Wizards of the Coast cEDH Tournaments are Happening!
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Күн бұрынToday we got huge news about official cEDH tournaments backed by Wizards of the Coast. cEDHPT, a European tournament organizer, just announced that they have plans with WotC for officially backed Commander tournaments in the near future. I go over the announcement, what these events might look like, and what this kind of attention could mean for the future of cEDH.
Let me know down below what you think about this massive development!
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Chapters
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - Promo Stuff
1:59 - The Announcement
2:48 - Playtest Cards
4:33 - The Scale of Events
6:43 - The Meta of a "Real" Format
8:47 - Closing Thoughts
@mcolby7214 3 ай бұрын
cEDH: I wanna play against you, not your wallet. WotC-EDH: we want you to play against yourselves for our wallet
@Monsu1erq 3 ай бұрын
Another officially sanctioned format means no proxies at said tournaments, which may, just may, cause a spike in reserved list cards
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
Yeah I'm really hoping we get a good answer for the RL issue. I don't think the scale of where I think this format is going can possibly be supported with the supply we have access to.
@Carriantor 3 ай бұрын
Soooo. Does that mean an expansion of the banlist to include a bunch of the highly used RL cards?
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
@@Carriantor not sure! But that could be a viable option. A lot of the originally banned cards are on there for price reasons that current cards definitely fit.
@bradleyemery 3 ай бұрын
Officially though, the RC no longer bans for accessibility reasons, and after the comments surrounding the Flash ban, I don't expect them to change that policy for the sake of tournament players
@BedroomPianist 3 ай бұрын
@@LemorasCards Yeah we won't get a good answer. We'll get this bad answer though: "Buy them. No proxies." Vintage sanctioned events run 4-ofs and they don't give a damn. I don't see the RC banning the RL cards either.
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
Imagine you’re in a pod with 3 channel fireball players - they team up on you to ensure someone from their team advances. Easy and allowed by current rules
@pierredupont1096 3 ай бұрын
This sort of stuff can already happen, just play to win on your own or build to disrupt everyone so it's a draw.
@247juggernaut 3 ай бұрын
I’m here for it! I’m fine with maintaining the current cEDH proxy friendly events as well as non proxy wotc backed cEDH events.
@dragondook 3 ай бұрын
Exactly
@the_breakfastclub 3 ай бұрын
This sounds great! The fact that Wizards is interested in our Format per se ist super cool, regarding a possibly better banlist, a new impulse for a talk about the RL and so on. AND the integrity shown by cedhPT turning down Wizards' first approach is super strong. That's a nice representation and voice to the community. Love these news!
@pierredupont1096 3 ай бұрын
This. ANd this might finally move the needle on the RC to make changes to the banned list based on tournament results. Positives all around.
@zeroisnine 3 ай бұрын
I mean, I don't really see why you should expect them to allow proxies at tournaments. I mean, is this allowed at any tournaments they provide support for? I mean, it just seems completely unreasonable.
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
I don't expect them to, I think some sort of adjustment will be made around RL cards whether that's with card legality or what, otherwise I expect these events might struggle to support the actual amount of play they should bring in.
@Carriantor 3 ай бұрын
maybe WotC just may take control, leave EDH and reincarnate cEDH as “Commander” with a vastly expanded banlist, or perhaps a points system for banned cards similar to Canadian highlander. In the end WotC WILL take control to direct people to favor the buying the latest sealed products, it is just a matter of what that will look like and how the community guides the changes. One thing of concern is the lack of judges considering WotC terminated the prior judges agreement and hasn’t bother to engage a new contract.
@tylercraig5633 3 ай бұрын
Very exciting news depending on what their official stance on proxies will be. If they won’t budge then I don’t think anything major will change until WOTC allows proxies
@B1gLupu 3 ай бұрын
Maybe we actually get good green cards now that WotC knows we exist. Something like "1GG, Whenever an opponent cast a creature, draw a card". Maybe finally we can get ally colored Partners that aren't total garbaga?
@damo9961 3 ай бұрын
Or maybe just nerf partners so you have to pay tax on every cast after the first no matter which commander - which would make them almost fair. Cast Thrasios now your Tymna costs 5.
@moshjoshpitchief4418 3 ай бұрын
prossh, my first food chain love. nice pic.
@B1gLupu 3 ай бұрын
@@moshjoshpitchief4418 was my first magic deck too. I think I got my food chain 1 month into paper magic :)
@aR0ttenBANANA 3 ай бұрын
It all stands on what they do about RL and proxies. I have all teh cards I need except TT so it's not an issue but on the other hand I really don't want another format that pushes prices up cus that's not the point. I wonder if a RL ban could lead to some interesting changes.
@bradleyemery 3 ай бұрын
Absolutely wild to announce at the end of February that they won't be printing Portuguese cards anymore and then start March by reaching out to a Portuguese tournament organizer to support a format reliant on cards they don't print anymore. To be clear, I'm very excited to see WotC support their players in pretty much any way. I agree with most of the points you make, including concerns about the top end of the format crystallizing, but for now at least, I'm gonna keep playing and keep proxying. But it seems a tonal mismatch
@dvdpekard 3 ай бұрын
The Portuguese printing is more important for Brazilians than to us Portuguese, we actually had a few years from BFZ up to ELD where we couldn't even order Portuguese printed cards to Europe, it was exclusive to Brazil. We in Portugal actually prefer the cards in English tbh.
@bradleyemery 3 ай бұрын
I remembered that the headlines were specifically about the Brazilian response, but was missing this context, so I appreciate your reply
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
What do you think about official cEDH events with Wizards of the Coast backing? What does this mean for the future of Commander? Let me know down below!
@thetruesilence8294 3 ай бұрын
It would be great if they gave support, but as you’ve said the reserve list requirements for a lot of decks would be extremely expensive and not healthy. Being proxy friendly is a big center point cEDH and stripping that would inevitably cap the player number.
@troysakai5556 3 ай бұрын
I think Wizard's will probably hold the ground for a while on the no-proxy going into their support. They probably want the data set of its worth supporting with that model as we see with Legacy has a small pool of players, but it requires 1-4 Copies of reserved list cards. It will cause a spike in reserved list cards, but it may also limit the 4 and 5 colored pile decks from being as widespread in these tournaments or play without duals which is still playable for the decks just not as hyper efficient.
@pierredupont1096 3 ай бұрын
I think it's good and it's a long time coming. Hopefully the prizes for these are high enough that they squeeze out smaller venues. (IE: Offer a Beta Timetwister or something, or Beta duals or whatnot or huge cash so the big sharks come to play.) Have judges at each table and for collusion/seating concerns just move players around away from their teams or disallow table talk. Lastly, if it means changes to the Banned List by additional pressure on the RC I'm all for it.
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
What do they mean by "solo event" , a single player tournament?
@floridaman6982 3 ай бұрын
I will not play in a no proxy format.
@donbigotes360 3 ай бұрын
Either they allow people to play proxies, or they reprint those cards 🤷♂
@hellproof2379 3 ай бұрын
Just want up to 10 proxies.
@hellproof2379 3 ай бұрын
I’m fine with reserve list only too
@larrylegend6124 3 ай бұрын
A lot of Vintage tournaments are 15 proxy. But like half of those are auto-includes in every deck. Five to ten would be reasonable to adopt, not that I expect WotC to be reasonable...
@dvdpekard 3 ай бұрын
@@hellproof2379 the cEDHPT/cEDH European Championship is running on a Full RL + up to 10 Non-RL Cards proxy policy for example.
@TripsAhoy 3 ай бұрын
Very cool. ❤❤❤
@TheAestheticDM 3 ай бұрын
Honestly, with how bad hasbro/wotc have been handling everything the past few years . I’d rather they keep their dirty hands out of the format. The format is doing great (despite recent controversies), it’s growing and thriving! We DONT need them!
@kentharris1820 3 ай бұрын
I agree to an extent. Wizards is focusing on standard format and its in the heathiest place the format has been in a long time according to my buddys who grind standard. So my hope is they put as much care as they do with other formats to make it a healthy format and thriving format.
@MacLaren_100 3 ай бұрын
I wish the would print a fetchable dual that comes in untapped if the mana made is in your commanders identity
@dvdpekard 3 ай бұрын
The current policy for the cEDH European Championship circuit and main event is full RL + 10 Non-RL cards at the player's choice. This incentivises the community to actually own the cards, with some space for testing and saving on the most expensive cards for example. We don't want full proxy events because that's not very practical.
@drunklog1crecords144 3 ай бұрын
You not doing the sgccon Atl cedh tourney?
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
I dont have a deck together to play in it, plus I really need to get ahead on some videos.
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
What is a “solo event “ ?
@AngoDecay 3 ай бұрын
im wondering if theyd be ok with their own printed reserve list proxys haha (magic 30)
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
Lol unfortunately they're really not very affordable either
@syndicate5357 3 ай бұрын
That would get them sued lol
@moshjoshpitchief4418 3 ай бұрын
RIP best format ever.
@toctheyounger 3 ай бұрын
I'm VERY skeptical on the outcome for this, although on the surface it is good news. I think even if they're proxy lenient (strong doubt) there will likely be limitations on it. We've already seen with the 30th they're quite happy to sell playtest cards, so it'll end up being something they want to monetize. Or, they abolish the RL. VERY strong doubt there. And even if they did, they basically only reprint chase cards as a tease at higher price points anyway, there's no way they'd flood the market enough to nullify the proxy market. Honestly chances are it'll be just like SCGcons but with top deck software.
@vThane 3 ай бұрын
Wouldnt surprise me if we get official only cedh legal Reserve list proxie Packs for like 200 bucks
@TheSquiggy 3 ай бұрын
Biggest I can see here is the RL and proxy issue. Hopefully they can look at other major tourneys that at least have tournament issued RL proxys so it wont be as an issue but knowing WotC I doubt it.
@100legodude 3 ай бұрын
There’re an estimated 250,000 copies of each dual land printed. There’re probably even more copies of later RL cards. The only EDH-relevant card that is genuinely in short supply is Timetwister. There’re a few others like Tabernacle and Workshop, but those are very niche cards. People can just choose decks that don’t run Timetwister and then the number of RL cards printed isn’t a real cap on attendance anymore.
@fernandob2275 3 ай бұрын
They dont do anything year round for vintage and players think they won’t just take your format out to pasture eventually?
@kellyperry5009 3 ай бұрын
Wotc wants a piece of all the money being spent on magic. Will be interesting to see if this format is enough to move the needle on the official stance for proxy cards. Or maybe reprints....
@Cero-xp3nx 3 ай бұрын
If these organizers do not get on board, Wizards will likely create their own alternate format with a new cardpool ruleset. 98% people who play commander and buy wizards products will not be affected if Time Twister and Candelabra and revised duals are left out, and will happily embrace the playing-field being leveled. Wizards will likely attempt to create a splinter Vintage/Legacy divide so that they can manage the organized play of a format that does not require 15k decks to make day 2. I'm not sure this is even a suboptimal outcome. Having a managed banlist and the need to remove rule 0 conversations by just saying you are playing cedh or "new name" format seems good. However, organized play driving a required 'meta' and driving away all of the casual kitchen table players would be very very bad. Enough to make this a bad idea probably. Not sure wizards will be able to resist, though.
@christopheranderson5963 3 ай бұрын
More likely WOTC would say that the CEDH would be modern or standard card (plu commander product )legal cards only. I cannot see any world where WOTC permits playtest cards even for reserved list cards. I think it is crazy to think they would sponsor something like that.
@fitnesshunter6302 3 ай бұрын
The issue with proxies for wotc even for reserved list cards is; if they allowed proxies of RL cards it would negatively effect the secondary market value of those cards similar too or even more than doing away with the reserve list would.
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
Yeah, it's tricky. Doesn't seem like there's an answer that makes everyone happy, I'm optimistic that these events will be a net positive and just have to hope that some considerations for accessibility in some form show up.
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
It’s a “format” with $5,000 decks (w/o Time Twister)- using proxies is a way to temporarily ignore this fact but doesn’t change the reality.
@ChrisDavis-tt1dj 3 ай бұрын
Wizards has consistently priced everypne out of every format. 1. Historic - you have sell your car or first born to buy in. 2. Legacy - I used to compete now a decent deck is $4,000.00 or more. 3. Standard - ha ha no one plays Standard. 4. Commander used be an area free from WOTC. Now with sanctioned non proxy friendly events, most of us will get priced out and move on to other things. If they keep pushing these eternal formats the reserved list will kill the game.
@taylormarcon5131 3 ай бұрын
I think it’s far more likely if this catches on they start banning expensive cards out of the format
@djkatsuo 2 ай бұрын
With the popularity of commander and cedh I figured this was coming but knowing wotc they will ban proxies and the few players with money will dominate and win more money. So on par with current life Meta 😂
@tightoa 3 ай бұрын
WOTC will try and cop out of the reprint policy / reserved list. Plain and simple. Still, good news for cEDH.
@mryoso31 3 ай бұрын
Amazing for WotC to support CEDH. So how about the Vintage/Legacy events? Maybe in the US those events are fully supported idk but here in my country Vintage and Legacy events are very rare. Long before, eternal formats have very low support that's why players are discouraged to play. But now when EDH is super hot WotC became concerned/caring lmao. Funny move if you ask me. Before EDH became Commander then WotC capitalized on the format and now they are becoming involved in tournaments etc. My fear is that with the corporate greed of WotC, EDH will be totally ruined in the future.
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
They will not rescind the reserved list until a need to print RL arises to make money - so far with over $1 billion each year in sales - they have no need to reprint RL
@jamesmorris5151 3 ай бұрын
How to kill a community 101: don't allow proxies or "play test cards" WotC just wants in on the potential cash cow they are missing out on that LGS are getting without having to pay Hasbro a percentage... IF they do allow proxy it will be an ungodly boon for all LGS and even Hasbro themselves. I think it will be good for the health of the format IF they do let proxies happen.
@floridaman6982 3 ай бұрын
Reminds me of that DnD scandal. Just taking advantage of what people create inside the game
@tristansherman9611 3 ай бұрын
Honestly I have a hard time believing that Library of Alexandria isn’t a busted card even in a format as mana-hungry and optimized as cEDH. It’s a repeatable source of card advantage with minimal deck-building cost that a majority of decks would be clamoring for, if you don’t mind me asking why do you think it wouldn’t be busted in cEDH?
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
The average hand starting at 6 or less cards in competitive play is one factor for sure. Colorless lands have to perform very highly in most of the current best decks which are higher color lists. Trading off one mana for one card once per turn cycle in a 1v3 isn't an exceptional rate that I would treat as free as I would a land in 1v1 having that effect.
@DoodMcGuy 3 ай бұрын
depends on the list you run but a land that only makes colorless isn't great. also only being able to draw with a full hand is a tight restriction to get just one more card. for one mana remora provides more value and ad naus and necropotence are much faster options
@tristansherman9611 3 ай бұрын
Fair enough, thank you both for your responses, would it be fair to say that it would more likely be regulated to slower, grindier decks with fewer colors as a desirable use-case for Library of Alexandria if it were ever unbanned?
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
@tristansherman9611 yeah I think it 100% would show up somewhere. Lower color decks that can run more utility lands could throw it in there at relatively low cost.
@tristansherman9611 3 ай бұрын
@@LemorasCards Thank you for your response, I was wondering if you’ve ever considered making a mini-series covering individual decks that used to perform well and have since fallen off. I took a hiatus from MtG and cEDH from late 2019 to about mid-22, and it was a bit of a shock seeing how far Gitrog had fallen since then, considering I had been building up to a Gitrog list before I took my break. I think it would be really cool to analyze why Gitrog can’t/doesn’t keep up in today’s format. Either way, thanks for all the cool content!
@nikola25spasic 3 ай бұрын
Perhaps a legacy CEDH format and a modern CEDH format. Legacy as is. Modern, same but no reserve list cards allowed. This would allow for accessibility in cedh. I certainly cant play legacy because i dont own the cards but still have access to modern, standard, pioneer in 1v1.
@nikola25spasic 3 ай бұрын
I should add I really want wizards supported cedh tournaments. I still want non-sanctioned but definitely want pro tour level gameplay and video/announcing. It would be awesome to follow favorite players at that kind of scale. I don't even play 1v1 magic but still watch pro tours.
@syndicate5357 3 ай бұрын
A separate ban list is needed for health of both casual and competitive formats
@fernandob2275 3 ай бұрын
Wotc will have a separate ban list for sanctioned cEDH tbh. Just to ban RL cards 😂
@calebburch9816 3 ай бұрын
Slippery slope to getting rid of the format being proxy friendly
@user-ot1qk8ly6g 3 ай бұрын
Can we just proxies RL ffs... Yes i will still buy stupid mana crypt...
@sbKalEl 3 ай бұрын
So you want to play official game with unlicensed cards. Interesting.
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
I just don't want to have to buy a Timetwister 😩
@sbKalEl 3 ай бұрын
@@LemorasCards you really don’t have to play a deck with timetwister. There will be plenty tier 1 decks without it.
@LemorasCards 3 ай бұрын
@sbKalEl well at least for me personally the two decks I'd have interest putting together in paper are rog/thras and rog/si both of which use it.
@ChaoticElegy 3 ай бұрын
Commander is where casual play exists now. This effectively works against that. This is a terrible change. Competitive doesn’t need to be in every damn format. Now it’s gonna be even more expensive to get into.
@thetimebinder 3 ай бұрын
Let's be honest. WOTC is only interested in order to quash playtest cards being used.
@Droptima1 3 ай бұрын
WOTC official ban list PLEEEEEEASE!
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
Commander already has a banned list
@Droptima1 3 ай бұрын
@@bobthor9647 Not a competitively curated one. It's literally about casual feel bads and is even stated that it's unsuited for competitive play by the RC.
@untilthewheelsfalloff1751 3 ай бұрын
“CoMmAnDEr Is A CaSUal FOrMat” yes!!!! Finally, I told you people during fishbowl this was happening. Also, now they cEDH is getting attention the need to leave the ban list alone (oracle is still the weakest move in the game) tell the rules committee to fuck off because they’re all over the place, and leave the RL be.
@TheRinjo 3 ай бұрын
"it'll change the format " yes because more decks can slam in fast mana and pull off breach , consultation , T oracle , food chain , the meta is stale af its litterly the same 5 win cons in every deck with a infinite mana loop ....
@bobthor9647 3 ай бұрын
Cheaters and scammers would flock to a high money tournament- the amount of collusion with teams of players scamming tournaments with draws and collusion would sadly become the norm- having players draw at the top table is the tip of the iceberg as far as multiplayer collusion goes
@damo9961 3 ай бұрын
If they ban all the expensive cards then the allure of the format goes down. Personally I'd quit all Magic if they did that.
@UsableObject 3 ай бұрын
I cant imagine this being anything good if proxies/playtest cards arent allowed. Paper legacy has already been dead for a while and and cedh is to follow if wizards sanctioned tournaments become the norm.
@robertk1834 3 ай бұрын
don't worry the game will be fine, EDH is the most popular paper format
@CthulhuOGreatOne 3 ай бұрын
@robertk1834 except the popularity will spike the cost of cards and will scuff the competitive integrity of the event. No proxy events are a joke.
@robertk1834 3 ай бұрын
that's how supply and demand works, what's the issue?
@CthulhuOGreatOne 3 ай бұрын
@robertk1834 the issue is lack of competitive integrity when only the oldest players or richest players can participate. If you want to say you're king of a scuffed tourney then cool I guess but you aren't proving much.
@UsableObject 3 ай бұрын
@robertk1834 the issue is false scarcity due to the reserve list not allowing supply to meet demand, which is caused and enforced by the very company trying to give 'support' to the cEDH scene. Proxies and playtest cards are a solution to that issue, a 5 cent mountain with 'Timetwister' written on it has has no functional gameplay difference to a $5000.00 official piece of cardboard.
@davidew345 3 ай бұрын
I always have this conversation with people and I believe the most fair thing to do is make only RL cards proxy-able. That seems like the best middle ground imo.
@ReyaadawnMTG 3 ай бұрын
I've said the same thing. cEDH is a huge piggy bank that WOTC can dip into a generate a ton of money. They'll print a "cEHD Staples" Secret Lair that will make them millions of dollars and then change the banlist/rules and make even more. For example, let wishes work properly and print a "As You Wish" Secret Lair.
@shaman009 3 ай бұрын
Do away with proxies. Own the spell to cast the spell
@lomo918 3 ай бұрын
They should just get rid of the RL. Old cards will still be valuable.
@MegaRageman_DSMTG 3 ай бұрын
Hasbro is loosing money on everything but MTG. If they abolished the RL the class action lawsuits will be brutal. I doubt Hasbro wants to foot that bill.
@untilthewheelsfalloff1751 3 ай бұрын
Absolutely bad take
@TripsAhoy 3 ай бұрын
Nah
@dragondook 3 ай бұрын
No. Skill issue.
@syndicate5357 3 ай бұрын
@@MegaRageman_DSMTGthey'd win. They have edited and violated that list many times then mentioned a specific card that violated it and reprinted it like 18 months ago
@lomalindasmogcheck1 3 ай бұрын
No. Absolutely not. Wotc can only screw our (not theirs) format.
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