Everytime a torpedo has a bug i'm just going to say ''There goes the MK14 again''

Well, I'm not surprised. I kinda expected something like this would happen, because the subs in WoWs would have an identity crisis. The basic concealment mechanic and the smoke consumable pretty turned DD's into pseudo-submarines, since... forever, lol. The whole niche/role of stealthy hunter/stalker/assassin should have been that of subs... but the DD's got it. So the subs are now some kind of an awkward "homing torp" specialists, with wonky pings and "Get-out-of-jail-free-card" dives, which look soooo dull to play. It's such a gimmicky and narrow niche that doesn't seem to serve much purpose, in my eyes.

so dds get even more workload while bbs wont even dare to leave the spawn area

WG should have just stuck with: "There will be no subs in World of Warships" Yep, my sentiments exactly. They should bury this stinky fish of an idea of theirs and never bring it back.

So... just like with Carriers... A class without a proper skill-based mechanics AND without skill-based counter-play... It is turning into exactly what I expected it to be from the very first second they announced it.

someone clearly sent some Mk48 ADCAPs back into the past, that homing is ridiculous

A very casual WoWs player here, the kind of guy with an account as old as the Beta but with only a few hundred games mainly playing cruisers. However I played quite a few submarine sim. Just wanted to say that they couldn't have done this class worse they just missed every single element that could have made the class interesting here is why: -Homing torpedoes: one of the main points of sub games is too find a firing solution for your torps. We could have hoped for the same here after all every class has to manually aim his main weapons in WoWs but not the sub... They even could have given a twist to it with the ability to launch torps with curved trajectories. And of course being only able to shoot at pericope depth against surface ship so there is a slight chance to hit him with canons if detected. I guess they could keep some kind of homming for underwater sub vs sub to not make it ridiculously hard. -Underwater vision of the sub: since the sub is hard to detect they could have actually made the ability of the sub to detect surface ships from underwater different. First no shared detection with allies and second he can only "see" unidentified ships (read he doesn't know the ship class) if not at periscope depth, but since it's given by an hydrophone he can see any ship in the area where the player is pointing his camera. Periscope depht could be a mix of both. -Diving and surfacing: Both actions could be a bit longer so the player will have to anticipate a bit. USA's subs gimmick which basically sounds like crash diving could be a diving option given to everyone. The drawback of crashdiving would be that you can't set up yourself at periscope depth (you'll be sent deeper instead) so you wont be able to counter attack immediatly. -Gimmicks: Most gimmicks sounds uninspired and boring which is sad since we got exemples a sub gears and weapons who could have been used as gimmicks for the game. Heres the most telling exemple. German subs could be able to launch a few FaT torpedoes. A FaT (Flächen-Absuch-Torpedo) is basically a torp that automatically starts making U turns. In WoWs it means a torp that you may have to dodge multiple times or if the sub player is a bit creative hitting enemies camping behind an island with the U turn. We all knew the submarine would be hard to implement which is why they said originnaly that they didn't want to make them. But if you've read what I wrote above you may realise even more how they screw it up to the next level, these are not WW2 submarines, these things are (underwater-)spaceships XD.

"I know, let's take the game, which is already slow, and make it EVEN slower and more passive!" - WG, trying to replicate Warplanes

WG: " Lord Spreadsheet knows it all, He is our SAVIOR!"

Un realistic stats for unrealistic battles. There is a point where things brakes as hard as you try to arcade it.

If you spend so many ressources to make a new class and still get it wrong after so many years, maybe this class just doesn't belong in the game in the first place...

You it's gonna be bad when ichase leads with "yeaaahh"

can WG just put this idea out of its misery?

I just don’t feel like there’s a place for such a specialist class in a 12v12 game. Trying to balance them will just end up making everything shit

They should just scrap the whole ping, homing and citadel mechanics for sub torpedoes, and instead give subs torpedo armament on par with same-tier torpedo-focused destroyers. Then there would be actual tactical gameplay with how to position yourself for a torp strike and where and when to launch them. Subs would still differ from such destroyers in being even stealthier, but slower and easier to catch for someone who does manage to figure out where they are.

In real life submarines never worked in fleets, it was too hard to coordinate, too easy to friendly fire, it was abandoned by all major navies by world war 2. Yet wargaming persists, especially as they’ve fallen into the sink cost fallacy.

World of Warships: Where the World War II submarines have 21st century torpedoes, carriers can't launch their entire air wings, and battleships are also aircraft carriers

OOF. Trust me, it's not just bad over here. WOT is also about to get murdered.

Just what every one wants homing torps. Good luck getting battleships to ever want to push in

Same as always, seems the graphics team are killing it, the models look good and the underwater-feel feels pretty good, you know what I mean? But the balancing department seems to have no idea what they are doing... I loved the aesthetics when the CV rework came... The gameplay... Well, if they even cared to listen to the playerbase, they would know the majority hate them

Here's how you know that CV's and submarines don't belong in this game: this game is about battling other ships. CV's don't do that, they're basically just a pucker factor that the WG gods have ordained we have to live with. And submarines are stealthy ambushers, they CAN'T battle, only ambush. The only thing good about subs is, surface ships at least have some means to fight back.

WG's core business: throwing things off balance and have the PR department manage the outrage. If WG were restaurant, Gordon Ramsay couldn't help them.

some ideas to improve gameplay. -instead of pinging to give torpedoes homing, the purpose of sonar is to be the eyes of the sub. a wide angle ping that gives the position of ships centre of mass at the time they were hit by the ping, this won’t tell what type the ship(s) is or how big, and a narrow angle ping only able to hit one ship. This spots the ship for the team and multiple on the same ship can give course the course of the ship to help with aiming. If a ship is hit with a ping (wide or narrow), the player is told which direction it came from. -the torpedoes aren’t sonar guided, at best their magnetic. to represent this, low tier subs get dumbfire torpedoes like destroyers and cruisers, high tiers can get weak homing when the torp is near a ship (including allied as the system realistically is indiscriminate) -if submarines are torpedo specialists, then they should have multiple torpedo types/variants as ammunition options. speed/range/payload could vary between options or AP/HE and more advanced torpedoes and consumables become available as you advance through the tech tree. these could be magnetic, deep water, hydro acoustic

Getting a devastating strike achievement as a submarine with the secondary gun was the cherry on top

I really tried to give subs a chance testing them on the PTS but they are just awful, boring to play and even more boring to play against. This whole project is an exercise in failure. Although if you love camping long range HE matches then subs are your best friend. Only good thing with subs is the klaxon for the horn.

iCG, It just occurred to me. playing subs was "monochromatic". is the word I was looking for. when completing the obligatory WG PTS review, that IS the thought I was trying to come up with. hearing you trying to describe sub play, finally brought it out. so thanks again!

And the video ends with Devastating Strike to a sub that was at 1 hp in the last 3 mins :D

Wonder how the ww2 subs would be in war thunder. Edit: and yeah the homing torps are so stupid. Back when we had them the first time in the Halloween event they had no homing torps

Mk48 ADCAP makes perfect sense. next Russian cvs will have laser AA and VLS supersonic tomahawk missiles.

I'm really wondering: Do the gamers want subs or is it just WG?

Steel ocean has been my best experience with subs for a long time

At the arcade end of the spectrum, subs were very cool in Battlestations Midway. Can also be satisfying in simulators to those with patience.

This is literally Wargaming approved cheat mode / aim bot.

To be fair, bots are stupid, and everything seems OP fighting against them. Subs are more like the moles in Whack-A-Mole, once the other team sees you, you are in trouble. You need to be on surface or at Periscope depth to hit close targets, and everything can nail you then too. Your own team will consider your presence trivial, because by the time you approach a target, everyone else has either ignored it, or blew it out of the water. Subs, slower than others and with limited range. You are at best a naval mine hoping an enemy gets too close, after being ignored by your team.

I came back 2 years later and subs are still not added to the actual game, that's good

Him: says subs are boring and dumb Bbs now: we just sit and snipe no more brawl CVs: planes go brrr CAs: island Kemp Dds: fuck is that a cv? HP go brrr

I wish they had never allowed the homing feature of the torpedos

They need to mix up the armament a bit. Allow for the use of deck guns as it opens the doors to many more interesting Cruiser Subs such as the HMS X1 which could out gun some destroyers on the surface or the French Surcouf with it's dual 203mm guns. Asides from surface weapons such as those which would make the gameplay far more interesting I would suggest adding more types of torpedoes. Passive acoustic torpedoes, maybe mine laying in a sort of area denial role. Why not try some weaker but easier to use proximity detonation ones for those quicker and more maneuverable targets. Give them a reason to want to sneak around close to enemy ships staying stealthy and sneaky setting up traps and ambushes. It makes the gameplay more active and allows for more options in my opinion.

I played the Silent Hunter series back in the day and ngl i was a tiny little bit excited for subs. But the way they are implemented reminds me more of DDs with additional gimmicks. They are so quick and nimble without any emphasis on positioning and pre-planning that i don't think i'll get a silent hunter vibe from them.

Let me summarize the good side about the submarines: Art department carried (again) and we can forget about the rest.

Cherry on top is the Dev Strike at the end with 1 Secondary hit LMAO

I just wonder why wg dont do a poll with say 4 options 'which do you want to see in game? 123or 4 and see what the playerbase wants its not hard and makes business sense.

Why the heck WG didn't give the airstrike consumable to all battleships? Makes no sense. Those battleships r completely helpless.

This looks like a retread of the CV rework. Simple gameplay on one side, no or almost no viable counterplay on the other side. The draw of the submarine is in the silent hunter type gameplay where you are the lone wolf hunting ships. In a fleet role they are boring because they are only usable for either patrol duty or finishing ships. They are not good at changing position (or it will feel quite unrealistic), they cannot have the capacity to do serious dev strikes to most ships because of the very limited counterplay. Basically CV rework all over again. And we'll end up with a class that is played by 1-2% of the playerbase and hated by the rest once again.

Guess I'm done with the game then. I said if they put in a totally pointless class that doesn't work and can only travel at pre-WW1 speeds, it would show they give no fucks about fixing anything

Screw the boring, unnecessary subs. No benefits to the game, just problems.

What do you want? Do you want to plot the torpedo course along with ship course and calculate for an intercept via radar/sonar?

Still hold the opinion that WG got subs right a few years back with the Halloween missions. But they just couldn't resist tinkering could they? I don't know of ANYONE who is looking forward to having a class that can fire homing torpedoes and stay underwater and not get detected. Why do subs need to have homing torps? DDs dont get homing torps? And just have the underwater work on a straight timer of 30 seconds with a minute cooldown. WW2 subs would spend more time on the surface because they were faster there... but not 25knts faster...

All I hear is that in future wegee will just keep buffing subs until they are like cv levels of op, just to keep people playing them like the cvs after the cv rework.

underwater, when you were targeting the sub, I don't think it was your sonar that was spotting him, I think it was the fighter planes circling nearby that kept intermittently spotting him. stopped spotting entirely when the sub dove.

I got busy and didn't have time to play around late April. After my schedule loosened up, I still didn't log back on. Still haven't. Only watched some videos on YT here and there.

WG is trying to make a round peg fit into a square hole

I thought they were pretty fun and I agree to a point that they are fairly simplistic (as is WoW) but what do you want them to be able to do? That is what subs were in WW2. Stealth is 100% your strength in a sub. You can hide from planes, no other class can do that. You can sneak into caps undetected. No other class can do that. Its niche, but I see an interesting role it can play in a PVP game. I hope they implement them soon and improve them over time, but I already think they are pretty fun, don''t play em if you like other classes IMO.

Any idea when these thing are coming to the public server?

this is terrible. Most players dont want subs in random battles. Homing torps in low tiers is bad. these torps making crazy turns is dumb, it's a class designed to break warfare and not something to balance. cv's still are a protected class against the one class they should be most vulnerable to.

I do have the words to talk about this class. Those words are, "I quit!" The whole thing is about giving unskilled players and children a class of ship that they can play arcade with. It is as if WG was trying to target some 10 year olds who have access to Daddy's credit card.

I don't see why are people so surprised, subs were a given that they will be a boring cruise underwater, the only thing that WG will do is make them less awkward but you can bet on that they won't be very fun.

I think you're expecting too much from a sub, it's a class which lives in opportunity strikes, it's considered a lethal ship because it's a stealthy ship with a lethal arsenal they may change the nations skills but it will never be a flashy battleship nor a nimble destroyer.

Chase: thats all I gotta say! Bote: shoots 1 shell at ship, it hits, kills ship. WG: Give that man a dev strike!

Why do WG hurt it's own product ? what I mean is: - there are games that are ways better in submarine / torpedoes gender - there are games much better at 3D piloting (as aviation simulators i.e.) So by adding a lass that was long before commented by players as unneeded, is laying the scene for some ( many IMO) players to go to those games. As for the rest, annoyed already by CVs, harrassed now by subs... they will simply quit to solitaire. Especially BB players.... We have this saying:"What is to much, hurts and becomes a vice" It seems it aplies to WG.

I pray the overlords at Wargaming NEVER bring submarines to WoWS: Legends!! They don't resemble submarine warfare one bit during the second world war.. Homing torpedoes are just ridiculous. Torpedoes couldn't even be depended on detonating back then, nevermind homing in on ships. The games "Battlestations: Midway: and "Battlestations: Pacific" got submarine gameplay correct! It was difficult to use torpedoes. But it wasn't about getting a bunch of kills in a submarine. They were a support ship and they weren't going to win or lose the battle for your team. It was the hunt that was so fun. The cat and mouse gameplay of submarine/anti-submarine warfare was so thrilling. Trying to get as close as possible while avoiding detection. Diving as deep as possible to avoid depth charges. It was so incredibly immersive. Submarines don't need to be the main killing machines that the other ship classes are. Just make them realistic and immersive and they will be fun to play.

I have fun with submarines, the issue, why people probably struggle is, that submarines have low influence. They lack in speed and range. CVs and DDs are so influence, because they have speed and thus flexiblity. They can react to situations. BBs are slow, if they are mispositioned, they lose a lot influence, but they still have range. So submarines will be the less influencial class, which is not bad, because some ships have to be the worst.

You want to play submarines, play silent hunter games, play cold waters, heck there is U-boat.

Seems to me the problem is the submarines don't actually do what submarines actually DID.

I just started to play Warships because my son likes to play, so I got on the test server to check out the Subs. From the outside looking in it seems they are being very cautious not to create another monster as they did with the wheeled vehicles in WOT.

I wish they make the deck guns of the sub models that had them USEABLE… sure they are no match against most ships but still can take down other subs or very low hp destroyers? Just WHY not let people use them… can be sometimes useful and FUN! Secondary deck guns are no fun.

1:15 -- RE: "... [subs] spend time on the surface..." -- ie. there is a hard limit on the amount of time a submarine can stay submerged. While I agree that this is a good thing (and realistic as well) the thing which most of the reviewers seem to be missing in this equation is that WoWS is not being played "in realtime" but with a hidden time compression, and submarines make this very very obvious, much more obvious than any other class of ships including the CVs. *PLUS,* if we consider the differential between the effects of time compression on the CVs to the submarines, well it only gets more and more ridiculous. Granted, I doubt that the gameplay would be improved by a realtime clock.

Subs are the Shinobi's of the sea and most definitely have a place here as the stealth warriors.

still say you should have to target the ship, ping it then launch the torps. they should not home in after being fired.

If torpedoes are going to hit that fucking hard, then the ping cooldown needs to be WAY higher. If the only way to get rid of the homing stuff is to use a 3-minute cooldown Damage Control Party, then just get pinged again, that's bullshit. A homing ping should be something you use like a cruiser uses torpedoes: it's your big damage, not your consistent damage. So it should be on a similar cooldown. My balance thoughts (from an admitted noobie, but I think I understand how game mechanics interact fairly well): Lower torpedo cooldown and give them less damage. Then implement one of two options. Either 1) Pinging doesn't make the torpedoes immediately accurately home, but instead turns them toward the ping. You can keep pings as a low-cooldown option, but you have to keep accurately pinging the enemy to keep the torpedoes on target. Or you can fire good torpedoes on an accurate trajectory and just make small course corrections with the pings. This keeps the game loop short and arcade-y. It gives ships counterplay options, as they can still pull good maneuvers off to throw off your pings or the torpedo trajectory if they know where you are. It also means we don't have fucking radar-guided missiles in a WWII simulator. 2) Keep the pings as a foolproof torpedo guidance system, but raise the cooldown to be closer to a full minute. This is more of a sniper implementation, where you can, with a good shot, kill your target in one go. If you miss, it's going to be hard to get it again. This means that DCP can meaningfully interact with ping instead of forcing a battleship to blow a 3-minute cooldown ability with one you can replace in 10 seconds. I favor option 1. Or there's option 3: 3) Don't implement submarines.

I blame the community for that. People cried "WoWS is no rts", no one thought about how they want the CVs to be. People cried "we want subs", but no one thought how they should work. Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it.

Can't wait to play submarines, iam so hyped, looks pretty intense and balanced, awesome game design, from "we will never add submarines to the game because they are to hard to balance and won't fit" to this, oh man looks awesome

If I want to play/enjoy submarines, I go to Silent Hunter 3. The complexity makes that game enjoyable. But that level cannot be placed in a arcade game like WoWs. One thing I thought of torpedoes. There could be alternative armaments like in RL. You can have normal, deep water and homing torpedoes ( I know deep water torps were just a setup before you launch then), but they could have different stats. Like longer reload on homing and deep and/or different speed damage etc, but you can load only one type of torps in the tubes. And one more mechanic for fair play, if a sub spots a ship it should be seen only by the sub, but you can call out a target (for 20 sec in periscope depth) in exchange you will be spotted too. If you dive, you and the team lose sight too. This is only from top of my head. Don't worry @iChaseGaming for a future line there will homing rockets as new armament from cold war era..... :D

4:20 yes , but tbh , that is sumbaribes in the nutshell. Position and wait for oportunity.

If there's one thing we've learned it's that WG cannot admit failure.... So hello Submarines.

Ummm.. Errr… It’s seems… I don’t… Boring.. Well said sir…. There are no words for this boring dumpster fire.

Simplified game emchanics means instant grtification for the wales, and all that WG wants is to milk the wales as much and as quick as possible.

I feel the same way about aircraft carriers. I have about 12 aircraft carriers, but don’t sail them pretty much at all. It’s boring playing in aircraft carriers. The only thing that’s challenging about it is hitting the target. There’s nothing else to it. With surface ships everything is critical: positioning, speed, concealment, angling, supporting allied ships in your sector, etc.

I just see the homing torpedos as a test run for the next Gen ships they bring out that can shoot missiles.

I'm waiting for Frigates and Corvettes to be added next... Maybe Schnellboots (E-Boats), Fairmile B's and PT boats...

German homing torpedos could actually home in like this.

Submarines are much better for people with a lot of patience. It's almost the opposite of destroyers, in that while both ships types have great stealth, destroyers are more frenetic, while submarines reward taking time to get the best setup.

Subs have been in development for years. Years. I remember playing the original Halloween event and thought it was fun but not needed in ransoms.

I got frustrated so much playing subs this week. Torpedos wouldn’t even home in right. Thought maybe I was too close or something. It just feels like there’s an entity deciding whether or not your gameplay will go smoothly or horribly.

The ping and homing is silly though. Unless the ship is not paying attention it is easy to dodge most if not all the torps especially if you time the damacon well. The homing aggressiveness is precisely a double edged sword. It seems ridiculous but thats is actually the weakness of the torps. At least my feelings from trying them. I didn't like it too

WG: our players can't do too many things... *Proceeds to add asw to ships* Now you have to do 4 more things on top of everything you are doing.

They are are gonna do the same thing with subs that they did with planes. People are gonna scream and cry to God and anyone who will listen about how unfair subs are. WG is gonna nerf subs until they are practically useless and not even worth playing. Don’t waste your time.

Yes WW2 sekret ww2 wire guided-acoustic homing torps that function like an anti-ship missile with mid travel 90 degree turns xD

Forget gameplay, people insist on gameplay reviews but this is a product in WG's mind, they could be selling cabbages for all they care, as long as it generates profit. Submarines, CV's, DD's, Cruisers and Battleships, its just a product that they will make a shit ton of money on the line introduction and some premium subs from all from addicted players, sunken cost fallacy players and mostly new players who have no idea how predatory Wargaming is.

I just started playing subs today and I can already see the pattern: torpedo, sonar, dive, surface, repeat. then profit.

I have found that I life you can not reinvigorate an old Passion with a new toy. We try and sometimes it can keep us going a bit, but that ends quickly.

I just don't know about that new mechanic were after you run out of battery rather than coming up to recharge instead once out you can't go under anymore🤔

A nice balance would be slowing down the ping shot travel time to require more skill with placing your shot. Also either increasing the time interval in between shots. The consept isn’t a complete bad idea just needs rebalancing

they could have made subs with normal torpedoes (with little high damage)and not homing torpedoes and then player skills would have come in to play. The very thing which made them do so many iterations is because of homing torps because double ping will make it over powered and no ping make them useless.

Subs don't belong in WoWS. Period. Like Crew 2 doesn't belong in WoT. The concept is silly. That's why Chase has no words.

You couldn't spot him anymore because you went deeper and he went closer to surface. Simple game mechanic .

Chase, what would you add or remove to improve subs?

Its essentially aircraft carriers but like more interactive.

Originally, the gameplay was balanced around the idea of a kind of "rock paper scissors = BB, Cruiser, DD" thing. but both CVs and now Subs are just "We can literally kill anything" and don't follow the original gameplay design at all. IOW, they entirely ruin the original design parameters of the game. it's that simple.

Back then a sub would have been called a underwater boat.