There's a saying that goes "Loving isn't appreciating the good part, it's understanding the bad parts"

@@diinouhothead9362 It is a bad saying. Loving is having Mara Jade kicking your butt into action and stop mopping "because your nephew turn bad and you want to run away".

Yes, but we care too much and we form bad form of attachment - where we actually damage what we love.

@@mreszotnik so we’ve become the very thing we swore to destroy. We were supposed to bring balanced criticism, not act like a bunch of ass hats .

@@mreszotnik We have no impact on Star Wars, other than petition to finish the Clone Wars, so we can't damage it.

How is it sad to not nitpick and criticize every single minor thing you can think of when watching something?

I regard the quality of my life to be in direct correlation to the amount of deep thinking I'm able to muster during the day. This is unusual. But even I turn my brain off on a regular basis and just coast through watching KZfaq or silly nonsense. Everyone does.

I know right? enjoying movies for what they are despite the obvious flaws is so depressing, unlike those cool rad nitpickers and 5 hour long video essayists who are obsessed to the point where it's annoying, those people know how to enjoy life.

Hating everything is even sadder

Just "being along for the ride" is fine, but it is also fair to demand stories better than shovel ware, for writers to be more creative in the characters' motivations and setting. A very good story can often become better when analyzed more deeply. Because stories are written by people, stories inherit some of the writers' biases, good or ill, and it is good to reflect on how much of that message one should just mindlessly take in. Some of the more especially bad ones I've encountered in recent times is how "losing and replacing limbs with mechanical prosthetics makes you less human" is frankly an awful take, even for a villian.

The problem is that "the fandom manace" is the part of fandom that does not provide real, constructive criticism - but burries it together with half-truths and manipulations.

The majority of criticism I see is just denial. Or some blatant sexism. There's constructive criticism too but not a lot of it, and usually I see them get attacked by said 'menace'. Disney's saga was a sloppy rushed mess, that's mostly all people agree on.

because the fandom menace does not offer actual criticism, they just shout buzzwords like "woke" or "identity politics." That's not criticism, making 10 rage bait videos is not criticism. it's misplaced outrage over the smallest of problems, they want to blame the problem on "diversity" or "feminism" instead of actual criticism.

@@itsjustme6018 This is exactly the problem. It's especially frustrating in cases like the Disney trilogy, where there are plenty of legit criticisms to be made. I don't disagree with them that the movies were bad, but I do disagree with their reasoning for why that's the case. It's not the "Woke Agenda", it's more the rushing them out to cash in on the franchise with no plan or even consistent vision between directors etc.

@@itsjustme6018 man what does it mean to be "woke"

Meat is truly back on the menu boys !

yeah man, and why think that kids are dumb and cannot understand bigger arcs? ATLA had me on the seat week by week, full of emotion and it had multiple growing arcs at the same time. The way luke grew in the original trilogy, training, failing and growing, his fears and his last moment of darkness before being the hero we love, i was really young! like 8 or 9 when i watched it! 3 movies! one on tv 2 rented in blockbuster because i asked my father to please get them!

"Yeah, that's why no one liked Teen Titans, Justice League, Avatar, Gravity Falls, Gargoyles, Duck Tales, or Phineas and Ferb. ...wait..."

@@robertbeisert3315 oof, teen titans, the slade season was awesome!

Ah yes because Anakin in Revenge of the Sith burning in lava to a charred toasty 192 DEGREES Fahrenheit is FOR KIDS RIGHT? I agree Magmar. These people have lost it.

Like C.S. Lewis said, “No book is really worth reading at the age of ten which is not equally - and often far more - worth reading at the age of fifty and beyond.”

It's not that people criticise new era of Star Wars that I oppose. It's the way it is done. For example it is one thing to criticise Kenobi series, for rather cluttered plot, naive turns of events and inconsistent tone. But it is another when a bunch of trolls DMs Reva's actress some racist nonsense, the actress reacts with dismay, and the trolls hide among the crowd of real fans causing ruckus: "See!" - they say - "They are accusing ALL of Fans of being racist!" Voila - hatred and conflict is the result. Also, the shotgun approach to criticism is also unfair when I hear how awful Disney era of Star Wars is. Disney may have failed with its sequel trilogy, but when they succeed with Rebels, Rogue One, Solo, Mandalorian and Andor, it is as if those productions were not created by them.

@@mreszotnik Rebels was at best controversial till the later seasons, Solo undersold. While I agree that some people can go too extreme with attacking, those are extremists and should be treated as such. But the problem is Disney and the shills have now tried to place all fans with those kind of criticisms and disappointments within that same category.

​@@kingorange7739 As all Dave Filoni's series the first season of Rebels was essential but underwhelming. Starting from season 2 it was markedly improved. Solo may be undersold, but it is solid, awful marketing notwithstanding. I agree that plenty of critics rise many valid criticisms of the sequel trilogy and some TV shows... but as I mentioned these criticisms are co-opted by trolls mixed together with bad faith arguments and outright lies, and give holistic impression of bad faith. To be honest as much as labeling all people who criticise the sequels as "fandom manace" is unfair labeling those who see worth in these movies as "shills" is equally counterproductive.

@@mreszotnik And I want to clear the floor in saying I’m not claiming those who like what Disney makes to be shills. I only direct that word on those who will attack people who criticize the work.

@@mreszotnik I’m not sure why you think “shill” is in any way inaccurate when you can literally make an analysis of each of the sequels as long as the films themselves pointing out flaws (you might find it pedantic, but the issue is still there) while the sequel defenders claim the movies are masterpieces. That’s why they’re called shills. Liking the movies isn’t a problem by itself. It’s the refusing to actually acknowledge the criticism in the first place that’s the problem.

I agree with all of this

The thing is, they never just break the rules, they stick very close to what works.

I would argue that there's hierarchy to Star Wars canon. The OT, PT, the clone wars, & Lucas' treatments for the sequels: ABSOLUTELY CANON. Stuff made by Dave Filoni & or Jon Favreau: probably canon. The original EU: possibly canon at least in some places, or canon for an alternate timeline (Heir to the Empire trilogy, etc.). The Disney trilogy: footage of just the legacy characters probably canon, everything else probably not canon or ABSOLTUELY NOT CANON. And so on.

@@michaelisland2047 There WAS canon hierarchy under Lucas, but what you're listing here is your headcanon.

@@yrooxrksvi7142 I agree there was canon hierarchy under Lucas. That supports my point. How is this just my headcanon? I think anybody would be very hard pressed to argue that SW stories written by people other than Lucas are just as much canon as SW stories written & or approved by Lucas. I argue that it's pretty clear that the closer a SW story is to how Lucas would've written it and or approved it (it's themes, it's characters, it's style, it's plot, it's worldbuilding, it's politics, it's philosophy, it's spirit in general, etc.), the more genuine Star Wars it is. I mean, what's more genuine Star Wars than what Lucas wrote and or approved of? This is the principle I used to make the hierarchy list I wrote in my previous comment. So, what parts of my list are inconsistent with this principle?

@@michaelisland2047Anyone who grows up with the Disney produced materials will disagree with you. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia.

Did you just unironically call people normies? Look at yourself my guy, what's brought you to this point

No it doesn’t.

I want all the hatred to stop!

I don't have to, I like to, I don't watch something I don't enjoy, and I will never tell anyone to turn their brain instead of criticising a movie, that's fine.

@@dreamerfrostbite2066 shows and movies have to make sense, even fiction is grounded in it's own universe. Things being on screen going boom & pow is nice to look at, but it shouldn't compromise the lore and story telling. If I leave a movie with more questions than answers, they failed. The bar has become so low that people praise mediocrity, hence just about everything released within the last few years bombing. Outside of Arcane and a few other hidden gems, art is now passionless.

@@champcpr I wholeheartedly disagree but that's my opinion

Very true.

Or complain for nearly a decade

And how can you differentiate them? Because one person’s criticism is another person’s nitpicking.

​@@redvonmunster3731 dude there's no time restriction for when a movie can be talked about

​@@Lobsterwithinternetsimple. Nitpicking originally comes from knitting. You take a single thread and you unravel a whole creation because of ONE SINGLE OUT OF PLACE THREAD. Everything related to one bad scene, one bad installation becomes garbage. Now, anytime someone says they like the other parts, everyone hops on the hatred bandwagon and says the whole head is sick. An entire story is thrown out because some parts of it either don't make sense or don't expand enough or aren't as enjoyable. Something that's easily 8/10 becomes 5/10 off one or two bad scenes. People stop seeing past their own nose to criticize something, you know you've stepped into nitpicking territory.

​@@ryanbarth6691if I hear someone complain for anything over a month about how bad a movie is, I'm convinced they have an obsession and need an intervention. Much less an entire decade. It can be deep, you can bring it up, we can rap about it, but it ain't THAT deep.

The Outer Wilds is incredible.

@@master_samwise holy shit. It’s a rare occasion one of my veiled recommendations to play Outer Wilds goes unneeded. Absolute legend. I shall watch your career with great interest.

I actually think destiny 2 has mostly been better than that. I think the fast food comparison is still apt, because of the nature of live service games, but I think destiny's overall story and lore has been very good for several years now. I enjoy its story more than most tv shows that come out these days. Of course, lightfall had to ruin that streak, but still.

@@shnobby3547 agreed, it’s been pretty consistent quality-wise for the past 2ish years. And that is what I really mean by the “fast food” analogy. You can play it as much or as little as you want and there isn’t these wild swings in quality or experience from day to day.

Always love a shout-out to my favorite game of all time outerwilds

not a good argument when I do that with every movie I watch, im not making essays im watching and enjoying a movie for what it is. if it sucks, I don't watch it, simple.

@@dreamerfrostbite2066I don’t think anything sucks

Love the Disney Plus shows! I beg of you!

I love the Disney Plus shows. I don’t want to be alone!

I have friends with similar points of view, I got annoyed at first but I try not to let it get to me anymore as I have tried to, but cannot change their mind. Some people have simpler minds I guess, but they are still our friends 🤝

you sound "fun" to be around

​@@bjorn-kriek1954 you sound like a very arrogant and pathetic friend who can't take a chill pill, and that's my problem right there, you can't accept that someone just enjoys a movie even if they may agree with you, they have to agree with everything and need to be just as pissed, annoyed, snobby, and just plain petty as you are. real people aren't like that.

I get the opposite, I literally grew up with the prequels and have been a fan since (21 turning 22 after Christmas) and everytime I talk about these movies or want to enjoy them with friends and family, they won't stfu. criticism is fine, hearing it constantly and repeatedly is frustrating and ruins the experience for me.

My wifey was also on the edge of killing me when things started off, too. Not to mention my daughter is named in honour of Mara jade

That’s not a good mindset to be in. You have to empathize with the writers and directors of the new projects. Appreciate them.

@@benmalsky9834 man, when they start showing respect to the source material and care for the characters they write about (and hopefully write a good script. hopefully), I will. Appreciating blindly people who do their job poorly just looks like a lack of critical thinking, and frankly like a cult

That's pretty typical of AAA games these days. You can tell the developers poured their blood, sweat, and tears into the game, but the decisions made above their pay grade typically cause the game to be unimaginative, rushed and buggy, or just plain broken. Indie games that don't have the demands of a giant publisher often run so much better and are far more creative and, well, FUN. I'm planning a video that will touch on this topic.

There no such thing as bad Star Wars to me.

Everything Star Wars is good in my opinion.

​@@benmalsky9834 Space vacuum flying Leia?

It DOES!

They do! Why do you keep saying that? It has to stop.

For What Is Right - Trevor Kowalski

Well, it's been nearly a decade, if you can't put your thoughts into words in that amount of time...

Adding new female characters and have them be all of a sudden great at everything and not have character flaws is forced diversity. Don't deny the objective truth.

They did NOT reduce it to mindless entertainment!

Anyone who thinks that clearly has no idea what makes them so good.

@@benmalsky9834 What?

@@maxotto9877 Please don’t blast me, I believe there is no bad Star Wars content. I love the franchise as a collective whole.

@@maxotto9877 Can you please just lighten up and think about what does make them good?

Well put. I think it's easy for fans to fall into group think that generalizes an entire movie or show as good or bad, and thus above any criticism or not deserving of any praise. Good stories have their flaws and bad stories have their bright spots, but that kind of nuanced viewpoint isn't always appreciated, especially on the internet.

1. What criticisms are going to try to apply to the other movies that you feel people have only criticized the ST for?

​@@kingorange7739 For example, 1) the sequels are accused of inconsistency within the story. However, this criticisms can leveled against ALL mainline SW movies. Examples include but are not limited to: - When heroes escape Naboo in ep 1 they have to deal with blockade... but when they return to that planet later in the movie they just end up on the planet undetected with no confrontation - Imperial officer not shooting down/ tractor beaming the escape pod with R2 and 3PO at the start of the New Hope because there are no life signs... in a galaxy full of droids, computer systems and wireless modes of communication. - Leia somehow remembers her mother's face... even though she was a blind baby... the force does wonders, I guess. 2) plot contrivances: - In episode 2 Jango uses the only weapon that could reveal Kamino to kill the Assassin he himself hired. And clearly this is not his plan judging from how unprepared he is for Obi’s visit. Not to mention the roundabout way in which the assassination was executed. - So Kaminoans were making clones for the Republic. Ok, but where on earth did all those ships, landers, tanks, etc. come from? The movie even states that the Republic is not militarily prepared for war. - When the team escaped Death Star Leia suspects it was too easy and that the Empire let them escape… and yet they fly straight to Yavin 4 suspecting they are tracked, endangering the WHOLE REBELLION. Should they not consult with someone first? - AT-AT are the most nonsense machines ever with no ability to shoot target above or behind them... but they somehow succeed defeating flying speeders… - oh, and AT-ATs can be defeated with TOWING CABLES… - but speeders never use them to attack AT-ATs from behind. - BTW, where are the X-Wings to bomb the shit out of them? Oh yeah, they are protecting transports that do not need protection because the Empire does not deploy Tie Fighters for some reason, and Ion cannon is OP. - Teddy bears defeating "the finest Stormtrooper legion" is so much fail. I can do this all day. If you bring stuff like that the sequel critic, you'd be "nitpicking" - which is an argument I agree with. It is pretty petty. But when you point out they do the same with the sequels, all hell breaks lose.

@@mreszotnik “1) the sequels are accused of inconsistency within the story. However, this criticisms can leveled against ALL mainline SW movies.” - I will agree with that, however criticisms are going to somewhat be based on also on how much they happen and how much they impact the rest of the story. “Examples include but are not limited to: - When heroes escape Naboo in ep 1 they have to deal with blockade... but when they return to that planet later in the movie they just end up on the planet undetected with no confrontation” - This was explained in the movie itself that the rest of the fleet withdrew and they left only one droid command ship left. “- Imperial officer not shooting down/ tractor beaming the escape pod with R2 and 3PO at the start of the New Hope because there are no life signs... in a galaxy full of droids, computer systems and wireless modes of communication.” - This isn’t an inconsistency as much as it is simply a bad decision on the officer’s part. Which while dumb was not out of character within imperial arrogance, an oversight Vader himself corrects just a few minutes later. It is likely they assumed the ship did not have droids on board or at least not any capable of operating an escape pod. “- Leia somehow remembers her mother's face... even though she was a blind baby... the force does wonders, I guess.” - Ok, this one I will give you. However this is an inconsistency with ROTS more than ROTJ. But I will agree with it. “2) plot contrivances: - In episode 2 Jango uses the only weapon that could reveal Kamino to kill the Assassin he himself hired. And clearly this is not his plan judging from how unprepared he is for Obi’s visit. Not to mention the roundabout way in which the assassination was executed.” - Ok this is clearly explained that any time Jango is not on bounty missions, he stays on Kamino to keep being a donor for the clones. While it isn’t explicitly stated, it can be logically inferred that Jango bought and or borrowed weapons of Kamanoin design, probably banking on the idea that the Jedi were not yet aware of Kamino’s existence. “- So Kaminoans were making clones for the Republic. Ok, but where on earth did all those ships, landers, tanks, etc. come from? The movie even states that the Republic is not militarily prepared for war.” - The ships were already on Kamino when the clones were being loaded on board. Again, while not explicitly stated, it would be pretty worthless for the Kaminoins to produce an army for the Republic without a means of transporting said army. “- When the team escaped Death Star Leia suspects it was too easy and that the Empire let them escape… and yet they fly straight to Yavin 4 suspecting they are tracked, endangering the WHOLE REBELLION. Should they not consult with someone first?” - Yeah this one I will also give you. There were tight circumstances behind the scenes for this, but I agree that the fact Leia just led the Empire to Yavin never sat right with me and probably stood as the only major flaw of ANH. “- AT-AT are the most nonsense machines ever with no ability to shoot target above or behind them... but they somehow succeed defeating flying speeders…” - Clearly that isn’t the case. As the AT-ATs have been able to shoot against flying targets. Also this is a design criticism rather than an issue with the plot. Of course I know why you are doing it, you are making a comparison to the bombers in TLJ. However while the AT-ATs were still showcased to be extremely effective at what it was designed to do. The bombers literally had no shields from enemy fire, had no failsafe to prevent that one ship’s explosion caused a chain reaction that destroyed half the bomber fleet, and the fact that the bomber does not even move fast enough to get out of the way of the explosion after it hits. Meaning they were going to get killed no matter what. “- oh, and AT-ATs can be defeated with TOWING CABLES… - but speeders never use them to attack AT-ATs from behind.” - Given there were multiple columns of AT-ATs in the movie, it was likely they would be shot down from behind if they tried to do that. “- BTW, where are the X-Wings to bomb the shit out of them? Oh yeah, they are protecting transports that do not need protection because the Empire does not deploy Tie Fighters for some reason, and Ion cannon is OP.” - The Rebels did not know whether or not the Empire would deploy Ties during the space engagement, something Han, Leia, and Chewy learned the hard way when post battle Ties were chasing them all over. I will agree it was dumb on the Empire’s end not to deploy Ties earlier, but as mentioned, the Empire’s biggest weakness in all three movies was their arrogance. However it is fair to state they did not know of the Ion Canon till after one Star Destroyer got hit by it. “- Teddy bears defeating "the finest Stormtrooper legion" is so much fail.” - You are aware they defeated our main heroes too. Contrary to misguided notions, the Ewoks are not to be underestimated, this was intentional to serve as an allegory to Vietnam. I can do this all day. “If you bring stuff like that the sequel critic, you'd be "nitpicking" - which is an argument I agree with. It is pretty petty. But when you point out they do the same with the sequels, all hell breaks lose.” - Actually I think it completely fair to point out flaws in relation to the older movies when it is in the same context, as long as you are doing it understanding that you are not making the material you are trying to defend look any better. It is only making the other stuff look worse. However something many people get wrong including you to an extent as that the criticisms weighted against the ST are not under the same context as those that could in theory be weighted against the OT or PT. Both within the universe and in real life.

​@@kingorange7739 You see what you are doing - you are coming up with the ways to explain the inconsistencies in the plot of OT and PT. Which is a fun exercise and something that us fans do. And I applaud that (even though you are factually wrong about several of your hypotheses). But for some reason all too often people are not doing to do the same service to the sequels. And to be frank, they were not doing the same for the prequels either - only recently the sentiment changed. To be frank, I do not understand your argument about different context for the ST. How is it different? To my mind all mainline SW movies have always been Space Operas. And Space Opera and its progenitor genre - the Opera - it does not care so much about consistency as about moral message and spectacle. This is baked in, in the genre. Hell, back in the day the prequels were hated partly because George Lucas retconned Heir of Empire trilogy - so true to its roots, the prequels were not big on consistency. I know, that many novels and other media that represented other genres came up over years - sci-fi military fiction, detective/mystery novels, thrillers, even light-horror stores, and such. And they might have been more consistent, because they were playing to the strengths of their respective genres. But guess what - Space Opera cannot easily use the devices that belong to different genre, and remain true to itself. And as such I find most "consistency" and "coherence" type of accusations leveled at the ST to be missing the point. It is as if people wanted the imagery and trivia of the old movies, but god forbid their silliness and adherence to spectacle. In other words, they'd like Star Wars to reflect their more mature sentiments. And that's fine when you make something like Rogue One, which is unlike any other SW mainline movie. It is ok to explore the other genres. But maybe we should leave the mainline Sage true to its roots. This is not to say the ST is not flawed. There are all kinds of issues with the movies such as, characterisation of the main cast, pacing problems, singular movies not really complementing each other, etc. But these movies are nowhere near as awful as people make them out to be.

that's why it's an analogy

Somebody: sees anyone giving any kind of review analysis that does the bare minimum of understanding Star Wars Also somebody: OMG! You should be hired to write all of Star Wars! There’s probably a reason why you don’t see random people on the internet get hired to write for popular franchise.

@@blizzardwizard6067 I made the statement as a joke. As if to say that random fans and critics on the internet are better than the current "writers" at Lucas Film, and Disney couldn't care less.

You really should appreciate Disney’s projects more. They honestly are really good.

Wake me up in a few years when enough nostalgia has built up for people to like the films and shows from Disney as much as I do.

@@benmalsky9834 I appreciate Disney for there great films but this modern stuff they're pumping out is just disappointing

Toxicity is an ignorant slur used right now to disparage genuine and logical criticism of anything Disney Star Wars.

@@markgarrett3647 no mate it really isn't, im all for critique like I said but that's a silly take from you. there is a clear difference between having a valid disagreement or criticism about a form of art, and having an obsessively negative attitude towards said art.

Yes, they WERE given proper attention and DO have nuance.

You have to just suck it up and see the value in the new projects.

@@benmalsky9834 If you wanna mindlessly consume anything that has the Star Wars brand slapped on it, be my guest. I know Star Wars can do much better than sludge like the sequels, Kenobi, and TBOBF.

no I kinda like and enjoy star wars, I don't feel obligated to criticize it, even if a have an actual book of pages with critiques on star wars. im just gonna have fun :)

Shouldn’t you be watching Troll 2 or something?

What?

@@parkaller7959 I actually was the first person to view the video

@@BatsBats38 Yes, cool. Your comment was just written in a confusing way.

I mean do you not even find Star Wars the Clone Wars or some of the games good?

That's what I thought until I saw Andor. Somebody accidentally let talent loose on the universe!

Revenge of the Sith is a better movie than Return of the Jedi. Rogue One atmosphere is very close to the OT.

This is a certified realistic dadaism moment

What fucking star wars are you watching?

No!! All of Star Wars is NOT "severely flawed" at all. Yes there are flaws in all the movies, but what Lucas had created was enjoyable to the point those flaws never mattered, that's why his movies still hold up today despite their flaws, something the Disney machine seems to have forgotten about or deliberately put aside, but to suggest what we all enjoyed as kids is on the same level as the so called "modern movies" of today is ludicrous.

@@RoaryUK Bro, the hate Lucas received for the prequels proves that not all that "Lucas had created was enjoyable to the point those flaws never mattered". I am glad that these days people started showing more love for the prequels... but I am dismayed that they do so at the cost of: 1) being completely blind to its flaws to the point of being hypocritical about them; 2) finding a new witch to burn instead; 3) not even trying to engage with the positive side of the new SW content including the sequels. Judging from the fact that people started changing their minds about TLJ, it may be anticipated that in some time, the sequels as well are going to be seen as "enjoyable despite their flaws". Here are some examples of KZfaqrs who changed their opinion on TLJ: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mslke9iCnN3bmYk.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hdaeh5WrtJfHqIE.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9J_oa6IxM2qfHk.html

Here's an idea: Stop defending lousy character development, plotlines, special effects, OG portrayals and script writing.

@@markgarrett3647 Here’s another idea, accept other people’s opinions.

Everything, huh? Like how everyone hated Andor? Right? No, no, it can't be that Disney just doesn't give a shit anymore and just pumps out 95% sludge because they know they don't have to try that hard to get people to watching anything Star Wars.

@@master_samwise Why won’t you see things from my perspective?

Yeah why do people hate it when their movies take a massive nosedive in quality all of a sudden.

@@markgarrett3647 They never do in my opinion.

@@benmalsky9834 The strong negative response to the Prequels and other movies proves what you just said to be wrong.