Amen !

the study of definitions - a ceremonial immersion in water as an initiatory RITE or sacrament of the christian church - a word to investigate is the word RITE. meaning a formal or ceremonial act or procedure prescribed or customary in religious or other solemn use. It is important to know that the word RITE has a strong connection to the word RITUAL. In fact the word RITUAL comes directly from the latin word RITUALIS - meaning relating to religious rites..Rites oare often to used to initiate someone into a group, organisation or society..RITES are popular among secretive societies, such as the jesuits and the freemasons.. The word that you may want to know its deeper meaning is the word "baptism" When you meticulously study the word baptism and study its definitions to see what other words are related to it you should eventualy come to the conclusion that EXTERNAL baptism is a magic ritual. When someone is baptised from the "outside" he is considered to have entered a "coven-ant" with the "lord"..As a noun the word covenant comes from the latin word "convenir" meaning come together, unite, be suitable, agree. Etymologically means ( to enter into an formal agreement or contract". The word "covenant" means also an agreement or contract between 2 or more persons to do or not to do something specified or a solemn agreement, between the members of the church to act together in harmony with precepts of the gospel. When the word COVENANT is split up into 2 words, it transforms into the word "coven" and the suffix "ant"....The word COVEN means ""an assembly of witches, especially a group of 13. So, the deeper meaning of the word "baptism" is ""An agreement (contract) with a "coven" controlled by witches or lords. Therefore when people are baptized, they have agreed to serve in the capacity of a coven or make an agreement with a coven, which is controlled by witches or lords. The question therefore people SHOULD be asking is "the one performing the baptism a member of a coven of the true LORD or is he a member of a coven of witches who worship false gods. The witches who have infiltrated many churches on this earth are the dark magicians. The magicians have masters that are known as demons.. Their demonic masters are the lords that people make contracts with when they agree to be baptized by the minions of the dark magicians. That is why it is very important to know who is really in charge of a church before agreeing to be baptized by a member of that church. The process of "external baptism" promises the body, mind and soul of a man/woman, or child to a coven of a church which can be controlled by a coven on the true LORD or a coven of witches who worship false gods. If you go to church, you may really want to think this before participating in baptism. TRUE BAPTISM OCCURS IN THE BODY, NOT OUTSIDE OF IT. Because of this, external baptism will NOT empower people to achieve ""spiritual freedom"". Churches that practice external baptism are misleading their members becuase external baptism cannot save their members from "original sin"..To rise above original sin requires a transformation "within" meaning that ....unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of god. What the churches do not teach is that the TRUE CHURCH of god is man's body, whether male or female - the bible even says ""you are the temple of god""......

Where does it say in the Bible to baptize infants who have no cognitive understanding of what it means nor ability to confess Jesus as their lord and savior? Where in the Bible does it say sprinkling water on an infant's head is an example of baptism even as Lutherans explain it as an act of salvation? Jesus parents didn't have him baptized as an infant. Jesus chose to be baptized as an adult by immersion to signify his death, burial, and resurrection. There is no examples of John the Baptist sprinkling babies heads. He baptized those who were old enough to make the choice.

@@robdee2555 Where does it say Jesus was baptized by immersion, or anyone for that matter? Interestingly, the New Testament never prescribes a mode of baptism at all. Where does it say not to baptize babies? Look at the end of Exodus 12, then go to Colossians 2 and look at how circumcision and baptism is now connected. Now go to 1 Corinthians 1 and Acts 16 and you can see there are households and families being baptized at once.

@@robdee2555 As for Jesus not being baptized as an infant, of course He wasn't. The sacrament of baptism wasn't even instituted yet... In order to have the Baptist view on the sacraments, you must not only ignore 1500 years of historical Christianity, but you must twist and add to Scripture quite frankly. I understand, I used to be Baptist myself; but when you look at Scripture without any theological presuppositions there is no way you can hold to the Baptist view. It's just not biblical.

To believe in Jesus Christ haha. What Lutheran pastors are saying is Baptism saves because it’s in scripture and a clear means of Grace, same with Holy Communion and Confession and Absolution. If you believe in Jesus Christ you’re saved but if you reject getting baptized or confessing your sins or are unrepentant a pastor can’t give you assurance of your salvation. It’s really to combat the Adversaries whispers in your head. He likes to pull the, “but do you believe that you believe in Christ” type of thing.

read James 1:1, it says that he is speaking to Jews

Acts 2:38-39

@@Dilley_G45 what about ephesians1:13

Lutherans believe it is one of the means God uses to impart faith, as there are verses like the one in Peter that describe baptism as being a means of saving us. An important aspect of this is the doctrine of resistible grace, that the grace of God can be resisted, that the work of the Holy Spirit is resistible. So those who we know were baptized yet fell away was due to their resistance of the work of the Spirit, a persistence in unrepentant sin, hardening their hearts and driving out the Holy Spirit, and the faith that saves. The problem stems from the position that the grace of God is irresistible, from what I can see.

Chris G's answer is perfect. The only thing I add is that baptism is word and water for the forgiveness of our sins, i.e. regeneration. It is a sign and a proof of our salvation by grace through faith (also a gift). It is the reality of our salvation per se. But, we know it that we continue to be sinners, we commit sins every day and Satan always comes as an accuser, he points the Law under our nose and he puts as in front of God and ask for our condemnation. Our contrition and repent based on the materiality, the objectivity, the reality, the tangible fact of our baptism, is the only security we have against him. A gift of God so that our faith is not only a phantasy, but a material fact, as Jesus is incarnated. Luther used to say against devil ''Go away, your accusations have no validity on me. I 'm baptized''. We are like dogs begging for the touch of our master. This touch, so real and actual, is baptism and holy communion and absolution.

@@easternmcg , thank you. Your answer makes perfect sense. I don't believe grace is irresistible. I have believed in eternal security, and still think the Bible supports it. But I've begun to doubt this. I have a cousin who, forty years ago, was a part of what was then called Campus Crusade for Christ. I thought this was wonderful. I admired him. Forty years on, I have little doubt that the man is a sociopath. I still don't believe he lost his salvation, rather, that he may never have had it. ( Another view, which I think is Biblically supportable, is the idea of extreme carnality as a possibility in a believer's life. ) What disturbed me about my cousin forty years ago was a wind - up doll quality he had. He seemed programmed, and artificial. I was a Christian, and immature and flakey. My cousin, who was much less likely to be indecorous than I, seemed to me like the man who wasn't there, although I didn't acknowledge this to myself at the time.

@@user-nj1rc9hk4h , thank you for an eloquent reply. I cherish my infant baptism, and decades in the Baptist South could never persuade me to be re - baptized. I can believe that baptism is the sign and seal of salvation for those who believe, but that prepositional phrase is of supreme importance, and Lutherans don't say it nearly enough for my comfort.

Ultimately, only Jesus saves. If that's true, how does baptism save? Because it is one of the means of grace through which God has chosen to give us Jesus. Baptism is a gift which we cannot in any way merit, but we can choose to reject the gift, as I presume your friend along with Hitler, Stalin, and many others chose to reject the gift.

There is no other kind of Baptism. That's why Paul calls it the laver of regeneration.

What else are you going to baptize someone with?? Orange juice?

@@lukasg9031 I FOUND OUT , YOU NEED NIETHER TO BE BAPTISED!

@@mathiasniemeier4359 you need to be baptized… Read all these verses, come back, and tell me how none of these are connected to salvation… Matthew 28:19-20 Mark 16:15-16 John 3:3-7 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:35-38 Acts 22:12-16 Romans 6:1-4 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Galatians 3:24-27 Ephesians 5:25-27 Colossians 2:11-15 Titus 3:4-7 1 Peter 3:18-22

@@lukasg9031 how bout FIRE? Matt 3:11 ".....he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with FIRE”

It's very dangerous to skip words out of a verse, let alone out of the full chapter and bible, when discussing something so important. Jesus never once said that he 'cleaned the baptism waters' like you have also mentioned? I really like to believe in the truth, and appreciate the discussion! But I don't think basing your perspective on 2 verses is not "extraordinarily textually-based" .... I did a bible study on verses on baptism and they were nearly all connected to a repentance / turning from sins and believing in Jesus (yes God in His kindness enable us to believe... we really need His grace!!!

@Gene Wells What would you say that teaching is?

@@tedrosenbladt9976 "church of Christ" so called do believe in baptismal regeneration but only baptize those who are of "the age of accountability" they reject original sin

Jesus instituted baptism just before His ascension- Matthew 28:19. This was after the cross. Therefore, doesn't apply to the thief on the cross.

Lutherans don't proclaim that someone is not saved if they have faith but are not baptized. Baptism (and the Lord's Supper) take effect on believers alone. Mark 16:16 says "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned." Notice that it says the one who has disbelieved only will be condemned. Therefore, someone may be baptized but if they have no faith, they still stand condemned. So faith takes utmost priority - no one is saved without faith in Christ. However when they do believe (and so are saved), suddenly their baptism also takes effect and are also saved by baptism; not because of the waters, but because of God's promise of forgiveness and salvation connected to the baptism due to that person's faith. So yes, those who are not baptized are still saved by their faith. But when they are also baptized or respectfully take the Lord’s Supper, they receive another wave of salvation and forgiveness.

“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭25‬-‭27‬ ‭

@erictorres7743 There are many connections we find about what God does in, with, and through water. And how amazing is it that, where the flood in Noah's day had God visiting His judgment on us sinners directly, and yet later, in the waters of baptism, He connects us to the grace of His Son, Jesus Christ, upon Whom He poured all His judgment, cleansing the waters of baptism (by infusing it with His word) in order that those waters would deliver to us His forgiveness-which is to say that those waters of baptism deliver us sinners in and through His Son, bringing us into Him (leaning on St. Paul's words)? So much to unpack. Truly the waters of baptism are FAR more of a flood-a flood of grace-than the flood of Noah's day ever was.

Baptism isn't our work. It's God's work for us.

Baptism is not a work of our own, its God working through the water and word.