Link For part one kzfaq.infoxUV19gGKAr0?feature=share
@NicholasVonBusch Жыл бұрын
Idk where you're getting your info for point number 3 on the first video but operating a lever action in the prone position does less to your sight picture than a rifle with a 90 degree bolt throw.
@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 Жыл бұрын
Aww, for some reason I can't get the link to work....maybe it's something wrong with my phone. It frequently has trouble tapping on things like thumbs, read more, and comment, LoL
@dukecraig2402 Жыл бұрын
The 1891 Mosin Nagant was the first rifle to use stripper clips, not the 1898 Mauser. And any rifle that uses a stacked round magazine, like the 1895 Winchester, whether it's detachable or not is capable of being modified to use stripper clips. The reason that lever action rifles were passed over for bolt actions by the militaries of the world is because of their expense of manufacturing compared to bolt actions, 20% more expensive means 20% fewer rifles bought for the same amount of money, when equipping a million man military that means lever action rifles would cost a nation 1.2 times as much or that you would be 200,000 rifles short for the same amount of money. It's simple economics and nothing more.
@FatCokMcgee Жыл бұрын
How does it feel to like the taste of automotive glass? I
@rokkfel4999 Жыл бұрын
Hey love the vid I’m a huge bolt action fan boy …would you be willing to do a lil short about the krag Jorgensen I find it being neglected in most talks about bolt actions
@124thDragoon Жыл бұрын
Again, the lever action wasn’t really *replaced* by the bolt action. Most countries went straight from single shot rifles to bolt actions. Lever actions were largely an American luxury, and mostly in civilian hands.
@rj4590 Жыл бұрын
Lever action rifles typically are also more expensive to manufacture.
@Dominic1962 Жыл бұрын
Lever actions are essentially straight pull bolt actions with extra bits to make the lever actuate the bolt.
@124thDragoon Жыл бұрын
@@ronal8824 yep, by the time lever actions got strong enough to handle "military loads", bolt actions were already becoming the status quo. And smokeless powder was the new hotness.
@parkerpugh4572 Жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t say it was an American niche because the Russians and Ottomans used lever action in a military role just as much if not more than us. But tbf I also wouldn’t even say the bolt action even replaced the lever gun as it was never really implemented as a mainline infantry rifle (minus the Russian 1895)
@Dominic1962 Жыл бұрын
@@parkerpugh4572 The only reason the Russians used the m1895 Winchester was that it could be made it their caliber and they were absolutely desperate for rifles. There is no way they ever would have adopted it in the usual peace time trials process.
@the_buff_femboy Жыл бұрын
One reason that we switched is due to the fact if your lying down like in a trench or something you would have trouble with cocking your gun and still looking down your sight's bolt actions didn't have that problem
@richardelliott9511 Жыл бұрын
I dont believe anyone was lying down in any trench trying to shoot the enemy. Actually, shooting over the top of a trench would not be any problem for a lever action rifle.
@simonpowell2559 Жыл бұрын
I heard that somwere, is it an urban myth?
@tearex8688 Жыл бұрын
Or maybe because you can feed more rounds easier and have less hand movement along with stopping power and cheaper schematics.
@chadachwilliam5515 Жыл бұрын
Even as a lefty, I prefer a bolt action. Your right, having to get back into position and find a proper aim is impossible in a combat environment with a lever action. Yeah, I got to give it a reach around, but at least my aim point remains close to true as possible. Those seconds are life or death when you have OSOK. The lever action is a American tradition because it can be fired and reloaded with one hand while STILL HOLDING the reigns of a horse. That and a six shooter is the iconic cowboy set for trail blazing.
@andreispurim Жыл бұрын
For anyone wondering: yes, this appears to be one of the main takeaways from the Latvian Riflemen use of Winchesters M1895 in the First World War against the germans, one of the few parts of the eastern front that had trench warfare like in the west. "Blizzard of Souls", a book by veteran Alexander Grins, does mention in a small passage that most soldiers had a bullet wound in the shoulder for having to dislocate it up when prone or in some shallower trenches. If this is more of an exagerated myth or not I can't say exactly.
@freevbucks8019 Жыл бұрын
I love the part where he tells why they were replaced
@FuknKms Жыл бұрын
ikr? like, bruh, answer the damn question
@MichaelPoage666 Жыл бұрын
It's a weird video title to begin with. Replaced? What military used lever actions and then went to bolt action? I'm not aware of any.
@VintageWarfare Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelPoage666 several
@darryladams519 Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelPoage666 The US military did for a time.
@theapplekingdom5493 Жыл бұрын
Maybe read the title again.
@NycktheDyck Жыл бұрын
Don’t mean to be a Mauser snob or anything but I’m pretty sure the 1895 Mausers had a stripper clip cutout to ease in feeding the internal magazine with stripper clips. I believe even the Spanish 93s had them as well. Still though, I enjoy your videos!
@VintageWarfare Жыл бұрын
There are many little details like that in many different Mauser designs, the main point is that stripper clips came well after the adoption of bolt actions in general. Every comment like this adds context to people I encourage it!
@royjohnson465 Жыл бұрын
@@VintageWarfare ~Also in general another reason is because many years ago for military service a bolt-action "detachable box magazine" was better than 'VS' a "tubular magazine" which is 'no good' for military service as used in a lever-action. ~(Yes the Savage model 99 and Winchester 1895 were the exceptions many years ago). ~In my opinion the best lever-action ever made "in any year" was the: >>Browning BLR '81 stainless steel Takedown lever-action with a detachable box magazine, also comes in magnum cartridge models
@Cloudstrife112233 Жыл бұрын
I'll one up ya, on the Mauser snob part. The first Mauser rifle to sport stripper ckips and be adopted by a nation, was the Mauser model 1889, in Mauser's own 7.65x53mm cartridge (Mauser had zero involvement in the development of the 7.92x57mm cartridge, used in the 1888 commission rifle.
@rafaelperez-ep7wi Жыл бұрын
@@royjohnson465
@Dominic1962 Жыл бұрын
The stripper clip started with the m89/90/91 and continued through the m98. All smokeless powder Mausers used the stripper clip. It was a Mauser invention after all…
@maverickpaladin4155 Жыл бұрын
Whoa....hoss. Points of order. 1. Stripper clips were part of Mauser's rifles going back to 1891, and en bloc chargers go back to at least 1888. 2. The needle rifle, while technically a centerfire, was a paper cartridge with a percussion cap inside the paper wrapper. 3. Spitzer bullets came into common usage around 1907. Prior to that, the same cartridges had bottlenose projectiles. These are not to be confused with heavy, black powder cartridges like 45-70 and 11mm Mauser.
@robertdeen8741 Жыл бұрын
I thought the bolt replaced the Martini action mainly because it's stronger and easier hence cheaper to make.
@VintageWarfare Жыл бұрын
Correct for the most part, I address this in part 1
@DeanMk1 Жыл бұрын
the bolt in a bolt action rifle is likely a more complicated (and thus more expensive) piece to make, because not only do they house the firing mechanism, they also house the ejector. The Martini's "bolt" only held the spring and firing pin. The weak point on a Martini action was the hinge that the "bolt" pivoted on. Even with a movable block to help support the hinge, that hinge is still exposed to the pressure of the round being fired, so eventually, it was going to fail.
@Azaqa Жыл бұрын
@@DeanMk1 if I recall correctly bolt actions were much easier to mass produce due to less assembly and manufacturing being necessary
@alphastronghold715 Жыл бұрын
Bolt actions are not cheaper than single shot rifles, but the drastic increase in fire rate is impossible to ignore. The reason they chose bolt over lever action however, IS due to a bolt action being much cheaper to manufacture than a lever action due to being a less complex design.
@daddydanks6660 Жыл бұрын
The biggest misconception is that lever actions were never really adopted in the first place. The bolt action replaced single shot breechloading rifles, not lever actions
@atlas4733 Жыл бұрын
Both of these are dependent on internal magazine vs tube magazine. I believe you can make either on either platform (like the Lebel bolt action tube fed or Browning's mag fed Winchester 1895 lever action, that the Russians used a ton of in ww1). The transition from one action to the next was about at the same time as the transition from one feed system to the next.
@Relyt345 Жыл бұрын
The Russians bought quite a few lever guns in 7.62x54r with five round internal mags that took stripper clips from the US during WW1.
@rolanddeschain6265 Жыл бұрын
On this note, why do manufacturers not understand that a magazine-fed lever action chambered for .223 or 7.62 and takes AR/AK magazines would sell like fucking hotcakes? Put a couple attachment rails and a sling on it and you have the ultimate sleeper defense rifle for semi-auto restrictions. With assault weapons bans permanently on the horizon people would gobble up a modernized pump action or lever action rifle. Actually now that I'm thinking about it a pump action that takes AR mags would be even cooler someone fuckin make it real pls
@atlas4733 Жыл бұрын
@@rolanddeschain6265 After 2 mins of searching, there are lever actions in 5.56 and .308, both with low capacity mags, and I saw a thumbnail with one with a larger mag.
@Spudmuffinz Жыл бұрын
@@rolanddeschain6265 pretty sure ruger makes a bolt action rifle that accepts ar mags edit, so at least they are half way there
@justalurker3489 Жыл бұрын
@@rolanddeschain6265 Remington 7615 is a pump 5.56
@vsevolodd391 Жыл бұрын
Russian Winchester m1895: Am i joke for you?
@richardelliott9511 Жыл бұрын
it's my opinion that if Winchester had adopted the 1895 for stripper clips at its introduction instead of waiting for the Russian contract, the gun could have had much longer legs with the military.
@Dominic1962 Жыл бұрын
The only reason the Russians bought them is because they were so desperate for guns. They never would have adopted it outright.
@Gunsbeerfreedom87 Жыл бұрын
@@richardelliott9511 it wouldn't have. It's a nice gun but not a good fit for a mass use infantry rifle.
@DefunctYompelvert Жыл бұрын
@@richardelliott9511 likewise with the lee rifles. Took from 1889-1902 for them to finally put a charger guide on the thing, they didn’t perfect it either until 1908.
@richardelliott9511 Жыл бұрын
@Obscurelookinblokeinnit thanks for clarifying that for me. I had been thinking that they had the split charger bridge model during the 2nd Boer War. The Brits being so late to adopt charger loading does take the onus off of the Krag and the 95 Winchester for not being charger loaded as it would not yet have been considered the defacto military standard for a few more years yet.
@eeejer2191 Жыл бұрын
As I recall, bolt actions became the miltary rifle because they could be fired in the prone position easier.
@wozn7195 Жыл бұрын
Also less metal was needed. And in a war resource/price is everything - looking at you thompson 🤨
@pipebombpete.6861 Жыл бұрын
Bolt actions are also more rugged and reliable.while also being cheaper.
@zacharywranovsky Жыл бұрын
Also, the Russians contracted a Winchester lever action that fed from stripper clips if I’m not mistaken
@extinctgraph9150 Жыл бұрын
You are in fact correct
@ukaszwalczak1154 Жыл бұрын
Close, it was however a box fed one.
@Pratt_ Жыл бұрын
The Winchester Model 1895 and the Lebel are also a good proof that stripper clips weren't the issue (the former being a lever action using stripper clips and the later being a bolt action with a tubular magazine).
@Hunglikeagrimsmo Жыл бұрын
Pure simplicity is why it replaced the lever action
@carlsteffens Жыл бұрын
When you say replace that implies that a lot of countries and militaries were actually using lever action rifles as a standard rifle which most weren't most went from the breach block to the bolt action, level action rifle weren't normal chambered in large caliber rifle rounds, but in pistol calibers
@stevenbaker8184 Жыл бұрын
well the fact that most militaries never formally adopted lever action by any military wholesale, the Henry the Spencer and the 1895 Winchester remain the only lever action rifles adopted in any way. Even the US never formally adopted a lever action. the Trapdoor Springfield rifle remained the standard rifle from 1867 til 1895. The Remington rolling block, and falling block rifles were standards in foreign countries.
@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 Жыл бұрын
Since then, sticking a bit of nylon over the pointy tip prevents accidental discharge while in the tube due to pointy tip possibly striking the primer of the bullet ahead of it. However, I'd say the range of motion and free space needed while cycling a lever action in certain tactical positions is partly why bolt action replaced them, because they are so much tighter vertically. Also, it's probably easier to engineer a thicker stronger block into a bolt action than on a lever -thus allowing for much higher pressure loads. But, I could be wrong...
@phillipallen3259 Жыл бұрын
Early bolt action rifles were in fact single shot rifles. Bolt action rifles were often chosen by militaries because accuracy was important at one point. The US military chose the bolt actions over lever actions because they were afraid if a soldier was able to shoot rapidly he would shoot up all his ammunition without hitting his target. This was the mentality until just before ww2 the British held on to their bolt actions until the 1960's for similar reasons.
@MikeDCWeld Жыл бұрын
The first bolt actions with internal magazines adopted by militaries had magazine cutoffs for exactly that reason. Soldiers were required to fire in sigle-shot mode until commanded to switch the magazine on by their officer.
@ObamaoZedong Жыл бұрын
This is a similar reason to why in the mid to mid-late 20th century the sks was preferred over the ak by resistance commanders because the reduced capacity and lack of full auto forced the inexperienced soldiers to aim better.
@jarvy251 Жыл бұрын
" This was the mentality until just before ww2 the British held on to their bolt actions until the 1960's for similar reasons." wh-what??? First of all, the SLR entered service in 1954, so that isn't true. They had their bullpup EM2s in limited service in '51 while they waited in vain for the Americans to be reasonable about which cartridge should be the NATO standard. The British held on to bolt action rifles after WWI because like everyone else in europe, they were devastated by the war and had no stomach for more military spending, so their semiauto rifle programs were sidelined. By the time WW2 came about, those programs were dropped entirely (the french and the soviets did likewise) to pump out as many proven rifles as they could to fight a war that had already begun. The Americans were fortunate because being "late to the war" they had just barely enough time to get the kinks worked out of the Garand that they could have it in full production in time for mobilization, and even that was a close-run thing. Lots of americans were fighting the japanese with bolt-action 1903s early on because that was all they had!
@danqarious4733 Жыл бұрын
Cost of weapon production and ease of repairability come to mind
@slc308 Жыл бұрын
En bloc clips were developed early to mid 1880s. And while spitzer bullets weren't developed until later, you could have a bottleneck cartridge easier, allowing for a smaller diameter bullet with a bigger powder charge and therefore increased pressure and range of the firearm over traditional cartridges developed before the use of bolt actions.
@markgoggin2014 Жыл бұрын
Stripper clips sound a lot more fun than they are
@swojal1493 Жыл бұрын
People also forget that lever guns were never really fully serviced in militaries at all
@JeffyLube Жыл бұрын
The us army didnt formally adopt a lever action gun, although they did like them. They chose the bolt action because it would be hard to cock (giggity) the lever action from some positions whereas the bolt action could be fired standing, laying or any other position
@cnppreactorno.4965 Жыл бұрын
Bolt actuations (especially early ones like the Dryse) are much less complicated, and can be reloaded much easier, and did not have magazines. We could actually see this in many countries, which were extremely hesitant to adopt magazine fed guns, partially because they were afraid soldiers would blow through all of their ammo extremely quickly and ineffectively
@stevewort Жыл бұрын
I recall seeing somewhere that the British were considering a lever action around the time of the Boer War, but after they had several rounds detonate in the tube magazine (caused by pressure in the primer from the top of the round behind it) they decided that lever action was not safe for the rigors of military service?
@ternarycode Жыл бұрын
plus there was the Winchester M1895 which was lever-action but accepted stripper clips and early bolt-action rifles like the Lebel M1886 which had to be painstakingly single-loaded
@811brian Жыл бұрын
Two reasons. One, easier to fire accurately from prone position. Two, easier to manufacture.
@TheBaioken Жыл бұрын
I only learnt why Not but the title said it will tell me why
@josephmontanaro2350 Жыл бұрын
There's also lever actions that can take stripper clips like the Russian contract Winchesters that also could use spritzer cartridges
@nolanrussell8238 Жыл бұрын
He straight up didn’t tell us why it was replaced if it were replaced at all
@jarvy251 Жыл бұрын
Can't replace something that was never adopted
@digitalscribbler68 Жыл бұрын
Stripper clips were in use with bolt actions well before the 98K Mauser. And it seems to be common knowledge by this point that the American experience in the Spanish-American was the motivating factor in adopting the modern M1903 to replace old trapdoor Springfields and side-loading Krags -- the US Army didn't use lever action rifles.
@australiananarchist480 Жыл бұрын
There are also examples of box-mag fed (no issues with spitzer rounds) lever-actions, that could take stripper clips. Namely, the Winchester 1895 Russian Contract rifles. Chambered in 7.62x54R, had box mags, and took stripper clips, as required by the Russian Imperial Army.
@CherryRhubarb00 Жыл бұрын
Stripper clips were around for nearly 10 years before the 98. The Mauser 1889, 1890, and 1891 used them.
@kobeh6185 Жыл бұрын
Actually the first stripper clip was on the Mauser 1889, this was carried over on later Mauser rifles, including the famous Gewehr 98. En bloc clips are even older.
@micahmurphy45468 ай бұрын
I always assumed it was complexity that kept lever guns from the trenches. More bits and moving parts for mud and grime to get into
@SkyFlyWhite Жыл бұрын
that Carcano Ammo flex cut deep
@theduke7539 Жыл бұрын
the biggest thing was action strength. In the 1870s, the vast majority of lever actions were brass receivers, but some were made of a protosteel. Steel did exist obviously, but it was really hard to make in large scale and so it was used rather sparingly. Gun barrels by that time were already steel. but receivers arent barrels. Receivers have complex shapes and can require hundreds of hours if shaped by hand out of steel. But if you cast a receiver out of brass, you can finish shaping it by hand in only 5 or 10 hours and with a lot less skill. This mean lever actions were only capable of being chambered in much weaker cartridges. The advantage of the bolt action was that because the receiver is mostly round, its much easier to make out of steel. You simply forge a round bar, forge in the impression of where you want to remove material, and then drill out the center and proceed to file away until you reach the desired shape, youre still looking at around 20 to 25 hours to make a complete receiver, however, compare that to the 10 hours of a lever action with a brass receiver that can only be chambered in small rounds, or the hypothetical steel receiver lever action that could chamber large rounds but would take hundreds of hours to finish. And it really wasnt until the early 1890s when steel production and shaping became cheap enough that an all steel lever action could be made easily for the military and civilian market, which culminated in the Winchester 1894, 1895, and the Marlin 1896. But by that point, bolt actions were even easier to make and so still much cheaper than a steel lever action. This also came at the time where military doctrine was changing. By the 1890s, line formations were dead, no one used them, repeating arms and the recent invention of smokeless powder made line formations obsolete. Some militaries were sort of in this grey zone where all they had to draw on in this new age of warfare, (keep in mind, the Maxim gun was invented in 1884) was light infantry tactics left over from the various wars of the period, so you had entire armies of light infantry. Well heres your problem, light infantry found themselves shooting in all positions. Line infantry only fought standing or kneeling. Light infantry could be standing, kneeling, prone, propped up on cover, leaning against walls, etc. All this made the lever action less useful as it required the user to either lift themselves off the ground to cycle it, or they had to take themselves off target and rotate the gun or themselves to cycle it. all while the bolt action allowed a soldier to not move at all. And finally, reliability. While both systems are manually operated, there are far fewer parts in a bolt action than there are in a lever action. Lever actions have opening on 3 sides, you have gaps around the loading gate, the ejection port, and the lever itself. All this makes it very vulnerable to mud and dirt, while a bolt action is relatively sealed with the only opening being the ejection port and the trigger. The bolt action beat the lever action because at the time, it made sense. Now a days, both guns can be made equally as cheap with modern manufacturing and theres not really a caliber you can out in a bolt gun that you cant put in a lever gun. and with semi and full autos having long sense replaced the bolt action in military service, its much more up to personal preference now.
@kananmammadli6714 Жыл бұрын
There are a few reasons why lever action guns were not adapted by militaries 1. They are more expensive and more difficult to mass produce 2. More moving parts, thus more diffucult to maintain and more prone to malfunction 3. Not exactly easy to use while crawling 4. Related to part 2, takes longer to disassemble, which is important as what soldiers did with their bolt action weapons if they had to leave them and not allow the enemy to use them was to take out the bolt and yeet it somewhere it can't easily be found.
@varietywiarrior Жыл бұрын
Lever actions can also use stripper clips if they're the cowboy type action, there the breach is on top.
@sigurdurmarolafsson4183 Жыл бұрын
I have seen that the lever action was also "better" while the shooter í on the ground ( as in easier to use while on the "belly" and "hiding/being behind cover).
@acester86 Жыл бұрын
The Gewehr 1888 used stripper clips, so did the Mosin Nagant and Lee Metford
@AstroRayGun Жыл бұрын
The lever action wasn't really replaced by anything because it wasn't ever adopted as a rifle for any military except in very minor and limited instances. However, I maintain the fact that lever action rifles combined with modern tactics would make for a better weapon than a bolt action gun. The main thing holding back the lever action from being implemented was lack of willingness to update tactics.
@initiative_general2227 Жыл бұрын
Plus, the Winchester 1895 existed. A lever-action with a internal magazine. The Russians used these rifles in their 7.62x54r during the first world war. However, it prove cheaper to build bolt-actions over lever-action due to bolt-actions being more durable and easier to make.
@MMRaptorF22 Жыл бұрын
“Lever guns fell out of use because of spitzer bullets and stripper clips” Winchester 1895: “allow me to introduce myself”
@telesniper2 Жыл бұрын
Savage 99 was even better, with detachable box mags
@azrael9016 Жыл бұрын
It is also worth noting that if they wanted to make lever action rifles accept clips, they could, case in point Win Model 1895 made for Russian Empire chambered in 7.62x54 had built guide for mosin stripper clips. The guides were pretty easy and cheap to make so its a no brainer to say stripper clips are one of the reasons.
@Timber_LXG_5 Жыл бұрын
Well also the more durable action for higher pressure rounds, shooting prone with a lever gun is more likely to get dirt in the action as well.
@coltknight3945 Жыл бұрын
Lever guns didn't see large scale adoption in the US military because the difficulty reloading in prone position and military brass thought troops would waste ammo if they had so many in the magazine. Lever guns were really only adopted by mounted fighter forces and guerilla fighters.
@darryladams519 Жыл бұрын
Cost, ease of cleaning and repair in the field. Prone position shooting was improved shooting a bolt action rifle. Less movement in the body of the person using it. There's several reasons why that contributed
@zacharyrollick6169 Жыл бұрын
And don't forget that the Russian contract Winchester 1895 lever actions used stripper clips.
@siegehammer63 Жыл бұрын
Between the increased cost, fitting, and complexity of a lever, it was more difficult to produce a locking system capable of containing the new and more powerful cartridges comingnat the turn of the century. Between increased range, simplicity, reliability, accuracy, and reduced cost, most European powers never really made the jump from single shots to levers.
@MilkT0ast Жыл бұрын
Guns aside, whoever does your laundry, does it well
@tomwaters5651 Жыл бұрын
they even made the Winchester 1895 for stripper clips and Spitzer rounds
@dwatts64 Жыл бұрын
I was always told the biggest reason for the bolt action becoming the dominant one is the same reason the cavalry troops preferred the breech loaders, trap door rifles. Because they didn't give from horseback, they fought from prone fighting positions. With a lever gun you often have to roll to the side to work the action in a prone position, or at the very least rotate the rifle, which took your barrel off target or exposed your position. It also put moving parts of the action down in the dirt. Bolt actions don't require you to reposition to rechamber, their action is up out of the dirt, then they figure out they're faster for reloads, you can use spitzer rounds, and going into WW1 is all trench warfare where lever actions would've been a worse option than bolts in trench combat. Add to all of that the higher chamber pressures you can get with a bolt gun, they're easier to manufacture, easier to maintain, it's really just a whole ton of reasons that in a combat environment, a bolt action is better. With all that said, when I go pushing deer in the brush, or just need a good wilderness gun, I'll take the lever every time because of it's size, weight, and handling. But I'm not in combat, do I imagine my opinion would change if I were.
@verfugbarkite Жыл бұрын
Sustained fire rates over the course of a days action probably fairly similar. Especially considering Ammunition supply pre-petrol engine would be pretty limited.
@jacobmccandles1767 Жыл бұрын
The ability to cycle the action while prone, and reliability.
@Adierit Жыл бұрын
my guess would be much easier to mass produce given how simple a bolt mechanism is vs a lever action one not to mention how lever actions had a tendency to bind if they weren't worn in or tolerances weren't right
@catherineharris4746 Жыл бұрын
💡Pointed bullets resting on the primer could make the bullet in front explode in the tube👍
@malekiththewitchking2799 Жыл бұрын
Russian Empire actually ended up using a spitzer cartridge fed by stripper clips in a lever action. So the idea that the idea that the spitzer cartridge and the stripper cartridge is already flawed there.
@Gunsbeerfreedom87 Жыл бұрын
Bud.... do you think 1915 and 1870 are the same time period?
@malekiththewitchking2799 Жыл бұрын
@@Gunsbeerfreedom87 I'm sorry I thought we were talking about spitzer cartridges, which were first introduced in 1898, as well as stripper clips, which were first used in 1889. But yes please educate me on this.
@malekiththewitchking2799 Жыл бұрын
If you want to go even further we were using en-blocs since the mid 1880's.
@Gunsbeerfreedom87 Жыл бұрын
@@malekiththewitchking2799 No you're talking about the Russian emergency use of the Winchester in 19-fucking-15, a near 5 decades after they adopted the bolt action Berdan in 1870. By the time the 1895 was introduced every major military had been on bolt actions for at least one, and typically over two decades. They were non-starters.
@lwilliams3285 Жыл бұрын
Also was the requirement for soldiers to be able to effectively fire from the prone position. Lever action rifles made this more difficult.
@andybreglia9431 Жыл бұрын
This may be a duplicate, but the text editor somehow lost the original. Bolt action rifles can generally handle higher pressure cartridges than typical lever action rifles. Winchester produced a lever action in the mid 1990s that fed from a stacked magazine and chambered for first .30-03, then .30-06. Producing them in quantities REQUIRED for general issue would have been prohibitively expensive. This was before the 16th amendment enabled the income tax that enabled government to siphon huge quantities of money from the economy using methods that before this amendment would have been unconstitutional. Off the top of my head, violates fifth amendment prohibition against self incrimination. Normally, government has to prove you guilty. Here, YOU have to prove yourself innocent. Anyway, lever action rifles were auxiliary if not standard issue during the Indian wars, usually in .44 Winchester. Siamese Mausers that can feed rimmed cartridges can be rebarreled and chambered for .45-70 cartridges loaded to pressures that would blow up trapdoor Springfields and damage 1886 Winchesters and 1895 Marlins.
@txgunguy2766 Жыл бұрын
The Winchester model 1895 could be loaded with Spitzer rounds from stripper clips.
@behindthespotlight7983 Жыл бұрын
It’s really the tale of two applications: opening the Western United States and lessons learned by European & American military post-American Civil War & Franco Prussian War. Late 19th Century, many cowboys, ranchers, lawmen & calvary units opted for lever actions that shot the same round as their pistol. Aside from a few purchases on the civilian market and rare pictures of the Spanish American War I cannot think of any 20th Century US Army or Marines deploying with a lever action carbine.
@ginger7288 Жыл бұрын
I just started collecting with my first surplus rifle. Got a Yugo Mauser m24/47 for $400. Same shop has an m44 mosin for $350 and a carcano for $250. Going to get those soon.
@zacharyrollick6169 Жыл бұрын
Welcome to the club. I have the same Yugo. Does yours have the turned down bolt as well?
@ginger7288 Жыл бұрын
@@zacharyrollick6169 Yeah
@zacharyrollick6169 Жыл бұрын
@@ginger7288 What I find interesting about it is that it's a modification. It was clearly originally a straight bolt that was later bent.
@alexanderbarkman7832 Жыл бұрын
I have a lever action with spitzer rounds, but it doesn's have a tube magazine. It can also be loaded with stripper clips. It's a Savage 99. It was introduced in late 1800s so around the same time armies started to adopt bolt action rifles.
@kospencer1 Жыл бұрын
Lever actions were never replaced because it never caught on😂😂😂
@TheArklyte Жыл бұрын
Wasn't Winchester 1895 Russian both using vertical magazine ie not affected by spitzer bullets hitting primers of other bullets AND had a quick loader too(not sure if it was clip or not)? The version I heard is also connected to it. People call it the high end of lever actions. Bolt action provides more solid lock up and thus can use more powerful ammo. So for the time when military believed that way forward is somehow bigger loads and longer barrels, they chose that option. Backwards Napoleonic War era like thinking of having line battles in the future that led to so many casualties in WWI \/(-_-)\/
@charlesuplifted5216 Жыл бұрын
Stripper clips did come on lever guns 1895 Winchester Russian contracts come to mind It was because they were far more expensive, easier to jam in mud, and harder to work lying prone
@FLVCTVAT_NEC_MERGITVR Жыл бұрын
The Prussian Dreyse was a paper cartridge, breech loading rifle, not really centre fire in the modern sense of the term.
@TheDrakanMaster124 Жыл бұрын
Also there were lever-action made by Winchester in the late 1800s that used stripper clips
@nicholashodges201 Жыл бұрын
You left out the part about lever action rifles never really getting adopted on a wide scale militarily. They were great civilian rifles, but they had too many issues that would inconvenience a hunter, but get a soldier killed. The tubes were very easily dented when dropped, mechanically complicated with some fragile/finicky parts and needed actual tools for cleaning & maintenance. And in the case of Winchester rifles you could loose your rear sight if you dropped of banged it the wrong way. By the time metallurgy & machining could correct for these issues the bolt action had already become the basic infantry weapon would wide.
@nachyomoney3598 Жыл бұрын
Never understood why pump-action rifles never gained more popularity.
@thomashogan9196 Жыл бұрын
It seems clear a bolt action rifle is simpler to produce, load, relode, fire and maintain. What eludes me is why the British adopted the Martini-Henry single shot lever action when the American Henry's magazine lever action was already in production.
@Grizzlytactics91 Жыл бұрын
if im not mistaken it was because the bolt action could be more easily operated in the prone.
@adinprasetio Жыл бұрын
Thats what i was also thinking of, turn out theres still more ✌️
@stalinbeballin9711 Жыл бұрын
Besides, Lever Actions could be modified to accept stripper clips. The primary example? Russian Contract Model 1895 Winchesters, which were made to accept 1891 Mosin 7.62x54mmR five round stripper clips.
@punisher3167 Жыл бұрын
Don’t forget about the 1891 Argentine 7.65x53 Mauser.
@sniperfreak223 Жыл бұрын
Stripper clips came about with the Mauser 1889.
@Jcod_ Жыл бұрын
I thought it was mostly a complexity and price thing. It is a lot easier to churn out the huge numbers of guns needed for the scale of conflicts in Europe if they were bolt actions over lever action. I also imagine lever actions are harder to maintain.
@telesniper2 Жыл бұрын
Use of spitzer bullets in the Winchester 1895 or the Savage 99 is no problem. Also, if they REALLY wanted to use spitzer bullets in a lever action that still used a tube magazine (with the technology of the day), they could have done it using a rimfire cartridge. Of course we now have LEVERevolution
@colton72395 Жыл бұрын
There were lever actions that too loaded and used striped clips one of my dream guns did it a Winchester model 1895
@kickofftheboot Жыл бұрын
Bolt actions are more simple to design. Especially, if you are trying to design a lever action to accommodate a longer cartridge. John Browning showed it can be done but the design ends up far more complex.
@davidjames2788 Жыл бұрын
Prime also forget that the 1895 Winchester had a stripper clip guide.
@Lawdagreat Жыл бұрын
Summing it up, it was the type of ammunition and the fact that if you’re prone the weapon isn’t off target as long ..🎉
@corytebay3742 Жыл бұрын
There are several examples of "spritzer safe" tubular magazine rifles (Lebel - spiral magazine tube and case head grooving that kept the point from the proceeding cartridge's primer), and one should likely mention the 1895 Winchester that was sold to the Russian empire - magazine fed lever action rifle that took stripper clips (same stripper clips and cartridge for the Mosin Nagant - 7.62x54R). Good video!
@SimonKHoak-ec6cc5 ай бұрын
I'm no expert , far from it . But I thought the bolt action was a simpler , stronger , more reliable mechanism , that could handle more powerful rounds . While the lever action was faster , it was a more complicated , weaker mechanism , that couldn't handle the more powerful military rounds of the day , and was more prone to failure .
@rioyr6210 Жыл бұрын
I remember the Lebel 1886 ammo having tapered rims in order to have spitzer bullets but also have a tubular magazine
@cheese6039 Жыл бұрын
Could've sworn there was a lever gun that fired rifle rounds like that spitzer projectile
@johnmullholand2044 Жыл бұрын
Some of the Winchester '95 lever guns were sent to the USSR during the First World War, and we're probably used in the Second World War in a reserve capacity. These were chambered in the Russian 7.62x54 mm, with a spritzer bullet.
@doublepiedavid8908 Жыл бұрын
Plus, you can make a lever gun work with both of those, it just wasn’t needed
@carduran_1154 Жыл бұрын
Main reason: is way cooler chambering a round in a bolt action that a lever
@KloPoon Жыл бұрын
I've heard that bolt is easier to fire while laying down. That's another reason why they switched
@BigBossTussBall Жыл бұрын
In militaries, bolt actions replaced lever actions because it's easier to go prone and cycle a bolt action than a lever action.
@jarvy251 Жыл бұрын
Incorrect, because the vast majority of militaries never adopted lever action to begin with -including the americans. They went from rifled muskets to springfield trapdoor single shots, skipping over the lever actions entirely. The real reason was cost, and that lever actions weren't strong enough for the cartridges the Army wanted to fire.
@petrosspetrosgali Жыл бұрын
I’m confident that only one major factor was involved; money. Well two as the bolt action is much more simple and easier and quicker to field strip.
@frank6587 Жыл бұрын
To add, Lever actions are way harder and more expensive to mass produce compared to a bolt action.
@Arbitraryshoe49 Жыл бұрын
Bolt Action laughs while cycling a round in prone position.
@robertsummers3386 Жыл бұрын
There is ONE lever action that uses stripper clips. It's the Winchester M1895 and it was marketed to the US and Europe before Russia decided to buy it. It didn't last long though. The Mosin-Nagant was overall a better weapon.
@Tls1133 Жыл бұрын
Dude, that 1871/84 is so0o0o0o clean, how even? lol
@backlash00 Жыл бұрын
If you are saying the single shot bolt action rifle replaced the lever action repeating rifle because it was a superior weapon I am calling BS. And in todays lever rifles it is accepted that a floating barrel, no forehand contact, is best. Not that long wood thing.
@haravindkrishnan1101 Жыл бұрын
Bolt action easy to maintain and less malfunctioning .can be used in prone position but lever action is difficult to use in prone position
@POTUSJimmyCarter Жыл бұрын
Besides, both of those problems are easily overcome in lever-action rifles, for example the Winchester '95.
@ballbender9thousand944 Жыл бұрын
its funny how the French Lebel use a 10 round tube with a flat tip Round and later the pointy tip got introduce so they just come up with the idea of tilting the round so it wouldn't detonate while reloading
@johndoe5432 Жыл бұрын
You didn't actually explain why the bolt action replaced the lever action though?