German : "I'll drive" American : "I'll ride shotgun" German : ****S-W-E-A-T****

God bless John browning. From handguns to machine guns to shotguns and more. I’d say one of if not THE best firearm designers in history

Spencer really was a great innovator, creating the very first magazine with an internal buttstock.

My 1897 is a riot style built in the 20's. It breathes life into me everytime I take it out.

Man those 97s are terrific shotguns, I used one for my first real clay pigeon competition on a course and I'm no fantastic shot but I definitely performed better with the 97 than with any of the pretty double barrels and semi shotguns they had at each station.

I have an 1897 and it is by far my favorite shotgun

I acquired an 1897 from a family member made in 1911, and I absolutely love this shotgun. Still functional, great craftsmanship, and fun.

aesthetically I love the military model of the 1897, it's one of those dream guns I doubt I ever own, but if I did, I be one happy man.

I love my 1897. It's a great shooter with a lot of history

My father owns an 1893, I've got no clue how he got his hands on it but I've gotten the chance to fire it a few times. Definitely a very fun shotgun to shoot.

Have my Dad's Uncles 1893......in great shape. Shoot black powder shells only. Love it !!!

My absolute favorite pump shotgun :) I have 9 or 10 of them in my collection, and most of them are still in good shape and perfectly functional. My favorite by far is an original WW1 trench gun built in April of 1918. Love it to death :) I would also like an 1893 at some point, but like you said they are difficult to find. Thank you for the video Ian, as always.

Thanks for posting this, my late Uncle gave me a "97 which was made in 1908 with near perfect blueing. I used to dove hunt with it until I decided to retire her when he gave me his 870 but she is still the prize in my collection !

In hindsight, it really makes a tremendous amount of sense what they did about the 1893s; they were a lawsuit just asking to happen when they exploded from using the wrong ammunition. It was pretty cool that they offered to trade a brand new 1897, a lot of companies would just let the old guns explode and play dumb when the lawsuits inevitably happened. Winchester went so far as to destroy any and all 1893s they got their hands on, to ensure they didn't wind up back in circulation somehow or another. In a way, it sucks today that 1893s are so scarce because of it, but in hindsight, it makes perfect sense, and was a surprisingly honest business practice you don't see much in the industry, especially today. And because so many were destroyed, 1893s do have the inadvertent collector's appeal to them today.

Bought the airgun kzfaq.infoUgkxQt2uORDRfFOVSrO4idv4B90ThT6EOnEL for pest control. Initially sighted-in with lead pellets but after about 100 shots decided to upgrade to the faster PBA Platinum pellets (spec'd at 1250 fps). The picture shows the distribution of 11 pellets on a target at ~20 yards. Overall, very happy with the handling of the Varmint, little recoil, no scope creep (make sure to follow the installation instructions that include the lock pin!), lightweight and fits nicely in a standard carrying case. The airgun is loud, more so shooting with PBA pellets. Something to consider if that's a possible issue in your environment / neighborhood.Update: considering upgrading to a more powerful 0.22, likely Gamo Magnum. I'm not thrilled about using toxic lead pellets but there's no other way to get sufficient impact without lead weight as far as I can tell, which is needed for adult iguanas pest control.

My first shotgun was a 1897. And I still have it. Love that gun.

love my 1897's....have both the 12 and 16.......grew up watching grandpa hunting with this shotgun.....have know owned 4 of them......still have 3......between them and my model 12's..great guns....

I've always loved the 1897. My friend has one at its a blast to shoot. The slam fire is pretty awesome and it's funny to see people's reaction when you rack off six shells fairly fast. As always thanks Ian for the videos I've learned a lot from them.

I've got an 1893. How it got to the U.K. is a mystery. It has a single digit serial number so was one of the very first made.

I recently inherited my great great grandfather's model 1987 that he carried as sherif. The serial number dates to 1910

I left the Garand Thumb video on this gun to come watch your video before returning to his.

My dad bought his 97 at the goodyear employee store in akron . I think about 1960 ? Still have it and its gorgeous . blue is 90% and stock is the same .

my step-father, the gun and cartridge collector, owned a model '97 12 ga. and we used to shoot it at Oakland Rifle and Pistol Club; as well as using it for Pheasant Season in Live Oak, Calif.

John browning. The man, the myth, the legend.

I always had a fascination with the 97. Back in 2005, a friend gave me one (made in 1913) that was so trashed it needs restoration before it can used. Haven't got around to bringing back to life, so when I found a current production Chinese clone of the 1897 in riot configuration, I bought one. Love it...not as well finished as original Winchesters, but good quality and functions perfectly. The same friend gave me a Model 1912 (made 1936) that was fully functional, and as great as the Model 12 is, there's something very appealing to a exposed hammer pump gun.

Having just last night disassembled and cleaned my IAC M97 for the first time, I see why you did not attempt a "field strip" on camera!

What a pleasure to watch and really hit home for me. My grandfather had a 83' and left it do my Dad when hr passed away. Sadly though my father lost it during a house fire. Thanks for the video, brings back some fond memories.

Just got the book. Had to rewatch this after learning about the 1893.

Found a 1897 Winchester in my barn that I forgot about for 30 years 😟 A little surface rust, but it's cleaning up well ✝️🇺🇸😀👍

I feel fortunate than I'm going to be getting my own 1897.

Thanks for the insightful information - my contribution to this incredible Winchester story is that I am the proud owner and still user of a 1905 Model 97 16 gauge and also a 1948 Model 94 30 WCF - these incredibly designed weapons make me look good.

Always a go to video. Well researched and authoritatively presented. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and interest.

God, what majestic weapons. Regardless of practicality by modern standards, there's something absolutely beautiful about watching the actions on these work.

So many thanks Ian for creating YOUR very own category, along with your utterly unique History lessons!; Many thanks & Blessings!!.🙂🙏🙏🙏

No wonder this is the bar at which all other pump shotguns after were judged on

Love the patina on those two shotguns!

Man I love the Winchester M1897

This brought back memories for. My dad had this gun, I used it as well.

I was blessed with the chance to hunt water fowel and pheasants with a 1905 version of the Model 97. It was an experience that I have long cherished and a great gun to shoot.

absolutely LOVE the 1897 i can't wait to get one luckily it's older than 1900 so it's way easier to aquire where I live too (normally)

Aaahhh...slam fire! I had an old J C Higgins pump that could slam fire. The action was so fast, you didn't need to slam fire. I could fire 3 aimed shots in under 2 seconds.

Thank you , Ian .

My Grandfather just gave me his fathers 1897 (1907) take down as well as an extra "action half". I have it cleaned, oiled and hanging on my saddle for almost daily farm checks.

Once again, great video.

Getting my 30 inch cut to 20 today can't wait

Id love to see a review and shooting of the 1897.I have one my self it was made in 1907 and is a dream to shoot.

great video, thanks a lot

Thanks for the vid sir.👍🏼👍🏼

Very nice! My great great grandfather brought his family and a 1897 Winchester to Oklahoma Territory from Alvarado Tx and drew a 1/4 section of land.

My brother owns a 1893 winchester 12ga. I fired it many years ago and I loved it .

Love my Model 97. Still shoot clays with and hunt with it.

I own a model '97 manufactured in 1902. I love this gun.

I check you're channel for a new video I find them very interesting keep it up ian from not so sunny England.

I almost bought a model 1893 last year, and then did a little research and decided against it. Thanks for the review and the information.

Nice! I got a vintage 1987 take down for Christmas from my uncle. I tore it apart and cleaned it up. The internals seem to be in good working order. Sadly the wood is not in the best condition and the original foregrip is missing.

Winchester 1897 early slam-fire pump action shotgun

I have 2 1897,love them!

Interesting and a real nice pair of shot guns

Thank you for posting this. I've only seen one 1893 offered for sale over the twenty something years I have been going to gun shows. In that same time I've seen three one of one thousand and two black diamonds in the same time frame.

Hey Ian, not sure if you still monitor the comments on these older videos, but I just picked up an 1897 over the weekend. The serial number puts the manufacture date at 1913. I know it's probably not a good idea to shoot modern buckshot and whatnot out of (I wasn't planning on it anyway), but is it safe to use with modern factory loaded birdshot? Specifically 7 1/2 and 8 shot? I'm not planning to shoot it a lot but I would like to be able to take it out and enjoy it every once and a while. Thanks for the videos!

I have a model 1897 I inherited from my grandfather. Neat old shotgun

The 1897 technically has a disconnector, it just acts in a way that the whole firing group, minus the trigger, pivots down and back from the trigger when opened, so when the action is closed, the sear actually hits against the trigger (as opposed to the usual vice versa) and that is why it can slam fire.

I've got 2 ol 97s. My dad had one and the day I got out of the Navy, I bought one of my shipmates with discharge pay. I think it was $75 for the gun, but that was in 1975. When dad died I inherited.

In the 90s, the Army still had mod 1897 trench guns. We had them in Panama and at Ft Campbell.

I had an 1897 and it was built like a champ and easily taken apart with a flat tip screwdriver. I just came across another one the other day

I purchased an 1897 in horrible condition about half a year ago. I've been restoring it, and was gifted an original one with full matching serial #s just the other day. I would highly recommend to any of you to pick up one of these shotguns if you have the opportunity. Even buying a project one is fun, and parts are abundant.

I do love how the Germans, who started the use of chemical weapons in WW1, were pissed about Americans using these shotguns because they were so damn effective.

i have a great 93 winchester, and always wondered the value of it, its in very very good condition, and doesn't look more than 20 years old

Ian, my father currently owns two '93s, one is the same as what you have in the video, the other has the sheet cartridge guide like a '97 on the carrier and has a breech bolt lock like a '97 (but no release button). I found reference at one point over the years that some 93's were modified by Winchester for smokeless use, and I believe his is one of them. In any event it is an interesting transition between the 93 and 97. I will attempt to get photos of it to email you.

About the M1897 bayonet lug. If I recall correctly, it's actually made to accept Pattern 1907 bayonets, which are British, made for the Mk.III Lee Enfield, or more commonly simply known as the SMLE. Has a menacing 17" or so blade, so when taken off your rifle or shotgun, can be used as a shortsword. They did NOT frig around in WWI lol Also, Ian, seems like you've got an 'owie' on every other video. Now it's a bandage on your thumb. You may love firearms just as I do, but I'm not entirely sure the affection is reciprocated. I think it might be interesting if you started mentioning burns/cuts on your hands in future vids, let us know what design it came from and how you got it. For instance, I once burned my hand on my SKS-45 when I stupidly went to take it from my friend by the gas tube/barrel because his hand was on the fore end of the stock. Then when I first got my M1911A1 almost 7 years ago, somehow I manage to squat the meat of palm at the base of my left thumb in the ejection port. lol A TT-33 very nearly gave my eye a good whack. While disassembling, I didn't have full control of that taut recoil spring, and it got away from me. The little cap at the end of it flicked off right in my face, striking me JUST below one of my eyes. Then there's a bit of Hi Power hammer bite, but one thing I've yet to get is M1 Thumb, in spite of having my 1941 M1 Rifle for about 4 years or so. Then of course there was the bruising on my right shoulder on my first few trips to the range shooting rifles and shotguns, but I think that's common with everyone.

I love the 1897 it is a cool shotgun and it works good and it is intimidating in its trench configuration also it is unique and I really want one.

6:10 how are you closing the action that slowly with out it jamming up? My 1897 gets stuck if I don't slam it forward.

Only $800 for em! If Australia had better firearm laws I would be placing a bid :( Great video. I thought the 1897 was the first Pump action so good to learn it wasnt and who really was the first creator of them.

Not sure if you still look at this Ian, but the audio on this video doesn't seem to be working as of now (August 2019)

The model 1897 is just plain outstanding.

What was the pump Action shotgun that William Holden had in The Wild Bunch ? I know it was around that vintage .

One of the issues with the 12 gauge Black Powder shotshells .vs. Smokeless shotshell, besides the higher pressure (if the barrel is chambered for the smokeless shotshell) is that with the Smokeless shotshell being slightly longer (an eighth of an inch (~3.2mm)) the end of the shotshell doesn't fully open and creates a spot where the shot or slug will hang up for a short moment which will make one "heck" of a pressure spike!!! The shotshell length is a measurement of the hull without a crimp. This is why in some shotguns that are rated for 2.75" (70mm) you can actually chamber 3" shotshells (76.2mm)!!! This is obviously an even bigger issue than that of a 2.75" in a 2.625" barrel (if both were loaded with black powder)! This can, and eventually will, cause a burst barrel at the end of the chamber in the barrel...

Can you do a video on the 1911 Winchester "widowmaker" and or Remington model 11/ browning a5s

Imagine stabbing someone with the bayonet, then, while it's still in them, pulling the trigger. Brutal, and I bet it happened.

Mr. Spencer is Edison of firearms!

My dad has one with a twist adjustable choke on it. Not sure if it was sold like that, or modified.

Skipped right over the 1887 lever action shotgun. :)

I know this is an old video, but what's with that sort of golden looking metal the 1893 has? Is it the remnants of a finish, or is just a combo of the lighting plus worn bare metal?

the M97 a good hunting and home defense shotgun especially in its WW1 Trench Broom or Trench gun configuration

i recently acquired a 1897 and would like to know where i can get reliable information on it. thank you.

How do we get current videos? It seems as though all your videos from auction houses are long in the tooth. They are still terrific, though.

Real talk... Real talk... I've got one of these (love it) but the forend has a big crack in it that's splitting about halfway across... Is it sacrilege to wood glue it back together?

Man I missed that introduction , it needs to come back

The 1893 was also offered with Damascus barrels for about $2 more than the "fluid steel" barrel. My Great Grandfather bought an 1893 new and refused to pay the extra $2 which turned out to be a wise decision. It has had thousands of rounds put through it, most of them 2 3/4 inch. It's never failed, is still in perfect working order and still in the family. However, it has been retired in favor of newer shotguns.

Ian, I’m confused, why is the lifter dropping down not ideal? Does it make the action susceptible to the elements? Because you said it was reliable, and I presume it gained its reputation for reliability from it’s performance in The Great War, which was a very muddy, dirty war, so, what’s less than ideal about it? I mean, it was protested by the German Empire, so, I assume it had to be pretty effective.

I have a '97 that I traded for in Alaska decades ago. I traded a Smith & Wesson .22 revolver for it. Everyone thought I was nuts and at the time it was not a good financial deal on my part, the value of the .22 being far greater. However, I didn't have a shotgun with me and I wanted to shoot some emperor geese. I still have the '97 that was made in 1929. I suspect that it is now worth more than the .22 would be with the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting. And I did shoot quite a few emperor geese which can no longer be hunted. So it turned out to be a good longterm investment although everyone at the time said I was nuts trading a nice new revolver for an old POS shotgun.

I have inherited a 16 gauge 97. Pretty cool now that I know about it. Is it okay for home protection or would something newer be more practical?

I bought a Winchester 1897 riot gun for $400 a week ago, made in 1918. I don't plan to shoot it a lot but I was wondering what kinda target and home defense loads would be fine to shoot through it? I have lead shot high brass game loads (Winchester Super X, 2 3/4 inch, 1 1/4 ounce, 4 lead shot), and Winchester double ought buckshot. I know you shouldn't put slugs or steel shot through them

Is there any way to retro fit an 1893 such that it will safely fire today’s loads? I have my grandfather’s and actually learned to shoot w/ it before knowing that doing so was unsafe.

Resting in my gun safe is my Grampa's old M-97. It has a full choke 30" barrel. My Grampa couldn't see to shoot a rifle, but he sure could get a pheasant with that 97. I got it from my Dad. I'll have to show it to my son and grandson and tell them the story of the pheasant that I had to cross three barb wire fences to get after my Grampa shot it down.

I have 97's in both 12 & 16 ,and a 93 I've never shot... The 12 gauge 97 was my grandfather's from about 1902, And the 16 was my father's. The 93 was from my grandfather also, but I don't really know the history.

Do we know the reason the 1893 had the extra cutout in the ejection port, or why it was eliminated in the 1897? I would assume cost/time of manufacture would be a large factor, but was curious if there were secondary considerations.

help!!!!! Bought an old beater 1897 and it slam fires every time the forend goes home! WITHOUT touching the trigger!!! the hammer does not ride the bolt back, but jumps up and hits the pin the second the bolt comes all the way forward. any ideas for fix???

Are you going to do a video on the spencer? I saw there was a few of them at the auction (both the original and bannerman variants).

What's the button for on the right side on the 97 above the trigger gaurd