When you have the pressure of developing a young Melo or Wade, chemistry and identity might not have been the same, it could have hurt their chances. Starting Melo over Prince or Sheed in that playoff run?

​@@twentyseven2948 I think that coach also was the reason for the bronze medal in that Olympics. I think that more talented players were on that team.

@@twentyseven2948 Not that year but the years after. Nothing would change for '04. But when you get to '06 and after...

They were able to

@@goodjoejoe Larry Brown coached an Olympics team with LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, Iverson and Tim Duncan. They only got the bronze medal.

They didn't let ben Wallace go but it had to do with a feud with Saunders

@@tj5180 Ben Wallace said in an interview that the Bulls gave him a contract that the Pistons didn’t wanna match so he left

@@Dtown1996 that might have been a reason but him and Saunders didn't get along. Their articles that talk about this how Saunders would bench him and during the 2006 playoffs as well in game 6 and wallace criticized him

Robert “Horny” 👀💀

@@Dtown1996 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y5eFodtzmr7Pdqc.html

They wouldn't have traded for sheed and won nothing

i use to think Tim Hardaway and Penny Hardaway were related to. it didn’t help they are like the only Hardaways in the league (excludi Timmy’s son)

@@markjackson6431 I use to think Shaquille O’Neal and Jermaine O’Neal were related too.

Well, considering Kane and Undertaker aren't related in real life, and Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace aren't related either, they actually ARE like Kane and The Undertaker after all.

@@markjackson6431wait they not related?

@@bayleepama nah man. but they might be the only two Hardaways to play the game. i’m excluding Timmy’s son.

@@MangoTroubles-007 lol. watch out. super tuff guy here.

And they barely even used their rookie Literally passed on hof for nothing

​@Mountain Dew Baja Blast Melo, Wade, Bosh was better than any piston and would have got time

Its like the Packers missing on Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders because they drafted Tony Mandarich

​@@chrollolucilfer8618 Holy Sh_t! Did they? The Packers would be a damn dynasty in the 1990s instead of the Dallas Cowboys.. Brett Farve, Berry Sanders as the one, two punch and Deion Sanders on Defense playing Safety playing behind a Reggie White.. The Packers robbed themselves of a dynasty..

​@@Unbreakable808 Larry Brown is a defensive minded coach, ain't no way Melo or Wade would had playing time.. The only one I see getting playing time was Chris Bosh..

Not me. Not Detroit. We expected it. I called to buy a season ticket package within 2 minutes of hearing we got Sheed. My immediate thought was, We just won the championship. I'm going! 🏆

​@@nathanlawson313for you, i know they'll be a contender in the east once they got sheed but i didn't expect them to beat LA. I actually legit glad they humbled shaq and kobe so it led to their breakup😁

Probably 2011 Mavs

Oh please. They were basically a product of the handcheck rule where basically you could mug and hack and foul and get away with it.

Random question, who's actually the best player on 2004 pistons?

Crazy tight defense

@@kao856 the NBA told the Referees to not let the Pistons Win it. We still took the Spurs to 7 Games despite being handicapped and despite Raheed's Decision to let Horry hit that 3.

That finals was boring and exciting at the same time lol

We tried to milk an aging roster to more championship runs. Then you draft knight over kemba. You stagnate your front court by drafting two similar players in Greg Monroe and Drummond. You pay Josh smith. You trade for Brandon Jennings right when he’s looking like he can potentially be a guy you build around he tears his Achilles ruins his career. You trade Tobias Harris and Chris Middleton two guys who pretty much are 18ppg scorers at the very least for 80% of their careers. You trade for Blake griffin. He has one career year but suffers a knee injury which ended his prime. That’s not even all of the moves. A mix of bad management and key players being ruined by injury

Trading Chauncey for AI was also a terrible move

Random question, who's actually the best player on 2004 pistons?

@@accountant3847 Easy to say Chauncey since he won finals mvp but Ben was the heart of that team and had the biggest impact on the team

@@bobbysmoove4796 the best player was sheed talent wise. Overall the best player was Ben

As a Die hard Spurs fan...it's my favorite title. Pistons are my second favorite team because of this incredibly hard team.

We lost Mike James too

Their only strong bench pickup during the 2004 offseason was Antonio Mcdyess buts that’s it.

Random question, who's actually the best player on 2004 pistons?

Mehmet Okur was simply let go to sign with Utah. Same goes to Mike James (Milwaukee). Their agents did a good job hitting two goals in one signing: More money and more playing time. As for Corliss Williamson, few days before or during training camp he was traded to Philly for Derrick Coleman. In retrospect, it was a stupid move. Sure, they signed Antonio McDyess. But letting go of Okur and Williamson lost the Pistons' frontline depth and thrives under Larry Brown's system. Carlos Arroyo was impressive all the way to stunning upset of beating US that summer's Olympics, but arguably James is a better backup for his instant offense. Regardless, the Pistons were close to repeat, but getting the job done again is way better than being close.

Okur was low key perfect in that role

The Nuggets only improved 2 games in 2008-09

Only difference was 50 wins in 2007-08 got you the 8 seed in the West... In 2008-09 52 wins got you the 2 seed... Either way the results were the same.. The Nuggets lost to the Lakers in the playoffs

@@cmoneyno5conference finals tho and Billups leadership helped get them there.

@@wutangforever Only difference is 50 wins in 2007 =8 seed and 52 wins in 2008 = 2 seed

@@wutangforever They lost to the Lakers both years... There really wasn't a difference

Rip was the Mask?

Rasheed, a walking technical and ejection 😂😂

Random question, who's actually the best player on 2004 pistons?

@@accountant3847 Ben Wallace. He was to the 2000s Pistons what Bill Russell was to the '50s-'60s Celtics.

@@JAWrightonline Good analogy

💯

Haunts me to this day

Yep, but the guard play was killing Detroit, bc our backcourt couldn't keep up with the Spurs younger ball handlers. Yes Browns situation hurt the team all yrs in the repeat yr.

Cuz defense was allowed back then

Or how bad offense was

Nahhh offenses were just bad and lacked creativity. Offenses favorite play was just to throw the ball to a player and let him cook in ISO

Bad offense (lack of 3pt skills so no spacing) and defense rules that wasn't in favor of scorers (hand checking, contacts, offensive fouls, etc)

@@davidjr4903 Because apparently offense wasn't allowed back then? That wasn't great defense, that was just brick after brick

Yep the Pistons firing Larry Brown and hiring Flip Saunders brought them the same downfall as the Celtics firing Ime Udoka for Joe Mazulla this past season. While the Pistons and Celtics had better offense under Saunders and Mazulla they both lost their edge on defense under Brown and Udoka. They went from being runner up in the finals to losing in the conference finals a year later.

💯

thats when basketball started to suck.

Yes….. also the Pistons offense was mediocre

@@williambrabston3045 Oh please. Basketball was 'better' when teams barely scored 80?

​@@chrisuncleahmad absolutely. I'll take that over today's 3 point clown shows that go 110+ both sides

Flip is one of the worst coaches in NBA history. A noob. My high school team ran more complex concepts. Pistons players thought he was joking at first.

It was game 5

It really came down to the beef between Kobe and Shaq at the time that lead the Lakers to lose.

@@selfoblivionalex6262 no way. that excuse is so tired. they simply got beat, just like they did in 99, just like they did in 2003. they werent unbeatable.

@@Cristian-vm1bg when 2 of yout best players of a teams are having beef its going to effect the game, Not saying the 04 pistons were a bad team but their championship win was simply right place and time they saw a disfunctional laker team and went for it. Plus this same pistons team got destroyed by the spurs the follwing year and heat in 06.

Kobe literally shot the Lakers out the series because he couldn't stand Shaq getting another finals MVP. Piston fans just live in fantasy land lol.@@Cristian-vm1bg

@@selfoblivionalex6262 That's not at all why the Lakers lost, lol. If that were the case, they would've lost either to the Spurs or Wolves, but they made it to the finals. The Lakers didn't losebecause the Shaq and Kobe beef. They lost because they didn't have role players to take any sort of pressure off of their two superstars once the Pistons fully committed to sending help on both Shaq and Kobe whenever they went to make their move. You can literally rewatch the series on KZfaq and see Fisher, Devean George, Medvedenko, Payton, and Malone (who admittedly got injured) either shoot bricks or get too scared to shoot their wide open shot and pass the ball back to Kobe to throw up a ridiculously tough shot. The narrative that the Lakers lost because of the "beef" is overplayed and just a poor excuse. The Lakers had no depth and it showed. That's why they lost

Celtics from 2017 till now with Smart, Tatum, Brown and Horford... not the same streak as the Pistons but good consistency

It astounds me how people put comments up that prove they know nothing about basketball 😂🤷 Well, this is one of those comments.

Random question, who's actually the best player on 2004 pistons?

Huh? Nobody liked the Pistons. The General Public even took the Pacer's side in the Malice at the Palace fiasco. The only people that liked the Pistons back then were A) Already Pistons Fans or B) Lakers Haters. They were a boring team that nobody enjoyed watching. Just look at the Viewers and Rating for the Finals they were in. Lakers? Great Ratings because duh Kobe Shaq Lakers. Take the Lakers out? Viewership for Game One of Spurs Pistons was only 2/3rds of Game One from the previous year. 5 Million Viewers declined to watch a second straight Pistons Finals. Not a Single Game came close to matching the previous year finals until Game 7, and even then it still didn't meet the Viewer Numbers that a 4 games to 1 Pistons Championship did against The Lakers.

@@justinlast2lastharder749 Because most of the views came by casual fans who didn't like the structure of the Pistons and the Spurs.

Chauncey Billups was not far off of superstar in his best seasons. Better than his reputation for sure.

Facts.

As a Lakers fan, I respected that Pistons team far more than the CWebb era Kings.

@@Theterminato2013 why? Refs gave the lakers that championship. Kings were far better.

More like overrated. They only won 1 fluke championship in 6 eastern conference appearances lol.

@@Theterminato2013 You aren't a real laker fan

Giannis and Jokic are MVPs, Finals MVPs and champions. They're the 2 best players in the world. If anyone is still skeptical of them, they're idiots who don't know ball.

​@@dvs620keyword being "were" He meant when they drafted people had their doubts about them.

@@dexenationgracey1979 Giannis was drafted 15 and Jokic was a 2nd round pick n people weren't skeptical of them because people weren't expecting anything from them, especially Jokic.

@dvs620 If you have your doubts about a draft pick amounting to anything, that's skepticism.

@@dexenationgracey1979 Yeah, that's not what's being talked about here. First off, NO ONE was skeptical of Luka. At the time, the Ayton pick was defensible, it wasn't about Luka. The Kings passing on him was stupidity mixed with a grudge. And, in the case of Jokic, being skeptical isn't the same as low to no expectations. You're conflating the two. With Giannis, I don't remember hearing anything about him one way or the other. Again, skepticism is not the same as low expectations.

don't forget he gave the league Popovich! and was a Spurs coach

Spurs just seemed a lot smarter in hindsight

Lost Mike James too. I’m sure some it was salary cap issues but Dumars failed to ever put together a competent bench for the core after 04.

💯💯💯💯💯

He's a lot better than people realize. Borderline HOFer and still the Pistons all-time leader in Win Shares

@@dash_r_media agreed, bro! 💯One of the biggest factors on why he's not a borderline HOFer is due to most people forgetting his overall basketball skills.

Random question, who's actually the best player on 2004 pistons?

@@accountant3847 Billups.

Absolutely too much dribble penetration killed them plus rebounding.

Facts

East been bad ever since

East was not weak in 04 they beat New Jersey. New Jersey beat the spurs 2 games in 03 finals. And pacers had the best record in the league with 61 wins in 04.

@@markamica1755 Pacers? LMFAO What about the Bucks? West>East!

@@LALakers4life34 what are u talking about? bucks were an 8th seed with micheal redd every year back then.

@@markamica1755 I meant now dumbass, east been weak since 99.

2019 Raptors? Bruh, I know you didn't just ask that one 😭😭😭😭 that franchise's entire claim to relevance hinged on Kawhi re signing there and he didn't

I mean, those 76ers were coexisting with prime Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics and Showtime Lakers, and the mileage was catching up to Dr. J.

Easy..in order Blazers: Injuries Sixers: Age Raptors: Losing Kawhi

Both teams actually won a game on each other's court so it wasn't a true homecourt advantage

@@chrisuncleahmad I remember...game 5 and 6...I was clearly talking about game 7 at home. That's where home court advantage is most critical....idk where you people come from. You're not smart, you ALWAYS decide post some of the most pointless, irrevelant nonsense you can think of...every video on any subject. It doesn't matter. Morons are everywhere. Human Nats...

@@chrisuncleahmadThat's exactly, what home court advantage looks like. Couldn't had been more specific in the original comment. If you weren't around than watching it in real time. Don't post about it!

Especially where Manu was when Sheed came over. Because of the way Manu caught the inbound pass, he was stuck in the corner. A single defender can deal with any offensive player in that situation

Can't forget all the moving screens and the referees bailing the Spurs out on a lot of calls.

Manu was great that series but not game, and Horry scored like 18 of their last 25

@@Mathias3710 Let’s not forget all the flopping the Spurs did too.

@@Mathias3710 The Spurs over the course of many years were better than the Pistons, but I am not so sure about 2005, maybe they were and someone can certainly claim that. However, your answer hit the nail on the head. Every team gets away with some moving screens, that's basketball. However, the Spurs more than any other team used moving screens as a core part of their offense. Also, Ginobili, who is HOF player and deservedly so, was a big time flopper and slammed himself into defenders so much and yet the defender would get the foul call, SMH.

True that but Mehmet Okur wanted to start and a bigger role on offense so that’s why he left the Pistons and signed with the Jazz during the 2004 offseason.

Nope. After Pistons beat the 04 Lakers and the 05 low-scoring finals, NBA make sure this kind of teams and play style won't happen again. Now we only have these scoring orgies where teams are barely allowed to play defense. It's really sad. The 05 7 game series between Spurs and Pistons is probably the best final series to watch for a neutral basketball fan.

Even IF the Kobe played unselfishly, I still don’t think they’ll beat the Pistons. That 04 Lakers team was very top heavy af. Great starting 5, but absolute shit bench. Our best bench players were only Devean George and Derek Fisher. The rest were young or mediocre like Slava Medvedenko who back up Shaq and Malone on the bench, Rookie Brian Cook and Luke Walton and Sophomore spot up shooter, Kareem Rush. Pistons had a far superior roster from top to bottom.

@@Theterminato2013 A superior roster that itself admitted to using psychology to win? I didn't say they were a bad team; they were a great team. But the only reason they won most games is Kobe going 0.381% from the field, 0.174 from 3, and only getting 4.4 assists a night; when you're one of the team's offensive leaders, and shots stop falling, it's your job to open up the floor and get the others involved, especially Shaq who, contrary to popular belief, still owned Ben with 26.6 pts 10.8 rebs on 0.631% shooting. Kobe took close to 30 shots a game. Why did roleplayers play poorly? Because they never got the ball when they needed it. A similar performance happened in the 2000 finals; Kobe shot poorly and rarely passed, except he agreed to play fewer minutes within the Shaq-centric system. Just look at how James Harden transformed from a first option to a secondary or tertiary option; he accepted his role and started passing a lot when shots stopped falling. Coincidently, he also plays with a dominant (probably) MVP bigman and spams passes to him as soon as he gets cold. There's a reason why they never won another title: they were a somewhat predictable low-offense high-defense team that got lucky enough to play in the mid-2000s Eastern Conference, AKA a joke of a conference; as soon as competent opponents appeared in the conference, they were done.

@@RVered This narrative is not really true and has become easy thing Kobe haters use to dis credit him Kobe single handle won the only game LA won in Game 2 and 3 of the 4 losses were blowout he basically cost them Game 4 Shaq had great game and Kobe shot terrible but overall the series was lost cause No 1 KMalone got injured causing Medvidanko start and LA 3-5 leading scorer was DFischer at 6PPG 30% DGeaorge 5PPG at 37% GPayton was 5PPG on 30% that’s 16 PPG on 30 % shooting with bench players playing just as bad

Chris Bosh definitely would have seen playing time at center and power forward because the front court only had one double figure scorer in Rasheed Wallace.

Yeap, My Celtics team can't get it done, lol

You right good thing this teams stars are young otherwise it may not end up in any championships and for the Jays it’s 5 overall but 2 altogether ever since they became All NBA type players. Had a good team in those runs and like the pistons are making changes to the roster after every end of the run. You could say the heat are similar making it to 2 finals but not winning any but I def see the comparison with these Celtics which ima fan of and the pistons

Reason why I have Tim Duncan below Shaq and Hakeem in my all time list. Hakeem and Shaq raised their level of play facing great defensive teams(1994 Knicks and 2001 Sixers) while Duncan always shot the ball like shit against Dominant defensive big men like Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace in the 2005 Finals. Duncan shot 41% against the 2005 Pistons but Shaq shot over 60% against them the previous year. Everyone always want to talk about Kobe shooting 6/24 vs the Celtics in 2010 game 7 but no one talks about Duncan shooting 10/27 vs the Pistons game 7 2005. So what does Duncan and the Spurs resort to, flopping as usual to get foul calls.

I would arguably say that game 7 2005 Nba Finals was more rigged than game 6 2002 WCF. The Pistons were screwed over worst than the Kings.

Duncan almost always got the best of Sheed--even going back to their ACC battles

😭😭💯💯💯💯💯

I hope you know that play was originally meant for manu to tie it but it left horray open. This was manus best year actually. We played a perfect game that for most part aside from timmy...you guy's we're the ONLY team I've seen actually get into a prime Duncan's head and literally made him scoreless in the o.t. he missed like ten or more free-throws If I remember it right. Thing is you weren't going to beat manu he was arguably the real m.v.p. of that entire season. He was incredible.