Definitely Budapest! My husband acted like I was weird for being stuck on that. Thank you for validating my marvel views(me).

I've always considered Jennifer Lawrence's Red Sparrow as the best Black Widow origin story, with all the brutal training, the red in the ledger, with the US/Russian agents being Clint and Alexei. But alas, the BW movie got us a bumbling Alexei as a father figure and Yelena as a wisecracker instead of a Fiona Volpe sexpot who's Natasha's BW rival.

@@Shadi092986 underrated comment

Eh, I don't entirely agree with you on this one. Sometimes you don't need to know the details of a character's origins. Sometimes, broad strokes, and references just work better while allowing the character to maintain a little bit of mystery to them. My example being, we didn't need a Solo movie because we didn't really need to see him make the Kestle run, we didn't need to see his first meeting with Chewy, we didn't need to see him win the Falcon from Lando in a game a cards. All of that was sufficiently laid out for is in the original trilogy, and explicitly showing it doesn't really add any value.

From my fanfiction: "What are you going to do with me now?" Natasha asked, examining Barton's wounds. They were both sitting on the plane that was taking them to America. They both failed to complete the mission. She didn't kill the politician Guera, and Barton didn't kill her. Budapest has changed Natasha. He gave her hope that she could be free. "I'll take you my home," Barton smiled. "You think I'm easily dragged into bed?" Natasha said it jokingly, but her mind was calculating. Most men wanted this from her. Her charms and her sexy body. "My wife is unlikely to be happy with the three of us in bed. It's too small," Barton smiled impudently. "You have a wife and you are flirting with me? Didn't you buy me drinks at the Lajos Bar?" Natasha asked. Slowly bandaging Barton's shot shoulder. "The specifics of working as a spy. Laura understands that," Barton replied. Natasha was involved in a world of corrupt politicians, promiscuous women, secret spies. She knew all kinds of smiles. Barton's smile as he talked about Laura. It was something else. Not artificial. Not condescending. Honest. "She's probably the most special woman in the world," Natasha made a trivial statement. As should be said in this situation. Barton looked at her. Like the watchful gaze of a hawk. "You throw the cheapest text there is, and yet you mean it anyway," Barton replied. "You're Hawkeye. So easy to see through? Maybe I should change my career," Natasha said. "Hawkeye. I like it. It suits the archer. Robin Hood or Legolas would be too cheesy. If you came up with a nickname for me, I should come up with one for you," Barton said. Nickname for her? She was Agent Romanoff, one of the widows of the Red Room. She didn't need a nickname. "What for exemple?" Natasha asked. "Black Widow. Refers to your past. You were just one of the Widows, weren't you?" Barton asked. "Widow number 506," said Natasha. "And now you are just Black Widow. One and only," said Barton. "Why not give me a nickname that doesn't refer to the blood on my hands?" Natasha asked. "Does not apply to blood on your hands. I read your file. You survived the killer program. You are a survivor. When you meet her, Laura will confirm that too. You are Black Widow because you deserve it. Because Black Widow not have to be a sign of the great evil but your surving. It will be a sign of you. Natasha Romanoff, who managed to survive," said Barton, and he meant it. Natasha felt something. Something she hasn't felt in a long time. However, she did not show anything of herself. Her face was still a professional mask. "I'm Black Widow because I kill powerful men that hang around me. Usually on orders or for money, Barton," replied Natasha. "Not Barton. Not for you," Barton said, and grabbed her forearm. "Then who?" Natasha asked. "Clint or Hawkeye. Or whatever you want. Not Barton, though," he told her. Clint. No, Barton.'' It was only memory....fanfiction was about Loki :)

Definitely. They committed hard to social politics and it's going to keep hurting them for some time

@@gregowen2022 When will this madness seriously end?

@@MrATPCO The problem is that most buisnesses can take losses for years. So I assume Disney can ruin themselves for a while.

this is why they killed off tony stark, they were jealous

@@attilamarics3374 Why the hell won't this stop and we end this by force?

Right, it was such a sharp turn. She was an emotional wreck with good reason leading up to the movie, but then she suddenly is a psycho? But it's ok because mind control. Again. Come on marvel, get a new plot device

I was thinking that they could have easily saved this story by having the demon who wrote the book subtly manipulating Wanda to free him. He's trapped in a special dimension and wants out. He's the first demon meaning he is literally the ONLY one in all the multiverse of his kind. So he mind messes with Wanda to convince her to get America so she could get her kids but in reality he wants her to open a portal to let him out.

@@cb-gz1vl Marvel can't do Magic properly because they don't want their stories to get too dark or to involve any religious/mystical aspects, Magic justb seems like some different type of science in MCU

@@Tony-fq5bn Magic is also like that in DC. They explained it as the energy left over after creation.

Didn’t she find the dark hold In wandavision. I thought she had it at the end of the show

You're right, they left themselves so much potential. Then they wasted all of it. It's just a sad disservice

@@gregowen2022 Natasha Romanov REALLY deserved, and needed, her own movie YEARS earlier. It's hard to give that many characters they time that they deserve in a large ensemble cast MOVIE like The Avengers. Her own movie to really develop her own character would have been great... or a dual-purpose movie with her and Hawkeye.

I think the real problem, is that Disney/Marvel wasnt going to go where it would need to go in order to tell Black Widows story. Similar to how they went with Scott Lang instead of Hank Pym for Antman, they really don't want to go into the darkness of those characters. Also why Magic just seems like science in Marvel, because Marvel isnt willing to truly explore the occult/mysticism

The Soviets actually have a spy school for women trained to use their... feminine wiles to either extract actually useful information from male targets in the West, like diplomats and scientists, or turn them wholesale. IIRC, it was called the Sparrow School.

I think Marvel was basically "gazumped" by the 20th Century Fox movie "Red Sparrow", which had a much better origin story than any MCU writer could have come up with. They were kind-of stuck, after leaving her "on the shelf" for way too long without her own movie, that a "super spy" origin for Black Widow would just look too much like a rip-off of that. So instead it was too little, too late (she's already dead).

They tried to hand wave it with "she was under mind control by the dark hold" but that's the weakest writing imaginable

I suspect that's why Elizabeth Olsen responded to an interview question about being sad about no longer playing that character, by saying she kinda wishes she just signed on for the first few projects rather than devote 10 years of her career to that role. I'd imagine the money is great, but for an actor that cares about the roles they take, it probably stings her pride to go from something like Wind River and then cash in on Wanda. Not that anyone could blame her, but based on her comments and her past roles, it seems like she has an appetite for movies with a little more substance.

I'm not woke, but I do hate normality. Humanity is great precisely because it's creative, ambitious, and individualistic. Normalcy is all about conformity.

people use the word woke and literally describe what men think about of imaginery women 💀 Literally most old female "strong" characters are still hypersexualized and made for the male gaze.

Most males aren’t going to watch a female in a movie without her being attractive

Right? It's cool they were trying to show a character having a mental break, but it became a little contrived when they made everyone act cold to her

Teeny Little Super Guy!

Yes, it was so clear that Natasha was just there for boobs in the beginning. Then the MCU took off and they didn't know what to do. It's why Disney's virtue signals are empty because they couldn't even develop their own character. And you're right they could have expanded Wanda. The MCU has made it clear that they diverged from the comics, so they can't lean on them as an excuse for mishandling a character.

I'm wondering if there was a plan somewhere to have Natasha fall pregnant to Banner. That scene where she tells him she was sterilized was weird. Maybe Banner's gamma sperm would have impregnated her and led to a World War Hulk storyline. Probably just my fan fic really.

That is remarkably well put. I have a few videos lined up, but you need to make this before I do! The way they get into kids' brains from a young age is wild and the existence of hardcore Disney adults really proves it. They sell childhood magic, but you are right that in the end it's just selling. It's a product.

@@gregowen2022 check out the book ‘Subjectivity, the unconscious and consumerism’ by Marlon Xavier it has some really interesting ideas on “Disney Magic” I’ll let you know when I finish my video, if you beat me to it so be it, since it would only be my 2nd vid 😮

You are thinking in terms of money, but this isn't about money, it is about faith. Their unholy faith tells them masculinity is evil and so they preach that message to the masses. Zeal explains why quality unrelated to messaging has gone down at the same time they've increased ideological content- because they aren't selecting for profit, but true believers.

@@samuelskinner7704 why do they want to push the faith though? Disney is a company and faith doesn’t do anything for the bottom line unless it can be monetized. They make true believers so the true believers buy more $h!t because nobody spends money like zealots

@@ashbirk4681 Shareholders care about the bottom line. Disney isn't run by the shareholders. Yes, running the company into the ground is a given, but piety is how hiring is decided, so it is rational. Everyone competes to be more pious, the core focus of the firm is tossed and it goes under and dies and the people who killed it get rewarded and go onto the next one. There is a point looting can't continue, but if they were capable of realizing that, they wouldn't have gone down this path in the first place.

When they announced it, I thought for sure that's what the plot would be. Nope, just a launch platform for Yelena

It was too late at that point. They would have to de-Age Natasha and Clint for AN ENTIRE movie. Where it SHOULD have taken place was DURING the BLIP. The fact that Marvel just SKIPPED over what the characters were up to in that time and no one calls that out is CRAAAAZY to me😭🤦‍♂️. So much story potential with Power being up for grabs and half the world disappearing. Theres no way EVERYone was depressed...a LOT of people would've lost their minds in RAGE. There would be GLOBAL CHAOS if something like that happens, not just mass depression.

Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed them

Yes! They gave themselves so much potential for a complex character dealing with grief and decided "absolute psycho" was the way to end it. Disgusting

The first time I saw Scarlet Witch was in the game X-Men Legends 2, which came out for 6th gen consoles. And in it, she was a villain (only working with the X-Men along with Mag's group as part of an Enemy Mine sitch), so ScarWitch probably was originally conceived as a villain.

@@gregowen2022 I think they could still do it however writing for women is not a strong suit of Marvel. Female characters in general get shortchanged in the MCU. Jane Foster has to be the most underutilized character in the MCU. In Dark World, she spends 75% of the movie being a piece of luggage. In Love and Thunder, her Mighty Thor is Thor's sidekick.

@@gregowen2022 I think some of the reason for how they handled Scarlet Witch so badly is that they had decided that Brie Larson's Captain Marvel was the new "face of Marvel". Captain Marvel just had to be the... well... bestest ever... so Wanda either had to go, or become a villain. Too much competition... and that may apply to Brie Larson, as much as to Captain Marvel...

@@FrankWilliams-wi8zs Marvel may have actually swallowed the Left-wing BS about how people won't go to see a female superhero... in spite of how well Captain Marvel did at the box office. Thus, they may feel a need to FORCE them on viewers (DIE) by ramming them down our throats in ensemble movies and such... and, yes, "tweaking them" into masculine women.

oh please. where are the male superheroes posing like that?

​@@punkbjork In superhero comics💀. Also unlike the female heroes in the MCU ALL the male superheroes are BAREBACKED at least once in their franchises Cap Thor Tony...when he's a genius and being hot is not a character trait Peter Parker...in his first two movies and its played as a joke when MJ tries to take a peak Peter Quill Bruce...but that makes sense Tchalla Drax is always barebacked up until the very last movie in that franchise💀 Namor as well but it can be argued thats his costume...but at the same time he has worn more clothing for a WHILE now in the comics Hugh Jackman as wolverine has done that side pose a couple times I just find it funny how people who care and cry about sexualization sOOOooo much...NEVER talk about how the men as well are done the same💀. In the comics these characters are drawn like God's and Godesses and given unreleastic body proportions cause that's what humans LIKE TO LOOK AT. The most STRIKING art styles and animations always distort body proportions in some way. Theres a philosohpical way to look at it. These characters LOOK perfect...but throught their stories you see that they aren't. So as much as people chase this idea of physical perfection...they'll never truly attain perfection cause it doesn't exist Superficially speaking tho...theres an entire documentary on why humans like looking at things that are "more human than human"🤷‍♂️

​@@punkbjork oh and the original comment never said the male superheroes did it too, they just explained the pose and its usage💀. But since you got so offended that you forgot basic comprehension, I answered it for you😂🤦‍♂️

Her comments on the character were very weird. It's sounds very hypocritical to play a sexual character for years and then when you're older, decry the sexism of it all

@@gregowen2022 right if it was an issue she should have said something in iron man 2

@@gregowen2022 It served her career THEN... but now that she's getting older, it works AGAINST her... and, lo and behold... they seem to have... ahem... replaced her with a younger model.

A fun fact about that, in comics Black Widow is actually as old as Cap, she took a Russian variation of the super soldier serum

Definitely true. I'm watching anime right now to try and see why everyone likes it so much(and do a video). Yes, the milkers are massive, but they still write the women as actual people. What a concept!

Even more ironic, female being mangaka is more acceptable than working in comic industry in USA

@@gregowen2022 "Definitely true. I'm watching anime right now to try and see why everyone likes it so much(and do a video). Yes, the milkers are massive, but they still write the women as actual people. What a concept!" Mate we had fictional women as real defined & interesting characters for literally decades. We only had to stop writing women as characters when feminists got sand in their vaginas about women being written as flawed, at which point female character had to either become entirely replaceable, or become over the top perfect mary sues who could kill like 900 guys without breaking a sweat. The epitome of the Galbrush Paradox in action. Now there's a topic for your next video, the Galbrush Paradox & how capitulating to woke assholes every demand has turned female characters from the nuanced characters we had in the 1970, thru early 2000's, in to nothing but walking talking 2 dimensional boredom.

​@@gregowen2022most of the industry is still make but people complain about the sexism

Now is the time to get out there with a quality product that runs counter to the mainstream. It's all gotten so bland, people are dying for something fresh. I think you'll find a more willing audience than you think. You should really polish it and start shopping it.

Standards? Don't worry, considering how much disappointment, how much the mainstream audience has suffered these days, they probably won't mind finding value in works, which are comsidered by many in entertainment industry 'sub-standard'.

@@lakshaykochhar6799 That's true. But I was talking more of general audiences who hate Hollywood messaging, yet still would not like something that, say, their grandparents' generation would've considered quality. It's like how everyone will complain about "woke Third/Fourth Wave feminism" but think "Second Wave feminism" and its icons are all automatically legit, just being hijacked by modern lefties". The heroine I'm writing isn't someone people would immediately think of as a superhero, nor would the actresses I'd consider for the role necessarily so. But it has nothing to do with "the message" in the current sense, but more on the themes of "being drawn from the water" or "I'll make you fishers of men".

Thank you so much for watching!

Thank you very much! I didn't notice it as a kid, but holy crap that was such a weird scene in a kid's movie, right?

@@gregowen2022 Haha I see why you feel that way, but honestly I don't mind this sort of thing. I think it tends to go over kids' heads, and I think it's nice when pieces of art have stuff that you can come to interpret differently as you grow older. The Incredibles is a good example of this, when you're a kid it's like "ooh fun family superhero movie" and then watching as an adult you're like "holy shit mrs incredible thinks he's cheating on her and that guy just attempted suicide"

Right? It was just so disrespectful and lazy. How do write this character into a spot where they would logically act like a villain? Hmm, seems hard, we'll just go with MIND CONTROL for the seventeenth time

I think they sould start adapting stories from the comics again. That worked pretty well in the first 3 phases.

I'm just glad I dropped that lapel mic. I didn't like that audio. Live and learn

That the MCU has pretty much entirely stopped adapting stories from the comics is one of the most baffling things I've ever seen in my life. There are literally hundreds to choose from and they come with something very much like storyboards already!

I completely agree. Most writers will write a good character who is a man, among other things. Then they write a she woman lady and her womanly womenness is all the she, a woman, is allowed to be. It's a real disservice

That would have been a fun twist and more subtle. That would have been great

I see no problem making a character who embodies stereotypical traits. Emotional, lovesick wrecks don't exist? I don't see the issue. It's far more annoying when they make the woman a hyper-masculine prick, which is also something real that women do, but far more annoying and far less realistic.

@@Selrisitai I don't understand how you can arrive at the conclusion that one stereotype isn't problematic because it exists, while the other is, and that it's somehow less realistic, even though it also exists.

@@henrikhumle7255 what don't you understand. People are quick to cry and feel like they have to tell the whole world about female characters being sexualised and villainized, but feel empowered when a character is a total d**k (Captain Marvel) look at Wanda's gay audience having a meltdown, cause they can't accept she's a villain 😂

​@@henrikhumle7255Yet you femcels wont talk about the Male stereotypes.

It was so sad that she didn't get a real ending and her movie got bumped for captain marvel. She had real potential

I forgot about Hawkeye. He’s way more useless than black widow, but I didn’t see his show either. Yeah it’s not just female characters that Disney is screwing up, it’s all of the characters. Hawkeye was a forgettable stand-in character from the beginning.

@@anotherrandomguy8871 "but I didn’t see his show either." To be fair he never got a show. Oh sure there was TOTALLY a show called Hawkeye.... Shame he wasn't the main character in it.

@@matthewlane oh right, I completely forgot, yeah wasn’t the show more about his daughter than Hawkeye himself? Thanks for the reminder.

@@anotherrandomguy8871 "oh right, I completely forgot, yeah wasn’t the show more about his daughter than Hawkeye himself?" Worse, it was literally just some random teenage girl with a bow & arrow, and the worlds most obnoxious zoomer personality.

@@matthewlaneYour description of this character reminds me of ant-man’s daughter in the recent 3rd installment of the ant-man movies.

Right, nothing about her transformation into a monster makes sense at all, they just took a good character and made a j turn into a ditch. I'm so sad we'll never get a Clint and Natasha movie, hell it could have even been a Disney plus show.

Right? I can understand the Black Widow decision from a marketing standpoint, even if it's still in poor taste. But Wanda? What a waste of a potentially good character! She could have carried them into future phases

@@gregowen2022 I can picture a bunch of guys in a boardroom: "Well, we lost another billion dollars. What do you want to do now." "Do it again! Do it again!"

It is a demonstration of piety- easy to do with shareholder money.

Hahaha, I'll do a Mr. Beast style giveaway when I hit a million. "subscribe to get your olives"

@@gregowen2022 already am...good job 👏

I really appreciate you watching!

I didn't even notice that part! She was done so wrong

Do you realize comics and movies are not the same continuity? :/

Superman isn't more powerful than anyone else combined. Martian Manhunter is "invisible Superman who can read your mind". Even Superman has flat out stated that J'onn J'onzz is the one person he'd fear having to face in open combat.

That's odd. I'll look into it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sJmEiLOlvsC5ZHk.html should work

Yeah, the forced conversion to an all female MCU is not going well. The method they used is also why. Thanos' ashes hadn't floated to the ground before they were shoving these new female versions of the older characters at us. We were never given a reason to like them, we were just told to

There is nothing woke about phase 4. Men still dominate. Shang Chi is a male and will get a sequel. The Eternals had too many characters in it but it was mostly male. Love and Thunder revolved around Thor. Spiderman was about Spiderman. MOM had a woman going crazy. Once you get past The Marvels, the movies largely revolve around men. Women still get shortchanged in the MCU. There is nothing to complain about.

Thank you very much!

Agree that was the best thing about Black Widow and Hawkeye. They were not super powered and knew it. Part of their entire arc was knowing they could not do what the superpowered people can do but had their own skills.

Hahaha, yes. The Stark materia summons every version of the suit like at the end of iron man 3. Now that I think about it, that would be a cool mod to re-skin knights of the round.....

@@gregowen2022 😂 you might me on to something, Greg.

No they aren't, where did you get this from?

@@freddiesolis8531 Who was her father then?

Shit, I didn't even notice the Nebula angle! This is really good stuff. There wasn't going to be a part 3 to this series, but now.....

@@gregowen2022 Oh heck, I'm incredibly glad you liked my comments this much! If you're thinking of continuing the series, another interesting character to look at could be the Wasp. In the comics, the Wasp (Janet van Dyne) is honestly one of the best characters among the Avengers, but in the movies they replaced her with Hope, who's one of the flattest characters I've ever seen. The MCU still has Janet, but she doesn't get to be a hero, most likely because Marvel doesn't have the guts to actually have a middle-aged woman as an Avenger. I'd personally love seeing Scott and Janet as a multi-generational hero duo-it'd be so much fun. But it'll never happen because Marvel is trying desperately to make Hope happen even though there's absolutely nothing to her character. It's kinda impressive that they saw one of the best female characters Marvel comics had to offer and decided to make *this* instead.

@@evelynivy6124 The problem with Hope is the bad writing. She did a great job in what was supposed to be the final scene when she and Scott faced being trapped in the QR. I would also like to see Janet as Wasp as well because they would make a great duo with Scott.

The MCU's Infinty Saga is mostly based on Marvel Comics _The Infinty Gauntlet._ In that story Nebula is the key character that causes Thanos' defeat.

Such a classic!

not YET. We will see what Kathleen Kennedy does to her on the way out the door