Clan Jade Falcon: The Summoner isn't just an upgraded Thunderbolt, it's a totally different and superior machine. Also Clan Jade Falcon: We caved and built the Thunderbolt IIC.

As a new player, whenever I see these videos I always respond with "idk, why am I supposed to love this mech"

The Thunderbolt is an odd mech to give the IIC treatment to, as it's usually done to address a mech's shortcomings. The Thunderbolt is a solid all-rounder. A direct upgrade of the original could be interesting though - simply upgrading the weapons to clan spec frees up 6 tons, upgrade to double heatsinks and you can add a pair of machineguns and an ER large laser in each arm without any heat issues at longer ranges, and still have enough weight left over to swap the SRM 2 for an SRM 6.

Jade Falcons sure love the Thunderbolt, since it shares some similarities with their Thor/Summoner. For that, they converted any Thunderbolts they've captured with Clan weapons. So fond of the Thunderbolt to the point of making the Thunderbolt IIC to share some parts with Summoners

Saw the jump jet variant of the Thunderbolt 2C get excellent use during one of the narrative games at Historicon. Jade Falcons were holding a major industrial center against Hell's horses, roughly 30k BV per side, and the Thunderbolt 2C was consistently a pain in the ass for Hell's horses. Enough firepower they had to take it seriously, but enough jump jets to make it really annoying in a city fight. It actually ended up being more impactful than the Jade Phoenix on the battlefield.

Holy hell. I came for the outstanding mech content...I was not expecting a proper lesson in economics complete with Hayek and Rothbard references. Well done brother, well done!

These kinds of macro scale logistical questions of supply chains for specific parts, and having that translate to combat effectiveness, would be the exact kind of video game I would love to see in the battletech universe. heck, even one where you play the logistical angle and do not have control over the variants and models selected for production would be a cool angle.

I firmly believe that the core problem with any economics model is that the people with money in a society, and the people with intelligence to utilize the model’s propositions, are rarely the same people or even on speaking terms. Also, cool mech!

I dunno if it's a thing anymore , like it's glaringly missing from the Jade Falcon Random Units list in Tamar Rising . The Thunderbolt C 2 appears in the list though , I'd guess that's what that Thunderbolt line is doing now

Ah the T-bucket. It's one fabulous heavy that I have always loved and especially hated. It never ceases to amaze me how I get clobbered by statistically amazing critical hits to my head and ammo early on in an encounter, yet others driving the T-bolt slug it out in incredible examples of durability. Maybe one day I'll add armored locations to the cockpit and ammo bins. I like the second version you displayed better than the blast furnace. I especially liked your using "command" economy, a cuss word I often use with pencil necked government managers who just stare back blankly.

I didn't know there was a IIC of the Thunderbolt, the original had so many variants I thought maybe it was lost in there because there was a LOT of them! Dunno the LH-Impoved isn't a bad laser, but the basic inner sphere mech had a thing going where at 65t it was close to or nearly the same as a lot of assault mechs with something like 12-13t of armour alone. Less firepower of course compared to anything clan in some ways, but they were extremely hard to get rid of and sometimes just being the last arsehole standing at the end of a fight is a win. So being that little slugger who could take Rocky Balboa beatings was something I would have liked to see with Clan-Ferro armour points instead of just being another very warm 70t mech with clan weapons

Clan Black Sheep, Dark Caste, has procured the plans to all mechs ever produced by ANY Clan. You see being the Clans 'Sneaky Bastards' we introduced a back door into a chip thats so widely used that the inner sphere had included it in their productions for the Wolfs Dragoons. Having recently gotten the Essentials Box and being Clan, albeit not the popular vision there-of, the Standees will get the IIc treatment and a 2nd Yen Lo Wang 3 is in the works.

Can't wait for a "why do we love the viking iic" because that mech is something else.

I love these videos. The history of it all is something I get lost in every time.

The newest of IIC designs. I wouldn't mind seeing more interpretations like this in the setting, though it would be designs that had a history at the time of the Exodus. I would say I was surprised Malvina didn't want to create a Firestarter IIC, but it is hard to reinvent the wheel and a niche design probably wouldn't be that popular.

I'll have to watch in a bit, but I wanted to drop a pre-comment on the Thunderbolt itself. Many many years ago on Frontier Lands (A BTMux, which is a very complex and hard to explain thing, but basically text based real time battletech tabletop MMO) the owner had us running 3025 tech for a bit, but finally when we updated to level 2 IS we got given a new free starter mech, it was a Thunderbolt variety. I can't remember which one anymore, as this was way back in 2006 or so, but god I spent so many hours plodding about in that machine. Good lord I miss Frontier Lands so much.

IIC 3 (Nostalgia build)- Keep 350xl add Ferro & Endo, 4 JJ. RA - ER PPC, LA - 2 AP Gauss (1t A), RT LRM20+Artemis (3t A), CT - SRM6 Streak (1t A), LT - 3 ER Med Lasers, ECM, L-AMS. Max armor and fill DHS.

There’s a record sheet for the IIC 2 (and some other Mechs) in the downloads section of Iron Wind Metals website.

I can't think of a single mech that utilizes heavy lasers (of any size or "improved") that I dont immediately say "......but pulse....you have F-ing clan pulse." And if I wanted/needed the single location damage output theres cGuass or cER PPC without the explode and/or to hit penalty, better damage per heat too.

Since there's not really anything connecting the original Thunderbolt to the Clan IIC version beyond a vague allusion to its configuration cobbled together from spare parts, I will withhold my commentary on the original, save that it's one of my favorite heavy mechs for just being a good workhorse heavy. As for the Thunderbolt IIC, as usual it boils down to: "Freaking Heavy Lasers, man. Just...why?" The ONLY benefit of the Heavy Laser vs something like a Clan ER-PPC or ER-Large Pulse Laser is the damage. While the damage improvement is substantial, it comes at the cost of either heat efficiency or range flexibility. Due to how heat budgeting works, individually hot weapons reduce the granularity of weapon selection you can reliably use on any given turn. Or put more simply: If you're going to boat 2 (or more) super-hot weapons you had damn well ensure you have the heatsinks to completely cover firing both of them at once or it's just going to lead to wasted tonnage. And the Prime Variant of the Thunderbolt IIC....doesn't even do that. To wit, I'd refit the Thunderbolt IIC with the following: -2x ER-Large Pulse Lasers (replacing the Improved Heavy Lasers) -1x ATM 6 with two tons of ammo (1 ton of HE, and 1 Ton of Standard) -3x Clan Flamers (replacing the ER Medium Lasers) for killing Infantry, Elementals and for clearing out buildings/cover. OR -3x CER-Small Lasers for short range work vs Vehicles and Mechs trying to play grab-ass. This leaves 13 Double Heat Sinks and 5 tons of free space to play with. We have a few options here: First possibility: Add 2 Double Heat Sinks back (to 15) and 3 Jump Jets. (hey, Variant 2 has four Jump Jets on it and released only three years after the original; so it's obviously wasn't that hard of a problem to add them into the design) This machine is capable of fighting at nearly any range for protracted periods of time without compromising its protection or speed. It's no Warhammer IIC, but it'd be a fine compliment to any Clan Star that includes them. Second possibility: If one doesn't like the Jump Jets from option 1, then drop them for a Targeting Computer, upgrade the C-Flamers/ER-SLs to a trio of Small Pulse Lasers and add either a half-ton of ATM ammo or a Light Active Probe, or shave a half ton of armor off and add another double heat sink back (bringing the total up to 16) You can't Alpha Strike without generating some net heat, but you can fire your main weaponry safely until you close the distance to use the Small Pulse Lasers.

Great video! I like to see a Catapult k2 version of the Archer. Looking forward to more videos.

Yeah that Mech was news to me. I love the TBolt, so finding there's a IIC is fun. The SLRM15 is an odd choice, but of course can act like a shotgun direct fire for crit seeking with the ER M lasers once the insane hole punching has had a go. I'd definitely make it a reg Clan LRM 15 for those ++DHS.

I love this mech and i do make some changes, Streak LRM is terrible so i “ downgrade”to an ATM 9 with HE and ER ammo , drop one of the heavy lasers for more heat sinks and a targeting computer with accuracy and heat modules. This beast runs relatively cool and hits like a bus. Especially in the mid range where i can accurately alpha strike every once and awhile and a second variant that does all that and replaces all the er mediums with small pulse lasers if i am expecting Power armor, infantry or vehicles

Any day Froggy puts out a video makes the world a slightly better place

I didn’t know about this mech! Those crazy Clanners’ll make a IIC of anything!

An interesting design process, I've never encountered one.

I'd drop one of the ER Medium lasers, change the streak LRM to a regular LRM, and change the heavy lasers to ER Large Lasers. Then I'd make sure there is plenty of heat sinks and ammo. I do like Streak LRMs for mech designs that don't involve more than 15 double heat sinks to keep the thing relatively cool, as they can be great crit seekers on battered mechs. It also helps for times when ammo supplies can be a bit thin. I wouldn't trade all LRM launchers for streak LRM launchers, but they do add a nice crit seeker to a heavy penetration weapon like a Gauss.

I would keep any ammo out of the CT. In HBS Battletech half the Thunderbolts I destroy are from ammo explosions. Not being familiar with current Battetech, I would rebuild the Thunderbolt to put the ammo in the same torso as the missile launcher then use clan versions of the existing weapons. If possible, use Endosteel and fero fiberous armor. Then split any tonnage saved between more armor and more heat sinks.

Another awesome vid :-) this is another IIC I didn't know existed but always thought one should...I'm inner sphere forever so my ignorance on clan mechs is vast lol...the thunderbolt is such a good frontline mech it deserved a IIC improvement to be fair :-)

I took the Thunderbolt IIC 2 as the basis for my Thunderbolt IIC ISM. I fluff it as being developed by the Scorpion Empire in 3152. It upgrades to a Clan XL engine, and carries an IS Plasma Rifle/w 3 tons of ammo in the left arm, and a Clan ER Large Pulse Laser. A Watchdog CEWS is carried in the CT, with 3 Clan ER Medium Lasers in the right torso, with a Clan ATM-6/w 3 tons of ammo in the right torso. It retains the jump jets, Ferro Fibrous armor, standard chassis, and H-D gyro of the IIC 2.

I think it was you? who said that the Thunderbolt is like if people were still walking around in current year with flint lock pistols. The IIC Thunderbolt is like if H&K decided to make their next rifle with an underslung flint lock, and its AWESOME.

I didn't know this existed, but am unsurprised. Also how did the clanners make a thunderbolt look even chonkier without going full cube?

I find this to be a great design. However, I would replace the Streak LRM15 for a normal Clan LRM15 and use the saved weight for more heat sinks. That would hit just right imo.

This is probably one of the only IIC mechs where I would rather have the IS original, especially given the price in and out of universe. That might be my bias showing though considering how much I love the original Tbolt.

sweet mate more 2C content and i just got home something good to watch wile im sick in bed thank heaps frog

My take on Thunderbolt IIC: Drop Lrm or switch it to Streak SRM6, Drop Heavy Lasers to ER LL - fill rest of the tonnage with Streak SRM ammo (2-3 tons should be OK) and DHS + Ferro Armour For Extra Weight saving and more armor + ECM. Should be Very Cold enough To alpha strike several times or so. + You can Cover All ranges: ER LL For long, Rest is Medium - Close Range. (With Endo steel we can put even more stuff, but as I understand correctly clan Tbolt don't have it)

I'm currently using an up-armored Thunderbolt in HBS with no barrel o' bees on the shoulder, so I'd field the laser lightshow version II for sure. If one miraculously found its way this far out into the periphery intact, that is.😅

The economics lesson was welcome and needed to explain the design.

*Thunderbolt IIC sits down next to Summoner on the first day of school* Summoner: … Thunderbolt IIC: … Summoner: I like your backpack.

I didn't know it existed and now I want it as a miniature!

As popular and widespread as the old Thunderbolt was, I'm surprised there wasn't a IIC from before the omnimechs.

I never even knew the Thunderbolt received the 2C treatment! It doesn't look too bad...as long as the heat issue gets addressed. Maybe lose the LRM15 for something a bit smaller and use the saved space for heat sinks? As much as I like powerful energy weapons, sporting lasers that both send your heat through the roof as well as explode when things don't go their way doesn't really intrigue me. What's wrong with good old, tried-and-true ER large lasers or large pulse lasers? Keep 'em comin', Frog!

I got an idea. Replace the Streak LRM with two LRM 5's. Add Modular Armor on all forward torsos and (if possible) arms. Take the Heavy Large Lasers and make them ER Large Lasers, upgrade the Medium Lasers to Heavy Mediums. I don't know if this is possible to make stat wise but my reasoning for this build is to make it a durable creeper mech. Eventually you will be a big problem up close, but if you get targeted while closing the distance then any damage taken can be mitigated. Even if adding the Modular Armor isn't possible I'd try and add MASC.

Looks like the SLRM-15 was taken off spares for Summoner-Ts and the IHLLs from Hellbringer-Gs. I agree the SLRM-15 is too much. For the tonnage dedicated to it, a standard LRM-15 or 20 with FCS would work better. Also Hawkeye 58 TTS and Model J-D 067 comm system are both from Summoner. Forging Omni H24 is from Hellbringer.

Jade Falcons: How hard can economics be? Clan Sea Fox: *(Laughing Hard)*

Oh its getting deeper and deeper 😀. Never even heard of this one 🙂. Thanks for doing all the IICs, not really any battletech KZfaqrs do them. Are you going to do the regular Clan second line mechs after the IICs?

I'd be so cool if Catalyst'd grant us a new mini of this bad boi.

The Thunderbolt IIC, or, as we like to call it, "the Summoner we have at home"

I am surprised that the Multi Mission Launchers are not more common. 1 launcher firing Long & Short range missiles is better weight management than dedicated launchers .

Ah, the unknown Hasty Ironfoot IIC.

Hey, at least Joe Smith got a proverbial head-pat.

Let's see, swap the IHL for L Pulse, swap AR to 11t FF, drop one er medium, switch streak 15 for ATM 6 with 1.5t ammo, add an ecm suite, and add a targetting computer. Max damage is 52 at range, AR is slightly higher and backed by ecm, accurate as all get out, and your arms don't blow up.

Ah the clanners. A society that by all rights should suffer from gurellia o clock far far worse than the capellans or Combine but plot armor demands they don't

Post-Clan Invasion battlemech designs vary so wildy. The new IIC designs The Summoner was Clan Jade Falcon's favorite mech before and during the invasion. Its a very solid, but expensive design. Its arguable inspiration, the Thunderbolt heavy mech, is a solid design with some sources saying it was "the first heavy battlemech". The Thunderbolt IIC uses a high power Extralight Engine which raises its cost to be greater than some entire mechs, almost the cost of a brand new Summoner heavy omnimech. I don't really understand the point of it. It seems to have designed without a real goal in a unit. Its Streak Long Range Missile launcher is heavy and cannot be used for indirect fire. Its Improved Heavy Large Lasers are only medium range and very heavy inefficient. Its best weapons are the Extended Range Medium Lasers, but those seem to be token secondary weapons. The best I can come up with is that its a slightly cheaper Summoner, made for Clan Mechwarriors who can't think of new tactics. Its fast, its strong, it shuts down and/or explodes quickly.

There is an official thunderbolt iic 2 record sheet. Its on iron wind metals download page only

Never Knew about a IIC version of it. Was not a fan of the original Thunderbolt, It really needed Case. I cannot count the number of times I encountered it in the HB Battletech Game. shot a LRM 10 at a fresh one and just read (Ammo Explosion)(Ammo Explosion)(Ammo Explosion) and watch it fall over.

I will never understand the Clan obsession with heavy laser technology and putting way too many of them on singular platforms. Follow the Thunderbolt's original design ethos: One big laser in the arm, three smaller lasers in a torso, big can of missiles on the shoulder. Use the remaining weight for extra heatsinks so you can fire the big one every turn if necessary. This stupid thing produces more heat than a Stalker.

Descending upon a thunderclap and striking like thunder itself

I work as an accountant, so economics lessons are no challenge to me. In fact, by now everybody should know just HOW bad command economy is. Almost a full century of Communism has proven that extensively. Even when usually free market nations go command economy temporarily due to war or such, it´s usually a nightmare. THIS mech, however is HOT, one better never fires more than one of the Heavies plus the 3 ER mediums. I knew it exists, but i was not aware of its background story or its current issues, like the Jade Falcons being pretty much gone.

I would just swap the IHLL with more conventional ERLL. A little FF and a pair of extra sinks, and you are good to go. Much like my cluster of Ironhold BA, my Tbolt IIC is in Ghost bear colors.

I can see the reasoning for the Streak LRM 15 with the rile this mech is to have. That said it's still a bad design choice. Again as you mentioned take that out for a standard clan LRM 15, add some more heat sinks maybe a targeting computer and this thing becomes a Monster.

I did not know it existed!

Thanks for the economics lesson lol

2 ER LLs, 3 MPLs , Clan ATM

We have summoner at home....

It's kind of baffling how clan engineers took one of the most solid, well-optimized 3025 designs and made a completely unoptimized mess out of it. It's stronger than the OG Tbolt solely due to the sheer raw power of clan tech, as opposed to adherence to good design principles. Kind of a shame, given the legacy of the original Tbolt.

Remember folks, you do not choose the Thud life. The Thud life chooses you. ;)

Love almost all the IIC designs, but the base variant is marginal IMO because I don't like the Streak LRM. It's a brawler with the iHL's, so I'd drop the ERML's and LRM, and add a 2 ton TC and go with 2x Streak6's and 2 HS. For the v2 I'd drop the HLL, SPL, and a HS for LRM15 with 2 tons ammo.

4:00 No, actually, as an avid Perun watcher, the econ lesson made me feel quite at home... Really, it just whetted my appetite, do you have more?

How do we improve the thunderbolt? Make it squarer

Nice a good way to start the day. Now does the streak lrm 15 also have no minimum range like other clan lrms?

The Thunderbolt is my favourite heavy, only closely followed by the Guillotine. Day 3 of requesting Why Do We Love The Thug

Holly Raptor Jesus, What is it with Clan Technicians and there need to creat completly oversized Dissco ovens, I mean that Monster could could heat a hole Hamlet after an Alpha strike in Both variants.

I knew about the Thunderbolt IIC and it didn't appeal to me. I tried to modify it to be a suddo Awesome. 3 ER-PPC's 1 in LA, 2 in LT with LRM 10 (1ton ammo)in RT, TAG in the RA, and Targeting Comp in RT. 24 [48] DHS Heat: 51/48 Standard Structure and Armor 8.5 tons. 280 XL engine Movement: 4/6. Once I got my Marauder IIC (Foxburn) I stripped the ER-PPCs, and DHS, and sold the rest.

Never actually used the clan version...but can see a ton of possibilities not "official" that would make this mech a wee bit scarier....not a fan of the streak srm15, just no

And the Hunchback IIC gets a bad rep... LOL

Honestly, a Streak SRM 15 makes far more sense.

A good chassis but a total mess with the original weapons load out. If ever there was a mech that would make you scratch your head asking "What were they thinking?" this is it. Replace the heavy lasers with ER or Pulse, replace the Streak 15 with 2 normal LRM 15's and you are on your way to a viable load out and a good long range support mech.

Clan guns kick but

\o/

This here really is a bit of an oddball, in that it is a "IIC" in name but not in conception. Honestly this is the exact opposite of a IIC for the amount of dedicated design work went into overhauls like the Warhammer, Marauder, Clint, etc. Hammering out how to make the original machine well-balanced while not losing its original intended function. Moreover, given its origins... This isn't something fixing supply chain snarls, it's *exacerbating* them. You build this machine because all these parts are piling up in one place, alright that makes sense. Problem. For every one Thunderbolt IIC built that's three Omnimechs/2nd Lines at a different factory that are missing *their* parts and cannot be completed, because the dedicated equipment has all of the sudden taken a 90° turn and ended up somewhere completely different. Sure you get one usable mech rather than three unfinished mechs because of things getting lost between point A and point B... But you still have three unfinished mechs, which are now even further delayed as the equipment slapped into the Thud needs to be replaced.

Uhm.. are Heat Exchangers a thing?

Streak LRM AND heavy lasers? Hard pass! Though I do like the lore of this being a symptom treating adaptation in the face of the Inner Sphere naturally not accepting the Falcon ways. Especially since many of them would have living memory of better days under Lyran money making.

As much as I love a Thunderbolt, this thing is prime Clan- irrational, unsustainable, and over priced. I know it's supposed to be "use what we have". Streak LRMs are useful, but in that mounting if it's a direct fire I'm a billionare. Either the Falcons have reduced a T-bolt to hands on knees twerking when it fires it's long range weapons, or it's an air defense mount. Either way, I'm embarrassed for it.

I have not used a Thud IIC and I refuse to use one. It is just so ugly. 😭

What a waste of a 350 XL engine.