@@dudeski5333 The second one was a Gulf Research parade car sold to John Maher of Leechburg PA. Raced it with a replacement engine.

​@@davesober2093....yes..the orange one I believe

So what did it sell for, you left us hanging...

It sold for $300,000. I believe the pre auction estimate was $700,000@@onazram1

@@markr9730 Hard to believe that's all.. thanks for responding

As I recall, the collector car market was down. A year or two earlier it would have brought much more.@@onazram1

Hechler Chevrolet was the only Chevy dealer that sold a 69 ZL 1 Corvette & a 69 ZL 1 Camaro.

The Copos had dyno'd at 585hp with street headers. Switch over to racing headers they gained another 30-40hp depending on which header you got.. then of course changing the manifold for 2 x 4 barrels added another 40-50 hp.. the ZL1 could make up to 685hp back in '69.. which back then was an insane amount of hp in a street car.

Mike, the convertible twin to this one recently sold at auction for over $3M. rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az23/arizona/lots/r0084-1969-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-zl-1-convertible/1317662

i would bet that there would be a couple of bidders who COULD fight it out for this car if it ever came to the gavel.....and that it likely would go over $5M

Great story! Appreciate it.

The story goes that a Chevy dealer wanted to homologate the ZL1 Camaro to qualify for some racing series which required at least 100 of them to be built. He ordered 100 cars, but after the first 25 or so were delivered to him, he told them to stop because they were so expensive and nobody wanted to buy them. By that time they'd already built around 50 and had several more lined up for assembly, so they ended up making a total of 69. GM ended up shipping the remaining cars to other dealers around the country so they wouldn't all have to be sold by the dealer who originally ordered them. If not for that guy, there likely wouldn't have ever been any Camaros built with the ZL1 engines.

Live wire is correct in explaining why so many more Camaros got this engine. It was all about the Drag racing effort at the time. Weight reduction is HUGE and the guys who were racing in the near "stock" Drag racing wanted this motor that GM was building already for pure race road racing cars without limits. To get this into drag racing at least 50 cars needed to be built for the street. That is indeed why 69 Camaros in 1969 were built. This engine was NEVER requested for the Corvette by anyone in racing. How-ever, Chevrolet knew that their Halo car should at least have the option available anyway. So the ZL1 motor made it's way onto the list of options. Why so few sold vs many more Camaros? Again it comes back to PURPOSE BUILT Camaros vs no good reason to order a Corvette this way. GM internal rules, back in the day, on option pricing explains a lot. GM required that no option be sold at a loss. As result of this the ZL1 engine had an astronomically high price tag attached to it of just north of $4,000. A crazy high figure in a Camaro that in base trim cost a less than the motor itself. Even in a Corvette this was kinda NUTS.....a $6,000 car lept to over $10,000 if you ordered a ZL1 . Tough pill to swallow for a 100-150pds off the nose of the car. In full out racing efforts there is probably a discernable advantage in the ZL1 vs the more pedestrian priced L88 option but in a street car or at the drag strip in the hands of a less than all out effort mere mortal drivers won't find it. In that thought alone......you get an explanation of why only 3 Corvettes ever got this motor. It was just so expensive and unlike the Camaro drag race teams nobody was actually asking for it in the Corvette at the time.

In 1969 I seen a 427 ZL1 Nova new for sale built by Dick Harrell. In a Chevrolet showroom.

I always heard a GM executive had the two vettes built for his use, play with, kind-of a company use car.

​@@Kenny-1958 Probably true for the Yellow car and maybe why it is so fully loaded.

you can look up the GM paint codes for the various years of corvettes and narrow it down pretty close.

@@MrChevelle83 already have, thanks

I remember 76 had a metallic brown but not sure how much the flake stood out, probably not a lot. I bought a brown 74 parts car once but it was pretty faded.

It was restored in the late 70's or early 80's, I remember reading a big story on it in a Corvette magazine in 1982.

LS-6 by 71 was emasculated with emissions, Car Craft magazine BLEW UP their 71 LS-6 Vette and the L-88 was far faster as it had a 850 Holley "double pumper" and in my experiences the 427 is a far better running motor. Same for Can-Am motors when the aluminum 511 cu/in Reynolds ZL-1 was put into Bruce McClarens Can-Am car @ Riverside for testing Bruce prefered the "short stroke" 430 cu/in ZL-1 motor...Not a 427 though as it was a larger bore and sorter stroke than a 427 motor. Sometimes "Bigger isn't always better".

Bill, I think Roger sold most of his collection but I'm pretty sure he still has the ZL1 and probably the L88's. Here is a link to their website. www.rogerscorvette.com/collection.htm

HA! I agree Seth!!

Makes sense. David Judski told me the price of these cars were over $10K in 1969 making them more expensive than any Cadillac. And who would want it? Loud, hot, and virtually undriveable.

😊😊

thanks for the update.

@@phibber it's a 54 year old fact, not an update.

It was not rated at 580. It was rated at 430.

@@davesober2093 ...the iron block L88 was rated at 430

​@@bobdavis3357 ZL1 was absolutely an L88 with an aluminum block. Initially, it also had a different cam, but other than the cam and block they were were the same. The heads were not different, nor was the intake and carb. The 2nd design L88, if I recall, also had the same cam. L88 actually made more power, due to the iron block sealing better. But the only differences initially were the aluminum block and cam, and then with the 2nd design L88 the only difference was the block. Both used the same 074 aluminum heads. And it was never rated at any 580hp, nor would it make that much even with headers. They'd do 540-550-ish with headers on a dyno, which was very strong. The motor in the Vette in this video dyno'd in the 540's, and that was with headers. Which is about exactly what it should make.

look at horse power depot - stingray people.

Ronnie, I'm not sure but I think David said it had some sort of 4-Speed but I'm not sure.

from my past knowledge the high rpm big and small blocks only had the muncie m22 4 speed due to they could tolerate the torque and rpm of the engines. the autos at that time could not handle the power (i cant site any sources tho)

@@MrChevelle83 The 2nd ZL1 sold in January and it was raced a lot and it was the M40 option a automatic transmission.

@@ZR2plowboy I stand corrected, Thanks.

@@MuscleCarMadnessGarage - sure they put a top quality m22 rock crusher in it - alloy = DREAM.

The White car has no official documentation from what I have read, only a letter from the original owner. It's also a much earlier VIN than the Yellow car.

Both the white/black coupe and the orange convertible are contenders for being the "other" ZL1... but neither have been confirmed because the owners refuse to have the cars inspected by experts, although the orange one does have a more convincing story. Just my opinion, but I think they're afraid of being told their car isn't the real deal. I've pointed out before (in other places) that this yellow car was a special build not ordered through a dealer, but commissioned by a Chevy executive, and therefore it may not be one of the two ZL1s on the official factory production list. If that's the case, it could be that both the white/black coupe AND the orange conv. are authentic ZL1 Corvettes...

Wrong

@@chalemi Don't just tell someone they're wrong without explanation. There are two other cars that are claimed to be regular production ZL1s, but neither have enough (or have ever shown enough) documentation to prove it. My opinion is that those two cars actually are the two regular production ZL1s and this yellow one wasn't on that year end tally that showed "2 ZL1s" were built, because it was a special order from a GM executive, the head engineer at the Corvette assembly plant. I don't think this yellow one should be considered one of the two regular production ZL1s because it was built with a heater and radio, which were supposed to be mandatory deletions with the ZL1 package. Therefore, this yellow one should be considered a "1 of 1" special production car... potentially making it even more valuable.

@@livewire2759 2

i googled this and found $3.2, 3.5, 3.8 million. I also remember the day this happened, and called my Friend to tell him. Steve has a 67 coupe l 88.1 owner 22000 miles so he would be interested in this.

@@phibber 3.85 million My bad. It's the only red-on-red 1967 L88. It's also an award winner with the highest amount of points you can get ...it's literally perfect.

It was ordered that way.

GM didn't choose the colour, the customer did.

It was a special order by the assembly plant manager/head engineer. He had it special built with all the bells and whistles and a bright, shiny color to attract attention, since he wanted the car displayed outside the plant.

@@aaronvector4750 Technically, the "customer" was a GM executive... so it sort of was GM that chose it! LOL The car was owned by GM for the first year or so, before it was sold to a dealer.

There are actually two other "contenders" that both claim to be "the other ZL1".... One is an orange convertible with an automatic trans that was ordered from Yenko Chevrolet (yes, THAT Yenko) in PA. It's still owned by the original owner who claims to still have the original engine and paperwork to certify it, but for some reason he hasn't bothered to "prove" that it's a regular production ZL1 to either the NCRS or Bloomington. Therefore, a lot of people claim that it's an L88 car that he put a ZL1 engine into, even though there is official GM/Chevrolet documentation that lines up very well with this car, indicating that it was likely the first ZL1 built in Dec. '68. The other is a white coupe with a four speed owned by a collector in Seattle. That car has been through multiple owners, but the current one has traced the car back to its original owner, who "confirmed" through a phone call and a letter that he ordered the car from a dealer in Utah. All of the documentation on that car has been lost (window sticker, tank sticker/build sheet, and dealer/order documents) but the current owner still claims, that because the original owner (who works for the IRS) wrote his statement on his official IRS letterhead, that is good enough to authenticate it. He has had the car judged by Bloomington (I think), and he claims that they did authenticate it, but like the owner of the other car, he hasn't shown any proof to the public so people are skeptical of that car as well. My opinion is that both of these cars are authentic, both built with the ZL1 package at the factory and ordered with it from dealerships. I believe that these two, the orange one and the white one are the two that the GM documents show were built as REGULAR production ZL1 cars, and this yellow one, which is also a 100% authentic factory built ZL1, wasn't counted on that list of REGULAR production cars because it wasn't ordered from a dealer It was a special build commissioned by a Chevrolet executive, the head engineer at the assembly plant... which is why it was built with a radio and heater, two options that were supposed to be mandatorily deleted with the ZL1 package, and therefore it is NOT a "REGULAR PRODUCTION" car. That's why I think it wasn't tallied at the end of production along with the other two REGULAR production cars. If that's the case, the "2 of 2" production ZL1s are the white and orange ones, and this yellow one should be considered a "1 of 1" special ZL1 and therefore even more rare than the other two.

@@livewire2759 orange ZL-1 will be going for sale at Sotheby's auction in Phoenix this month, expected to be the most expensive corvette ever sold

@@livewire2759 All 1968 and 1969 Corvettes had heaters L88 and ZL1 included. This rumor still persists but the fact is that only the 1967 L88 was heater delete.

@@thud9797 Yes, someone else already corrected me on that point... but the L88s and ZL1s still didn't have radios... except for this yellow one.

I've never been able to film a Grand Sport. I'd like to find one of those.

True, but most people didn't knew they existed in order to buy one. Even then, who would want one when the gas milage was maybe 8mpg, NO AC, NO radio, and drove like a stage coach.

@@MuscleCarMadnessGarage This was the 60s era, why would all cars have A/C? They only had radio's. Drove like a "stage coach", what do you mean? It was pretty much a racing car converted to production, why do you think it drove like a stage coach? It only used that amount of fuel if you drove it hard.

@@brantleyfoster021 Many cars had AC back in those days. This engine bay didn't have room for the compressor. A stagecoach was a stiff, rough ride unlike a Cadillac, which was like riding on a cloud (smooth). It was a race car and thus drank fuel. If you didn't drive it hard, Jutski told me it wouldn't idle properly.

@@MuscleCarMadnessGarage Only half the cars being sold came with A/C back then. It wasn't uncommon not to have A/C. You can't drive it hard under all conditions.

You are clueless.

But most COPO Camatos bought by one dealer and all with a vision of drag racing. Corvette had no such fanatical dealer and almost no one bought a Corvette to go drag racing.

There are actually two other "contenders" that both claim to be "the other ZL1".... One is an orange convertible with an automatic trans that was ordered from Yenko Chevrolet (yes, THAT Yenko) in PA. It's still owned by the original owner who claims to still have the original engine and paperwork to certify it, but for some reason he hasn't bothered to "prove" that it's a regular production ZL1 to either the NCRS or Bloomington. Therefore, a lot of people claim that it's an L88 car that he put a ZL1 engine into, even though there is official GM/Chevrolet documentation that lines up very well with this car, indicating that it was likely the first ZL1 built in Dec. '68. The other is a white coupe with a four speed owned by a collector in Seattle. That car has been through multiple owners, but the current one has traced the car back to its original owner, who "confirmed" through a phone call and a letter that he ordered the car from a dealer in Utah. All of the documentation on that car has been lost (window sticker, tank sticker/build sheet, and dealer/order documents) but the current owner still claims, that because the original owner (who works for the IRS) wrote his statement on his official IRS letterhead, that is good enough to authenticate it. He has had the car judged by Bloomington (I think), and he claims that they did authenticate it, but like the owner of the other car, he hasn't shown any proof to the public so people are skeptical of that car as well. My opinion is that both of these cars are authentic, both built with the ZL1 package at the factory and ordered with it from dealerships. I believe that these two, the orange one and the white one are the two that the GM documents show were built as REGULAR production ZL1 cars, and this yellow one, which is also a 100% authentic factory built ZL1, wasn't counted on that list of REGULAR production cars because it wasn't ordered from a dealer It was a special build commissioned by a Chevrolet executive, the head engineer at the assembly plant... which is why it was built with a radio and heater, two options that were supposed to be mandatorily deleted with the ZL1 package, and therefore it is NOT a "REGULAR PRODUCTION" car. That's why I think it wasn't tallied at the end of production along with the other two REGULAR production cars. If that's the case, the "2 of 2" production ZL1s are the white and orange ones, and this yellow one should be considered a "1 of 1" special ZL1 and therefore even more rare than the other two.

Agreed. Who would want one in 1969? Fred Gibbs could not sell those 1969 ZL1 Camaros either.

I believe so. It was sold recently at auction for over 2 million dollars.

Yeah, but it's a cross fire injection, 200 hp POS... I'll take a 500+ hp stingray over that any day.

There were 43 1983 pilot cars built and all but one was destroyed.

oh no it wont.....they arent even in the same restaurant

RT. All I can report is what was told to me. According to Roger, the white car was not a real ZL1. In the end, these cars are not accessible to many people. Roger has owned it for decades buying it for 300K. I say it was fun to see it, record it and talk to his son about it. Other than that, It's more fun to drive a muscle car on the street than to look at a unicorn sitting in a showroom for over 30 years. Don't you agree?

@MuscleCarMadnessGarage I agree on the driving, and appreciate that you were going by what someone told you. This car was in a corvette magazine, and they talked with the original owner of this car. My magazines are packed up for moving, not sure which box it is in. I will try to let you know what magazine and was late 70's or early 80's publication. I brought up fact checking, because cars like this go for millions of dollars, and misinformation can greatly effect value/price. I agree on everything else you said though.

Prototype... not a production model... wasn't built on the factory line, has no VIN, etc...

I thought the same thing. That’s why it’s in a museum and not someone’s private collection.

43 test cars built for 83 so not that rare, all destroyed but 1.

@@thud9797 it’s 1 of 1…

43 built but 1 of 1? Ok 🤣

@@thud9797 there is one 83 left in existence…so that’s not rare? If I had the only 87 in existence that wouldn’t make it rare…the key word in what you said is WERE…now there is only 1 left in existence that makes it rare

If it was they would have papers saying that which in turn would up the value even more. Just saying.

That's a great story, Joe. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, there were test mules (they don't really count) and a red automatic bought by a drag racer named John Maher

I think it was the 1968 Z/28 Convertible and the 2nd was 1967 Shelby GT500EXP Convertible (I think). I'll put those link below. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/osuZn9t23r2ag30.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kNaXqtumzai-c2g.html

Remember the video is old (2006), not a real Corvetts guy but was this before the the C6 and C7 were even in production?

That placard was made in the 90s, so that was a very true statement at the time... and the fact that it took Chevy over 40 years to make a faster Corvette shows that this car definitely deserved that title.

Like those vettes, by the 69 427 is the best of them all

Shad, You could be right. There are a lot of conspiracy theories cornering the ZL1 that include this car. Did you hear where Roger purchased it from?

I just edited this video for you and added CC.

@@MuscleCarMadnessGarage Thank ya Sir, you rock!

I believe you.

The L88s used 3 different cams in the 3 years they were produced. I don't remember the exact specs of each, but the '67s were the "smallest", at around .560/.580... the early '68s were increased to around .560/.590 or .580/.590, and late production '68s and all '69s, I'm pretty sure were .580/.600 but they may have been .600/.600... either way, the '69 L88s and the ZL1s used the same cams. Also in '69 the head castings changed to use open chambers just like the L89 heads, and both the L88s and ZL1s used those open chamber heads. The '69 L88s and the ZL1s were essentially identical, the only difference being the blocks...

@@livewire2759 Back in the seventies I sold parts for Chevrolet and Motion performance. I purchased three L88 short blocks from Amityville Chevy all had the 1969 .560/.600 cam in it! I know this because I still have all three cams. We used rollers then. The other big block cams were the .560/.560 and the tri-power .540/.560… My 1971 LS6 had the .560/.600 cam and Aluminum heads… 8 pistons and a ZL-1 cam and you have your ultimate LS7…

Because there is a 1 and 2!

@@MuscleCarMadnessGarage so it’s #3 rarest ? Guessing that there’s a 1 of 1 that isn’t a concept car . Great video . I was aware of the ZL -1 corvette but had no idea there was only 2 made 👍🏼

Well, you are right in that there was a prototype Shelby that I named 2nd Rarest car. It is a fascinating story. Here is the link. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n9p7ard-qtydXXU.html. Then the Rarest Production Muscle Car ever built was the 1968 Z/28 Convertible. Since it came down a production line, the previous owner claimed it was a production car. But that is debatable. Here is that link. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/osuZn9t23r2ag30.html. There was however, a very rare car I could not find and that was a 1970 Hemi Road Runner Convertible.

Rarest Corvette, not car.

Pretty sure it was the drag boat racer. As he went to jail/prison on drug charges. Early 80's I believe. My dad's drag boat motor was built by the same person who built the ZL 1.

Put down the crack pipe.

@Thud979 every drag racer knows you lose 30% from crank to the tires. You put down the meth pipe and learn about racing. Let me guess you drive a Rustang and tell everyone it's making 500hp when it's only 330 hp. LMAO 🤣 I run a dyno I understand the laws of physics. Ask anyone dumb fuck.

Rated from the factory at 430.

@@davesober2093 LMAO 🤣

@@justdust7964 You aren't bright.

Wasn't it an all aluminum engine like the L88?

Here is the number for Roger's Corvette and the link to that ZL1 page. I'm sure they would appreciate you keeping them straight. www.rogerscorvette.com/inv/special/69ZL1/index.htm 407-628-8300. Also here is a Haggerty article about the 1 of 2 Corvette. www.hagerty.com/media/news/this-one-of-two-1969-zl1-is-the-holy-grail-of-corvettes-could-sell-for-3m/. Here is their number. 888-216-2903. They got it wrong too.

That was raw footage.

Wouldn't spend anything on a stable of Mopar trash!

The only people who can determine the value of a unique car like this is the current owner and a potential buyer. The closest we can come to an estimation is to look at the '67 Corvette L88s, which recently have been selling between 2.5 million and 3.5 million dollars. Therefore, I'd say 4 million is a reasonable guess, however, if you walked in to Roger's Corvette Center with 5 million dollars cash, he probably still wouldn't sell the car. If he refused an offer like that, you could say that this car is actually priceless.

Doubtful. But I can show you where it is. www.rogerscorvette.com/inv/special/69ZL1/index.htm

Hard to find car.