I wish you had shown a comparison in size between different types. How physically large does it have to be in order to equate to a tesla powerwall for example.

I would love to see a deployment cost for either a Peaker plant or a shuttered nuclear facility like San Onofre in California, with the grid infrastructure in place these would appear be a perfect cost comparison to see real value. Also, time to deploy if it takes 10 years then that would be a very negative factor.

The technology for the specific application. Is awesome.! But the thing is. Batteries that can't be recharged. Or reused. Like the double AA batteries I have in my TV remote. On an industrial scale. Could be useful in a few applications for sure. But the problem with that business model Is that it's to conducive to becoming the status quo. As you can see they did with low voltage batteries. AA, AAA etc. And that's not what anyone who uses energy wants for the energy industry. Except for the very few people at the top of energy industries. Who stand to make all the money.! So I canot in good conscience be complicit with an energy technology with so many potential drawbacks. Which might be hard to see when it gets so cheap And ubiquitous. But that's the insidious problem. That's how they get ya.! Especially for industrial applications.! WE SHOULD ONLY BE STRIVING FOR.! #1. Completely Rechargeable. #2. A 100-year cycle life minimum. #3. Minimal Maintenance. #4. Non-Toxic for service life. #5. Completely and easily Repairable.! These are requirements of a battery that is used a lot. And if the battery is being used a lot. That means there's a lot of energy being moved around. And that is where they stand to make money. Not from Batteries. But from the Transfer of Energy.! Like they don't get it. Batteries are their problem.! Not ours.! They should want to make them as efficient as possible. Because they're the ones who should want us to use them. Because they stand to gain the most. Sure the more inefficient battery the better for them. But that's not really looking at the big picture. You want your battery to become ubiquitous. So everyone uses it. And then Charge them for the service.! While your battery meets some of these requirements. And kind of meet some others. That's woefully short of meeting all the aforementioned correctly. Valve in the steam deck are a perfect example. They lose money on the steam deck. To get you into their ecosystem. Which they make far more money from. Then they ever could from the from the Steam Deck alone at any price.! So disposable only energy technology while having some application. Are mostly backward moving. Relics technology. Which really doesn't have any place in the future. And it's something to be evolving past.! It's not for the consumer or industrial market applications. I can only imagine it be used in like going to Mars or the moon. Subterranean or aquatic conditions. You know pretty niche applications. Now molten salt batteries and liquid metal batteries. Those are on the right track. Well they're a lot closer anyway. Maybe focus on those. If you are still- "Undecided.!"

When the battery reaches its end of life, can you just flush the fluids and replenish the same tanks and system without replacing all of the hardware? If so, that's a big step toward longevity. That would actually make it a worthy investment for homeowners, should it ever be scaled toward home power storage applications.

So what happens for long term power storage? @11:04

They are currently building instalations in the country (queens land)

@@luisfernandosantosmora1000 Queensland.

Wat disposal prob? It's called.recyclye

@@jayrabideau7019 it doesn't have anything that needs recycling.

No u said end of life disposal issue wat issues? Redwood materials 96% recycle rate something close to that

i want

Thank you for the calculations! 💕

Yep, and all that will probably be necessary for maintenance is to top them up with distilled water every now and then, especially with that high cycle life that will only get better as the tech improves.

Please pin this! This math was super helpful for helping me understand the competitiveness of this battery! I would happily install an extra fridge sized unit in my house that can run everything my house needs, and then some!

For many homes, yes. But for multi family housing space is often at a premium, so possibly not always. Also it’s common to quote cell-level energy densities when talking about batteries which are significantly more optimistic than real world battery pack-level densities. That may be the case here for the 125 kWh/liter figure - it may not include all the required components for a real world installation.

Great coverage indeed. ESS is very promising. I'd buy one.

US centric view points to global problems. There's a new perspective.

Energy storage to cost ratio would likely be effective, if the density is too low to be cost effective that would show, although that does simplify many factors into a single number which may be confusing or hide other pros/cons not covered by the ratio.

do you know what's the best and most safe energy storage medium with absolutely the lowest storage losses AND it's powered pure solar energy? It's DIESEL. product of 4 billion years of evolution and the best energy storage medium based on solar energy and it's fully recyclable without any waste or pollution - if you love life on earth support carbohydrates and CO2

I feel like he brings up the energy density concern with every battery video just to say "no, this won't be replacing your phone and/or car battery"

You can deliver them with just as much of a straight face after doing the line 3-4 times. Which I'm sure Matt will deny. 😆

He poured them on with this video.

I truly appreciate the amount of dad-joke restraint. Matt rarely goes overboard.

I'm a bit rusty myself

@@BenjaminCronce 😆

If in the future technologies allow these to last longer imagine burying then under your home if they could last like 50 - 60 years. Maybe making it modular with an access port. That way when it's time to replace you can go in & disconnect the smaller units & drop in new ones rather than having a single monolithic unit. If all suburban homes had large back up batteries & solar panels, & there were open markets for selling power, you could realistically lower the costs drastically for everyone involved who couldn't afford to live in an freestanding home. Cheap energy storage will be the game breaker

@@WitchMedusa We'd have to get the utility companies to release their death grip on the state sponsored monopoly that they've enjoyed for the last few decades to see a future like you describe, but I'm all for it.

It will never be made available to domestic users. Too much money to be lost by power generation and distribution companies and their wealthy, powerful, influential owners.

@@WitchMedusa A good plurality of suburban homes are useless for solar, because we like our trees.

@@gazzaeabc3805 Yep, came to say the same thing. This country’s policies aren’t made by what’s sensible or logical or ethical, they are set by what’s most profitable to the entities that truly run the show. Case in point: utility company make sure to impose a fee to solar owners for the privilege of not using their services.

Did they try to get rid of natural gas power generation too?

Last nuclear power plant was switched of about a year ago. About half of energy at good days in last summer was created with renewable. Tendency increasing.

Appreciate that. Glad you're enjoying the videos.

Informative . ❤️💯👊

That's why it should be used by power plants to optimize their output and reduce heat waste

Salt water does have a lower freezing point, if that's what you meant, and depending on the density of salt in the water, it might work well below freezing; just a thought.

Always focus on as much variety as possible early on, and pick the best for a given situation after. Most of the battery designs that have come out in the past couple years will not be around in the next couple, because even if they're better than what we have now, they can't all be better than eachother. That being said, there's no point in just picking the first one better than what we have right now and mass-producing that when there's something much better right around the corner. Once the innovation slows down, it's about picking the best from there.

Economies of scale don't scale forever. In many cases it can be a u shape. Economics explained has a recent video on this. That said, it's hard to imagine salt and iron batteries not having an incredibly wide u

@@psalmy26 I was going to mention that. Thanks for the post

Why can't there be numerous cost effective solutions? And how do you know hyper centralization is necessarily cost effective? I think there's plenty of capital out there, but the rich are too obsessed with asset prices to actually invest in these sorts of technologies.

@@psalmy26 I don't trust batteries which plate iron on the anode side. That process is incredibly difficult/impossible to do reversibly without degradation. Rust is not an impermeable barrier to further degradation so the plated iron will rapidly rust away within a few cycles

All about energy density and how much and how fast it can discharge. They would be great for home use but trying to run major appliances and stuff, you would need a lot more batteries hooked up to make it work.

All the government's of the world have been giving the fossil fuel companies $400 BILLION per year, while only pretty recently giving ALL renewables combined just $66 billion. Numbers from right before covid. I'm assuming that in the last 2-3 years, renewables have been given more money. But with literally many decades of giving fossil fuel companies hundreds of billions while barely giving renewables anything, it's easy to see why battery tech has been so slow to advance.

for the exact reasons you just said its a final solution not a marketable product

because they could sell you disposable ones repeatedly.

Robert Pruitt: So what is your point Robert? Fossil is a proven thing and all these experimental ventures are maybes. Get out of the regulating business for fossil, stop subsidizing them, and then see what they can do free market. You will be glad we have fossil capability if/when the SHTF. Walk softly and carry a BIG stick. And hope you don't have to use it. I can tell you first-hand, you do not want a Chinese or N.Korean, or Russian tank driving down your street. And by the way - There is no apostrophe in governments.@@lordgarion514

Not only Salt Water is less toxic by itself, but it is also extremely easily available, accessible and harvested too, not to mention the promise of it to be able to also produce freaking Freshwater, which would make it far better if they deliver on that promise. Middle Eastern Nations would definitely fund this shit up with hundreds of billions of dollars if they make Battery Storage and Desalination capabilities be a proven real world application of the technology that can be scaled and developed.

I would love to have one for my home but I can't find any.

Well they have failed in residential applications because they do not deliver enough power quickly enough for inductive loads. The voltage will collapse and the inverter will shut down on low input voltage. This is why the previous saltwater battery company has since gone out of business.

​​@@UlexiteTVStoneLexiteI don't think such solution exists but I have reached out to them and shared some ideas as well. I believe there has to be a way to make these things more portable and therefore for use in homes.

@@ekeretteekpo3004 saltwater batteries are not portable

So True I remember the loss of UPS6 being one caused by a faulty lithium battery Cargo temps reached over 1100C Crew didn't have much of a chance to save the aircraft 😭

The first battery design in modern times the Volta stack is basically perfect as it is

Agreed... TWO 55 Gal stainless steel tanks should provide ~50 kWh @ 5kW rate... This would power most small homes!

Especially with that 20k cycle life, they would be the last batteries anyone would ever need. Just setup a larger battery shed or even better if someone had room to set the modular shipping container up in their yard and just hook the leads up to the home charger network, then disguise it as a work shed or plant some fast growing bushes in front of it if the sight of a container is off putting in some communities.

He seems to ignore LiFePO4 for some reason. LiFePO4 is already good enough for my to power my life till I die for less than the cost of a medium priced car. It is not theory, it is an already proven win for solar viability.

I'm a fan of LiFeP04 too. It's a great workhorse.

The low toxicity angle of this one sounds really appealing, food producing regions under threat from salt water surges and other such disasters could develop infrastructure to restore/maintain production in record time, boosting resilience with low risk of contamination.

@@lazysmurf420 It is a good solution for individual households but we need to scale up big time and flow batteries are what power companies need to start acquiring. The price of LiFePO4 would start skyrocketing if power companies started buying up all the premade (likely Chinese) batteries plus you still would be using up lithium and other precious metals that EV companies will likely be competing for. These simply require storage tanks and can be stackable with shipping containers in population-dense areas.

You have no idea.

Im also grateful because I know that any tech featured here means with 90% of certainty to be pseudoscience, a misunderstood trend, a scam or extremely overhyped tech. So is some short of ironic quack watch and I tell my friends to look it up here if they wanna know if its some short of scam or overhyped stuff.

It relieves stress for me, the future will not necessarily be all that bad!

LOL. Matt exaggerates everything. The idiocy & immorality of blind technology hope in the face of real problems.

​@@Rzwolle77 And there's the real reason Matt & co are popular: mass delusion to avoid hard truths & sacrifice. It's folks like RZ here that cause all the problems thru ignorance & gullibility. This is how Iraq happened.

and yet, none of this has ever been a game changer or had really worked as advertised

-20 shouldn't be a problem if the salt content is high enough. maybe a little active heating for the tanks, but mostly insulation. keep in mind that the VAST majority of north americans live in climates where it's too warm for the ocean to freeze.

These things seem to come in trailer loads per set. 🤔

Agreed, these would also be great micro grid and home battery solutions for suburban and rural homes which have space to put up a "battery shed" like their pump house for water. Days worth of power could be stored in case of snow storms blocking solar panels or just to climate control a house when waiting for the grid to come back on line, a problem that happens more than is realized in rural USA. They could even be used to charge when grid power is cheap at night then run the house off the batteries during the day when power is expensive, especially with a 20k cycle life!

@@anydaynow01 That was my thought exactly. I’m rural af. Acres. I’m also in the process of going Solar. How great would it be if I could just plop a cheap conex sized battery out back and have that to run my house overnight or during outages? I’d be all over it.

Least obvious chatgpt comment

The nerd in me chuckled every time I read "solution."

no, there is no harm in lithium mining. this is doomster talk nonsense. based on some oil lobby financed documentary on boomer media. first compare it to fossil, good, we can stop right here. but lets see, most lithium comes from australia, there are no issues with mining there. it can be done without any harm,, without any water consumed. same goes for battery production 90% of energy needed today because of the long baking is not needed in modern processes like dry coating. this will all come naturally because it reduces cost immensely. nothing is consumed, mining can stop at some point and a never ending cycle can take place. there is not shortage of lithium on earth, it is basically everywhere, mining has to increase, thats all. the market will solve this naturally, prices go up, mining increases, simple. why would you recommend to use lithium ion only for cars, this makes no sense whatsoever. you always have to include absolutely everything to have a good guess of what is doable and what is not. there are an infinite number of properties batterries have, and lithium ion ticks all the boxes like nothing else. the last 20 years ever yweek someone comes with a new "revolutionary" battery that can do this and that. then they have that one issue which makes them useless, like oh i can charge to 80% in 3 minutes but the battery only last 10 cycles. but at the end of the day it isnt even about which battery technology to use, it is all about high scale manufacturing. even the worst technology battery is good enough. the hard part is the insane amounts of them needed. there is an infinite amount of demand waiting for the first to serve. fro mall the solutions praised, sand heat storage seems like the only viable that makes sense imo the rest is battery, and that means lithium ion.

An insulation video would be great, the best thing anyone can do for their home to be eco friendly!

Lithium Ion instead of being vilified should be praised for the temporary bridge it provided while the naysayers and energy terrorists were exposed. Nukes are bad. Oil, gas are bad. Li batteries are bad. windmills are bad, solar is bad....etc. This is almost like a group of humanity hating people are trying to starve us of energy and food. What the world NEEDS and must have is hundreds of sources of energy production AND storage to supply the needs of modern society. However there is an industry in government, media, academia, who's total focus is to destroy as many sources of production and storage as possible.

Good morning!

I am directly working on the Salgenx project. I actually feel incredibly similar. A lot of these designs of "simple" hybrid flow batteries couldn't exist economically in the past due to large design flaws leading to bad efficiency. And then while investigating more complicated designs we found solutions for these "simple" designs and those solutions now are being used on these old designs with moderate -> extreme increases in total efficiency.

@@MrRollingPebble Are there concrete plans for home storage using this battery tech? Do you worry about foreign companies swooping in

What's the charge and discharge rates also?

wtf are you talking about, every battery is completely recycleable. lead acid is not cheaper than lithium, you always have to consider absolutely everything, lithium ion is unbeatable, infinitly available, no issues to mine etc

Right with you

That's awesome to hear, Lorenzo. I love Dave and what he's doing on Just Have a Think. He puts out incredible videos.

@@UndecidedMF and so do you Matt! You could plan together with Dave a monthly podcast (or a "once in a while" special episode). I don't know, but it feels promising somehow 😆

LFP already has an insane cycle life, vastly more than needed. every battery is dead easy to recycle, nothing is wasted, literally 97% can be reused. means, everything but the glue that keeps that thign together and some plastics. it wont get any better than this.

@@JohnSmith-pn2vl True. LFP is just Lithium, Iron and Phosphate - all none toxic.