...What... the... actual... fuck... "Humanity showed being Human" and "Humanity decided not to destroy it!" ... ...What? ...What nonsense is he talking about? He's literally making this in-fact-wrong stuff up as he goes, is he? What a weird, laughable scene. Did the Writers literally fell asleep writing this talking?!?

are you telling me you gained almost 30k subs in a year and a half

Do you watch jacksucksatlife

What happens is the creature lives and Clara is forced to re-evaluate her relationship to The Doctor.

The consequenz would be to have no moon with the wrong desicion lol

Exactly

If I may: You're partly right, there are no negative consequences to her actions (as far as we can see, maybe the creature's massive site caused sine tidal waves as it flew away, that we just weren't told). But, the basic descision boiled down to: 1. Kill the creature with the nukes. Its carcas will remain and draw the casing of the moon ton it through gravity, essentially the moon would stay the same as it was then. Reminder, at the time the moon had increased in size which caused numerous problems and disasters across the world. 2. Don't kill the creature and let it hatch. They didn't know what the hatching might do, if parts of the crust would be hurled onto the earth as meteorites and even then if those would burn up or hit the ground, if the moon would be gone for good or if somehow a new one would come. Clara's desciosn to not kill it risked many if not all of human lives. Yes, she got lucky and her decison had no negative consequences. But that's the point, she risked it to do something good, that's what the Doctor wanted to teach nit just her but humanity. If his methods were correct is another matter but the consequences weren't what mattered but only the prospect of them in regards to moraluty.

I'm with Lil - this is a decision that has character relationship consequences rather than setting ones.

It would've been better if there had been *some* consequences. Even if it had just been that the new moon would take a while to grow and until then things would be a bit harder on Earth, or something.

...What... the... actual... fuck... "Humanity showed being Human" and "Humanity decided not to destroy it!" ... ...What? ...What nonsense is he talking about? He's literally making this in-fact-wrong stuff up as he goes, is he? What a weird, laughable scene. Did the Writers literally fell asleep writing this talking?!?

@@slevinchannel7589 what?

Well saxon yes... but the events happened in reverse for the doctor so he couldn't have known how to stop it earlier For torchwood.. well he was constantly telling them to shut down the portal and get rid of all the alien weapons. The doctor even demonstrated what would happen if the continued. But they did not listen. (I'm referring to army of ghost if that torchwood is the one u are referring to)

@@Gundam_JAY What What?

@@Gundam_JAY Which What? When What?

Lorlok Doctor: because dying is my species word for man flu!

But regenerating is still like dying for the doctor because all of his mannerisms are changed

The Doctor is also ten times smarter than most enemies he encounters and much better positioned to come up with an ingenious last minute solution to save all their butts. I always figured half the point of Torchwood was to show how horrible life (and death) is in the Whoniverse when the Doctor isn't around to deal with the threat of the week.

Love your profile pic!

so it's "aborted" but it's also birthed?

The eggcecution. ...sorry

Ima If you can look past Adolf... no, I’m not going there.

I can accept that the moon is an egg, Doctor Who is filled with hammy sci fi stuff, its the way that the moral dilemma was handled that made me hate it.

Whats the problem with the moon being a egg? It was forshadowed hardcore

It's still a question: Does this unknown form of (potentially highly intelligent) alien life deserve to live any more or less than humanity? Obviously as humans we're biased in favour of humanity, but there's a genuine moral question there. Especially since humanity may well have been able to survive with no moon.

@@irrevenant8724 Except it would not, the no moon means no tides which would cause much more devastation than you think and not just to humans, not to mention the debris falling from the moon(which again, they copped out), letting it live would be the same as literally sacrificing untold life on Earth (and potentially other planets since they don't know what the giant thing is capable of, but it's big enough that it could cause untold destruction without even meaning to). That's not a reasonable dilemma. Weighing one giant creature against your entire species, planet and every other living thing on it, or even other planets, is not at all an equal question.

@@mismismism Yeah, I would've liked to have seen more fallout from the moon's destruction. Even if it were promptly replaced by a new moon, there should be significant meteor strikes on Earth, tidal issues etc. If thousands or millions of people on Earth had died it would've been a stronger ending IMO where both Clara and the audience are left wondering if preserving this unique and wondrous creature was worth the cost...

@@irrevenant8724 I agree, at least something. I personally still think it's a weird dilemma to play up but if there had been consequences at least it would have been a satisfying episode overall.

@@mismismism ok, so for lack of tides: this honestly might not have killed that many. It is pointed out that the rise in gravity led to massive floods thus making it likely that alot of shore inhabitants and tech is already killes/destroyed. Not sure about effects right out of my head but deaths shouldnt be that many. For the egg shells, ye that was just purely gamble that somehow went in their favour. For the letting it live, this is a bad argument. With this you could satisfy genocide on any sapient species you come across

I'm really liking this series on my rewatch after thinking it was bad before. I think it helps to know that capaldi is going to be better every season

also the visible side were all western countries... really makes you think huh

It was an insult to viewers intellect. Maybe you just had not enough to notice?

@@slevinchannel7589 Was the premise the smartest thing ever? No. Was it thrilling and provocative while it lasted and made one confront one's preconceptions during and after? Yes. You don't have to like it, it's by no mean my fave, but you don't have to be a dickbag about it. Your intellect was insulted? Very sad for it i guess. My imagination wasn't.

@@slevinchannel7589 Kill the Moon was the complete opposite of an insult to the viewers intelligence. It didn't spoon-feed us which is actually very respectful. Of course idiots who think they're smart wouldn't recognise when a movie or TV series is treating them with respect. This is the same reaction as the retards who whined about the Star Wars Prequels despite them emphasising how smart children are.

@@slevinchannel7589 No need to be insulting, but I believe that KTM was a HUGE dissapointment. I rewatched S8 recently and tbh, a lot of the EARLIER episodes weren't bad. Each were between a 6-8/10 for me, with Listen being a 9. Kill The Moon could've been a great story but they tried too hard to fit all these different concepts into one episode, and in my opinion it really did end up shit. Lots of good potential, pish outcome.

I think it's reasonable to expect some degree of realism in SF that is trying to be fairly scientific. In Doctor Who notsomuch...

Series 8 is great! I hadn't rewatched Kill the Moon until I was making this video, and I really didn't get all the hate for it. Let me know what you think of it when you rewatch!

@@HarboWholmes Will do! :D

@@HarboWholmes Just watched it and oh my! It's not bad at all :D I actually really enjoyed it and the egg thing doesn't bother me as much as it used to :) I do still find Courtney a tad annoying tho xD

I'm glad to hear that! It's definitely an episode that deserves a second chance because it's gained such a bad reputation that people avoid it like the plague now.

@@HarboWholmes For sure! I'm glad I went and watched it again (which would have happened eventually) but this time with an open mind :D

You know this is the show with the TARDIS in it, right?

He's just straight wrong here, simple as that.

The episode explicitly points out that the moon has gained mass - that's why the gravity isn't lighter for them. I think you probably *could* make the idea of the moon being an egg work. I think just mentioning that it's a mineral-based life form would achieve most of it. And make the spiders weird mineral creatures instead.

@@irrevenant8724 you could also just have it that there's an egg on it big enough to ocupy most of it, and have it so dealing with it is impossible without also tackling the moon in the process

Cybermen aren't too unreasonable science-wise. The TARDIS on the other hand...

@@irrevenant8724 its timelord technology not human technology

@@wyattbarnett3877 Sure. My point was that Time Lord technology is a good example of the upper limits of what's possible with technology in the Whoniverse (though some races' technology exceeds even the Time Lords).

Eh, this is the same SF setting with the TARDIS in it. Pulling mass from nowhere is the least of things possible in this setting...

@@irrevenant8724 but the tardis is a machine built by a civilization capable of such feats through technology, I doubt through evolution alone a species could lay space time bending eggs.

@@x.p.3574 Biology can theoretically do pretty much anything technology can, and the TARDIS is a good indicator of what's possible within the physics of the setting. But if you prefer biological examples specifically there's the Weeping Angels and the P'ting.

it definitely oversimplifies the abortion debate and only presents the “pro-life” side of it. it also has a situation which is actually not that similar to someone getting an abortion. one of the primary pro-choice arguments is bodily autonomy, and the moon isn’t part of the earth’s body. the way they show it, not even a pro-choice person would “kill the moon,” it would be like making the decision to abort a fetus for someone else. it is a really frustrating episode because the agenda they’re trying to push doesn’t even apply to the circumstances of the episode.

agreed

This strikes me as being more about xenophobia rather than abortion. Abortion also isn't a particularly contentious issue in the UK and I'm not sure why they'd bother doing an episode about it. I can see arguments either way on Clara. When the majority votes for something that you know to be wrong and it's on your power to stop it do you, or don't you? It certainly speaks to a strong moral character, but that's also the headstrongness that was her undoing later.

@@jokelao.o9960 It has a situation that is not particularly similar to abortion. Which is why I wonder why people keep interpreting it as one. Especially given that abortion isn't a particularly contentious issue in the UK so I don't know why they'd do an episode about it.

Thats not true for the doctor who universe. The earth had no moon till the egg came and this event made those lizard ppl move underground

Devi To be honest that sounds even worse than what we got.

@@paulbeardsley4095 How so? Not to dismiss you, I'm genuinely interested in what you think would have been a better direction to take it. The biggest complaint I saw people making was that if the moon got destroyed there would be apocalyptic events (affecting flooding/tsunamis and the earth's rotation) but in the episode itself there were none. There were already hints to the fact that the moon was suspicious in earlier episodes so it could have been built up a fair amount. Maybe a universe-level threat was going a bit too far, but an earth-level threat could have been fun to watch. Potential for decent tension.

@@TinPrince Well, my feeling is that the idea resulted in only one truly abysmal episode instead of more than one, although I was disappointed that it got referred to in a later season, making it that little bit harder to pretend it hadn't happened. A threat coming from beneath the surface of the Moon - perhaps via a wormhole generator placed there by an ancient race - might have been interesting. That could even result in the Moon's mass increasing, perhaps just enough to make suspicious (but not necessarily catastrophic) changes in the tide. Basically, anything other than the Moon being an egg.

I totally agree with this, a situation as huge as this could've been much more interesting if it was treated with the weight it deserved. I love the idea of the creature being something more powerful - what if it was a more abstract creature? A reality-bending entity or eldritch horror could have been less easy to ridicule than a space dragon. What if Clara's attempt to stop the detonation is unsuccessful and the destruction of the creature just doesn't work? It could have been an interesting spin on the world-level-threat if they tried and failed to destroy it (humanity's decision carried out) and the creature only chooses not to be a threat, maybe as a benevolent being. What if a new moon is left, which the Doctor could identify not as an egg but as a monument to the wrong decision that earth had made, or even a warning? I'm not sure this would have been any better, but the moral dilemma of the situation could have been much more interesting.

Yup. Suspension of disbelief is relative. *But* each show establishes its own borders for suspension of disbelief and people come to know what to expect from it. "Kill the Moon" annoys some people because the science is shonky *even for Doctor Who.* Given that this is a series that turned the Doctor into space Jesus using psychic satellites, that's impressive. xD (To be fair, people hated that too...)

That was a space whale. I suspect they're unrelated species, though both large and spacefaring.

You're not late at all! Thank you :)

@@HarboWholmes Ah thanks lad 👍

And they chose the 'abort' option. Sooooo, it's a pro-abortion story then, by that logic? I'm with Harbo on this one: It's not a pro-life argument, it's an anti-xenophobia argument about how the unknown can seem dangerous and frightening but if you give it a chance it can turn out to be beautiful and wondrous and harmless.

@@irrevenant8724 I mean, I think what you said about the unknown is a pro-life argument. But you don’t have to agree with me! My logic was actually that using the word “abort” in an episode about deciding whether to end the life of something unborn brings up the abortion argument. And deciding that there is no acceptable reason to end its life is therefore taking the side of pro life people.

This insult to people's intellect was your favorite? Wow, that says a lot about you, doesnt it?

@@slevinchannel7589 I think it says more alot about that you judge someone's worth by there pop culture opinions

SoundsOfMars 2005 No, it’s really not.

@@paulbeardsley4095 Yes, it really is.

@@timrosswood4259 You don't have much imagination, do you?

@@paulbeardsley4095 I don't have imagination because i have an opinion that is different to your's? It seems that YOU don't have an imagination. You are an idiot, aren't you.

@@timrosswood4259 No, it's your persistence in arguing that something pretty lame is a great idea that marks you as unimaginative. Nothing to do with opinion. And nothing to do with me being an idiot, although I'm not claiming I'm not one.

I don't think the child acting is as bad as people seem to think. We've certainly had a lot worse (In the Forest of the Night for example.) The writing being boring is personal preference, I personally found that it was written pretty well. The full landscape is the most realistic part of the episode, the moon really is just dull to look at. And as I said in the video, it's got nothing to do with abortions, at least not intentionally. It's only referencing abortion if you want to read it that way

The teeth thing was exactly my point. It can't be a single celled organism in any shape or form. The single celled organism I was referring to is actually Caulerpa Taxifolia. It's an algae that is commonly used in aquariums, but it's one of the most invasive species in the world. There is a lot more to it than just perspective, true, but the general point still stands! If there's ever an episode I can't defend, I probably won't make a video about it haha! But I will admit this is one that was harder to defend than usual!

Eh, I think it's perfectly fine to scrutinise Doctor Who, over the years it has set a bit of a high bar for itself haha! But I just like to try standing up for some of the episodes that really don't deserve that hate, although I always understand why these episodes end up with that negative reputation

ByCoolPumpkin The time travel is part of the “what if” aspect. That doesn’t mean the stories don’t need to make sense.

well yes they are 'killing' an organisms that was never born

Well, The Terminator had an anti-abortion message as well as having technophobic message.

This was the episode that, for me, firmly solidified that Peter Capaldi was not the Doctor. It wasn't until well into Season 9 that he managed to convince me otherwise, specifically with his anti-war speech to Bonnie in The Zygon Inversion. However, that was 21 episodes after he joined the show, 22 if you count his "attack eyebrows" in Day of the Doctor. I wouldn't have made it far enough into Capaldi's era to consider him a legitimate Doctor if he and Steven Moffat hadn't been able to convince Jenna Coleman to stay for one more season. Without Clara, the Doctor would have died with Matt Smith in my mind because I felt like the soul of Doctor Who had passed into the Impossible Girl. People really don't give her the appreciation she deserves for carrying such a huge chunk of Capaldi's era. Despite Capaldi, Kill the Moon is one of my favourite parts of Season 7 simply because of the ending. Clara was right to call him out and I wouldn't have minded if she had actually slapped him into his next regeneration. The asshole would have fucking deserved it because this isn't an isolated incident. He's been forcing Clara to do all the legwork in their relationship ever since he regenerated and even mocked the fact that she could die whilst he could regenerate at the beginning of this very episode. Another, less appreciated part of the final act is Clara's scene with Danny. He showed what an alpha he was by allowing her to vent without judging her and, despite having a perfect opportunity to tell her to stay away from the Doctor, warning Clara not to make any rash decisions that could break her relationship with him for good. There's a man who truly loves his woman because he gave her support and a good piece of advice but left the actual decision completely up to her. No wonder Clara chose him over the Doctor in Dark Water. Also were people really complaining about the pro-life abortion stance? If so, that says more about them than about the episode. And the inaccurate science thing is just outright petty because this is Doctor Who. The science in the show has been insane for the better part of 5 decades.

1thyph477 Exactly.

1. The point of the 12th Doctor's whole story in Series 8 is that his morals become ambiguous and that it will take him time to remind himself what it means to be The Doctor. 2. The Space Dragon might have wings but doesn't necessarily mean it uses them. Like Ostriches. 3. Given that the egg shell was less dense than rock, it could be possible that the force of being broken would shatter the smaller pieces. 4. Bigger pieces could fall down to Earth, but would probably start burning up on entry, like meteorites. 5. Does it matter where it went? Off into space. 6. If the moon/egg is like a womb for the dragon, then it would get heavier as the dragon grows, same way people get heavier as their pregnancy progresses. 7. They want to nuke the moon in case the moon hatching or the thing inside did actually pose a threat to Earth (they did establish this in the episode). 8. Courtney is in the TARDIS when she posts to Tumblr, the TARDIS is a high-tech space time machine, assume it is capable of Wi-Fi. 9. The spiders are supposed to be bacterial germs, some of which can survive in space. The cleaning spray is supposed to kill 99% of germs. Luckily those spiders were in that 99%. I'm not trying to be rude here, just want to offer some solutions. Like Harbo says, don't let some dodgy science affect what is otherwise a decent episode.

@@alfiethomas5632 1. That doesn't excuse bad storytelling. 2. Yet it somehow flies anyway. 3. The egg shell WAS rock. That was the point. 4. Do you know what "meteorite" means? Have you ever seen the Arizona meteorite crater? Have you ever heard of Tunguska? Do you know why there aren't any dinosaurs around these days? 5. Yes, it matters. We're talking about a creature of roughly planetary mass moving around. Good science fiction considers consequences; bad science fiction ignores them. 6. People get heavier when they are pregnant because they eat more. Mass doesn't just magically increase. Have you ever seen the Moon eat? 7. Okay, never mind that they could never have got them there on space shuttles and they wouldn't have made any difference. 8. No problem with this one. 9. Rubbish. Dodgy? If dodgy means a used car salesman, this is a war criminal, and the episode is nowhere near decent.

​@@alfiethomas5632 1. Ok, true. I didn't like the way this was written but that's a matter of taste. 2. Maybe, but ostriches have wings because they are descended from flying birds. What about the space dragon? 4. Some pieces, yes. But it's the moon. Some of the bigger pieces would be at least as big as the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. 5. It wouldn't matter if the space dragon was just a regular monster of the week. But it's not. It's one of the more unusual creatures on a show that's full of unusual creatures. And it's not some random alien moon, it's THE MOON OF PLANET EARTH. This thing was somewhere in the background of almost every episode of Doctor Who, and several episodes took place up there. So this revelation is BIG. And this is what annoys me so much about this episode. This is supposed to be one of the key moments in human history. An Event that changes everything. But the episode feels like the writers didn't even try. They don't explain anything, and the events of this episode have no impact on anything. The space dragon hatches, lays a new egg (that's bigger than the dragon itself), disappears without a trace, everything goes back to normal. And then nobody ever talks about it again. Not even Adelaide Brooke, the first female Briton on the moon who met the Doctor only a few years later. Even weirder, in an earlier episode the Doctor said that every human from then until the end of time will at some point watch the video of the first moon landing. But somehow the fact that they landed on an EGG seems to be completely forgotten by everyone. Also, how does a creature this big disappear so fast? 6. Yes, but eggs don't work like that. Eggs get lighter before they hatch. If it was a womb there should be a mother somewhere. Now that I think about it, maybe this could be a way to fix this episode. The story could go something like this: An unimaginally huge alien creature appears in the solar system. Its mass causes earthquakes and floods and stuff, and everyone thinks it wants to destroy the earth. So they plan to nuke the creature but then they realize it doesn't want to attack us. The moon is an egg and the alien creature is its mother who has come back to collect her baby. And the new moon at the end would be a new egg by the same mother. 7. When they landed on the moon they didn't know that the moon is an egg. They just knew that the moon was getting heavier. Nuking it wouldn't solve that problem. 8. Makes sense. I didn't think of that. 9. Ok, I guess this is sciency enough for Doctor Who. If you liked the episode that's cool. Don't let me ruin the fun for you. But I still don't like this episode.

Isn't that true of pretty much every story though? Very few Doctor Who stories could be considered essential viewing. And like Harbo points out, this episode does important setup for the rest of the season.

@The Reverse "I don't agree that the moral dilemma is naff." It's more the handling of it, but even so, it's a dilemma about a problem that could never arise. We know the Moon is not an egg with much the same certainty that we know Switzerland is not made entirely of blancmange. But even ignoring that. getting the whole (half) Earth to vote, only to ignore the vote, and then the big threat doesn't arise after all - that is bad storytelling. "Nor do I agree that it isn't an interesting story." I'm guessing you have zero interest in actual lunar exploration. This is the equivalent of the Doctor visiting Henry VIII in his latter years in a story written by a writer who DOESN'T KNOW that Henry had 6 wives and that there were major issues involving succession and the Roman Catholic church. "Nor is this even the worst episode of Doctor Who of the season." Personally I don't think it's better than Stupid Forest Story but YMMV. "It sounds like The Expanse is more your speed." It's on my watch/read list, but it's an entirely different beast. "Complaining about the scientific accuracy of Doctor Who is a little strange." If you think that's what I'm doing you have missed the point, which is a shame because I put some effort into making it clear that that is not what I'm doing. I've been watching Doctor Who for nearly 50 years. I even wrote one of the spinoff novels that came out during the Wilderness Years. I get that there is a balance between taking liberties and being insulting. Peter Harness came down solidly on the insulting side.

@The Reverse "Science fiction is filled with dilemmas such as those." No it's not. The dilemmas arise from "what if?" not from "we know it's not". A famous example being Harlan Ellison's classic Star Trek story, City On The Edge of Forever. We know time travel is (probably) not possible but it's a good "what if?" and the dilemma - do you save a good woman or let her die to prevent a nuclear holocaust? - arises logically from it. "Even in the real world, philosophy students study the Trolley Problem, even though it is extremely unlikely one will find themselves in such a situation." I'm glad you mentioned the Trolley Problem. I agree it's extremely unlikely to arise in real life (although I've got a feeling there was an occasion when it did, not that it matters either way) but the point is, the Trolley Problem is relateable, and again it arises logically from the situation. People do work on railways, trolleys can get out of control, and decisions can be modelled as lever pulling. But the Moon Egg Problem flies in the face of logic at every turn. WE KNOW the Moon isn't an egg; even if it was an egg that wouldn't cause its mass to increase (and so it would be no threat to Earth); even if its mass DID increase it wouldn't be possible to get to the Moon on a space shuttle, and a bunch of nuclear bombs wouldn't make any difference. This is not good science fiction. Back to the Trolley Problem. If she pulls the lever, a baby will be killed by the runaway trolley, but if she doesn't, a billion people will be run over by the trolley. The billion people beg her to pull the lever. She refuses to pull the lever, and FOR NO APPARENT REASON, nobody dies anyway. How can you not see this? "Nah---pretty sure that the details of what's on the moon are a little less well known than Henry VIII." You've kind of confirmed what I said about you having zero interest in actual lunar exploration. We know a LOT about the Moon. Sure, there's a lot we don't know too, but our understanding is a hell of a lot more interesting than some bollocks about hatching dragons. I think to you science is something esoteric, that has no bearing on real life, and "science fiction" means "anything goes". Well, there's a reason why the science fiction genre is interesting and dream accounts generally aren't.

@The Reverse "This conversation started to lose its productivity the moment you implied that I don't think science is important or whatever." Honestly, it's not a jibe, it's how you're coming across. Strongly. Maybe that's not what you intended. "Also, the City on the Edge of Forever is hokey, unconvincing, and overrated as hell--like pretty much all of The Original Series ;)." I have no problem with that opinion. I'm not a Star Trek fan. But my point is, the dilemma is a natural result of the "what if?" of time travel. There are any number of similar dilemmas in science fiction, all of them arising naturally from an imaginary situation. It's the sheer unnaturalness of the unfolding story in Kill The Moon that makes it so offensive.

The Reverse I’m not trying to have the last word, I’d actually like to have a proper conversation. I get that you think I’m being condescending and that annoys you. At the same time I get the feeling that you’re ignoring my main points and that annoys me, but maybe I’m wrong about that. I’ve tried to be clear and I’ve supported my points with examples. Thing is, just because something is fantasy doesn’t mean you can stop making sense. You can make up an imaginary country called Xarth and say its capital is Wobbel, and that’s fine. But if it’s set on Earth, you can’t make Paris the capital of Italy, not even if the story features vampires.

@The Reverse First off, thank you for trying. I don't know enough about Vesuvius to judge, even though I have been to Pompei and have read Robert Harris's excellent novel of the same same. But I am not the person to defend RTD's work. In my view, he wrote soap opera. He wrote it well, and that's the reason he didn't merely bring Doctor Who back, he made it stay back. But the fantasy aspect was sugar coating. When he tried to do full-on science fiction it was generally comic book at best. I know a lot of people were impressed with Waters of Mars because of the ending, but I thought it was pretty poor "I can't begrudge Peter Harness for writing a moral dilemma/monster story instead." That's not the problem. As I've said a few times now, it's the fact that the moral dilemma did not arise logically from the scenario. That, and his sheer ignorance of the topic. I've mentioned already that I am a writer. I have never written a political thriller, though. Why not? Because I don't know enough about politics, and I don't know enough about the genre. If I wrote a political thriller, people would be saying, "Good grief, he hasn't got a clue. He doesn't even know the difference between an American senator and a British prince!" Quite honestly, I don't think any other qualities would make that forgivable.

To be fair to the TARDIS it is not bigger on the inside - there's just more of it in another dimension than the part intersecting regular space.

@@lucasbachmann Don't get me wrong, I love the show and all of its absurdity mainly because it usually doesn't try to technobabble anything away and instead goes for the wibbly-wobbly "explanation" but scientifically speaking, what you've pointed out is not much better :D

I mean I hate it for how it handled the moral dilemma

Kolemjdoucí Introducing fantasy elements doesn’t mean storytelling logic can go out the window.

@@paulbeardsley4095 Exactly! People confuse that all of the time. That's why they don't get Kill the Moon

To be fair to Clara, I couldn't see Peter Capaldi as the Doctor either. He was just a sociopathic shitbag who called himself the Doctor until Series 9. It was like watching the Valeyard, complete with gaslighting and projection. Sure, he's technically part of the Doctor but the core of the character was gone, so I completely relate to Clara losing faith in him. Despite being a lifelong fan, Capaldi didn't bring the Doctor's core character back until Season 9 or, if I'm being very generous, the last 2 episodes of Season 8. He's simply not as good an actor as the fanbase says he is. John Hurt and Matt Smith, who ironically weren't fans when they were cast, captured that Doctor's core character easily within their first, and in Hurt's case only, full episode. Hurt didn't even call himself the Doctor until the very end of his incarnation's life but he was better in Day of the Doctor alone than Capaldi was in his entire first series.

Colin Guyan Agreed, except it’s only the label on the bottle that looks nice. It promises a fine wine but frankly vinegar would have been better than what we got.