Thank you for making this content! There’s a great C&Rsenal vid on this gun. I’d suggest them for quick research on anything WW1 era. m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pbh_p9eTuNHFqYk.html

Hence use of all-brass shells in ww1 and ww2?

Sorry, I’d already posted by the time I saw your comment. Great video!

I caught 1 or 2 l. Respect.

@@dennisyoung4631 they had paper ones early on in ww1 not sure if they corrected it by war time

Great show as usual. In relation to the comment about shells made with paper. An old mate of mine, sadly passed now, told me of similar experiences in the Malayan emergency.

Thanks for highlighting this much appreciated 🙏

The paper shells before 1917 were impregnated with a wax so they really weren't as bad as some say. They did have some problems because in hotter climates the wax would get soft. After 1917 the government changed to the brass case with the 00.

Indeed, the gun was very popular with raiding parties AND in dry conditions. When rain/mud prevailed, many troops stopped using it. By the time brass shells finally arrived, the war was over. A bit like the BAR...

Magazine tube filled with the wet cardboard, mushy gun powder and lead pellets

The reason marines used m97 shotguns in ww2 was because the army didn’t want them not because they were necessary that good

@@critterjon4061 Oh I See thanks for the Info dude

@@critterjon4061 There's absolutely no truth to that whatsoever. The Army and Marine's both used Model 97's along with every other model of civilian produced shotgun that was being made at the outbreak of the war including single shot shotguns that were used for guard duty including guarding ammo stockpiles in war zones. There's examples of all models of pump shotguns that were used by both the Army and Marine's during the war, there's countless pictures of US Army personnel in the Pacific with both WW1 and WW2 vintage produced Model 97 shotguns. Pictures of both Marine's and Army personnel using Model 97's and various other models of pump shotguns in WW2 in both the Pacific and Europe can be found in Bruce Canfield's book A Collector's Guide to U.S. Military Shotguns.

They were quite popular with SOG in Vietnam

But what type of pouches do they use to store the shotgun shells? Is it the standard issue cartridge belt or pouches for shotgun shells since I saw a picture on the internet of a marine wielding a trench gun while wearing a standard issue cartridge belt and another picture of them having some kind of pouch on their belts carrying the shells

Oh i just thought that it was just very violent for wounds

They're not game animals?

@@some_humvee8466 Well yeah, obviously not, but if your only exposure/perception to shotguns was as a tool for hunting game, it wouldn't be that hard to feel extremely disrespected if your enemy started using shotguns against your men

Not as disrespectful as sparying people with chlorine gas like insects lol

I always thought that it is also quite a bit more of a tool to make one suffer. At range, being hit by a 8mm round from a rifle can kill quickly, but the shotgun will generally hurt but not kill. But I do believe that using poison gas, shrapnel, fire and even blunt force weapons kinda throws the notion of 'clean killing' out the window

Too add to this, brass military shotshells weren’t available in any appreciable quantities until the last month or two of the Great War, and even then they had some issues due to rushed manufacturing. It was only by the beginning of the Second World War that brass buckshot military ammo was widely available and totally reliable.

@@MaxwellAerialPhotography They weren't "rushed into production", full brass length shot shells had been being produced for years before WW1 in all shot sizes from buckshot to birdshot all the way back to the old west, the reason the US Military started out with the wax impregnated paper shells in WW1 is simply because they were cheaper. The main problem with the wax impregnated paper shells wasn't misfires as most people incorrectly assume, the problem was them swelling up in the magazine tube and hanging up in it causing them not to feed, Model 97's whether a trench or riot gun require tools to disassemble the magazine tube prohibiting the user from being able to clear the weapon, once the problem was identified the Army quickly ordered the all brass hull shot shells to remedy the problem, contrary to what some people have written in the comments section of this video the all brass shot shells did see service in France before the end of WW1. As is typical with the Army it quite often forgets the lessons it learned in the previous war and at the beginning of WW2 it made the same mistake by purchasing wax impregnated paper hull shot shells for use, and just like with WW1 as soon as they identified the problem all brass shot shells were procured and rushed into service.

So nobody had the idea to wax the paper shells?

@@Gieszkanne They were wax impregnated.

@@dukecraig2402 that only does so much when you are living in a nearly aquatic environment of rain and mud for weeks on end.

It also does appear with it's Bayonet affixed, in the horror anthology series "Tales from the Crypt" in a 1991 episode set during WW1. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bc9-f650zeDdn2Q.html

@@williamlydon2554, thanks for the link! I'm gonna watch it now, I love "Tales from the Crypt"! I also love the .45, that's what my concealed carry weapon is chambered in.

Model 1897 shotguns procured during the Phillipine Campaign were not official military issue, they were purchased privately by individual soldiers and sometimes with unit funds. General Pershing first had pump shotguns issued to troops during the time he spent chasing Poncho Villa around in Mexico in 1916, although not with the bayonet lug/handguard adaptor. Once he was named commander of the American Expeditionary Force for the US's involvement in WW1 he task shotgun manufacturers with outfitting pump shotguns with a way to mount a bayonet and have a heatshield to protect the shooters off-hand from being burned by a hot barrel during bayonet exercises. Not mentioned in this video is the other type of pump shotgun that saw service in WW1 alongside the Model 1897 Winchester in both trench and riot configurations, the Model 10 Remington, it had a bayonet lug very similar to the Winchester's but instead of having a perforated metal handguard that was riveted directly to the bayonet lug it had a wooden handguard, the backside of the bayonet lug had a sheet metal piece on it that had a lip that the front of the wooden handguard fit into in a very similar manner to how the front of the handguard of a M1903 or M1917 rifle fits into it's front band, this makes sense since Remington was making the M1917 rifle (previous to that the P14 British version) and would naturally fashion fitting a handguard onto a shotgun in a manner they were already doing. Model 10 Remington trenchguns that are intact are exceedingly rare, it was found during the war that the wooden handguard's on them broke far more easily than the metal ones on the Winchester's so after the war Army Depots usually cut the barrels off of them even with where the backside of the bayonet lug thus making them into strictly riot guns for MP and guard duty use, along with them being surplused out to prisons and police forces. Also not mentioned in this video is the fact that both of the types of trenchguns used the US 1917 bayonet that fit the M1917 rifle and not the M1905 bayonet that fit the M1903 rifle, it was deemed that since ⅔rds of the troops would actually have the M1917 rifle as opposed to the M1903 and since Winchester and Remington were both already making the M1917 bayonet because they were both making the M1917 rifle it made more sense to use it on the shotguns. As late as the Vietnam War the US government still was having new production M1917 style bayonets made for service since even the trenchguns made during WW2 still mounted the M1917 bayonet.

@@williamlydon2554 Good eye and I remember seeing that episode when it came out. However that particular Model 97 is incorrect for being in WW1, it's a WW2 manufactured Winchester 97. For WW1 Model 1897 Winchester shotguns were procured in 2 forms, "trenchguns" which were made on solid frame receivers and standard police "riot guns" which were built on take down receivers that were used for guard duty and not front line use, trenchguns were actually built on standard police riot gun solid frame actions since the bayonet lug/handguard assembly negated the take down feature. By WW2 Winchester no longer offered Model 97's with the solid frame receiver so all WW2 era Model 97 trenchguns were made on take down receivers even though once again the take down feature is negated once a bayonet lug/handguard assembly is mounted. The shotgun in that show is a take down receiver which makes it a WW2 produced Model 97, also during WW1 the correct name was Winchester Model 1897, by WW2 Winchester had shortened it to just Model 97.

Its in the rear window of a pickup truck. Then a 1911 pistol is removed from the hands of a dead civilian

It was on the bumper sticker of a truck I think as the Soviet Soldier was taking it from the dead man.

Well... they still can't have my gun unless they pry it from my cold dead fingers. Art imitates life.

Which makes no sense since if such uprising occur, they would almost instantly lose since no one in their right mind would support it (at least openly) TL;DR Only idiots would think that a bunch of rebel militia can win against a fully equipped modern army, which more than likely would have some international support

@@AHappyCub... read a history book, kid.

Lol definitely sends a strong message

Badass

@@nickolsen316 Yes, she is!!! (To protect her two kids, and herself, I doubt there'll be a split second of hesitation before someone gets to see "Momma Bear in all of her glory!")

Oops good catch. Still trying to up my editing game 🙏

Chiquita, hey baby

Yep, and that solid frame police riot gun that Lee Marvin handles in The Professionals is the cats meow.

in my opinion, the model 37 is the best pump ever made

Dragons breath is just terrifying. Shooting fire? Goddamn, I think I agree with the Germans.

@@diegorincon4673 Yeah, more of a novelty, I remember seeing a video where they started a fire and it almost got out of control.

@@djolley61 was it the FPS Russia one were they accidentally set the hay bales on fire?

@@diegorincon4673 No, it was in the U.S. somewhere. Been a while since I watched it.

@@djolley61, I had some flechettes. Nasty against soft tissue.

That's the one with Hit Girl in it! I wanted see it but I forgot about it, thanks for the reminder!

Thanks for the reference, first I've heard of that and I'll definitely be checking it out. 👍

I thought it was good until she started climbing on the underside of the plane lol

I have one that I found used, at a sporting guns store in Davison, Michigan. It's factory riot length, has a reproduction heat-shield/lug, and as non-factory sling on the stock. Serial puts it as 1947, lacks the armory stamp, or any other additional serials numbers. A practice that followed by the Detroit, MI Police Department. I want the bayonet to finish the look that I fell in love with because of the presented Anime "Gunslinger Girl". XD But I can't afford it, reproduction ones are 1.5x the cost of the gun when I got it, don't get me started on originals. But yeah, love it though, I take it rabbit hunting and clay shooting. But while I've not had any mechanical problems, I've bit by the bolt before, I just don't remember how.

I have. That's why I named mine Ol' Thumbuster. Ya learn real quick to keep a low grip with the right hand!

@@slaphappypappy3782 ....I'm such a nerd I named mine "Wendy", and legit wrote up the specs for a waifu'd art commission. DX

I just spit beer everywhere. Thanks.

Your wife took more magnum loads than the '97

That's not a Model 97 Winchester in that movie, it's a WW2 production Steven's Model 520-30 trenchgun, they're a hammerless design but have a square back action very similar to the shape of a Browning A5 shotgun and at a glance can look like a Model 97. But good eye anyways, you were close, the 520-30 was designed by John Browning who also designed the Model 97, he definitely has a signature style.

Oh yes there is no disconnecter on that shotgun as well as the later Ithaca Mod 37

Keep the trigger pulled and keep racking the slide. Not slam firing witch is something different

Actually...

It's a lesser known anime classic :)

It takes some getting used to it almost happened to me one time when I first bought mine.

Well Forgotten Weapons highly exaggerated about several things apparently, first off the troops loved them and they proved to be highly effective especially with troops assaulting trenches. The problem with the wax impregnated paper cartridges basically only really affected night raiding parties who had to crawl through shell holes while trying to sneak into German lines, while crawling through the water filled shell holes the cartridges would get wet and swell up in the magazine tube and get hung up in them causing them not to feed into the action, this problem was quickly identified and until all brass cartridges were procured and sent to France the troops who handled shotguns (including the Model 10 Remington which was also outfitted as a trenchgun in the war) learned to keep the shells dry and to keep the shotguns from being immersed in water. There's a bunch of misinformation going around about the use of shotguns in WW1 and the ammunition used in them that seems to stem from Forgotten Weapons, well Gun Jesus isn't God, he gets it wrong about a lot of things, not only with shotguns in WW1 but other arms to. All brass shot shells were being produced long before WW1, all the way back to the old west in everything from buckshot to birdshot, the only reason the military chose paper shot shells for use in WW1 is simply because they were cheaper, the US was trying to equip a one million man Army and had a budget it had to work inside of, after the problems with the paper shells was identified all brass buckshot rounds were procured and rushed to France, these proved to solve the ammo related problems and the shotguns proved to be very reliable. And the US Army in it's typical fashion has the habit of forgetting the lessons it learns in the previous war so naturally when the US entered WW2 it initially ordered paper shot shells for use in shotguns, and once again when the same problem was identified it immediately procured all brass shot shells and rushed them into service. I've been collecting US military shotguns for over 30 years and have read many of the after action reports on them from WW1 to Vietnam, I can assure you that overwhelmingly the troops in WW1 that handled them loved them and wouldn't give one up for a rifle any day of the week. Another weapon he sreads a lot of myths around about is the M14 rifle, never in the history of firearms has there been one that's had as much misinformation spread around about it than the M14, and Gun Jesus just repeats a bunch of the myths about it, I couldn't even finish watching that video and afterwards refused to watch any more of his.

I do believe in the WW1 era military twelve gauge shells were brass seen them in Vietnam in 1967

That's cool I own a 97' made in 1912 it's got that long hunting barrel. I got it for a good price about 6 years ago it still runs like a champ.

How is the Norinco?

@@Gieszkanne I've never had a problem with it. It's a solid frame, non takedown, but all the real trench guns were. It has no trigger disconnect, so it can slam fire. The quality and fit and finish are great. I tell myself, even though it's made in China, the manufacturing processes in modern China have to be at least on par with 1897 America.

Norinco make one dude. 400cad ezpz

Germany:- "It's not warcrime if you do it" *Proceeds to gas trenches , both enemy and friendly also Germany :- "Reee Those Amerikkans and der shotguns .Ban them . "

I have 2 use them at home youngest daughter loves to shoot trap with one fits well

@@stevenbartlett2968, I'm jealous... you wanna sell one? I can't slamfire my Mossberg.😪

There family sorry

That's nonsense, I've owned many of both and that's total nonsense. And if you don't think a Model 12 Winchester won't discharge from being dropped then you go right ahead and stand in front of one that's loaded and gets dropped if you're so confident about that. The proper way to handle a Model 97 in a safe manner that has one in the chamber is to have it on half cock, if you've ever had one apart you'd know that the half cock notch on the hammer is U shaped and completely captures the sear part of the trigger, when in that state you can drop it on the hammer or strike the hammer with an object and it'll never fall on the firing pin, anyone who'd carry a Model 97 with one in the chamber and the hammer resting on the firing pin instead of having it on half cock deserves to shoot their own foot off, only a complete idiot would do something like that, there as safe as any firearm ever made when handled the way they're designed to be handled. John Moses Browning was highly intelligent and didn't design unsafe or junk firearms, obviously you've never owned or handled a Model 97.

All shotguns with internal hammer arent drop safe either! The good thing with the 1897 is that you can store it safely with a loaded chamber and hammer down.

I'll add it to the list 👍