Have the Buzz Feiten tuning system implemented so the entire guitar is tempered like a piano and it will blow your mind! It solves the very issue you describe and it doesn't change key to key. In fact, playing with a piano goes from what is typically embarrassing for the guitar player to being beautiful.

There will never be any perfect tuning for any instrument until they stop using Pi as their means of measure. If anyone made an instrument tuned to Phi that would be the true perfection.

The trouble is that many people don't recognize the classic stuff as sounding correct unless it's similarly out of tune in the same way! So while the guitar may be tuned differently to play more scientifically accurate, it won't sound like "The Guitar" that most everyone is already accustomed to.

Bravo. Both for the video and for the corrections you wrote here... That 12th root thing was bugging me. Still, you really opened my mind. I am not a guitar player, I am really bad, but I've got great "ear" and the thing with tuning for a chord vs. tuning by the rules has been driving me nuts for decades. Typically, for strumming chords in an inelegant fashion, I would always go for a tuning that fit G chord in a natural way. And that would always have the B string out of tune. Now I know why! Thanks! You made my day.

That's the point, he didn't gave much thought. A musician just hears.

Haha that's actually hilarious!

Always happens to me too! 😂

Always happens with me when I'm trying to play the keyboard haha

omg ikr i don't even notice it

@@anshdeo so do I! And it always feels odd and like something is missing to the sound I unconsciously expect... I'm just hoping I won't ever end up with one less piano key, trying to accomplish a bending on it

I had wondered if the anomaly mentioned in the video was perhaps a suggestion from Rick Rubin or one of the engineers.

Sounds like a really cool job dude! 👍😊

@@snakeson_aplane I don't think Paul is claiming that Frusciante did the math or checked the charts, or studied up on just intonation. He would probably agree with your comment. He is encouraging viewers to take the analytical route to get the same result, and that could be a mistake. Maybe his closing remarks should be more along the lines of: don't blindly follow your tuner. Do what sounds good.

You have the same name as my dad and younger brother. I can’t verify your story though.

@@johnbahler its open to one desires and experimentation. I think theory is great but its part of something bigger, you must use your taste too..

bruh he knew exactly what he was doing, you dont need to know jargin to use your fucking ears

I mean, considering how well-versed Frusciante is musically, how much he's listened and studied people like Zappa and Fripp, and having Julliard-level parents as musicians, he probably heard how it originally sounded, was like "that sounds too sharp and bright for what I want," lowered it a fraction and was like "much better." That's how most things musically are done, and then afterward a theorist or musician studying their work will be able to explain it. It's basically how all of classical and jazz theory and analysis work. You take what you hear and figure out the why afterward, see if that why explains other pieces of music, and then boom; you've got a new premise in music theory made that can be applied in new compositions.

"yea thats just um thats just what i was doing yea"

He definitely right i guess. Cuz i don't know why every guitar i played when i tuned the g string with the tuner it always sound like off pitch

John is a man of few words

Same!

I knowww!!!

Funny but that string always goes out a half a tone On My Guitar. It's anyone's guess if he intentionally did it.

what song is it??

@@owenlewthwaite5644 it's the song of your life

Adam Neely Hey Adam! Make videos about Frusciante. I know it is not your ‘thing’ but it would be awesome to watch him from you! Also, I’m sure you will find something great to talk about from his records.

He did your question and answer style Adam!

Adam, Paul, get a room already!

Hey, are you going to sue KZfaq and/or make a video response to Leonard French saying you should sue KZfaq for that copyright blocking stuff?

Adam Neely in a Paul Davids comment section? Today is a good day. And thank you to both of you for helping me understand tuning systems. I've learned that particular bit of theory entirely from youtubers like you guys!

legit same, always fiddling with it, it my most worn out tuning peg.

Yeah! And the argument is always louder after a spliff. My ears say no! That’s wrong! I’ll fix it, it sounds great, but up the neck is awful. Arrggh... I agree with Paul though - I tend to trust the tuner more when playing in a band. When playing solo at home I’d prefer the ears because I’m tuning to the acoustic guitar resonance itself and that sounds sweeter to me than digital. But damn bro, you’re not wrong about that B

Yes, exact same over here

Yo deadass.

wow... I've thought this was an intonation issue and always fiddling with the B-string cuz standard tuning always sounds off

I have been playing for 3years and I feel the same like you.

I've been playing for like 3 months and I still can't play guitar, lol.

I’ve been playing for about 14 years, don’t feel bad, I’m always learning something new. You never stop learning

Twenty years. Not a bloody clue.

@@theimmoralcookie6344 dw you'll get better. I felt the same way. I still can't play very well but I've only been playing for about 10 months

Don't obsess about it, because sounds are important but imo what emotions we try to express matter the most. It's better to be genuine and inperfect than perfect and sterile

@@biohazard8295 This is all true but some people have to understand things completely before they are able to apply said thing. I never understood music for years untill I realized this fact about the math. It never made sense something was off but when I finally understood what it was that was off I was able to ignore it. And use it.

I remember Steve Vai I think came out with a guitar that had frets bent and squiggly looking instead of straight across to capture the true intonation

It seems like there is no perfect tuning because there *is* no perfect tuning! It's mathematically impossible. Moving some of the fixed pitches around to move some intervals towards their just ratio will always push other intervals further away. The only "solution" is to keep adding more pitches to help you form just intervals with whatever your current root note is until you are satisfied with the number of "consonant keys" available to you. Instruments that do not have a fixed set of pitches, such as fretless instruments, certain wind/brass instruments, etc. (violin family, fretless bass or guitar, trombone, human voice, etc.) theoretically do not suffer from this problem, because they can constantly adjust the pitch of each note depending on the context. There are still issues that arise from this though. At the end of the day, compromises generally have to be made somewhere in most music. Besides, 12-TET is fine. It is great for genres like jazz too. Listen to piano music, it's not dissonant unless you're trying to find dissonance in it.

I noticed it too, when I play a specific song, thought my guitar had problems and then I realized that the same issue happened with another guitar 😅

Haha underrated comment

lol everything is copyrighted these days

The B note is owned by Barclays the C by Citigroup, and the D by DBS bank. Who in their turn, own the record companies. So all revenue for their usage forthwith, to go into their fat, greedy and non-creative pockets.

Sad but true :(

Pretty sure Warner Bros own B. ;)

Totally. That's exactly why I never had a tuner as a kid. If I ever tried one I just ended up retuning it after anyways

same. only 20 years for me though, so i guess i'm lucky lol

40 years here.

bruh i've been having problems with my B string for 15 years now I was not crazy

Ive been having the same problem for 72 years

Dude I heard it!! Sickkkk 😱

@@PaulDavids I heard that and Frusciante said and interesting thing. Something like he was listening to alot of blues record's at the time. I think it's weird he would decide to tune the guitar himself for a studio recording however maybe you can do a video on how blues musicians are not in tune.

@nick f Why aren't you going to show the chord to anybody? 😆

Apparently, it goes like this..

Holy shit is that a fucking hallelujah reference?!1

Sammie Bootle no

and that is going up on my facebook profile status rn lol LOL

also, no.4 beautiful stratocaster!!

@@rockyoursoul326 Legit ;)

Strong beard too.

@@andrewnicorn Definitely a strong one!

Perino Loenda Fiesta Red I believe

Jacob S probably why some players went fret less.

Envy San Diego 💯

Envy San Diego yeap

Eric Viethzer Alvez No shit Sherlock. I’m just excited he’s back. Nothing against Josh, but I personally didn’t like him as the guitarist that much. Watch them at the Grammys, you’ll see what I mean lol.

@@LittleTinyElvis All the best RHCP albums are with Frusciante.

Chrissan - well the 2nd and 3rd album with Hillel Slovak are pretty indispensable. Excellent, fun albums. Uplift Mofo and Freaky Styley.

Henry R you are severely misguided if you think this is quality content.

@@alextoli2486 I'd love to hear your argument explaining why this isn't quality content!

Henry R manufactured to be clickbait and I personally don’t find it appealing. Only reason I got here is because the algorithm is trying to jam it don’t my throat. Don’t get me wrong he’s not a bad guy or anything and I have no problem with him as a person but there’s channels like Signals music studio and Rick Beato. Those are the two juggernauts but there’s more like Let’s talk about math rock, trevor wong, adam neely, sideways, 8 bit music theory, 12 tone on a good day.

Henry R there’s so many musicians on youtube trying to offer something. I would never consider this to be quality content when there are channels like those ones who do hard research and don’t make 8 and a half minute videos on half baked ideas.

Henry R Nahre Sol and David Bruce Composer. Samurai guitarist

exactly the comment i wanted to make except without the stupid emoji faces, god damn it

@God cause it's written on the screen for a split second.

Too soon 😭

Too soon....

Good for you you want a doggie biscuit?

Sad reacts to this

Underrated comment

Maybe if you were John they would believe you 🤔🤔

In the past we didn't have tuners,all was by ears and we spent much times tuning ,nowdays is all by tuners,that's it.

The guitar wasn't "detuned", it was tuned properly. Each time someone changes the intonation of an instrument in purpose it becomes the new desired tuning. "Detuned" describes in essence when it happens without purpose or intention (like when a singer tries to sing a melody and isn't able to match the desired frequencies).

Hahaahhahahahaha

LMAO

So true. Ever tried to listen to the sound tracks only and not want to jump out of a window after 1 hot minute?

Real shit lmao

Best comment

i think that's more a problem with the guitar itself. b and g strings often tend to be awkward.

Yeah! I've always done this too! I always thought It was just the cheap guitar I'm playing! Good to know it's not 'wrong'.

Oh do tell us more about how you were the first to do this.....

I actually read a long time ago where James Taylor did that with his b string as well, and I’ve done it ever since, because well, he know a shitload more than I do. Lol. Glad to now know why as well!

@@Mr.M1STER I'm certainly not the 1st lol.

Steff nice 👍 that made me chuckle. Terrific hair for sure

And for beards maybe??

Yes definitely

Surly a 100 percent horse stud muffer, glorious.

Just visit your nearest hipster friend and u're all set...

saved some cents on the string makes lots of cents. look at all the cents i give!

The best thought

It's a music video. The instruments aren't even plugged in. This happens with all guitars

@@cambell9 way to miss the joke

@@KyuubiReign it's hard to tell because some millennials are that stupid

But why would showing Bach when talking about just intonation be bad?

@@xmvziron He didnt say it was bad I assume he likes it taight this way because its more relatable to a lot of electric guitar students?

So exactly this ^ Thank you! Also, this video is just a fresh take. Bach famously wrote a piece called "The Well Tempered Clavier", which was used to popularize an early version of the "just intonation" system described in this video. Bach wrote 24 short pieces, one for each of the 12 major and 12 minor keys. It would have been impossible to play this collection on most instruments of the time, as they would have been tuned to meantone temperament which, as Paul Davids masterfully explains in this video, would mean some pieces in some keys would sound beautifully in tune, and others would sound horribly out of tune. So, again as per Paul Davids video, The Well Tempered Clavier required the pianist to tune the piano so that each key was slightly out of tune, and that made it possible to play in all 24 keys. It's worth noting that in the canon of classical music, this practice of writing a collection of 24 pieces, one for each key, is actually EXTREMELY common. Chopin has a great set. Rachmaninoff as well. And many, many others. However Bach's collection was literally THE FIRST such work for piano, and it was literally designed as an attempt to popularize the more modern system of tuning, which the name "The Well Tempered Clavier" indicates. So, in addition to providing some context and history for anyone who might be interested, my point is this: Bach did it first, and the impact of The Well Tempered Clavier is impossible to understate. BUT BUT BUT...as a result, it seems like everyone who wants to make a video about this topic starts with BACH! As you can probably tell from this response, I've seen my fair share of Bach videos! Hence the motivation for my original comment: I love that Frusciante was used to illustrate a topic so many others try to illustrate with Bach :)

Lol, same. Not 30 years tho, about 5-6 years, but I thought I just don't have a balanced ear (lol) because B string always seemed a bit higher then right according to a tuner. Fuck tuners, ears all the way.

It's also gonna depend on the kind of music you play. In my experience, certain intervals will sound better tuned by ear, but at the cost of certain other intervals sounding much, much worse. I used to get by just fine by slightly adjusting the tuning between songs, depending on the key, but over time, I found it to be somewhat limiting. I tune by tuner nowadays, and it still never sounds exactly right, but it sounds only slightly off across the board, rather than perfect in some places and terrible in others.

I wonder if this is why I prefer the G chord where you add the D on the B string... because the voicing with the open B doesn't sound as good to me...

Yes well if your nut isn't cut properly i.e too high that can also be the reason as the first frets will sound too sharp.

same here.

Funny, the g string has always sounded out of tune to me.

@@iant419 same

B sounds terrible no matter if its in tune or not, 100% agree 😂

@@iant419 An ancap would have a bad opinion like that.

@@thetumans1394 g strings are for commies bro.

Though, common strobe tuners came around the late 60's ('67), LED tuners didn't hit stands until the 80s. ACDC's Highway to Hell is one of the more notoriously tuned rock-guitar albums (alot of A-Ab, and other songs are a half step down). The song "Strawberry Fields Forever" has a VERY interested tuning situation - 1st part recorded in A at a faster pace, 2nd part recorded in C at a slower pace. A-Section was sped up, and the C-section was slowed down to "match" each other. It adds character that we couldn't imagine without a bit of experimentation.

own approach to tuning... in tune or out of tune.

Well no. You can't play well out of tune unless you know how to tune in the first place.

Exactly. Frusciante is such a great guitarist he can make simple things like triads sound beautiful and can create a beautiful melody with a detuned string

@@thetrump9974 yeah man, as soon I I became good enough I started learning all of the stadium arcadium album. I know it's not a lot of people's fav but that album perfectly shows how good he is as well as shows how HIS melodies enhanced the entire bands music. Flea and frusciante are hands down the greatest bass and guitar combo of all time for me.

I always try to think outside the grain! :P

Plenty of guitarists adjust the B string actually and if you have been playing guitar for a while you would know the instrument is not a perfect designed instrument from an intonation point of view which is why I always tune by ear. One way to get around this issue, is by using True Temperament Frets: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nqmGlraa0r7LlJ8.html

He was hardly the first. Fretless instrument players have done this on the fly for ages, and many slide guitar players frequently do this as well. He’s still awesome though!

Classical trumpet players actually do this - Bb, C, D(Semi Rare), Eb(Semi Rare), G (rare), A (Vintage), and Piccolo. French horn is in F. I would guess that the main reason for some keys being much more common than others is in large part due to this.

hahahaha

actually, there was some of that going on in Slash's Guns & Roses recordings.... where some takes were just single chords custom tuned.

Kevin Shields does that

Better solution, play a slide in open tuning

You have a great cents of humour.

@@mikeshoults4155 I cents a note of sarcasm.

I'm hard

@@mikeshoults4155 that joke fell flat. See what I did there?

It made less cents

John Lennon always put his D string out of tune as a trademark, btw.

I've heard Eddie Van Halen did it too

John Frusciante actually said The Cure was a huge influence on the entire Californication album, especially the title track.

he's a junkie not a genius.

Yaraslau Batanau he was a junky over 20 fucking years ago... He is brilliant and that’s not an opinion. You might like him or not but you have to admit his guitar playing and knowledge of music theory is out of this world.

@@marvinnorstrom2636 Wtf does zappa have to do with anything? They arent fucking similar at all. Whether you hate him or love him frusciante def has enough respect from other genius muscians and music lovers to be on the genius list. Like i fucking hate tom Morello and think he is a one note hack that used weird effects to trick people into thinking hes anything more than average. But hey people still love him so does that mean just because i feel otherwise, everyone else is wrong?

@@marvinnorstrom2636 you would be surprised to know that frusciante actually worked with zappa before the rhcp

@Marv What would you say about composer Ben Johnston? If you haven't heard of him you should listen to his work. In my opinion some of it's seriously not listenable (atleast difficult to) and then there are really beautiful parts. Intelligent I would say but literally almost no one would say brillant. Many would say his compositions are out of tune. Got side tracked: honestly it just seems like brillant is a sliding scale like most other things. People "considered" Diogenes brillant but he pretty much was a freak that liked to troll other folks with his logic and shit/beat it in public, so yeah there's that...

However! If, for instance with Chopin's Piano Concertos, you have a piano performing with an orchestra or string section, the players still need to be in tune with the "fixed" tuning of the piano. Naturally, the fifths of the stringed instruments have to be tuned in accordance with either tuning system, or the result will be a pretty annoying experience for the players having to compensate. Could you point me towards a string concert performed in the old true temperament, because I'd be fascinated to hear it. I have only ever heard evenly tempered ones as of yet.

Bends and vibrato sometimes come in handy.

you can also get guitars with "True Temperament". Listen to Mattias IA Eklundh(hhhh) for showcase of such, with his signature Caparison.

OMG. Thanks to this comment I just realized how incredibly difficult it must be to play those type of instruments.

Maybe that's the reason, why John is playing solo on b-string with glass slide.

Good vid! I First read about temperament about a decade ago and was perplexed. Basically all chords and keys can't be "in tune" at the same time. Very interesting as the piano has same problems and it takes a skilled tuner as there are different tunings(compromises) based on the music.

Great explanation. Yeah, the major third is particularly 'out of tune' in equal temperament, but our modern ears are, to some extent, trained to hear it as ok. Historic mean-tone temperaments have beautifully pure major thirds, but are quite limited as to which keys work well. Viola da gambas (which are related to the guitar rather than the violin) have moveable frets so the performer can adjust to the temperament needed for a particular piece. I'm not sure if guitars with moveable frets exist, but they would be interesting to experiment with...

What you say is %100 accurate about the True temperment system and Just vs Equal temperment. Most guitar players don’t know this stuff and too many blindly rely on electronic tuners.

On a similar note do a video on why you can’t tune a guitar using harmonics.

@@2204JCM Just a couch strumming drummer here who also happens to love guitar (especially acoustic). I've made my biggest improvements on guitar thanks to a KZfaq genius with a channel called "Shut up and play". He has a ( simple ) tuning method that, I * think* may addresses this problem. Go into his channel and submit your email (no problems with b.s.) and you can download the short instructional video. PS, You never see his face and he wears all black so only his hands are showing. Without a doubt the best guitar tutor ( song by song ) on KZfaq.

... wait, really? F**k, no wonder that song sounds s**t when I play it. Thanks!

I have always dislike the sound of the B string, I guess this is why.

@@irnbruboy9442 Same here. And I tought my guitars were poorly adjusted.

Irn Bru Boy me too! Actually tuning by ear all intervals seem just a bit off but especially the b string for some reason.

To be fair straight frets cannot achieve perfect tune, and even very good guitars can have a few strings sound off when a chord is played open at the bottom of the neck but perfect when barred or even capoed further up and vice versa.

@@Fivizzz I have been detuning the B sting on my acoustic for years when I am playing mostly in G. I tune it back up when the root is in E. I always thought my neck or tonation was a bit off, never knew it was a natural event.

same!

Dude just use your tuner!probably you are playing something wrong!