Do you think adding horsepower is the answer to improve NASCAR’s racing?

Refusing to add horsepower is jus another example of NASCAR’s current motto: “Give the people what they want….. five years too late and when they’re already gone.”

NASCAR not wanting to increase horsepower is similar to how Formula One Management (FOM) not wanting to add more teams (Andretti for example) but they keep adding more races on the F1 schedule. Both NASCAR and F1 have annoying managers/owners.

I think there’s a bigger problem than just horsepower. There is a major disconnect between NASCAR leadership and both drivers and fans. The drivers and fans are on the same page : absolutely pissed that leadership appears uninterested in anything we have to say, drivers and fans alike The playoffs are an issue. The schedule is an issue. The car is an issue. The viewing experience is an issue. The promotion of drivers and their personalities is an issue. And yes, horsepower is a legitimate major issue. One of these being an issue, actually, isn’t an issue. Nothings perfect, and most fans don’t expect perfection. But all these issues mounting on each other eventually will break the camel’s back. And guess what, NASCAR and the teams are not growing and fixing their own personal money issues until they correct the decisions that have alienated the fans and wrecked the racing product. It’s really simple actually. A decent amount of happy fans equals moneybags, while tons and tons of uninterested or unhappy fans equals no moneybags. It’s all supply and demand. Right now NASCAR is supplying gimmicky boring racing which has little to no demand, and isn’t delivering on the true actual consumer demands we fans share. This is basic economics, so NASCAR is essentially run by non-driver mediocre businessmen fully willing to put their pride before the success of the sport. I truly believe that 90% of drivers and die-hard fans could run the sport better without even putting in much effort. There’s no reason to trust in the sport’s leadership anymore, they’ve proved how little they view us fans and the drivers. It’s waiting time for the next wave of leaders, and we just gotta cross our fingers they actually care about NASCAR in at least some minimal capacity.

I want more horsepower. I want the drivers to show off their abilities. I think what we have at intermediates is fine, maybe we can tweak it a bit and add like 30-50 more hp, but other than that, it’s fine. But for god’s sake, road courses and short takes NEED the power. Those are the tracks that genuinely require skill and will definitely benefit more.

“There’s some gearing things.” Pretty sure slamming taller gears in and making the engines rev higher is more expensive than increasing horsepower…

Nobody in the sport says no to more HP. Except Nascar itself!

If you go listen to Harvick, when he was on Dale, junior download, he explained that during a practice session with the next GEN car they were limited on the horsepower, but NASCAR wasn’t allowing them to make any adjustments to the car. At the end of the test NASCAR let them do whatever they want to the car to see what they could find in it and Harvick‘s team took off the tapered spacer on the intake, got more horsepower and found that the car drove much better. What I’m getting at is if you can simply remove the tapered spacer, and the horsepower is there in the motor, how the hell does it cost more money to run an engine that’s already prepped to run at a higher horsepower and you’re choking it down with a tapered spacer???? Harvick also said the argument of cost is absurd.

I understand that motorsports fans are fickle and I get why NASCAR would rather not listen to what social media has to say. But when it's the drivers who are saying that this car needs more horsepower, and NASCAR STILL refuses to do that, then that's a complete and utter joke. Drivers understand these cars more than you Steve. Fucking listen to them.

Not only do I think a horsepower boost would help the product. As a fan of the sport for going over 20 years it bothers me that there’s affordable sports cars with more power than full fledged race cars

I grew up in the late 90’s and early 2000’s nascar, and one thing we loved about the 800hp cars back then was how hard they were to drive, and watching them sail off in to turn 1 at Charlotte at well over 200mph was awesome, and they screamed! Its like listening to an F1 car from the V10 era, then listening to todays V6 hybrid engine. The V10 is a sensory overload, and as a Motorsports fan, we love it! Watching the drivers saw at the wheel for traction coming off the corners at Bristol or Dover was awesome! You don’t really see that today. The cars aren’t wild and out of control. They are very tame. Heck, even watching an old Gen 4 go around Sonoma was awesome with them wallowing about transitioning from corner to corner, watching guys like Jeff Gordon sawing the wheel and playing with the throttle to find grip. More power made it more entertaining.

I remember at the end of the '14 season, when they announced the lower horsepower, Ryan Newman said, It's all about that right foot. If you lower the horsepower, anyone can drive these things wide open. And thank you for the montage of the high horsepower days. I remember going to qualifying and races at Texas and without ear protection the hairs in your ears vibrate, there was no better sound than listening to that 900 HP scream.

1.) They don’t want to spend money 2.) They don’t care

Miss a few years ago of guys going 210 into the corner down to 180. Driving the hell of it. Breaking track records nearly every week.

This truly has been my biggest problem above all with nascar, just add the horsepower literally everyone has been saying that

IMAGINE 900 HP on the fat tire they have now! 🔥❤️🏁

I think it’s a lot of the answer to improve the racing mainly on short tracks and road courses but also I think the ride height rule is some of it too and Goodyear needs to build a compatible tire

I would love to see them try 900 HP at Richmond. If they can put on a 100 lap special and it's memorable, then you found you answer

I speak for everyone when I say: *Fire Steve Phelps.*

Thinking about it, when was the last time a driver had to nurse the car around a super speedway or move around to find cool air because they were overheating? There are hardly any blow ups these days. The equipment isn't being pushed like it used to, as well as the drivers.

Even if they had more hp to short tracks and road courses I think that would be fine but kept intermediate and super tracks at the 625

We’re not supposed to be downshifting at martinsville of all places, the fact that Phelps blindly doesn’t see the right alternative to bringing more horsepower is nothing more but collateral damage to say that the product of racing right now is good

Yes more horsepower! Been saying it since 2015 since they got rid of it!

More power yes. Narrow the tire width. Put it in the hands and right feet of the drivers.

So they say it costs more Haven’t teams come up and said it wouldn’t cost that much more? Plus if they add more horse power make the racing better, that’d bring in more fans, more fans more sponsors, more sponsors more money more people start more teams

When I was 6 years old in 1970 you couldn't separate me from my father. He started a drive shaft company so that he had a balancer to balance his racing engines. He was known across the eastern part of Canada is the best head Porter there was. He was written up an American magazines as the Roger Penske of Atlantic Canada. He had an eight Bay garage that when dealers couldn't figure out what was wrong with the car they sent it to him. I have been around racing and horsepower for a very long time. At 15 my dad took me to the 79 Daytona 500 I have seen it all. I don't care whether it's a super speedway or a short track High horsepower separates the boys from the men. When you can buy an American-made street car with over 700 horsepower and race cars have less than that on the track I think there's a problem. And when you say brakes can't handle it since they've gone to the bigger Wheels NASCARs has the biggest breaks they've ever had. I really think these cars should have much higher horsepower I think they should have more horsepower than you would ever agree with when you've got to hit the brakes the racing gets good. High horsepower separates the boys from the men oh shit that's sexist separates the good from the not quite so good. Just a thought from a really old guy who's been around Racing for a long time anyway it's just a thought. And my father won well over 250 feature races and seven short track championships at four different race tracks. We raced at five tracks a week. Just a thought from a really old race guy

Because Toyota threw a bitch fit in 2014 cause their engines couldn’t handle it

IMO if we are lookin at pure package base thinking... keep the 670 for the intermideates since the racing has been great. but bump it up for the short tracks. But for a fan or new fan seeing/hearing a car that is fast it all tracks should get a bump (besides superspeedways)

The engine today produce well over 900 hp, but are choked and neutered by that restrictor plate. The teams are pushing for that extra points of hp with that 670 template. So if anything, removing that plate will save money than not.

As an Indycar & F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I think the solution to NASCAR's horsepower problem is something that has been a feature in both F1 & Indycar for years (heck even NASCAR owned IMSA has it) & that is turbochargers. Simply adding turbos to the cars along with something similar to DRS or Push to Pass is much more cost effective than re-tuning the engines. In Indycar at least it has improved the racing especially on ovals because the cars have the power to pass each other. I would love to see a NASCAR stock car with the same amount of horsepower as an F1 car or an Indycar someday.

I cannot believe they said it is too costly for them to do so! They know and admit that their car is broken, as well as that it does not save teams money like they originally thought! Yet, for some reason, they avoid the easiest solution, and make things more complex than need be. 😑🙄 SMH

God that 4th gen scream was something else. As a 2007 Kid who never got to personally experience it, I seriously wish NASCAR would bring back what was good. It wasn’t broken, so I never understood why they tried to “make it better” but only ruined it. Continuing to add more safety is pointless. You could throw these cars at a brick wall at 200mph and the driver would survive. If they would just bring back that stock car feel the cars use to have, doesn’t have to be the old car, the sport could make a crazy comeback in American sports.

All the Nascar cup teams need to get togeather, and show up to a track with 800-900hp engines. EVERY SINGLE CUP TEAM. and they need to say "Either you let us run, or this race doen't happen, period, end of story."

I want the 2014 package to come back, that was one of my favorite years of watching NASCAR because the racing was so damn good and because my driver, Joey Logano was on the rise. But if they dont wanna go back to the 2014 package, just give more HP to the cars at the short tracks and road courses, go back to 720HP and a 2 inch spoiler at the short tracks and the road courses. Thats what i want

Definitely gen 4 motor to make a come back because that motor gave the cars a soul and brought the thunder

NASCAR diehard fans will constantly complain and complain and just keep complaining.... But we always watch every race, keep buying merchandise and giving NASCAR our money and time. If the core fans stand up and say enough and start boycotting and not giving them our money, they will be forced to do something

This is pretty spot on. NASCARs issue is they don’t wanna “go for it”. The racing isn’t awful but it’s not great either. Even small adjustments would go a long way to give them the data to see if more HP is the way to go. 30 more HP and no shifting to start would make next year a lot better IMO

I miss that sound so much!! That is the NASCAR I want back! And bring back 5 lug nuts!

Literally all they have to do is remove the restrictor plate they put on the engines in 2015. It isn’t rocket science and it won’t be more expensive. What difference does it make when Cup cars already cost 2-3 times more than they did in the Gen 4 era? Hell this goes all the way down the ladder in oval racing. Go watch a 410 sprint car race with 900+ horsepower engines and it is way better racing, way more impressive, and way more awe inspiring than a 450 horsepower 305 sprint car race. It’s a proven concept that goes back decades.

I think there’s points made for both sides of the argument here. For me, if we can get at least 700 hp everywhere we go, it’ll make a difference in on track performance. Do we really need the underwing/rear defuser at places like Darlington, Nashville, Martinsville, or North Wilkesboro? No we don’t. On the other hand, any decision has to make sense for both parties involved

I get Steve Phelps trying everything else out, like shifting, but I think they should just go with it at this point. 950HP should be where we're at. The only other thing I could think of is safety and slower speeds, but that's a pretty poor excuse considering how packed these cars are with safety features. Now that I think about it, what if they're afraid of domination by better drivers, since higher HP shows how good a driver is...

I think that there's some sort of clause in one of their sponsorships that prevents them from increasing horsepower cuz it's kind of strange that they won't even consider it. they look for every other option except for increasing horsepower

NASCAR needs to listen to the fans and add horsepower back to the cars to make them harder to drive to “reward” experienced drivers, like if they can save a car, etc.

The thing I’ve always said when it comes to talks of new OEMs coming into NASCAR, the big reason I believe why new OEMs don’t join, and it might trigger a bunch of people who read this and go “but muh V8!” But NASCAR has an old fashion engine style. Cast iron, pushrod V8s. Something that if OEMs wanted to run in NASCAR would have to put time and money into developing an engine that OEMs aren’t gonna use anywhere else and would take shutting down a racing program depending on what other motorsports they’re already in. Take Toyota for example, they shut down their IndyCar program to shift resources towards NASCAR. If I’m not mistaken Honda had said the same thing back when they first said they were interested back in like 2019 or so. OEMs would much rather race in a form of motorsports where they can race their signature engine that they built themselves. Whether it’d be an S4, V4, F6, V6, V8, V10, V12, gas/petrol, diesel, naturally aspirated, turbocharged, etc. It’s kind of a big reason why OEMs r looking more towards sports car racing since the LMH and LMDh regulations allow for an OEM to run a race specific or production based engine in a sports prototype that they can either build themselves or build off an existing LMP2 base chassis and have lots of freedom to design the car how they like and be able to race in IMSA or WEC racing in either Daytona or Le Mans. Porsche’s 963 runs the same 4.6L twin turbo V8 that ran in the old RS Spyder LMP2 car as well as the Porsche 918. BMW’s M Hybrid runs the same 4.0L twin turbo V8 that ran in BMW’s M4 DTM car. And the Ferrari 499P uses the same 3.0L twin turbo V6 run in the 296 GT3 car as well as the 296 road car. And before anyone thinks I don’t know what I’m talking about, Audi back in 1986 ran a closed course time around Talladega at the height of Audi being blamed for many safety allegations. Audi modified a Quattro 5000 CS with improved aero, safety, with a 2.2L turbocharged Inline 5 that produced 650hp. With Bobby Unser at the wheel, the Quattro was able to do an average of 332.853km/h (206.82mph) with a top speed of 350km/h (217.48mph) if I remember correctly I think it was good for around 8th place in the 1985 or 1986 Talladega 500. Technically the car was competitive with NASCAR, though if they were to build a car to NASCAR regulations, it would also mean throwing away the engine and drivetrain which is Audi’s pride and joy.

Hi horsepower low down force would be great maybe a mid range down force at suprspeedways but have 850 everywhere just changing the down force

NASCAR needs to wake up

If i ran Nascar i would set up a new ERS hybrid system to add a form of push to pass, and a spoiler designed for DRS (only on road courses, ovals get a fixed spoiler). 800 hp (plus ERS push to pass boost) on most tracks, but on super speedways there would be a smaller displacement rule for engines instead of using restrictor plates to make about 600 hp plus ERS push to pass boost.

I went to Charlotte for the first time in 2016 for the Bank of America 400. It wasn't a great race by any shot of the imagination, but as someone who hails from New Hampshire, it was wild to see those things unleashed for the first time. Loudon is great in its own right, but its a different experience and type of racing. I went again in 2021 to the Coke 600 and my LORD. The K&N pole time would have sat front row for the cup race. The race was awful and my favorite driver even won; the cars just snailed around the race track comparatively, it wasn't fun to watch. I very legitimately will not make the trip back to a fast track until they get this horsepower figured out. Its not worth the time and money.

In addition to more power, they should introduce sequential gearboxes with paddle shifters, and the option to have a smaller displacement engine with double overhead cams and four valves per cylinder. More engine variety always makes things more interesting, same as it used to in Formula 1.

That Gordon clip is forever the best. I knew it had to be one of the clips.

Phelps is full of shit. They can easily add another 100 to 120 HP without any significant increase to spending. Different camshafts, a larger restrictor plate, or no plate at all, could easily make those gains without needing to go deeper into the engine build. A different camshaft would be a ZERO raise in cost, because it would simply mean a different spec grind, and a larger restrictor plate is also a ZERO rise in cost. Even bumping up the compression would only require a different piston, which also comes down to a simple change in spec. None of these changes add to the cost, and anyone who builds engines will tell you that. They also need to get rid of the shifting at oval tracks. One last thing they need to try is a smaller spoiler. Whenever they test a smaller spoiler, they only go down by a small amount. They need to be more aggressive with the testing.

This is the equivalent of someone eating 800 calories in a day. Not because they want to lose weight, but because they are too lazy to spend 10 minutes cooking a meal that will give them closer to 2,000 calories for day. I said it before and I'll say it again, they are acting like politicians who have a bad policy and instead of saying they screwed up or just fixing it, they get married to that idea and don't want to admit fault. This really isn't a hard thing to fix though. That's what's really frustrating. We aren't asking for them to slap diesels in these cars and have 1500 hp

When you put the clips of cool sounding cars, you should have went back to the mid 90s.

I agree with Harvs take. If those cars blew the back tires off when you put your foot down it would force those guys to have to think about how and when they put the power down.

NASCAR's reluctance to add HP comes from the spending war problem within their business model. Even though adding HP ain't as expensive according to engine builders, it's an unnecessary expense in NASCAR's rules of business to stabilize whatever income that flows through the sport Cost cutting gets NASCAR nowhere because it's more of a survival mentality, especially if they're outdated business model is keeping inventory expensive like the 2000s. The sport's mindset has to change as much as the business model to get what we want, including our beloved horsepower

I want horsepower because the Next Gen car looks slow in TV. If horsepower is expensive, less horsepower is borring to whatch.

Steve Phelps is destroying NASCAR!!!

9:11 If NASCAR was somehow able to add this style of X pipe exhaust back to the cup cars I would be the happiest man on the planet

I don't think we learned enough from the Garage 56 car from Le Mans, the cars need to be lighter and less armored if we want to have racing at road courses, but at ovals we need more horsepower to increase the difficulty. I think they want to keep the pack racing at all costs and want to avoid breaking it up into smaller skill and circumstance made groups.

Get rid of the restrictor plate, that would be a good start! Then get rid of the Frances.

Dirt Late Models and 410 Sprint Cars have 700-900 HP, even more. Several hundred more than NASCAR. They might even be the most powerful closed-circuit race cars today.

They either need to add horsepower or use turbo hybrid systems of some sort

Phelps needs to go. He is not going to fix anything. Funny that more horsepower is expensive but travelling internationally wouldn't be.

More horsepower and less downforce, it will make the racing way more exciting, I play iracing and the gen 4/xfinity races are a blast, cup, not so much

It’s always funny to think that adding horsepower is one thing that NASCAR refuses to add. They keep finding ways around their problems with the Gen 7 car instead of owning up and tackling the issues head one. Just admit that you need to add more horsepower to compensate for the lack of racing on short tracks and road courses

I didn’t even know they used to be able to reach 200mph at Charlotte going into 1 and 3.

I want a small blade and 900 horses!!!!

Try adding the traditional June 400 mile event back at MIS.

Man those logano schemes where great and clips so satisfying I gotta say

It's not about racing anymore, the car owners and sponsors don't want to tear up their cars. It used to be about who's faster. I understand about safety, but, true racers have a need for speed. Now, with all the cars the same, it's about who can get away with what.

2:26 this is what NASCAR thinks the fans want. This is partially true, but the fans also want to see skilled drivers wheeling the car and getting things done without sending their fellow driver into the concession stand.

Drives me nuts how they say "its too expensive" They had the technology, parts,pieces, pistons, cams, rods, valvetrain 15+ years ago. Wouldn't take that much R&D because they already know how to do it!

Nascar once again trying to work around an issue rather than confronting the issue upfront.

OK so I have probably the craziest suggestion that NASCAR could do how about take a page out of the book of Cletus and cars and put nitrous in the cars but give them like one bottle for the whole weekend so you can use it during qualifying you could use it during practice whatever but when you’re out of nitrous you’re out that’s it and maybe even put a little yellow light like Cletus does that flashes when you’re on the nitrous, it would give the cars a little extra horsepower to be able to pass and it could make for exciting racing

Also why haven’t we heard anything about the hybrid system or new engine package? I think the engine builders are colluding to make sure NASCAR doesn’t change the engine formula. They’ve been using the same engine setup since 2012 when EFI was introduced. I think maybe a 3 litre twin turbo DOHC inline-6 with a 200 HP hybrid motor that runs the cars under caution and under 100 MPH. Plus the hybrid would also be the ERS system for a push to pass system that resets every lap on road and street courses. I guess the OEMs can’t make their own hybrid systems because the Next-Gen is so keen on spec parts.

It’s like watching an exhibition with show cars

Man I sure do love that the business man knows more about these cars than the people who actually drive them, work on them, and build them. I mean, What do they know?

I just have one question How is shifting a problem on road courses & short tracks

Cup engines should have at least 850 horsepower. The gear ratios need to be adjusted so that at the shorter, flater tracks they run in 4th gear. The stopping power of the brakes is too good. 1 last thing I would change, but NASCAR won't do it: get the cars off the ground. The ride heights are too low. I know what the point of the diffuser is, but there's a reason why the drivers want it off. Dirty air is a part of circuit car racing. But if you look at just racing from the gen 4 era, the air naturally passing under those cars allowed drivers to get to the back bumper of the car in front. Obviously, the trailing car has to be able to turn better or have a better run off the corner. More horsepower and driver ability plays a part in that as well.

I think they need to fix the gearing to keep the cars higher up in the rpms therefore they won't bog down at short tracks

Give the drivers MORE horsepower.Make the drivers DRIVE the car instead of just steering it. Make it interesting. Put a little Nitro-Methane in the tank. LOL

Its amazing how they can just keep saying its a money thing. The horsepower has gone down, the engine bills have not. The builders have literally said it would be easy to bump it up.

if they don’t want to add horsepower, they should really consider making the brakes less effective and/or grooved tires, at least for the short tracks and road courses. do something to make the grip harder to come by in braking zones.

Id like to see a different engine package for short tracks, but I am concerned that 1.5s will suck again

Wasn't it stated that the OEM were the ones who didn't want the 900 HP or thereabouts HP levels and there were reasons for it? I get the feeling the car makers are the ones who don't want to add HP as much as NASCAR, even though their cars, the street cars, have more HP in some cases

In my opinion I think it's kind of dumb that the drivers on the short tracks have to shift just to gain speed and slow down, I feel like shifting should only be at a road course or street circuit, cause at least shifting actually is supposed to happen

Watching high horsepower qualifying was so entertaining. You can just tell the cars are right on the edge of control

Like what was wrong with the 2014 package besides the amount of dirty air because of the 8 inch spoiler?

Where are these new manufacturers nascar keep talking about they attracting. No new manufacturers are interested. Give the drivers more power

The big Nascar teams want more horsepower. But I guess it would hurt the smaller teams. Because the smaller teams don't have the money. That bigger teams have. But I think that the NASCAR cup series race cars. Should have 800 Horsepower at all tracks.

If I was the president of NASCAR, I'd bring back the 2014 package that NASCAR had before HP was going down, and I'd eliminate shifting at all tracks except road courses. Honestly, Dale Jr should be the president of NASCAR instead of brainless Steve Phelps

Reasons why I love watching old races where they still have the horsepower

Gonna make a bit of a counterclaim, the xfinity cars still have less horsepower than cup cars. I think with the cup cars it’s more of an aero issue considering that you can pass with the 650 they have. I’ll be a bit honest about another thing, the truck series is the series that needs more horsepower the most, they’re barely going 160 on the intermediate tracks.

i think new engine technology needs to be opened up. modern cars are now running direct injection and some both DI and MPI, dual over head cams with VVT. make the engines produce 700hp NA and design a proper hybrid system, that adds maybe 100-150hp. most ovals would need a lot of strategy planning for the deployment but others would be great.

What always bothered me was that for decades nascar kept pushing the limit of how fast their cars can go and innovating to improve the racing product for the fans enjoyment. Now we are regressing and settling in to a safer less impressive product that tends to be boring. We pay to watch the best race car drivers handle monsters on some of the best tracks money can buy not some safe and boring racing that puts you to sleep. Nascar has to learn to push the envelop again.

It isn't so much about the HP, it's how NASCAR goes about achieving it. They mandate restrictors - tapered spacers. These reduce airflow thru the engine by choking the intake air. This reduces the volumetric efficiency, thus reducing HP. It is the least expensive way to do this, plus it allows them to change HP easily by changing the spacer diameter. The problem with this is that the engines are so choked off that if a driver has to lift, it takes a long time for the engine to regain the max RPM and they loose several positions in the process. The drivers have reduced this by downshifting that keeps the engine RPM up. But with everyone doing this, there really isn't any advantage to anyone. If NASCAR wants to reduce the HP, a better way would be to reduce the CID and eliminate any restrictors. The engines would respond quicker. Of course, as time goes on engine builders will try to get more HP, but that's the way racing's always been. I think that the NASCAR Le Mans Garage 56 car shows that there doesn't need to be any major changes to the design of the Gen 7 car to safely and reliably go back to 750-800 HP. I have been a fan, crewman and co-owner of several midget teams. I never ever talked to a driver that didn't want more HP available. As a reference; 1987 Bill Elliott, Daytona 500 qualifying 210.364 MPH and Talladega 212.809. Will probably never see that again.

I WANT MORE……….MOREEEEEEEEE 🐎💪

What about the years before? 900-950 HP. Jimmie Johnson even gave an interview to Top Gear UK about how much HP they were running then. Bring that back.

It’s not horsepower but rather how the downforce is produced. Something about the rear diffuser is causing a big problem on shorter tracks. I think it’s because the cars don’t go fast enough to make it effective.

Blame Toyota. They’re too lazy and stingy to create a reliable high-horsepower V8, so they whined to NASCAR to get their way, and got it so NASCAR wouldn’t lose Toyota like they lost Dodge.