They might as well have headed in the opposite direction, for the galactic edge 🤣

Depending on how long they were in the turbolift, it's pretty clear that spacetime works different there.

Um would've been a lot less season wise had they not up the show with Seven, her mother-daughter dynamic with Janeway and the Borg.

drunkrumjack, it was not Seven’s dynamic that had us watching.

@@mingnrich Not for guys anyway I always regarded the Voyager series as lady trek with its plethora of female cast and its strangely bidet shaped starship. Not to say Voyager was not good as a result I just found the focus on Janeway and Seven mommy/daughter type episodes one too many but then again who was dating Braga at the time. Others felt the ship and crew should have ended up more like the end of the movie Passengers than a cookie cutter ship that had more power use than they should have had. But I was DS9 biased anyway.

Or when they returned they realised that it was lined with deadly mines

Or they get close only to get destroyed by the Dominion.

Or Voyager was the one that took down the minefield lol. Dammit Janeway!!

STUPID QUESTION. Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant which was about 60-70 years away from the Gamma Quadrant/s stable wormhole. So basically no time would have been saved .

He wasn't bluffing. He tried but was sabotaged.

By the time they reached to wormhole their would be a friendly Domion with Odo in the great link, only 3 ish years after they left

I agree, the possibility that it might be closed or not existent after 60 years, It's too great.

@@scpguy1381 the voyager crew weren't to know. Not sure how 'friendly' the Dominan were after the war either. They could have became more isolationist and xenophobic after the war

@@ThatanOmega but when Voyager left they had destroyed the USS Odyssey

​@@scpguy1381the federation hadn't even encountered the dominion directly when Voyager got stranded. It would have been 5 years into their journey by the time the peace treaties were signed. If they'd made it to dominion space at any point within that span not only would they not have been able to reasonably get around them (especially with Janeways consistent desire to plow straight through any obstacle in the midst direct path possible), they'd have been lucky if they didn't end up outright destroyed in their first encounter with the jem'hadar or thrown into internment camps for years of constant interrogation, torture, and summary executions. And how friendly they'd be after the peace treaties were signed if they just stumbled upon a Starfleet ship crossing their borders from the other side of the gamma quadrant is pretty up in the air. They'd just lost a war. Do vorta hold grudges? Do founders hold grudges and are they willing to just not tell Odo when they're overseeing things off on the fringes away from the great link? Hell a lot of jem'hadar almost definitely hold grudges so they might find themselves destroyed before it even gets as far as a founder making a decision.

@Welsh Lad sounds like a catch 22

Nah, they would just head to Earth almost immediately after.

At the time I wondered if that would be how the Dominion War would end - Voyager arriving with loads of new tech that tipped the balance

@@GrahamPointer1972 that would actually be pretty cool

Imagine if the timing was really bad. Gul Dukat: Welcome, Voyager... to Terok Nor! Captain Janeway: 😱

Also it was already well known that the wormhole was under strict alien control (the prophets) so this increased the risk that it may not be a passageway available to the ship by the time they would get there.

So if your option are go through a mine field where you don't know where the mines are or go around but the bridge could potentially be washed out but you know there is a bridge right now... which option will you take... the route you know will get you to your destination but will almost certainly get you killed? or the route that might not get you home as fast if the bridge is washed out... but you would still get home it would just take longer but you don't know of any mine fields that is almost certainly going to kill you? Personally I'll take the route that isn't going to get me killed by a known hostile force over going the way that will get me killed.

@@Kaziklu This is a bad analogy, here's how to fix it. There's also "mine field" albeit slightly smaller on the way to the "bridge". It's funny how you just made the other path completely safe. Also making a bridge analogy makes it seem like everything is in easy walking distance where you can just double back, you can't. Because if you get to "the bridge" and it's out you die of old age/starvation by the time you try to take another path. If you actually looked into people who've talked about this before the distance to the wormhole, and the path that they took were almost the same. 40-60 years to the wormhole 70 years as a straight shot.

@@Hotobu What minefield? That is just it when Janeway arrived in the Delta Quadrant the Dominion threat was totally unknown. They had known of no threat at all. So one way was known to be suicidal. The other way had no known threats but the wormhole might not be stable.. but is not showing any signs of instability when you left. So you have two options. One that has no known threats... and one that has a threat that if not for plot armor is suicidal. For Janeway to go through the Delta Quadrant makes her a monumental idiot. So lets use a different example. There are two ways home. One way takes you directly through the yard of a Serial Killer Preper Cannibal that will literally hunt you down and kill and eat you the second you step on his property. If you get past that you have to also go through the a town that has a history of locking people up for no good reason. The other way requires you to go down a road that may have a few towns that you know nothing about. Both will take you the same time... but there is a bridge going the way without the serial killer... that IF it is out means you could be stuck a lot longer than if you were to go the other way if there were no serial killer that would for sure kill and eat you. Which way do you go? The way that will result in you being killed and eaten or the way that you are much less likely to get killed and eaten?

I legit have no idea why this didnt come up in the video, usually hes more thorough...

That was the first ting i checked on the Star Charts as well. There was really no appreciable saving in time. So when it came to flipping a coin, Voyager ended up going up against the Krenim, the Kazon, the Hirogen,, The Vaaduar, the Borg , the Vidians and Species 8472. Had they gone through the Gamma Quadrant, who knows who they would have run into BEFORE running smack into Dominion space. They did not KNOW of the dominion, and the space between was a complete blank, they had NO reference to who or what might be there, BUT Voyager had picked up Neelix who claimed to have extensive knowledge of the delta Quadrant and it's races, so they at least had SOME idea what they would face. It was the choice between the path lit by a single candle, and the path through complete darkness.

@@theendofthestart8179 Simpliest answer is they assumed the federation would find a wayto expand out towards the Delta quadrant over a 75 year span.

I think it also made more sense to head directly home. There’s no guarantee the Bajoran wormhole would’ve been there in 50 years.

@@Oleoay Also true, after all it "just appeared, it could as easily "just vanish"

yeah I think the difference is about 5,000 light years. it was literally a difference between 65,000 and 70,000 light years.

Add to that the major gamble of not knowing what the status of the wormhole would be when they get there. Even if they didn't know about the dominion, it had only been a year or two since finding it and was the only known stable worrmhole in existence. That means it's "stability" is based entirely on the premise that it hasn't gone away YET. The 70,000 light year option, with hopes of finding some shortcuts along the way, is the much more sensible option.

Add to that of course the real reason, the show runners wanted to keep the two shows as separate as possible. Its also why the Borg didn't involve themselves in the Dominion War. The Dominion was for DS9, the Borg were for Voyager.

But the Borg are going to be an insurmountable problem, no? Barely an inconvenience.

"Wormholes are tight!"

@@davegarrett231 artificially constructed one are even *TIGHTER!!*

Literally this.. I wish I had seen this sooner. Voyager just shouldn't have happened.

I agree with this idea -- definitely shorter and wouldn't add that much time to the total journey if they told them to bugger off.

Of course, nothing lives in the center of the galaxy because of how densely packed the stars are, and the problems that entails...

If the Cytherian home world was located on the other side of the core, it might have taken them almost the same time, perhaps even longer, if they had to go around.

YES

The question really is why dint they use the cytherian knowlegde just like barkley did to transport enterprise to the cytherian homeworld. Isnt that info in the federation database since they got that 10 years ealry or more that fact that they dint go home same day is astonishting

Your a proper star trek stan. Me too. But your still looking into this with normal eyes. 7 of 9 was there and the Borg. Her catsuit man...

I had him as a pen pal for a school project for about a year when I was 8 or 9! He even sent me a few recipe's for a class cookbook project. Antimatter Flambe if I recall was the one we used.

@@thomas91169 what he sent the same to u both??

That's what I figured-basically the writers and crew never thought of it before it got locked into stone during production

@@samhilly8518 Not a catsuit. A "dermaplastic garment." ;)

I agree with this, also, in the episode "Message in a bottle" where the Doctor goes to the Promethius, he is told the federation is at war with the Dominion, and he never heard of them. So I would assume, that the rest of the Voyage crew would not have either.

Yeah. Even if they left after the Odyssey had been destroyed it's possible that information was still highly classified and need to know. Since Voyager wasn't going through the wormhole, they weren't considered in need of knowing.

Which time period is first? DS9 or voyager? If voyager is before DS9 then voyager wouldn't know about the wormhole. Was the wormhole open during the Cardassian run DS9 era.

@@v8matey DS9 aired before Voyager. Go watch them to get your answers.

Here, here!

But they didn't actually start there, they started at earth and then went to DS9 on the way to the badlands, Kathryn Janeway visited Tom Paris in New Zealand penal colony on Earth before going on to DS9, Tom Paris was then later shuttled presumably from another ship. We know that the badlands mission was Voyagers maiden voyage and was launched from Earth Station McKinley after being built at the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards at Mars as seen in later episode 'Relativity' and that Kathryn Janeway was present on the ship prior to visiting Tom Paris. 😁

@@RicStorm616 They were there in the first episode, at the start of the series.

@@iamise yes but the series did end with them returning to where they started off which was Earth 😉

@@RicStorm616 You made your opinion clear already, and obv mine differs. In my mind, DS9 and the badlands was where they started together. I don't remember seeing them all together on Earth.

This makes a lot of sense. It was common knowledge in DS9 that the wormhole could blown up relatively easily.

There was no war when voyager left

@@d.w.1567 It's the DOMINION, and that is the only way to alpha in less than 50 years.

Sisko did mine the wormhole

Voyager was already in the Delta Quadrant before the Federation knew about the Dominion. You’ll remember when the Doctor is transmitted through the Hirogen network to the Prometheus that the mark 2 mentions the Dominion War and the Doctor has no clue.

fair point. imagine attempting to save the 20 or so years by going to the wormhole only to find it long since collapsed and DS9 abandoned or relocated. Suddenly you find yourself faced with the continued journey and the knowledge that none of the original crew will survive the journey. it will be the following generation that will return the ship to the federation, assuming they even survive that long, as the ship gradually loses the skilled crew required to keep it together through the issues it faced.

No. It would take longer FOR TWO REASONS. 1: Voyager would have been anxious about using such a passage. - Bajoran Wormhole discovered Stardate 46379.1 (May, 2369) - First Contact with Dominion before Stardate 48212.4 (March 2371) along with abduction of Sisko/Qwark and destruction of USS Odyssey. - Voyager's Mission into Badlands before being Sent to the Delta Quadrant, Stardate 48315.6 (April 2371) So Federation was already well aware of Gamma quadrant was dominated by Dominion. Starfleet didn't know the extent of "Borg controlled space" but did know the Dominion had territorial holding not to mention already destroyed several starships; Janeway would have been made aware of, Traveling thru Dominion space besides being geopolitically enraging would also be Suicidal. Second, Look at a map of the Milky Way Galaxy, there's gaps of empty space between Galactic arms, THOUSANDS of lightyears long with few stars. Much like the Voyager episode "Night" where the ship is in a 2500 lightyear void, with no contact of others or various ports of call/trade and virtually No interstellar medium to replenish their most essential supply; Deuterium. Traveling 1000+ lightyears with NO hope of resupply. The solution would be to travel within perimeter of galactic arms where stars and presumably civilizations exist not all of them warp capable, traveling where you can stop for supply is a much longer voyage and add 10-20 thousand additional light years making it EVEN Longer to go to the wormhole.

Excellent point. I imagine most Starfleet captains accepted the idea of a stable wormhole with a grain of salt, especially at first. Hard to believe Janeway would have had enough faith in its stability to risk nearly doubling the length of their journey for the sake of saving only about 12.5 years.

@@spikedpsycho2383 I thought about the spiral arms and empty space, too, but you said it much better than I could. :)

They can't be threatened, bribed, or even understood by humanoids. Trusting your crew's lives to such an unknown over decades sounds foolish.

Yeah, it was "stable" _then_ but they didn't know it wouldn't be closed artificially or something else. The direct route, when it's a sure bet, is (to me) worth it over a maybe, especially when it's that big of a deal. They could have gotten to the Gamma quadrant only to find the "stable" wormhole wasn't stable, was mined, or was destroyed. You never know.

@@chemputer Worse, it was stable because the aliens who lived there, who Starfleet doesn't understand, trust or even really like keep it stable. At the point Voyager left they had no reason to believe those aliens wouldn't arbitrarily slam the door, let alone do so because of the problems of trying to communicate with a species who literally has no common frame of reference with you.

@Ajay Sharma They had Sisko's reports of wormhole aliens who had at best a loose understanding of the physical universe.

Ajay Sharma Sisko found the wormhole and made contact with the Prophets in 2369 at the start of DS9s first season. Voyager’s first season was 2371, around the time the Defiant came to the station and they got the new Generations commbadges.

They were also quite a ways into the journey at that time. So it may have been from the start, but not by the time they got that.

In-Universe, absolutely. Real-World, they didn't want to end the show that early.

@@kadindarklord Writers missed an opportunity to have a comedic moment for Seven going along the lines of decrying their first season decision to head for the Beta quadrant.

@@adamskyj69 Oooo yeah! "I've plotted a quicker route to Earth using Borg alphanumerics... however, this would have been irrelevant if Captain Janeway had simply plotted a course to the gamma quadrant wormhole in the first place. Or use the superior technological advantages of this vessel to destroy the Kazon and utilize the Caretaker's Array instead of destroying it with Tricobalt torpedoes that we don't use anymore. Were those the only one's we had Captain?"

Assuming, of course, Seven knew bout the womhole.

You will adapt.

Since it was mentioned that they, probably, would still have encountered the Borg, Seven could still have been easily injected into the series. So, no loss of Seven would have occurred.

A definite and unacceptable travesty.

Jason Sharp I don’t think I could have turned down Seven’s proposition to Kim if it was me.

@@2bituser569 Take off your clothes, Resistance is futile.

not to mention the known risk of traversing Dominion space at the time they were catapulted into the Delta Quadrant. And not knowing how far towards the Delta Quadrant the Dominion spread, but it was suggested by many encounters in the Gamma quadrant that the Dominion ruled the ENTIRE quadrant

Also, they may be able to contact starfleet through the help of the Klingons.

Darth Tyranes Yes! That’s an excellent point! Hell, even the Romulans might have helped out in exchange for maps and other info on the Delta Quadrant.

The nature of the Dominion was not known to Voyager at the time it was lost in the Delta Quadrant. A single Borg ship could have destroyed Voyager if it had taken the route through the Gamma Quadrant, without the ship acquiring some protections beforehand (7 of 9's intel, the tech from fluidic space, etc).

@@unremoved You forget at the time all they knew of Borg territory was that they were active SOMEWHERE in the Delta quadrant a few years travel from the Federation borders thanks to Q's warning disguised as douchery. With what they know at the time, Janeway actually decreases the chance of running into the Borg by heading towards the Gamma Quadrant.

thats a very good point and accounts for the little dogleg in their projected path as they pass the centre

Similarly, and the thing that always bothered me when people reference these star charts, is everybody treats these things as if they are flat maps charting land. The galaxy is a massive three-dimensional object that's not just 100,000 light years across, but also about 1000 light years thick. So any journey across its breadth has to also account for its depth, which could tack on thousands of light years depending on the angle.

Get the hell outta here with your pro-Wesley propaganda

@@Torian1o1 Uh, op was insulting Wesley, how was that pro Wesley?

@@Torian1o1 The joke was that she took the longer root just to avoid seeing him.

Janeway would toss Wesley out of a air lock without a suit.

Shut up, Wesley.

Yes, that would be why, either that or the agreement between Janeway and Chakotay was that they would not go near the Mokkey.

In an insane quadrant, he was the only sane choice 😎

Neelix should have been put out of an airlock at earliest opportunity.

@@jamiemarchant Do you mean the Maquis?

@@teabearchurchill5600 Yes sorry, my spelling is not the greatest.

Plus the Dominion were actively looking for Federation ships near the wormhole at that point.

And familiar... I'm an Artist, Musician and Programmer,.. i'm so in my head, I get lost easier than those Ants in 'ANTS' when the Leaf fell on their 'trail'!

Yes...this^

Except in this case BOTH Routes are unfamiliar

@@RequiemPoete No. Once Voyager gets to the Beta Quadrant (half way mark), it's familiar. They'll encounter Romulans and Klingons. Going to the Gamma Quadrant would be almost 100% unfamiliar.

Or you could, you know, call a cab

@petulant Why?

@petulant Dramatic irony. Remember the audience knows what the characters do not. The original mission was to go in as SWAT van, find & tow a specific Maquis hot rod to the impound lot, then observer Tom gets cut loose and it's off on the next mission. Instead...

@Pope Marinus III but their original mission was to capture the Maquis ship that was in the BAdlands. It was the natural set-off point for it.

She has standards. Also she didn't want to cuck Picard.

So captain repeat that one more time for the council.... You slept your way home? In which way to you mean?

Paris: But, the Dominions are there!

Mr. Paris

THANK YOU.

Also even without Hirogen relays, the route they took would have seen the Voyager entering comms range with the federation a lot sooner.

@Mark King BAM! Nailed it!

You're forgetting what made the DS9 wormhole a big deal in the first place. It's stable and consistent, barring active destruction by an outside force. It existed in that location for literally thousands of years without *known* issue. That makes it a pretty safe bet. Moreover, given the Federation's history of turning foes into at least frenemies, the Dominion's in the "devil I know" territory vs all those various people that Voyager pissed off along the way.

@@InfernosReaper But with the state of hostility with the Dominion, being a known quantity, it's entirely possible that Janeway, ever cautious, dismissed the Gamma Quadrant=Bajoran Wormhole option, due to too many unknown variables. The Dominions territorial expanse is unknown, but likely comparable to the Fed. The wormhole while being stable, might not be after 55 years, it may have even been purposefully de-stabilised by either the Fed or Dominion during a conflict. There is still a vast swath of unknown territory between their current position in the Delta Quadrant and Dominion space in the gamma quadrant. Thats alot of room for trouble, with definate problems at the other end, compared to similar uncertainty with the beta quadrant route, with another "sometimes" enemy on the other end, the Romulans, yet an enemy with whom Starfleet is more familiar, in colose proximity to a Federation ally (the Klingons, who were still allies when Voyager departed) and the Federation in possible commuincation distance, if worst came to worst, voyager could go around romulan space. I think both options, when weighed, present similar risk, but the one they chose, does make more sense. If perhaps, only just slightly.

InfernosReaper, problem with that is the lack of knowledge as to the size of the Dominion controlled space, and that basically the only intel they had wa sweat they gathered from the world that Bashir visited, what they got from Quark and the Nagus’ misadventure in the Delta Quadrant (the first mention of the Dominion the series), and the fact that three or four bugships rather unceremoniously killed a Galaxy-class cruiser, which is significantly more combat capable than Voyager is when she left DS9. Even if we assume that they had an easier time of it than they did with the route they chose, there would still be 8-10 years of wear and tear on a vessel that would then have to spend about the same number of years dodging Jem’Hadaar bugships to get to the wormhole. Seems risky to me.

Also think about the route - if you assume there is a non-zero risk of the wormhole not being there when you arrive... You've just spent 55 years travelling in the wrong direction! (the Gamma quadrant end of the wormhole is further from federation space than where they started from) Basically, trying to get to the wormhole leaves you NO contingency options. If it doesn't work out you're worse of than when you started. ANY path into the Gamma quadrant leaves you worse off every day you travel in that direction in terms of changing your mind and trying for an alternate plan. It's a BIG gamble, and puts all your hopes on a single wormhole that somehow defies the known logic of wormholes...

@@InfernosReaper you're forgetting all those episodes where they were worried about the wormhole collapsing from natural phenomena or sabotage attempts. it only truly stabilized when the dominion messed with the federation's attempt to collapse it.

This is the main reason. Uncharted space, with a rotating galaxy, dwindling resources, no backup, no one to trust, and you'll most likely all die right upon arrival so the physiological implications of the mission are overwhelming. That's why it's called K.I.S.S. or Keep It Simple Stupid.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, it saved me from pointing it out.

Plothole! I thought this from the first episode. Besides this, they violated the prime directive by destroying the caretakes.

@@MrBubbleJet Has there ever been an episode where the prime directive has so much as been mentioned that didn't involve violating it? It originally just meant hands off pre-warp societies which is good. Everything added to it later is just utter nonsense at best, evil at worst.

That’s exactly what they did with the Borg right?

Voyager was badly damaged from both the Caretakers array pulling them into the Delta quadrant and the battle with the Kazon. Activating the technology to take them home would have taken several hours to do whilst enemy reinforcements were already on route. There's no way Voyager would have been able to hold the Kazon off long enough. All that would have happened is that the crew would be dead and the Kazon would have both the array and what ever tech they could salvage from Voyagers burning hull.

You know Picard would have negotiated with the Kazon to teach them now to use the array in exchange for using it to go home... Only sabotaging it to blow as soon as they use it to retuen home.

Too obvious. If they were setting a course for the worm hole, you'd see that coming a light year away.

Dominion war ended two years prior

I knew this wouldn't happen, but I thought it would have been nice if Voyager picked up some advanced technology or replaced Voyager with a more advanced ship, loosing their original and renaming the new one as Voyager NCC-74656-B and returning in time to help out at the Battle of Deep Space 9. Deep Space 9 with the Defiant, Voyager and the Enterprise-E at the same time in the same place. Now that would have been a finale. Fanboying here, sorry.

They could have done that by getting their hands on Starlin's files.

Samantha Davidson that would of been epic

Given that all other worm holes are unstable. And beta quadrant while not federation is at least known.

Abra Kadabra's response was pretty much my response too. They projected 70 years to Federation Space, so the time to the wormhole would be 55 or so? The wormhole had only been stable for less than a decade, so they couldn't really count on its still being open when they got there. On the other hand, the direct route to Federation space is more of a sure thing.

Agreed that the best reasoning is that it’s unknown if the wormhole would still be around by the time they got to it. However it’s still a plot hole that it was never mentioned. Chakotay: “what about heading to the Gamma Quadrant wormhole?” Janeway: “it’ll take us 55 years to get there, it’s stable now but it might not be for that long.” Chakotay: “good point.”...and that’s it, plot hole filled.

This seems like the most logical answer A sure thing 75 year trip OR a gamble on a 50 year trip that if you lose, means another 75 years

It seems that the Voyager writers were under instructions to avoid all mention of the Dominion. They are mentioned twice - once when Chakotay calls them "an ally" of Cardassia, once when an EMH mk2 tells the Doctor about them. It should have been the Jem'Hadar on board the Prometheus.

Every time a photon torpedo is fired, an anti-photon torpedo is generated in and unloaded from the adjacent tube. Then they simply reconfigure the power conduits and modulate the carrier wave so it's inverted, and you have a photon torpedo again, ready to quantum-tunnel in an endless series of torpedoes, although some stipulate there only ever has been and always ever will be only one photon torpedo that tunnels through spacetime.

My head canon is just that photon torpedoes can be manufactured, they just weren't set up to do so at the time they said that line. They can replicate all the parts, so it's really just getting the antimatter that's a challenge. A problem which they had to solve repeatedly.

Agreed, no sane Captain nor Janeway would take that unnecessary gamble which would reduce the trip by about 20% if it worked and increase the trip by about 100% if it didn't.

Yup, when in doubt choose the most direct route home

Agreed. Don’t rely on something to shave a marginal amount of time off your trip, when failure means doubling trip time...

If i was janeway i would have fought to keep the caretaker array and had a bomb get made so that immediately after sending them home it would explode...

I think that facet of it would be a judgement call. Janeway was an accomplished scientist on top of being a ship's captain and would have had access to the most current information about the wormhole as a potential concern or path of flight for the Marquis she was in pursuit of. The wormhole hadn't suddenly appeared but was know already to have been there all along. It was known to be stable and a very long term stellar fixture. I think the overriding concern would have been the Dominion. They had shredded well defended colonies and a heavily armed convoy already with relative ease. As far as anyone in Starfleet knew at the time Voyager left the Alpha Quadrant the Dominion had complete control over the entire Gamma Quadrant and would obliterate any Starfleet vessel it found. Janeway would have known that Voyager would have been laughably outmatched against the Dominion and be facing them with a crew of elderly officers past their prime and whatever younger officers had been born to the crew and half trained as best as possible during their journey. Add in that she knew they would have been traveling through essentially the entire Gamma Quadrant to reach a wormhole she knew was heavily guarded by cloaked ships...

JarOfRats that’s actually a really good theory. Long distant road trip, do you go the little bit longer way to ensure you’re not running out of gas on a dirt road in the sticks, or do you go the “short cut” route.

What, how much, and when they need raw materials is less consistent than WTH a warp factor means. Even so, fictional nebulae, M class worlds, etc. are what they care about. And those could be more or less common in an area irrespective of the raw number of stars of all types.

@@patrickmccurry1563 Stars are gravitational attractors, so a higher concentration of stars does kind of imply a higher concentration of everything else, including civilisations, planets of every flavor, and nebulae.

Stars only generate the carbon necessary for life when they reach a particular age. Clustered stars are newer stars & so less likely to be carbon-producers. Counter-intuitively, life is actually more plausible in emptier areas of space.

They need supplies like all the time. They're always trying to set up trade, or mine for raw materials, or looking to harness some new technology. They even visit galactic scrapyards and scavenge battlefields. It's usually these kinds of missions going on that initiate the episode's shenanigans.

Invasion! cycle #4. The Voyager can have either Warp 9.999 or an irregular shield geometry. Irregular geometry selected. Voyager peaks at 9.666. Hostiles peak at 9.6663. Still a long chase.

Like a car you try to max out the speed, you use more power and fuel, so even if you out ran them you may just run out of puff sooner

@@christopherwilson7092 That, and Subspace Radio & Sensors use signals that travel at 90,000c in a similar manner to how lightspeed is Mach 90,000.

It's an Intrepid class ship, not a Galaxy class ship. White it was suitable to send Voyager on a mission to capture the Maquis (who used outmoded flyers/shuttles), I don't think Starfleet would have assigned Voyager to combat missions in the AQ. In the DQ, Voyager struggled to hold their own during combat due to low energy reserves and a lack of photon torpedos.

It’s probably also because they mention several times that they can’t go at maximum warp because of damage and lack of fuel

Yes, any instability in the wormhole that makes it collapse means for Sisko that he gets a new job. For Janeway it could mean the long way around and part or all of her crew dies. But it'd be nicer if there was more of a concrete reason rather than just probability risks, because concrete reasons are more fun.

This is exactly what my 16 year old self deduced when watching both DS9 and VOY while it was current. Literally every other wormhome EVER in Star Trek is not stable. The Bajoran wormhole was barely discovered 2 years before... I know, most ppl assume it was always there, but it wasn't open... it wasn't until Sisko arrived and discovered that it appeared and connected both quadrants. Also, plenty of wormholes have different exits points. This is stablished in various Star Trek series.

The issue with your comment is that the Federation knew for Sure that the Bajoran Wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant was stable and not going anywhere. This is due to Sisko having met the Entities inside that created the Wormhole....

@@Ami-vh7sr As far as I know its possible to collaps a Wormhole artificially as they did in DS9 so that would be a risk as well... Also when the Voyager started the Prophets where still a mystery so they couldn´t be sure that they keep the Wormhole open forever

@@man100111 Possibly, but by the time Voyager left and got pulled into the Delta Quadrant the Federation had been sending ships through the Wormhole for 2 years..... Would the Federation had let ships go through on Year to Multiple year assignments through the Wormhole had they not known it was stable?

Jordan Kopal It’s also under the control of aliens with motivations that can not be understood by linear beings, and it was collapsed after Dukat and the Pah-wraiths attacked the Orb of Contemplation. If Sisko hadn’t been able to reopen it, the wormhole would have been a single point of failure in the plan, leaving Voyager as far from home as they started.

@@leonanderson2473 You are sadly functioning upon the idea that the 'Prophets' would cut their 'Emissary' off..... You are also functioning under the Idea that beings who live outside of Time, viewing the past, present, and future all at the same time didn't already know the outcome of the 'Pah Wraith' issue.....

Yeah i miss when playing halo youd suddenly get sniped by the (cant remember the name) fo going out of bounds in one of the creator maps. Sometimes theyd just kill you just to mess with you randomly. Plenty of times id be running the map and just die along with my streak. No reason.

@@nunyabisnass1141 killed by the guardians

@@Nighthawk1066_ yes, the guardians, lol. Miss those guys. I also miss teleporting across the map at light speed into a wall. My fav glitch was being in a wraith getting ready to plow through a a crowd on 8v8, and i get teleported into the sky. I come down and land on them, but their goes my invincible. The glitches were the best part of that game.

there was an episode where three ferengi ended up in the Delta Q, they were last seen in the Price a STNG episode. they had been using the population of a planet, can't remember why, but there was a wormhole involved which brought the ferengi back to the Alpha Q. I always imagine they showed up just as a dominion ship saw them and sent them to the afterlife.

That means in another branching AU Voyager is either captured or destroyed.

@@mainstreetsaint36 And in another Voyager stayed and founded their own federation.

Not to mention the intrepid class is almost as close to being a warship as the defiant and bleeding edge tech at the beginning of the show. Definitely a ship that would be really bad to fall into a potential enemy's hand right before a war.

It was the perfect size ship for their journey. Galaxy class would have most of the usable decks for supplies and defiant and nova class would be to small.

I don't think it was that clear at all. "Message in a Bottle" takes place in stardate 51462.0 and the Doctor doesn't even appear to know what the Dominion is. It seems unlikely Voyager would be aware of the extent of the Dominion or the level of threat it posed.

@@populuxe1 The Doctor isn't a reliable source or proof, that they embarked prior to the Dominion. Before the first Voyager's mission, the EMH was basically just a program, that got a "reset" after each use. In the sense of information about the surrounding world, it didn't have the need for updates other than medical progress. Surely not political situation. After he became the main doctor of Voyager, he spent more and more time in developing himself, but that happened after Voyager took their route towards the Beta (and eventually Alpha) Quadrant, not prior. The "Message in a bottle" is another thing, I give you that. But I don't remember that episode, so can't give you counter arguments for that (if there are some, that is).

right...i normally like this guys vids...but this is way stupid.

Well, but in light years, the nearest friendly space station they can encounter is 60000 lys and a Worm hole away. On the other side they have to travel through THREE territories of other species, of which one is hostile and one is a nightmare.

@@sreser111 still an interesting question even if this is the answer

And the borg dominating the delta quadrant are so much mroe friendly for sure... It was a choise of shorter route and dealing with asshole dominion or longer route and dealing the storm that is the borg. Neither are ideal but gambling the dominion won't try to assimilate you into the collective seems the safer way to go. It's not like they didn't know they would have to cross through the very heart of borg territory and at the time Voyager got stranded there was no war with the Dominion. Sure, the UFP and Dominion didn't exactly get along very well but that still makes it a less deadly route then confronting the borg and possibly in the process inviting them to invade again. ("Do not provoke the borg" - Q)

@@roepi The Borg were already planning an invasion of Earth specifically. It is why the Borg had a full fleet at the Unimatrix when Voyager got there in Endgame. They were planning to assimilate Earth in a swoop, since they went to the effort to pop a transwarp portal entrance in Earth's orbit. The Borg only do that for full fleet wide invasions, and the Borg Queen was almost ready to give the invasion order when Voyager showed up. The fact of the reality is, if Voyager goes to the Wormhole, then there is no Earth to go back to, let alone a Federation. Instead of Starfleet fighting a full war against the Dominion starting from the Wormhole, it is a full war against the Borg starting at Earth, with the planet already gone.

Also, I don't agree that the Romulans would have posed a threat. It's more than likely the Romulans would have helped Voyager get provisioned up and return safely to the alpha quadrant. It would serve zero purpose to antagonize the Federation over something like this and more of an opportunity to show good faith in this in exchange for something else.

@@oldtwinsna8347 in one episode the Voyager had contact to the Romulans. Well from the past, but the romulans were not hostile nor friendly. I think they would have to explain theirselfs.

@@christinamaier5610, That could have been a nice call back if the romulans knew they were coming and let them through.

I think that theory is a pretty good one. They knew that it was stable at the moment they left, but they were still exploring it at the time. Scientists were interested why it worked and how it worked. Even what was on the other side was a new world for the Federation. There was absolutely no guarantee that it still would be a stable wormhole some decades later. Like you said...worst case you fly in the wrong direction just to land in front of a closed door...and then explain it to the crew that you now have another 30-40 years in front of you...years that you could have skipped if you had gone the direct route. I would say it's 50 : 50 that they throw you right out of the airlock after your speech.

It's a bit like walking 10 miles home, or walking 9.98 miles to the bus stop and taking the bus from there. In the end you take the same time, but one of these brings you closer to where you want to go with each step.

Good theory.

Imagine if they did go to the wormhole (maybe even found a shortcut to it so they werent great grandparents by the time they got there), the wormhole was active so they could go thru... and then we would've had a glorious scene of Voyager emerging infront of DS9 with a hail "Voyager, welcome back to DS9, you've been gone for too long" ...also I felt like they should've expanded on the Voyager landing on earth scene. It was too quick and final. No words from Janeway, no farewells by the crew...felt empty at the end...

It's not really a good theory, because what made the DS9 was that it was stable and had been so for thousands of years, since it was created and maintained by beings of fairly great power, the likes of which most foes of the era couldn't defeat.

Yes it's actually Neelix's fault. He knew the space in the direction they went.

Same I kinda feel like a dick head now 😂😂

Oh my gosh 😂

For someone who sat and thought about interesting aspects of Star Trek over the years, I'm absolutely stunned that I never considered this.

More likely they had no way of finding or determining the location of the wormholes opening from the delta quadrant side. On the other hand Voyager knows where earth is and how to get there.

That's what I am saying!!! They had to have had the ability to contact them since the cytherians were willing to dialogue.

It's possibly Janeway didn't know about them after all not every SF captain knows everything but even if they have a file that Janeway looks up. It's shown in course oblivion voyager couldn't normally go into the galactic core. The sliver blood copy voyager had to have a massive refit using tech that it would appear that prime voyager never came across. It be like trying to expore the bottem of the deepest part of the ocen in a tinny. They'd be crushed like a tin can

Knowledge of the Cytherians could be classified, because Voyager probably has the logbooks of all other Starfleet ships. Another possibility is the galactic core is too dangerous to navigate.

Presumably, if they had such advance travel the technology, they would already have the information you may have gathered and any historic and cultural information would already have been exchanged during the earlier contact featured in TNG.

I'm not sure Voyager can pass safely through the Barrier, as TOS and TNG established there is a Galactic barrier at the core and one at the rim of the galaxy that does bad things if you pass through them.

My head hurts When did Janeway encounter the Ferengi?

@@matthew8153 The ones that were stranded in the Delta from the Barzan Wormhole- TNG's The Price.

@@matthew8153 Season three episode five. False Profits.

True! Janeway is an expert in sabotaging herself with her moralility.

That's the problem with the whole series: Janeway was Gilligan.

Exactly, the parallels to Odyssey and why it happened cannot be ignored.

The wormhole was also fairly new at that point. It was known to be stable, but would it still be stable in 30 years when they finally reach it? It would be a big bummer to show up in Dominion Space, ask for safe passage to the wormhole, and learn that it collapsed 20 years ago because the Romulans inverted a deflector array or something.

@The Premier thus ending all life

I think they still would have gotten the mobile emitter, the time ship came to them in that episode, not the other way around.

Kind of reminds me of an argument I had with this friend of some friends back in college. I think we'd tried dating prior to this, so that might have factored as well. We were watching Star Trek: First Contact on tv, and she was pondering why they chose to make Data's eye blue. I think she intended to try and sound smart, but she didn't know this was the kind of thinking I did by nature. She didn't like when I said it was because Brent Spiner's eyes are blue so they just left the contact out. Then she didn't like when I said because the dead crewman that the Borg Queen took it from had blue eyes. I think I had a few more answers just off the top of my head, and she just got madder at me and changing the parameters of how she meant the question. I just had all the obvious answers.

That's true, but lame unimaginative thinking and boring. Part of the fun is to get into a story and try to speculate about story elements from inside the story's world and logic.

That would have been dumped and very stupid if they would have went to the gamma quad..... They would have ran into the Dominion...... And then they never would have got home 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

But your wrong the dominion are in the script season 4 Ep:15

@Maintenance Renegade at first I thought this was a plot hole, but I thought about it and I think I have a possible explanation, at least as to why they didn’t use a time delayed explosion to destroy the array. The only weapons in Voyager’s possession powerful enough to destroy the array were tricobalt devices, which (and this requires a bit a of a leap) may need to be fired at the target in order to detonate. Another possible explanation is that Janeway had to be absolutely sure that it was fully destroyed, which she couldn’t be if she wasn’t around to do the destroying.

You could also say it was because Janeway bothered interfering with what was really a small-time exploitation of an insignificant planet by 2 Ferengi shlubs.

and imagine if a wormhole or transwarp conduit had deposited them at the rear end of the romulan Star Empire....who could greet them there but none other than the son (or daughter as the case may be) of Telek R'Mor....who'd made a promise to his/her dying dad to see Voyager safely home should he/she encounter it

Brian Straight its also the reason a crew composed of dozens of different species (and statistically speaking, probably many humans who were from colonies) always talked about getting home to Earth. Because UPN thought the viewers were morons and would get confused by Tuvok wanting to go home to Vulcan.

@@ianshaliczer Of course, that's like a two day hop if you're not in a hurry from Earth. Earth was like a hub airport for them- look, no one wants to go to Atlanta, but that where you're going to get the connecting flight

Plus, worst-case scenario, the trip takes 50-60 years. There was never a stable wormhole in existence before, and even if the Bajoran wormhole was considered "stable," 60 years is a long time to hinge your hopes on a method of travel that is notoriously unreliable. Not to mention that the wormhole came close to being closed before Starfleet even became aware that Voyager was still out there, and had been kept open only by the will of one of the most alien beings Starfleet was aware of. So even if Janeway were to consider using the Gamma Quadrant wormhole, it would probably be too great of a risk to leave to chance, especially if failure meant adding another 40 or so years on Voyager's trip.

Jeremy Owens The Sol System is in the middle of the sector designated as “Sector 001” because it is (more or less) the astrogeographic center of the UFP... Vulcan and Andoria are in the same sector. It’s also right on the boundary between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. So it’s like being lost at sea in the middle of the Pacific and being desperately trying to get home to Des Moines... when half your crew are from Northern Ireland. Yes, sure, if you are 75,000 LY from Earth, it’s basically inconsequential that you’re 74,984 LY from Vulcan when it comes to travel time. The sixteen light years between Sol and 40 Eridani A can be crossed in about a weekend at cruising speeds for ships like the Enterprise-D or Voyager. It’s just weird that _every_ member of the crew talked about Earth as their home. Approximately half of Voyager’s crew were Marquis terrorists/freedom fighters trying to reclaim their colonies on the UFP’s frontier with the Cardassian Union. They shouldn’t feel so fondly about Earth! Then there’s all the aliens. Of the top of my head, there were at least two Vulcans, a couple Betazoids, a Bollian, and whatever the hell Naomi Wildman’s father’s species was named... I think there might have been a Trill as well.

@@ianshaliczer Yeah, I'm generally familiar with Trek stellar cartography... but it's less like Des Moines, and more like London (presuming the destination was the UK). We're talking about the Capital, not a provincial backwater- plus, it is also the HQ of the military organization they are in- not to mention, Sector 001 could easily be Voyager's home port- they DID start there, after all (while recruiting Paris). (Granted, I couldn't find anything supporting or countering this- aside from being constructed at Utopia Planatia) But, if Earth was their home base, er, port, that would make a lot of sense that everyone wanted to get there, (since military families tend to move with the servicemember).

Yes, it should have been addressed, even in a quick Q and A where a crew member asked the question and Janeway said that would be longer. Something, anything of this should have been mentioned.

Honestly, it's such a stupid idea it's not even worth addressing. For one, they don't know where it is and have no way to update their maps. For two, they wouldn't be in comms range of the federation until they literally went through the worm hole. Three, wormholes in the Star Trek universe are extremely unstable. Not a single one has ever been open for that long without collapsing, absurdly high odds it doesn't last that long. Four, even if the wormhole was still open the federation doesn't even have control of it and they might not have been allowed access to it anyways.

Wait Wait Wait...) at that point the station was still close to Bajor and thye wormhole had yet to be discovered. Voyager was lost very shortly after leaving the station as they headed out to capture the Maquis. Originally, the Federation took over the station to offer protection while Bajor was recovering from the occupation. A couple of episodes later the "only known stable wormhole" was discovered. It was even hypothesized that the Cardassians would have never left had they knew the wormhole existed. So, at the time Voyager was lost due to its runnin with the Caretaker, no one, including anyone in Star Fleet, was aware that the wormhole even existed. Homework People! Lets do our homework before we run out and make videos based on inaccuracies. Matter of fact, they could have only learned of the wormhole AFTER the Doctor was sent into Federation Space to deliver a message that those on Voyager were still alive. They could only have learned about the wormhole after Barclay was able to establish communication with Voyager through The Pathfinder Project a number of years into their journey.

@@MaxLaingDMP The wormhole was discovered in the first episode of DS9, which was about two years before the first episode of Voyager. Voyager would certainly have known about the wormhole, but would have had limited info at the time.

@@thebatman8895 over the past hour I have sat here in complete embarrassment and humility while forced to ponder how it is I have made such a vast, and monumental mistake in the timeline. Though the easy path would be to scurry away - I will further expose my embarrassment by revealing the fact that for the past 20 years my wife and I cycle through the seasons of each series (minus TOS) averaging around 2 episodes a night about 5 nights per week. Every now and then, as other shows make their respective appearences (The Orville, The Mandalorian, etc), or the time arises to pepper in something from the Marvel Universe, we give Trek a slight break though always returning faithfully to our "staple". The only thing that offers the slightest momentary respite from this most painful, public blunder, is the fact that we literally just made it to the end of DS9 and started Voyager. Before Voyager's "voyage" begins, we see a couple of her crew at Quark's bar as they are handing the viewers over from the "familiar and proven" to the "new and yet to be established" as the sendoff for the new show. Though the way we watch the episodes offers not a reason nor an excuse, the fact of the matter is (as you have brought to mind) the series are not successive as they run partially parallel with a 2 year offset. So, having just "started" a new series, coupled with the fact of the show (Voyager) "starting" at DS9, and having just finished the entirety of DS9 a few days ago, I can only guess that in my eagerness to praticipate in one of these threads, to my detriment, a number of things became conversationally misaligned. What makes this all the more painful is the fact that my position is that of CEO over Project Development. It is literally my job to keep a vast array of facts straight during the development of the large-scale projects we are called upon to forge into existence. Something I have taken great pride in over the years. Having gotten what I injected into a conversation so wrong as a direct result of the incorrect compilation of data - data that I should have had a rather extreme handle on - has really knocked me back on my ass. So, in closing to this self-induced smackdown, thank you for the correction and my deepest apologies for having to suffer through reading that crack-headed submission I initially put forward. Should I ever decide to brave an expedition into such public waters again, I will surly redouble my efforts prior to offering an opinion in an effort to prove my worthyness of being allowed to play along in the first place. Sincerely and without hesitation, Max Laing

I don’t think 8472 was after humanity till Janeway went in league with the Borg

More importantly the series would've been cancelled early if not for the addition of a ridiculously hot Borg to the cast if not for that storyline

@@tingley428 Seven of Nine 😍😍😍. Jeri Ryan is 50, and still looks hot in her pictures from Picard.

@@patricklyons794 dude I'm 48 & still sexy af... No I'm not sending you pix, just sayin don't age-shame the poor girl hahahahaa Also tho she's a Brazilianare so she can afford to spend the time to look good, have trainers & cooks etc

@@Endeavour255 Species 8472 never seemed to distinguish between species in the Galaxy. Which makes sense as they were the only life form in their universe. They were also very intolerant from what we saw initially.

You're thinking of the Barzan Wormhole. And Voyager DID run into the delta quadrant end of it. Unfortunately its predictability destabilized when they forced the "lost" Ferengi back through it and it was lost to them. Voyager season 3, episode 5 - "False Profits".

Most people only think in two-dimensions.

The milky way galaxy (as best known) is relatively (the x-y plane relative to the z axis) flat away from the the center. So cross quadrant interstellar space travel would be vaguely two dimensional in concept. It is closer spacial aspects that would be more 3-D but are usually presented as flat, case in point the shows nearly always show a group of ships (even opposing vessels in combat) with the same "up" orientation. Like why do they never encounter a Klingon Bird of prey approaching with a 90 deg roll from the enterprise, (nope always flat like they are surface vessels on the water)... I think that would have looked cool. P.S. Babylon 5 did the spacial geometry far better.

@@vrooooom4487 Also, the navigation screen on the NCC 1701 in TOS exactly showed that: it was a "flat" screen, but with a pointer, that could be raised or lowered, to show how much you move on the Z axle.

@@martincoates96 even every station/ array appeared right side up, though I guess it couldve just been shown that way 'on screen'. Itd be cool if they arranged to meet at a rendezvous point just for the other ship to show up upside down 😅

This question raises a really cool, crazy point - according to Memory Alpha, any given warp factor is not a relative speed, but variable based on proximity to mass and other spatial conditions. It tends to be faster in relation to more massive objects (thus the slingshot effect) and much, much slower (approaching c*1) in the void of intergalactic space. So as you move away on the z-axis, you move much slower (and become much less likely to be able to mine any dilithium), so the galaxy is effectively a 2d space. So wild to think about.

Honestly the most sensible assumption is that the Wormhole in the Gamma Quadrant was simply as far from the voyager's starting position as the furthest most reaches of the Federation, or possibly Klingon territory. Or even further.

Nope Janeway and Tuvok didn't know about the Dominion. Voyager was lost before contact with the Dominion was made. And remember when the Doctor was sent to the Prometheus. The EMH on the Prometheus told Voyager's EMH that the Romulans have not entered the war against the Dominion. The Doctor responded with "Who?" Then when crewmembers got mail from home. Commander Chakotay got a letter from a friend that was in the Maquis. The letter told him that Cardassia allied with a power alien empire from the Gamma Quadrant. And this power wiped out the Maquis.

The doctor comes back and says the federation is at war with the dominion. Janeway says "the dominion?" As if she hadnt heard of them

@@Joesolo13 I tend to agree. The assumptions about where the gamma end of the worm hole is must be wrong.

@@rinoz47 What if she did actually know about them, but it was regarded as classified knowledge like Omega?

Would be something interesting to point out somewhere in ep 2-5 while they were still close to where they landed. Like if some onboard prefer that route for whatever reasons and they have a big talk and Janeway questions if she should have a vote on it (since the crew will be there for most of their lives instead of a few weeks like promised) It could get an interesting moral showdown that ends with her staying with Starfleet principles etc.

Yeah, what if they did manage through some plot magic to get through to the Bajoran Wormhole while it was still mined. "Yay! We just made it back to DS-9!" "Captain! Sensors are detecting numerous small objects decloaking and heading towards us" "Ships?" "They're too small! It's like they're . . . " "MINES!" *BOOM*

Also I do believe they had mentioned in at least one DS9 episode that while they knew exactly where one end of it was. The other end moves about, either that turned into a plot hole latter or the Dominion developed a way to track it's movements so they could make more stable use of it when they started their war.

@@joelellis7035 They'd have run into the Dominion fleet before then. Of course, by the time they actually got there, the war would've been over and the mines would've been gone anyway.

@@CrossRoadsOfTime If it did that, then the wormhole would've been utterly useless for the exploration and trade that was its primary use before the Dominion war....

Exactly, and why this video is utterly unnecessary. No one would take that chance to save a few years on a generational trip, when there's a good chance by the time you got there that there'd be nothing there for you.

Plus the Dominion threat made it highly likely that the Federation would try and collapse the wormhole. Starfleet captains would have been aware of this scenario.

Also, it was stable for now and perhaps for much of the Bajoran's recorded history which in cosmological time scale is all of 5 seconds in a human time scale. That is to say that it would not make much sense to assume that a few thousand years of stability was not, in fact, a mere short term anomaly in the timeline of an object that for all anyone knows could have been around for billions of years perhaps even dating back to the early universe who knows?