lady. She was raised to manage her income well, and she was pragmatic about marriage. I think her goals in life were quite different than Elizabeth's. She had fewer options and didn't want to be a spinster and she saw that Mr. Collins was manageable.

I totally agree with you that Charlotte made a good choice in marrying Mr. Collins. It is apparent when Lizzie visits that she is happy to have a home of her own and her status as the wife of a clergyman. She had so few prospects because of the limits of her life in Maryton and her age which was considered advanced. She is not romantic and doesn't feel that she has to be in love. I think you are quite right in comparing it to a career choice. She is able to gently manipulate Mr. Collins so that she controls their domestic life, and he is very happy with his marriage. They are well suited.

Charlotte knew that Lizzie had hurt Mr. Collins pride and all she had to do was stroke his pride and she could land him.

Excellent analysis!! I agree wholeheartedly. Charlotte was a very practical women and made the best choice for herself. Mr. Collins was a good catch for the time. Good for Charlotte.

Great video topic and good discussion! There are two things that are often overlooked here and that is the difference in Elizabeth and Charlotte's temperments/personalities and (perhaps more importantly) their ages. Charlotte and 27 and Elizabeth is 20. She has the freedom of youth still in her choices that Charlotte just doesn't have.

Such a good discussion! I agree with you all points! And Elizabeth herself sees that Charlotte is actually happy in her marriage 🤗

I’m totally on Charlotte’s side as she had to think of her own future and so you can sympathise with her. I’m her case she deserves a chance 😊

I think Charlotte Lucas made a good choice. Elizabeth Bennet is prejudiced towards Mr. Collins because she sees him as totally ridiculous, but not everyone has the same way of seeing things. Also, Mr. Collins is so much younger than he's normally portrayed. I'll bet in ten years' time he could have settled into a more well-rounded individual.

I think that Pride and Prejudice was written at a time when ideas about getting married were transitioning from the idea of linking families in a judicious way to the idea that marriage could take account of the personal desires of the couple. Working against this transition was the fact that the enclosure laws were making many families suddenly poorer so young people needed to think carefully about the threat of poverty. Elizabeth covers both bases when her struggles to overcome her prejudices against Darcy are helped by seeing his large, expensive home. Charlotte is quietly sensible, making the choice that many people do today in arranged marriages, to get married and then let emotions gradually warm as much as possible. She loves being the mistress of her own shared home and enjoys the knowledge that she's a married woman in a society that values marriage.

Agreed. I always thought the Collins marriage a very good one, all things considered. Both got just what they wanted in marriage, thanks to Charlotte's pragmatism and Mr. Collins' obliviousness.

Thirty seconds into your video and already I can say, „you’re right!“ a lot of modern readers don’t get that the title isn’t just referring to Darcy‘s faults, but Lizzie‘s as well. Charlotte is a brilliant example of how wrong Lizzie‘s judgement was... Jane Austen‘s minor characters are really very interesting. I wished there was a drone to hear the conversation when Charlotte ran down to accidentally meet Mr Collins in the lane, and how she turned that conversation into marrying her. Great video!

It was definitely a golden opportunity for Charlotte in her situation, and I like your extra positive take on it. And you know what, though Mr. Collins is clearly super insecure, he is well-meaning at heart. Charlotte's accepting, sensible nature probably brought out the best in him. He probably even got a bit less insufferable. 😂

Charlotte made a good marriage, considering her situation. She was a plain spinster, who would continue to be dependent until she died. When she married Mr. Collins, she acquired her own home and a husband who will treat her kindly, if only because that is his image of himself. There is an estate to look forward to. If she produces a son or two, the estate is secured and so is her future. Lizzy can think differently about mrriage because she is pretty and only 19.

I enjoyed your analysis. Modern women view romance as the only aspect of marriage worth judging and wake up after the wedding to the financial and social realities of having a family. Charlotte is a refreshing counter balance to Lizzy's romanticism.

I've always liked Charlotte's character. She is a practical and open-minded person. She was born in an era where women were in a very precarious situation, if they were not born rich or marry well, they'd have a hard life for want of finances. Charlotte knew her future was not secure: being one of many siblings in a family of modest means. She was very realistic, she knew that she was not very pretty and she was getting on in age ( in that society ) so she took the best choice she had to improve her life. And not everyone has the luxury to marry for love. Mr.Collins is a foolish but nonetheless good man. He's not violent, a drunkard etc. So I always felt that Charlotte is real. Let's be honest, in real life handsome rich gentlemen don't offer for ladies they consider beneath them.

I actually love Charlotte she is my favourite character . I think considering the time she made a great choice. Elizabeth was so lucky what if Mr Darcy didn't fall in love with her or he became angry or put off when she first rejected him. Sad truth is for women in this time period a good marriage could mean the difference between a comfortable life or being destitute.

I totally agree that mr. Collins was a great opportunity for Charlotte. He had an income, a house, a patronage and would move up in the class of the lower gentry when mr. Bennet died as he was the heir to his estate. Besides the fact that she was practical and knew that this marriage would secure her future, she new that mr. Collins was pliable and she could steer him. And marriage meant the chance of children and even if she couldn't love him as a hsband, she could love the children they could have. For her mr. Collins was the golden lottery ticket to a secure future, a family and her own home opposed to the rest of your life being dependend on others goodwill.

I absolutely agree. I would also say, that while Lizzy herself may not agree with Charlotte's views on marriage, or indeed approve of her marriage to Mr. Collins, the actual narrative perspective impression from the book is far less disapproving, if at all. I think many people are misled by Lizzy's POV as she is the main protagonist and we see most of the story from her view point. Not only does Austen take the trouble to make Charlotte's views and situation understandable so we can relate to her choice, despite Lizzy's condemnation, but she also shows that Charlotte is quite comfortable and happy in her marriage. That even if it wasn't the love match that Lizzy was arguing for, it achieved what Charlotte longed for; a safe and secure future for herself with a comfortable home that she could arrange to her liking. My take is that Austen is saying that while what Lizzy's way is to be preferred, realistically not everyone will have that luxury, but that does not mean that those who do not can't achieve happiness or contentment in their marriage.

When I first came across P&P, I myself was a young girl all about romance and passion and pitied Charlotte for her choices. I used to think she deserved better and she just settled but now in my adulthood, I know what she did was the most sensible choice. She wanted stability for herself financially and otherwise. Lizzie was brilliant and beautiful and had at least family class. Charlotte knew her own situation and chosed to make the most of it. Maybe today not many women would choose such path but at that time with no career and no independence, it was the right decision for her. Even today there are women who choose in such way and it's not like they are not happy. Coz I believe happiness comes from within us not from outside.

That practical, shrewd, clever Charlotte! She has always been my fave, and indeed a role model to me! You have set this out very well.

I adore Charlotte Lucas! She saw an opportunity to make a comfortable life for herself, she had the cunning and courage to charge right in and bend the situation to benefit her. nd she did all that without hurting anyone else. I was so proud of her. Charlotte is the unsung hero of Jane Austen.

Charlotte’s smart. She knew what she wanted and she went for it. Unlike Lizzie, she doesn’t have the privilege of wealth and youth to wait for love. She saw an opportunity and she jumped on it. And I respect her for that

Thanks for this. I have always thought that Lizzy Bennett was too hard on Charlotte Lucas. It seemed to me that, short of some very unlikely proposal of marriage being made, Charlotte Lucas made a smart choice. During her visit to the Collins's Lizzy herself remarked that Charlotte was coping skillfully with her very irritating husband. Charlotte would evidently make the best of a situation that, although hardly ideal, was probably her best (quite possibly only) chance for escaping a horrible fate.

I have always held the same opinion that Charlotte made a deliberate prudent choice suitable to many. She also is of a temperament that handles Lady Catherine well. Thanks for explaining this marriage decision so well.

I agree about Charlotte's marriage to Mr. Collins being a wise and opportune choice which will be beneficial both to herself and to her family in all practical and material ways. Practicality and prudence are Charlotte's primary qualities and equip her admirably to be a clergyman's wife and later on the mistress of an estate. She is also extremely patient and forbearing, essential virtues for any woman embarking on marriage with the likes of Mr, Collins! She also sees that she can subtly manipulate him to do what she wants, like leave her alone in her private parlour while getting him to spend much of his time outside working in the garden, thus setting limits on the amount of time she has to spend with him. Hers is by far the stronger character. I actually have always thought that because of her influence over him, she would never allow him to turn the Bennet women out of Longbourne when he inherits the estate. The one thing I disagree with you about is her falling in love with him, at least not in any romantic or passionate sense. I think this is made clear by her dispassionate assessment of his decidedly unlovable and foolish character and her practical analysis of her reasons for marrying him----in her own words "preservation from want." But romance and a grand passion are not what Charlotte is looking for, partly because she knows that that will not happen for her, as she explains to an unbelieving Lizzie. And the narrative voice in the novel----which we can assume to be the author's----is completely on Charlotte's side, rather than her heroine's, who is absolutely aghast by Charlotte's engagement. Charlotte is the realist, while Lizzie is the romantic, who cannot imagine marrying without love, however slim the chances of finding it in a very confined world, which expects young women to "marry well," might be.

Also, he shows honour and a sense of fairness by trying to ensure that the Bennett's home stays with the Bennett family.

I mean, if these women were talking about jobs instead of husbands, everyone could see Charlotte's perspective. And let's be honest, with the financial dependence, Husband-hunting and job hunting aren't much different. Lizzy wants a job that allows her intelligence to shine, Jane wants a job with nice people and a good environment and Charlotte, who is 27 and living in her parents basement, just wants an okay job, so she sees Mr. Collins and think eh, I can make it work, and eventually takes on a managerial position and works around the annoying financier.

I completely agree with you. Charlotte made a good decision in marrying him. She may never feel a romantic love for her husband, passionate love, but that is not the only worthwhile love one can have for one's husband.

So Lady Catherine de Bourgh is like his mother! That's why he's so obsessed with her! His own mother didn't give him any attention, and now he has an older woman who does! That's actually really sweet, in a way.

I agree Charlotte was very much in control of the situation. Keeping in mind the way things were for women in that era, which is what all Jan Austin's book were point in out.

I'm so with you on that, in fact I had this exact video title on my "to record" list, then saw this video and decided you said everything I wanted to 😂 I would have definitely made the same choice as Charlotte in her position. Love is good, but a safe home and stable income are more important when you're a woman near the end of your marriageable age with no legal powers and no personal wealth in the Regency. Brilliant video, I like how you included examples from other Austen works to show what alternative options Charlotte realistically had.

I think when life gave her lemons...she made lemonade!

First, Charlotte had no other prospects for marriage. She studied his character and found that she would be able to stomach him and "manage" him. Second, Mr. Collins will eventually inherit Mr. Bennets property since it was entailed. And in the meantime he had a house and income. She made an amazing match. And he lucked out.

I’ve never faulted Charlotte for marrying Mr. Collins. She saw her chance and she took it. You go girl, get that marriage!

I agree whole-heartedly. Plus, Charlotte will only have to put up with Lady Catherine until Mr. Collins inherits, then she becomes landed gentry. She also has Mr. Bennett for a model. He too has an annoying spouse.

I agree. She sees her empty future, observes mr collins as a possible deliverer and takes the opportunity. She loves her comfortable little home, her chickens and garden ( cared for by her husband, which gives her a break from his gabbiness!) and at the last has the joy and purpose of motherhood. Good choice, Charlotte! Given the times she lived in, wisdom.

I agree with your assessment. Real love is not only between beautiful, witty, and fun people, but also for plain, ordinary people. Sure Mr. Collins is painted as a bumbling, silly man, but he is a moral man (though with some hard to swallow values by today’s standards) and a devoted husband. He speaks very highly of Charlotte and you never hear him mock, criticize, or belittle her as Mr. Bennett does to his wife. Provided they work on the relationship, Charlotte and Mr. Collins can have a very good marriage. Ultimately nobody stays in love without also nurturing their relationship.

I have to agree with you. Charlotte was thinking of the big picture. Lizzie being younger wasn't at that point. Plus many of us who read P & P put ourselves in Charlotte's shoes and are disturbed that Mr. Collins is seen as a good catch from our modern point of view. Charlotte isn't modern in the same way as we are. She was modern for her time. All the points you mentioned in the video apply. Our views on romance and our expectations of what marriage and love should be about are not how Charlotte thought. I still wouldn't want to be expected to marry Mr. Collins. His awkward ways and presumptions would be the worst connection. For Charlotte I hope she could mellow him a bit over time. Maybe with the steady influence of Charlotte he would relax and not bumble about verbally or with his interactions as much. No one is perfect but maybe Charlotte is the best choice for him as he is for her. If Lizzie married him it would have ended in tears. Nice topic to share.

I definitely agree, but I think the reason why at least some people bash her, as you say, is because we tend to apply our standards and context onto her. When studying The Divine Comedy in school I remember being told that Virgilio as depicted by Dante is essentially Dante's worldview applied to this guy he admires and his morals are in line with what Dante would approve of. Nowadays, if a woman doesn't want to or doesn't manage to get in a stable relationship, they can still have a career and a life without fearing destitution or being a burden on their family. In her days, Charlotte would have encountered all sorts of hardships and even impeded her sisters' entrance in society, as you said. Personally, I quite admire her: I have found that in my life I have all too often done or pursued things because I thought I ought to, and realised later that my unhappiness was due to me not being honest with myself, not whether I achieved my perceived goals. As you rightly point out, she outlines her views on romance earlier in the book and she really anything like Elizabeth: whereas her friend would have probably had a nervous breakdown had she married Collins, I can definitely see Charlotte happy in her life. It's also the case that Elizabeth starts seeing how she's very dogmatic and changes her view on other things (Wickam, Darcy, even her sister Jane) - in a way Charlotte's marriage is a catalyst to fracture Elizabeth's prejudice.

I completely agree. Miss Lucas had to be pragmatic. She had one chance and she grabbed it. This marriage gave her respectability and her own status. As woman (and children) of that time were considered the property of men, she did very well by finding an amiable husband who would treat her & the children well. She also gained her own household to run herself, rather than being an unwanted burden to her siblings. She was very wise to marry Mr. Collins. And he gained a skilled household manager and a partner in his parish. A good match all around.

The main gaffe in the Collins/Lizzie disaster was Lizzie’s clueless mother misunderstanding Lizzie so grossly that she thought she could impose her will on her child unilaterally. But Lizzie has a backbone and values that someone like Mrs Bennet cannot understand, so Mrs Bennet made her mistake. If Mrs Bennet were a cleverer, better judge of character, she PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SUCCEEDED in throwing Mary or Catherine in Mr Collins’s direction, and carried her point in convincing her child to marry for the good of the sisters. Mr Collins’s attempt to serve the Bennets through marriage IS an admirable act, despite his constant social blunders which I can now have compassion for through the lens of autism spectrum traits. As well, Mrs Bennet’s singleminded rhino-ing towards marrying off one - ANY- of her daughters to ANY eligible man also invites compassion, in spite of its foolishness verging on cruelty. That’s what’s makes Austen so good! The perfect storm of social awkwardness… setting the stage for Charlotte to jockey herself into position for a desirable and permanent “promotion” in situation, at the low low price of buffoonish social ineptitude!

I definitely have mixed feelings about Charlotte. When I first read P&P in high school, I felt bad for her and I encouraged her initiative in seeking out a spouse. On the other hand, I can see where Lizzy was coming from in being astounded that anyone with good sense would want bumbling and vain Mr. Collins. I've read two different takes on P&P so far during Jane Austen July and they both made me see Charlotte in a different light, both good and bad. I don't think she's a character just to pity. She has admirable qualities (self-knowledge and common sense being high on the list). I just finished The Other Bennet Sister and right now I'm reading Unmarriageable by Soniah Kamal. I think Charlotte isn't all one thing or another. She has compelling reasons for her actions and given the time period in which she was living, I can't really argue with them.

Charlotte Lucas knew how to manage Mr Collins. All Charlotte desired was a comfotable home. She wasn't like Lizzy who wanted a lover and companion.

People think it's a bad match? Wow clearly they've never been in a life and death financial situation. I can definitely relate to Charlotte. I'm severely disabled and chose a partner who I not only get along with as a friend and lover but would also accept my disabilities too. I'm autistic, have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue as well as trauma I'm working through. While I would love to be as independent as possible, I'm a realist and I think Charlotte is as well.

I heartly agree. Charlotte has the self awareness to make a marriage to someone like Mr. Collins a happy one. She knows what to expect of him and how to influence him. As you point out, a marriage for love wasn't as common in the past. People were looking for a companion and security.

I agree with alot of what you said. One thing I think that people miss is Charlotte has an appreciation of Mr Collins if for nothing else he is her knight comming to the rescue. Her options limited and few. He was willing to marry and provide for her wich is a noble trait. And as I think you said she will be loyal and supportive also very desirable traits. I think he got a good deal too. He could have gotten someone who was distant and none caring. She will be a asset to him ,appreciative and in her way caring.

Loved you interesting expliquè. I have always thought Charlotte made a great decision to marry Mr. Collins. It really opened her world and presented so many new opportunities.

Excellent video and analysis, and totally agree. For me, one of my criteria for judging a P&P adaptation is whether it portrays the marriage between Charlotte and Mr. Collins as a good thing for her...for both of them, really.

I have always identified and sympathized with Charlotte Lucas and Mary Bennet, more than Lizzie. Next to economic and social status and connections, beauty was the only other attraction a woman was believed to have. With the misfortune of only having gentility, their futures would be thought bleak. Both Mary and Charlotte recognized Mr. Collin's value as a potential husband. Mary, as much as she tried to be considered accomplished, in book knowkedge and music, was unfortunately socially awkward. She wanted to be considered talented and wise, but succeeded in only sounding preachy and pedantic. Charlotte had the advantage of better conversational skills, practical intelligence and a more enjoyable personality. I heard a theory somewhere, sympathetic to Mary, that after her sisters were gone from Longborn and she was no longer being constantly compared to them in beauty, that she would eventually manage to marry the piano master.

People need to realize that love =/= a successful marriage and vice versa. Even today, just because you love someone does not mean they're the right person for you to tie yourself to for the rest of your life. Charlotte made the right choice

I have a personal story for the readers critical of Charlotte's choice. After my father's death, my mother got even more involved with her church and one day she surprised me by making negative comments about feminists. She knew I was a strong feminist but I had never experienced her as anti-feminist. I swiftly responded with the observation that if not for feminists, when Dad died, everything he owned would have gone to his brother and Mom would have had to live on the brother's charity. Mom was obviously startled by the thought and never said another word about the subject. I think many women today are ignorant of how hard feminists have worked for today's women to have some basic rights and life options, I am extremely grateful to feminists for past and future work.

You are dead right. As readers, it's important that we see the world of the book through LIZZY's eyes, and we know she's a biased observer of her world. It's part of what gives the book its charm and its authenticity. Lizzy has a sharp, snarky character. Of course she wouldn't see the value in Mr. Collins. She says flat out that she has no respect for him. That doesn't make Mr. Collins a bad catch or invaluable. Austen simply sticks to Lizzy's POV in wonderful fullness.

Rereading the book. I noticed that, in contrast to her reaction to Charlotte's engagement to Mr. Collins, Lizzie was fine with Wickham pursuing Mary King (who was rich). "The sudden acquisition of ten thousand pounds was the most remarkable charm of the young lady to whom he (Wickham) was now rendering himself agreeable; but Elizabeth, did not quarrel with him for his wish of independence." Rather odd. I do wonder if her pride was stung that Charlotte snapped up the heir to her father's estate.

She did well for herself and her family. It's one less mouth to feed and one more person to help to feed the other sisters and brothers.

on the point of autism, I watched a video where that may have also applied to Mr. Darcy. that may explain his behaviour at the Meryton ball in the beginning, the way he acted, and (possibly) his transformation from 'proud and disagreeable' to well-mannered to say the least. I'm autistic too so this point on both men hits home.

Excellent discussion! You really added points and thoughts that I didn’t recognized when reading the book. Very enriching!

I've always loved Charlotte! She took control of her own future in the only way she was allowed to in those times.

I agree. I've always thought she made the best choice for herself in her time. Women then had little legal presence, they couldn't own property nor pursue legal matters without a man ( persuasion, Mrs. Smith and her husband's estate issues that she couldn't get Mr. Elliot to handle and after Anne's marriage, Wentworth was able to help her recover her funds. ) without a man back then, you were screwed and at the mercy of whatever man 'held' your legal custody. She makes a point of saying to Lizzie that Collins is not vicious. She will not be at the mercy of a man who will mistreat her, better than many others can say at that time. I'm sure she feels she can put up with embarrassing moments vs painful ones from an abuser. I've also felt that Collins helped cement her into the Gentry class. Her father from trade, Collins held a gentleman's occupation and would inherit an estate via entail. Also very gentry setup. Her, and her children, are now firmly moved into a higher class than her birth. As long as he is kind and treats her well and is amenable to her suggestions, I feel she could easily come to hold great affection for him, if not love way down the line. She is very practical, she knows very well it is up to her to control her own reactions and thoughts and her marriage will be what SHE makes of it. She is not counting on love to smooth the way, she will smooth her own way. Collins lacks her deal breakers; viciousness, drunkenness, poverty or gambling problems. She is cunning enough to work with everything else and pick her battles in their daily life. I've always seen her choosing him as a sign of strength, not weakness. She is saying, Yes- I can work with this. After all, I think she could have found a spouse in the other classes in the area, but that would have caused issues for her siblings. As the eldest in this 'gentry' generation, she MUST be seen to marry within her new class or it would negatively impact their chances. She had very likely already put her own happiness aside for her family as I can't see the men in the trades, artisan, freehold farmers or even tenants not recognizing her worth. For a man in those classes where the wife's role can be large and a partnership in the business etc, Charlotte intelligence, capabilities and temperament would have been a large draw, and her father had started as a tradesman so they wouldn't have felt her all that high if no gentleman snapped her up.

Charlotte Lucas was already nearing that dangerous age of 28. She had a younger sister who could marry better if Charlotte led the way. And she had her parents and other siblings to consider. She observed William Collins as a suitor for her best friend Lizzy Bennet. Upon finding that the offer of marriage had been made and rejected, she did the hard calculus. Charlotte could remain as an aging spinster in her parents' home, and eventually as a poor relative living with a sibling. Or she could become the wife of an upwardly mobile young clergyman under the patronage of Lady Catherine de Bourgh. And upon Mr. Bennet's death she would be Mrs. Collins, the mistress of Longbourn. She would raise her family near her parents' home at Lucas Lodge, and she would be in a position to take up her former life in Meryton, now as a leading member of the community. Charlotte would probably face the same problem with the entail on Longbourn that troubled Mrs. Bennet. As long as she provided one male heir to inherit upon Mr. Collins' death, her place would be secure. Mr. Collins, in turn, married the daughter of a knight, a practical and supportive soul who made his home life more convivial than a Miss Elizabeth ever could.

Whenever I think about Charlotte et Mr Collins, I think "She'll be the making of him". She knows such marriage will take work. She understands the flaws in her intended, but she doesn't back down, because she doesn't need a perfect man, she needs a man who can make it work.

I don't bash Charlotte; I bash the society that forced her into that choice.

I believe David Bamber's portrayal of Mr. Collins-P & P 1995-as a cloddish individual swayed many people's opinion, but you make many excellent points as to why Charlotte Lucas actually made a very reasonable choice.

This was interesting. Thanks. This goes towards answering my question about why Mr. Collins didn't marry Mary Bennett--a religious, pious young person. He was looking for young and attractive. Since she wasn't attractive, she would not have caught his eye but the difference with Charlotte is she tried to win him where Mary obviously never attempts. Mr. Collins and Mary Bennett ignore each other. I'm surprised Mrs. Bennett was not on this one as soon as possible. If Lizzie won't do then pious Mary should, except I think Mary seems immature and Mrs. Bennett wasn't maybe ready to throw the younger daughters out for men (the runaway was not a planned one from the mom).

I love this synopsis and couldn't agree more. I don't see Charlotte as "cunning" the way some seem to. I think she was rational and completely logical and reasonable about her situation as well as Mr. Collins and I think she made the perfect and only reasonable choice. Thank you. Great job!

I actually like that Austen shows two types of marriage in P&P. I mean, its 2021, few people need to marry for an income, but showing that there is more to a marriage than just romance is still a good take-away from Charlotte and Mr. Collins.

I now want to read some cute fanfics of Charlotte Lucas and Mr. Collins falling in love after marriage and starting a family and living their lives.

Yes! I can't start how Charlotte is regularly portrayed as this sad, scared little girl when she was obviously smart and savvy.

Peole keep forgetting that Mr Collins is only about 25. I don't know why He is always portrayed by much older men in the films. Austen obviously was poking fun at the young, immature man. But I don't think she meant him to be as contemptible as He is when He is played by a man in his 40's. He was not given any advantage of society or money growing up, and is socially awkward because of it. He will grow. Charlottesville help settle him as he matures. They will do well together.

Wow I never realised people bashed Charlotte. I have always thought her thinking was obvious and reasonable.... But thanks for laying it out so well.

I always feel bad for Mr. Collins. He wasn't the most clever of men or picked up on social ques, but he is a good man. Just not the right match for Lizzy Bennet.

I agree. It is a good discussion on how people have different goals, and what works for one person doesn’t necessarily benefit another.

I've always seen myself more as a Lizzy (Well honestly, more likely a Mr Darcy) than a Charlotte, but I always understood why she married Mr. Collins. Your defense of it was spot on and frankly I forgot how old she was when she got married! Well and we've also been shown in the book by this point, that a husband who does not meddle in the house affairs and lets a wife alone can be an incredibly satisfying match.

He was obsessed over something else. She wanted to be safe on paper and left alone.

The union between Charlotte and Mr. Collins represents real life, while that between Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy is the ideal everyone dreams of getting. However, only a few are lucky enough to get that particular ideal. Given how Pride and Prejudice could be viewed as a journey of growth, self-discovery, enlightenment, and self-improvement for Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy, I also say that Charlotte's becoming Mrs. Collins was meant to serve as a necessary lesson to Elizabeth - she CANNOT judge all who surrounded her by her own standards, by her own beliefs of right and wrong, and that a marriage solely for financial security could still be a fair and even enjoyable compromise, especially given how excellently Charlotte managed her husband and their house, taking all care to maximise all the pleasures and advantages she could derive from her marriage, as well as minimise the pains and disadvantages that were the downside. Yes. THAT had been something Elizabeth needed to learn to truly mature out of her initial prejudices, and while she did not regret refusing Mr. Collins, even she cannot deny that his house was an extremely comfortable residence, that his gardens were charming, and that Charlotte was as happy as can be.

I agree with you in every detail of your analysis. I always appreciated Mr.Collins much more than the general opinion about him especially because of his generosity towards the Bennett family. He wants to marry one of the girls because he feels morally obligated to help them out to beat the

Totally agree. She did what she had to do.

great to find such a thoughtful analysis on this topic, i absolutely agree i think about people's reaction to this character and her choices here now that we have the little women adaptation of 2019 which included the monologue from amy about marriage as an economic matter for a woman and how she was justified in consciously seeking a rich husband, which i think people generally responded positively to. "we can't all afford to be romantic" is a great line from charlotte (i haven't read p&p recently enough to remember if that's a film exclusive or not haha) that i think does much the same thing, although maybe amy's arc is still more palatable because you can sort of have it both ways, since romance "wins" when she turns down the economically prudent proposal and marries for love, with money being sort of a bonus. i also think it's very relevant that, although mr. collins is seeking a wife according to the standards of beauty and youthfulness rather than money, he's also considering this as an economic matter as it's his employer pushing him to marry, and this isn't exactly a romantic endeavor for him, either. i've also always considered this plausibly interpretable as a lavender marriage between them, although of course that's not the only reason people might not want to marry or otherwise have difficulties in the realm. i also really appreciate that charlotte can see the good in a marriage to mr. collins while lizzie considers the idea intolerable (since she's seeing the issue just from her own perspective). i'm autistic, and although i'm wary of people putting forth ideas about characters definitely being autistic based on "difficulties with social interactions" alone (more on that in one second lol) or generally insisting any specific character Should be interpreted as autistic, i think people ought to be aware that, since autistic people have always existed, when people are creating media involving characters based on people you encounter in real life, they can write in an autistic character unknowingly by basing that character on actual people they wouldn't know were autistic. and i think a lot of times you'll see that sort of "oh, we all know someone like THAT" type of character who is othered, where the eyerolling mockery, disdain, or rejection/exclusion of "normal" people is what the reader/viewer is meant to relate to and be justified by how intolerable the other character is, whether or not they actually "deserve" this type of treatment. (couple of examples off the top of my head: dwight from the us office, kirk from gilmore girls, who may be accepted as part of a community but are generally the butt of a joke & tolerated at best by the more "relatable" characters) although mr. collins isn't a particularly welcome addition to the bennet household, he's not there maliciously or even necessarily by his own choice, since his patroness is pushing him to marry. he is respectful and courteous even if the impact of his manners comes off as "rude" or otherwise unpleasant, and does nothing cruel. on the other hand, although it's understandable that lizzie be unhappy with this intrusion, i find it meanspirited and completely unnecessary to try to "get away with" mocking him, which you point out is something charlotte never does, being as civil and respectful to him as he is to other people, even if people find it grating that his social graces do not successfully land. again, being autistic myself, i've often experienced people trying to "covertly" insult or make fun of me within the bounds of supposedly acceptable behavior because they think it'll go over my head, and when your only recourse is to supposedly "escalate" the situation by pointing out the rudeness which is disguised as innocent intent by others, you let it slide, and the person who's making fun of you interprets their efforts as having succeeded and might even ramp it up because, well, if you were too clueless to pick up on that previous rudeness, they may as well entertain themself by incrementally dialing it up and seeing how much they can get away with. it's remarkably hurtful being excluded and treated with contempt because someone simply thinks they can, and even if it seems like the target of such treatment didn't notice, that's no guarantee that's the case. whether or not someone who seems "awkward" really is neurodivergent or not, it's unnecessary and mean to react to decide that someone's social graces (or perceived lack thereof) can tell you that they're clueless and less clever than you, and that instead of interacting with that person earnestly and in good faith, with respect, and with any effort to ever be on their terms (as ND people are always having to try to interact with NT people on their terms and being punished over "failing" to do so) you should jump at the chance to bond with other "normal" people by essentially bullying this person. i understand the context in p&p and don't consider lizzie a villain for being unwelcoming to this person intruding on their lives and who is socially incompatible to her, but i think the general idea in how she treats mr. collins is one you see crop up often in media and life, and again, i can speak from repeated personal experience how hurtful it is to be on the receiving end of that approach. i appreciate that charlotte recognizes there's no need to treat him this way, even if her respect is for a potential suitor: even if her marriage to him is not particularly romantic at the onset, it's not as though marrying for romance is a universal idea, and even if you do think that should be the first and foremost consideration, i think many people recognize / are aware of the general principle that any sort of healthy, lasting relationship requires conscious effort from the participants to nurture it. charlotte has married a decent person even if he's not a romantic hero, achieved many benefits and advantages and possibilities which can surely temper some of the (potential) downsides for her as she certainly seems happier for her decision to marry mr. collins, and of course the relationship would never do anything but degrade if anyone stopped regarding the other person with some fundamental respect. charlotte is consciously navigating all her social situations, and her seemingly having to "compromise" is nothing to condemn: she didn't choose to be affected by socioeconomic realities any more than lizzie or anyone else has.

Agreed. He would have driven Lizzie crazy, and Lady Catherine would have hated her. It was a good match economically for her, but they were temperamentally incompatible.