Correct Pro Sound Gain Structure

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11 жыл бұрын

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Пікірлер: 279

@MarkEdwardsGreenside 11 жыл бұрын

jim - some feedback for you. When you start working on explaining the gain structure with the mic, you should explain what you are seeing in the metering. Explain that the metering is PRE the master fader. Also explain why the metering is only showing LEFT hand channel signal when the channel itself is panned centrally. IMHO you should set channel fader and main master fader to 0db and tune the gain on the trim pot for ideal input SPL level at the mic. Good on you for doing this video. Good work

@claytonbrown9736 4 жыл бұрын

This is by far the best explanation on gain structure. I love sound but I've been doing it incorrectly all this time. I couldn't figure out why I had all this humming in my speakers. I was excited to go try it out. When I did, I realized that my system at church was much cleaner with almost inaudible humming and hissing. Thank you man. Great video

@StadlerOpinion 10 жыл бұрын

I learnt this principal from an SABC sound engineer and University lecturer in South Africa in 1996. He called it 'Calibration'. You also made the gain structure clear to me again as well as the concept of adding or subtracting from the dB input ... Awesome. Thanks.

@jfredknobloch 10 жыл бұрын

Very good explanation of gain structure. I would hasten to add that the zero/unity gain position on any fader is the optimal headroom position and the input attenuator setting creates the optimal signal to noise ratio....ergo, set the input fader to unity gain before bringing up the signal source attenuator (line/mic level). That way you help whatever signal source you have (sometimes they are lousy AG DI signals, etc.) to be more noiseless, for lack of a better term, and then everyone is happy! Even a cheap console's mic/line transformers are better than most of the ones sold as DI boxes as the current is more stable--with the exception of the new Fishmans (I'm an acoustic player in case you haven't noticed yet?!) Also it's important to note that the travel on faders from console to console can be a bit different so the closer every fader is to unity gain (0db) the better! Nice job!

@williambalestrini 6 жыл бұрын

Well, here are my thoughts if you don't mind... 1. Make sure ALL FADERS are all the way down (off) 2. Make sure all TRIMS are all the way off 3. Set the MAINS to either unity, or my favorite, -5. Make sure amps are on and ready. 4. Select channel to test and turn on the PFL for the channel 5. Start talking/singing into the mic (if it's a mic). Slowly turn up the TRIM until you are peaking! That's right - know where you are peaking! Make a mental note. 6. Now Turn that Input Trim back to off (totally counter-clockwise) 7. Push that inputs' fader up to -5 dp (most people like 0 db but I like a bit more headroom to play with) 8. Now, with everything on and talking/singing, slowly turn the input trim up until you have the volume you desire, noting that you should never reach that spot where you were peaking as found earlier in step 5. This is in particularly a better procedure for digital mixers. For analog boards keep in mind that, If you use the Master fader too low, or the input fader too low, you are playing with WRONG VOLTAGES with the sound and will probably get some levels of distortion - particularly for lower-end mixers like Behringer, etc.. Also you want to mix sound with the faders close to unity in order to have the most adjust ability, since the faders' DB attenuation is in logarithmic proportions. BEFORE YOU DO ANY MONITOR MIXING, etc, make sure your INPUT trim is exactly where it needs to be, as changing it later will change EVERYTHING on the board - including AUX sends. WilliamTheSoundGuy

@FirebrandVOCALS 5 жыл бұрын

I agree man .. great information

@FirebrandVOCALS 5 жыл бұрын

Subbed

@TerenceKearns 9 жыл бұрын

Almost every time you see someone try to do a guide video on this topic, there is huge disagreement on the fundamental approach (usually accompanied by the sort of low-level insults we have come to expect from the youtube comments section). Thanks for the vid, I will keep these considerations in mind when looking at alternative advice. I am sure there are pros and cons. Always worth trawling through the comments. Kent Cotter: "The best and cheapass option is to go get a pair of powerd speakers and a shitty mixer with warrentys..." LOL I love the comment that came with the above statement. Loads of people can give "must do" advice which assumes money is no object. The best advice meets people where they are at. Cheers Kent!

@nicholasosczypko2248 4 жыл бұрын

It's a pretty straight forward process...what you failed to mention but already had set correctly was the channel fader which should be set around unity. Basically...set your preamp to unity, avoid clipping....set your channel fader to unity......set your master to unity....seeing a theme here?? Then adjust your input on either your power amp or powered speaker to the maximum volume you anticipate using. And done. This setup allows the mixer to have the best headroom and noise to floor ratio. This is how the mixer is intended to be used....it has the best signal it is expecting....if it needs to be louder, turn your amp up...or turn your powered speakers up..,before you begin the show. Cranking an amp or speaker up to 100% to start just puts wear and tear on your gear. Input to output is the signal flow. Every piece of equipment you add to the chain is expecting/and works best at.... 0db..... including auxes and subgroups on the mixer itself. Peace out.

@owenjoseph6097 7 жыл бұрын

Good thorough description of gain structure. It's amazing how much better results this approach can give you. Keep it as hot for a long as possible. Nice work

@1957scrambler 9 жыл бұрын

Nice job and a good, simple explanation of basic gain structure. I made a living as a professional live engineer throughout the 80's and your video is spot on. The only reason we engineers maxed the amp volume/sensitivity is so the headroom was available if it was necessary. It's pretty hard to run from the FOH desk to the on deck amp racks, when they're 150' away. Some people believe that since it was done that way it was the right way. What they didn't realize is we also put hard limiters on the final output to protect drivers.

@JetCityJester 8 жыл бұрын

Jim - Thanks - was watching your video trying to nail down setting our Mackie board (5 to seven actors on mics) and your comments on the amp sensitivity got me thinking - crawled under the stage and sure enough both dials were cranked up high; bringing them down eliminated a load of hiss and buzz over the mains.. We don't have a sound engineer; just a bunch of actors and computer guys that think they know their way around a board - thanks for these vids!

@justanotherguy658 9 жыл бұрын

Thanks dude...for making this vid and taking the time to explain it thoroughly. For me, it's always a pleasure to learn new stuff from everyone...from the nice ones, and also from the not so nice ones. =) Blessings!

@stephendverner 6 жыл бұрын

Excellently described. So many don't understand gain structure and why it is so important.

@soundman1402 4 жыл бұрын

7 years later, I chuckled when you mentioned a CD player. ;)

@filipedelbel 10 жыл бұрын

This video is awesome, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

@protoman247 6 жыл бұрын

Best video about Gain Structure on KZfaq.

@WorldAccordingToJim 11 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I have been running sound for 12 years so I thought I could share the things I learned over the years.

@davidbrucemusicvideo 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative video, thanks! Crazy thing is that I own this exact same board, but I am a solo grouping artist, and I don’t need a 16 channel board, I only need two channels. So I started using smaller boards, and I realized that I play 185+ shows a year for nearly 27 years, and this entire time I have not been setting up my getting structure correctly, so I don’t get enough headroom out of my speakers. Now I have to try to unlearn everything I was doing before and start from scratch.

@65Drums 7 жыл бұрын

Love this video! Thank you!

@HungPham-op3xs 11 жыл бұрын

Best tutorial on Pro Mixer, Mackie in particular. Big thanks.

@josephwalker138 4 жыл бұрын

You're a lifesaver, really appreciate this tutorial...

@audio2575 10 жыл бұрын

This is a fantastic video for a professional system that uses a single channel of an amp to power a passive speaker. It is essentially correct in this sense. The difference comes when using active speaker systems, particularly with many components working together to create your full-range sound. You stated the use of crossovers (or system processors) would be a piece of the puzzle, and in most situations, in these types of systems, this is where you control makes most sense. Your amp-speaker pairing will be matched or shaded to match the speaker at a (basically) fixed setting on the amp. When working with a large system which may have dozens or hundreds of drivers and 10, 20, 50 or more amps, the system processor is you stage to level your system to your space, with your input, and output of your console typically at unity. The other situation in recent years, is with the use of powered speaker systems that have no level control on them - particularly high-end products such as JBL and Meyer. Again, in this instance, you could use an external processor (not typical) or go to the EQ (or compressor) inserted or after the console, or output of your board. Fortunately, many consoles have internal trim controls for outputs and some have just a knob somewhere. Certainly not to take anything away from a very good video, but I just thought it was worth noting these items.

@DontFeedTheTrolls 7 жыл бұрын

Very nice! I'm with you on letting the mix do most of the work and keeping the amps as low as possible. Definitely the best way to preserve your equipment along with your hearing and your career in audio. Thanks. -D

@eyeheartchrist 8 жыл бұрын

Here I am again commenting on your video months later. After reading more on gain structuring (and applying it to real world situations), it makes tons more sense to me than originally stumbling upon this video. To add a nugget to recent gigs, I've landed a fairly solid gig at an Indian culture center, and based on videos like this, I continually receive compliments for my work, and every client tells me they'll call me for future gigs. It's amazing how recording and live techniques have such a correlation that if I don't understand in one area, it will eventually reveal itself in another. Again thanks a lot for your help!

@bikeamtn 9 жыл бұрын

I would agree with most of the comments made by engineers and in addition; prior to adjusting the setup for the console input gains, one will need to first send tone then pink-noise (from the console) down the complete signal path with all connected in-board & out-board gear and on to the amps. This will allow the reference signal to be setup (adjusted) for unity gain throughout the complete system. Then when you make say a 2dB fader adjustment (etc), that 2dB is relevant throughout the complete system. This is also a part of setting up the gain structure. This note will also assist you in understanding Tom Allen's comment of 'loading' (or pre-loading) the FOH amps (today most modern amps are using audio networking technology). Cheers

@1967gusb 11 жыл бұрын

boy!!! you're really great man, taking advantage of your kindness, I do have a pro sound mixer attached to a pbx rack, because my speaker are self powered, so would you suggest to set up the pbx to mono setting to perform live? any ideal will very appreciated, thanks again and god blessed you

@RayH42 11 жыл бұрын

You really know your sound stuff. Great vid, thanks

@rycher2007 9 жыл бұрын

I'm a drummer that has a small or I use for my bands gigs. I have always cranked the power amps all the way up. Never really had any big issues, but I'm going to restructure it with the amps 50% or so and see what it does. Thanks for the info...👍👍

@armandocabrales 10 жыл бұрын

thanks for the video its been great help and greater sound quality at our church

@bestefanga 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you Sir, your video really help me. God bless you. Please can you do a video on how to connect aux in and out to processors

@FariaRafiq 10 жыл бұрын

It is a good demonstration. and you are a good teacher as well... :)

@MrEpiphoneplayer 7 жыл бұрын

i've been mixing my live sound as a club artist for 20 odd years and someone in the know showed me once most of what is being said here in the vid when I first started and they heard me as a rookie sounding ok but not brill, it changed my sound forever and i would love to meet him again and shake his hand, the only difference was he set the main volume and output sliders at unity gain,set the gain on the channel to 0db (on the leds) when i sang at about the loudest i would be,left a little headroom on the mic channel slider below 0db and set the powered speakers at the loudest i would need them on the evening, usually 12 o clock, I'veset it this way for 20 years and people often think my duo is mimeing to a recorded track! whenever we done a show case and used someone elses kit I was amazed at the lack of understanding they had, and how awful their system sounded by comparison, we agreed that we'd always use our own kit for show cases after sounding bad on about three other artists systems that were set wrong, and now charity events where others use our kit EVERY other artist says wow your kit sounds amazing,so easy to sing on,loud and clear, what do you use?, I always say its not what you got its how you use it!lol I think most amateurs plug it all in, slide things around till they can hear themselves and think I can work with that, but to me it always about the sound and the performance! good vid.

@multitechaudiovisualinc.3889 8 жыл бұрын

I wish more young sound engineers would follow the steps in this video. Too often I see the opposite of this being done and the end result is less than adequate. Good job.

@iiDougieii 10 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for this. Like you said in the other video, I did learn the wrong way (watching someone at church and then filling in).

@rotempick 7 жыл бұрын

hi your video just improved my technic dramticly. and my recordings sound loud and clear. working down (or is it up?) the gain structure.. Thank's a lot :)

@danielkelly5112 5 жыл бұрын

Very informative and helpful. . Thanks a mill

@TimpBizkit 9 жыл бұрын

The trouble with turning the last gain stages up can be background noise. The trouble with turning the first gain stages up can be clipping in the preamplifiers so you're getting bad sound at a fraction of the highest output level. Moderation is key with every gain stage. Even on my laptop, if I turn windows media player up but the main level down I get quiet clipped sound through the built in speakers. If I turn the main level up but windows media player down I can get a clean sound that's louder than in the first scenario. Moderation is key. In everyday domestic setting I turn Dell PC speakers all the way up, but anything which picks up electrical noise (my laptop through a DBX driverack and Peavey IPR1600, or my Lepai LP-2020A+)

@watertails 6 жыл бұрын

Great advice here, nice one

@isidoreearl 8 жыл бұрын

i am not a pro and i find this video very helpfull. i run my p.a full amp and stereo vol on desk low. i will def do the correct gain structure. the question i do have though is how do i set the monitors. do i do it the same way. putting mon knob on unity and turning sensitivity knob on amp up?

@mixinginthebox 7 жыл бұрын

Lots of great info.Thanks...

@idebaalfred9410 8 жыл бұрын

tnx alot God bless u for this amazing video

@gjrendle 11 жыл бұрын

really help video and really easy to understand. Thank You

@chaneleniel 8 жыл бұрын

awesome, you were a great help thank you!

@danceoncardboardd 7 жыл бұрын

This is great, thanks!

@jesuslebron9421 7 жыл бұрын

Great Info Thank you!

@lookin2jam23 11 жыл бұрын

I am going to try setting my QSC (K10's) to 9 o'clock (1/4 way up from being off) and maximizing the mixer outputs as you stated. I always had the speakers cranked to 0db, but I approach the channel settings as you state in the this video. This is a great video and can't wait to try your approach regarding the speaker amp. Since it's powered, I thought it was a volume control or is it not?

@zeusl074 10 жыл бұрын

Good information for textbook gain structure! Always remember to use your owner's manual when in doubt :) Also, technology has come a very long way-to where blowing speakers from pops and stage noise is impossible due to limiters and compressors. FYI, most amplifier manufacturers recommend 50-70% power amplifier gains for headroom. Mackie (those guys build some of the strongest amps on the market) actually recommend 100% gain for most situations; however, you can turn them down slightly if you are using high efficiency speakers. Once again, this video is a good 'jist' of gain structure, but since equipment capabilities and designs vary, always use your owner's manual! Landon, FOH engineer

@GLUEALLSTAR 11 жыл бұрын

thanks for this great vid. one question though. i have a powered speaker which has a separate volume and gain control knobs and i would like to know how i should set the levels for these controls.

@fabiocordon1 9 жыл бұрын

Very good job ! ...thanks !

@Aaron-px2bg 7 жыл бұрын

Very good. Explained gain staging levels at mixer to speakers. Let the mixer do the work and speakers will be cleaner for Db levels.

@Mtaalas 10 жыл бұрын

But to prevent those sudden pops, one should always have a limiter before the amplifier... right? Not to say that making a gains structure in reverse order is a good thing, it's not. But many venues have their amps on full blast all the time.

@ldb6102 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! I have a quick question in regards to the pre-amp. When a powered mixer is used with built in EQ, a separate pre-amp is not needed. So in that case, the correct procedure, is input device gain, channel volume level, EQ, master volume level. Correct?

@ReXo31BbeaT 10 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video it's a really valuable insight into speaker placement . Just a thought , would having the top cabs pointing down slightly benefit the overall sound ?

@audioabbeyrecords 9 жыл бұрын

Nobody can make that judgement without listening in the room. Speaker placement and ears would dictate the answer to your question. I had a guy insist I change my angle to point down 7.5 degrees because he said they sound the best that way. I didn't have any sound up at the time. I did what he said and it sounded terrible. I changed them to horizontal level and it sounded much better. Too direct at the heads and faces of people and they don't get a nice ambient room sound (gyms and uncontrollable rooms are different). Walk around the room and listen listen listen. If it doesn't sound right or cover properly adjust the placement. Nothing is static.

@FrozenSide 10 жыл бұрын

What you say here is relevant only if you're in a small venue, like a bar, or have a huge array of giant speakers. Setting the gain like this will give you a very clean sound, that's true, but will be a pain in the ass when in need to set volumes and gain in real-time. The mixer's job is not amplifing, but balamcing and managing the sound sources. The amplifier's job is to produce the levels needed. Having the volume in the amplifier at about 2/3 of the way will give you safe loudness levels, and then the overall volume is controlled with the Main volume of the mixer. I've tried that, worked amazingly good, no feedback or hiss. And if you really fear for your speakers (the "pops"): well, you can always use a speaker with very big headroom and well-suited with the amplifier, or use a compressor/limiter, which is a must-have for a live-sound-guy, in my opinion.

@axxemannhatchet3530 7 жыл бұрын

I do not personally agree with this method, this is fine for studio but not for live, correct gain structure is to keep all subs and outputs at unity and LOWER your input gains, this cuts stage spill into mics and will give you more warmth and air in the mix.........however this is just the opinion of a 36 year live audio engineer

@drgeoffreywachirakimani9202 6 жыл бұрын

You are very wrong

@nicholasosczypko2248 4 жыл бұрын

Yup your 36 years have been wasted my friend....

@drecorbitt 6 жыл бұрын

Can you do a video on setting up alive speaker setup with powered speakers no amplifiers just a board EQ feedback suppressor and powered speaker system

@plumasganzo 6 жыл бұрын

Please explain how to use your compressor! Great video, man.

@samuelearu 7 жыл бұрын

Hi Jim, thanks for this. I got one question. What should I do with active speakers? Cheers

@shadowysound5855 9 жыл бұрын

There is one important point during channel gain structure, which is eq-ing. By eq-ing you either boost or cut some frequencies, which cause the level to either drop or increase. In terms of amp gain, I was also taught to keep the amp level at "0" or "max" as You said, I think it depends on the venue size and amp power ratio.

@justanotherguy658 9 жыл бұрын

Northern Muse You are right with the EQ concept. But as for the amp gain, when it's max out, you run the risk of blowing the speakers and eardrums of the audience, if some feedback or spikes (electrical current surges due to someone accidentally...."you-fill-in-the-blank") went through the signal chain. So, it's never a wise idea to keep it at max...especially if it's at the high power output stage...that is basically the amp. Unless the venue demands such setting, it's always safer to stay on the lower end. As for the "hissing", it's true as well. Don't max out the power amp, whether it's built-in or not, and get a poor SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio). You would want strong signal and minimal noise through the speakers. You're not the only one here being taught this method....countless, really. Personally, i prefer the method he said...the top down gain structure.

@Aaezil 8 жыл бұрын

If you have crossovers between your mixer and amp you can also set your final "volume" there

@whiteroom05 10 жыл бұрын

Good stuff. The only comment I have is when your talking about your amplifiers sensitivity and hearing noise through the speakers. I believe that is because the signal to noise ratio is very small. By turning up the amplifiers gain all the way up and not giving much output from the console, your essentially hearing the noise floor of the system and since there isn't much signal, the ratio is very small and thus hearing the noise floor. Having good gain structure is obviously one of the most important aspects of being a good engineer. Getting the best signal to noise ratio at the preamps and gain structure between components of the system allows the best operation.

@whiteroom05 10 жыл бұрын

Also, a lot of engineers forget that there are summing amplifiers between input channels and group busses. They are also between the groups and the master and can't forget summing amplifier between the aux sends and the aux master buss. Those are typically the "hidden" parts that can actually be clipping without the operator/engineer noticing.

@gkniffen 11 жыл бұрын

Good stuff ... So simple but so many people get it wrong.

@carltondavis7349 9 жыл бұрын

I partially agree with you. Inputs for microphones sure be between 10 and 2, 12 or 0 is sometime optimum. Remember your gain/trim affect the mic pattern of a wired microphone. A power amplifier is design for output. You should not ride the volume of the amplifier to control overall volume of sound in the venue; that is what the master fader on the mixer is for. Base on the power output of the amplifier you can operate the amp with the volume set at between 12 noon and 3 o’clock. We (live sound professional) operate our amp at ¾ to full volume. The Mixer is the work horse. The mixer/console master/main fader is set to get the desired level in the house. In my 30 + year of doing sound; noise/air/hiss has not be a problem for me with the amps at full volumes. fenderbender909 after you set you gains. One suggestion is set the channel fader of the low input then add the fader in order of the next loudest until you have a blend. All Vocal and Musician and/or effect should not be at the same level. When mixing think of a well mix record where thing are layer. You want to do the same with you live show. For example lead vocals out front. Background vocal underneath lead. Your music mix will be a little under the vocals. The music mix depend on the style of music and the music composition of the song. For instance some song the bass and drum to in the front of the music mix And below that is the lead guitar below that is the organ or horn. The next the leader guitar could be in the front of the music mix. Also it some thing in the mix are to loud then bring down the item(s) that are to Loud instead of turning up everything else.

@waskele.wabbit717 5 жыл бұрын

Carlton Davis come on man do a spelling check how we supposed to understand that

@greenpea9412 5 жыл бұрын

Charles I'm afraid your grammar is just as bad. He's some help..... Carlton Davis, come on man. Do a spelling check. How are we supposed to understand that?

@waskele.wabbit717 5 жыл бұрын

Hey I'm not giving you any points for grammar either LOL

@jimstanley_49 5 жыл бұрын

I agree. I always run my amps at -2 dB and main faders about -50 dB. /sarcasm If you can fill your venue with sound with the amps set where he has them, it just means that either you paid too much for your amps, or you sometimes work in bigger venues. If you have 5kW of amplification in a coffee house, the answer isn't to run the amps flat out and mix everything near -inf. This is also the first time I've heard that the gain affects a microphone's pickup pattern. I've always understood the pattern to be a result of the physical design of the microphone. I'd love to be able to save some money on a shotgun mic and just trim my SM58 for high directionality. (I'd also be interested in how this is different in "wireless" mics.)

@prn00 5 жыл бұрын

I believe Unity is at 0, and usually it is a good choice to mix around 0 because of the headroom you have there and because of the sensitivity in that zone

@audioabbeyrecords 9 жыл бұрын

We do a fair bit of live sound on stage so this may help some of you folks here. For ease and without getting too wrapped up in the theory of gain structure I choose a hybrid. First I bring every fader to unity. As we go through songs I try and mix the 14 channels with the input gain as well as considering how I am changing volume with the EQ. If I cannot nudge the input gain at all or just a little on a particular channel I drop the fader to -10. Thats it... all channels are on -10 or unity. I push all levels pretty hard and leave the Master at -10. Set the amp volume on my AWESOME powered QSC's between 30-50 percent of Max. Then I go back and adjust the Master fader to whatever the room volume should be and voila near perfect sound with no noise. The reason I do this is so that each time we set up in a new room the faders automatically are set and I know if they have been moved. Accidentally knock a fader down... no problem just stick it back to unity or -10. It is not hard to remember which are which and if you do make a mistake you will notice the volume difference immediately and move the fader to the other position. We have walked into a room with no house engineer, setup the gear, and in 20 minutes our sound check is complete with great comments about the mix at the end of the night. It does take many hours through many months of listening to hone the skill but, setting up the gain structure in this way is actually way more intuitive.

@tamaliibandsydney9085 5 жыл бұрын

We all have different ideas. .so for me your idea can blow speakers up..but good on you bro that you can your what you know with us..gn

@kjschultz2 10 жыл бұрын

Keep in mind, power amps will run much hotter at low sensitivity settings due to the internal attenuation process. The amplifier will convert attenuated energy into heat.

@volodumurkalunyak4651 7 жыл бұрын

No, all the amplifiers have gain (volume) controll at their very input stage where signal is low on power. No matter how you'r gain structure is set amplifier will be equally hot for same output power

@jouebien 10 жыл бұрын

I suppose I do something similar. Set master to temp position - just to make things audible (I normally do things by ear and with a little looking at DB solo level). Then move a channel fader to a temp position and after adjust the Gain and the fared. After that the master is adjusted to cater to the size of the event (I run powered wedges + Woffers as FOH with a set backed off Gain potentiometers = I don't have to worry about an amp setting). Through out rehearsals I end up moving both masters and channel fades around a little until I have the better output balance and mix.

@xWhetux 11 жыл бұрын

This way the signal to noise ratio is at its most possible best, and the system will be limited before the amplifier's clipping point thus safe. It also means that by looking at the desk's master metering, you know that if you're getting close to clipping the master's metering, you're in dangerously close to tripping the system's limiter and making your mix sound gross. Helps you see your limits/ Hope this was helpful. Thanks

@jamesbrooks9321 8 жыл бұрын

This video would be better titled "How to set yourself up to need to run on and off the stage during a performance in order to adjust your amps"

@DiscernDnBnDuB 6 жыл бұрын

Haha! I was just thinking the same thing

@jamesrbrindle 6 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly. When your production tent is a fair run from the stage and the amps are under the stage you ain't adjusting them. Besides a lot of high power amps nowadays don't have volume / sensitivity / gain on them or have a recessed pot so they're set around 75% nominally anyway.

@allengoodwin7043 5 жыл бұрын

That's why he left some leeway and sound checked it. If your live show needs you to keep playing with the volume throughout your show... Meh, do what you want with your equipment. Maybe a compressor would help, too. The point is to run the amplifiers as cool as is feasible for the situation with as little unpleasant spikes hitting your speakers as possible. Less overheating, less wear and tear, equals longer usable life for the amp as well as the speakers.

@griffin8062 4 жыл бұрын

If you have a very dynamic show, you will want to set your amps higher.

@Sonidozenteya 9 жыл бұрын

A good video really helpfull

@Serie56sfm 7 жыл бұрын

good video thanks

@FirebrandVOCALS 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome 😎

@Chillos100 9 жыл бұрын

thnx a lot for this..

@markwillride 7 жыл бұрын

How about opening the manual to your mixer and see what the board manufacturer says. For our Behringer analogue board it's pretty close to the video. Same for our Allen and Heath board. He's not saying use the amp knobs for precise volume control during the show. Remember he didn't have anything on the board maxed? He's using the amp knobs to get us in the middle of the overall volume we'll need. You still use the channel faders and main faders for detailed adjustments. The mix will determine final channel fader settings. Granted newer equipment is quieter and working from the amps first isn't the problem it used to be. Another benefit of setting this way is that you maximize the ability to make fine fader adjustments. If you only need 1/2 an inch of travel on a fader to go from silence to full usable volume, you'll have to be really careful when you touch it. That's why better boards have longer faders than some low end models, to make your life better.

@Zickcermacity 11 жыл бұрын

Another way of looking at it: It's not how loud something is, but the voltages each piece of equipt in the chain is "expecting" to see coming in. If one piece is SLAMMING a voltage into another that is wayyy above the max the other piece expects, it will be distorted and possibly clipped. Just make sure, via whatever meters exist on your mixer & outboard gear, that your RMS and peak levels are above a certain level but rarely enter the yellow or red zones, and you should be OK.

@joelbabu6426 8 жыл бұрын

If u can, plz upload the video of Yamaha MG 166cx , using eq section.

@pbuchta1 8 жыл бұрын

First you need to give an explanation of the PFL (Pre-Fader Listen) button on each channel. The PFL/solo button is tapped before the Solo and fader controls. It does however follow gain, low cut, and eq on these boards. Not true input attenuation as you suggest, but actually better than measuring just the mic input. It then passes this part of the signal only to the headphones in solo and channel's meter. It doesn't affect the mains. More advanced boards and systems, such as the DL1608 series have this input meter on each channel in back of the iPad fader. On regular analog weighed meters the setting is usually normal peaking at -6db for regular talking. Singing will be similar depending on the scream effect of the singer. Instruments will be different.

@kwabenaasuming994 10 жыл бұрын

dude i agree with u fully! I'd do the same for a live situation...........

@DJZIKOPAUL 8 жыл бұрын

in this mackie console pls tell me details about the stereo patching with full range speaker also with sub?

@hoangtieu4407 8 жыл бұрын

Hi Jim, may i have a question? i have wireless microphone, how much volume on the receiver of microphone, i have to turn the volume on. Also laptop, iphone and dvd player. Before setup gain structure. Thanks

@1175joel 10 жыл бұрын

I agree with this setup for recording but not for Live sound. Feedback happening before i can hear myself in the mics. The more Gain you give on the mic`s input ,the larger the Polar pattern of the mic becomes,picking up more outside noises and increasing feedback. I rather have lower gain on the mics but a slightly more increased chanel fader and output fader to bring back the max volume to the amp`s input. My own thoughts with the equipment I have.

@Scy 10 жыл бұрын

May wanna note the difference between 0dB on an analog mixer and 0dB on a digital mixer. On a digital mixer you should get your input level (after gain) around -6dB to allow for headroom.

@stuartjones5664 11 жыл бұрын

nice. could you do one explaining the 'gain' control at the top of the board (just under the inputs!) for different kinds of input devices like say a bass guitar pre-amp, cd player, electric drumkit. like I mean if you used the 6mm connection. cheers :-)

@Heavy_Distortion 11 жыл бұрын

great vid. the suspense is killing me.

@MrLerosh 10 жыл бұрын

cool,,after years of doing it wrong ,,,will now do it right ,,,rgds

@jesusvivian 8 жыл бұрын

I always crank the F4ck out of everything. blast out gain, faders, eq's finally i get a 12" ruler and move all the eq faders up in one quick motion make sure my amps are in bridge mode .5 ohm load if possible. and it sounds badass. all my customers are happy and as usual I get complements all the time. J.K. ;p

@Doug_Diego_Cazadores_Cassidy 8 жыл бұрын

I cant wait to try that ruler trick!

@MrHooskerdu1 8 жыл бұрын

Hehe, I enjoyed your post. "You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. You're on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder. ... these go to 11 ..."

@mgtow-balance3409 6 жыл бұрын

+jesusvivian yo i read that three times, fuckin funny as shit!!

@roylerroycerickson 7 жыл бұрын

How do you ieep gain structure if you were running into a powered speaker from a powered mixer or into an amp with a channel volume and a master volume?

@Andre50151 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your video. Really Need tips and advice. I am a singer that has a lot of vibrato - bass - baratone vocal gymnastics and a very very sensitive ear. I need to learn to set my mic so i get the best out of it and give the sound I want to give. can you help__``???

@andotski_ 10 жыл бұрын

Might be a stupid question but: I have a pair of Mackie SRM450 powered speakers as my mains onto a Mackie board (forgot which one but it's a few years old). I don't have a separate amplifier like you do here - it's on the back of the speakers. Does it work in the same way? It's a pretty small church setup and mostly used for like 4-6 vocal channels including the pulpit mic, and at some point a keyboard.

@Roger15ohm 11 жыл бұрын

Hi!! thank you thank you. From Gain to EQ and amp..... pew.

@xmanxmansyr3147 7 жыл бұрын

Awesome

@mocutz 7 жыл бұрын

I sometimes get that hiss sound when I have my controller and just speakers. What should my setting be on my mixer and also my speakers

@parabalani 9 жыл бұрын

What if I don't have a seperate amplifier? The sound from my mixer goes directly to 2 speakers, but you can control the volume on the speakers (so I guess it's similar to amplifier), is it ok?

@gerbenbesselink6971 10 жыл бұрын

This is the one and only right way to set the system correctly.

@nadenpaul 4 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks for the video man ! 1 question though. When setting the gain on the channel, am I supposed to keep the fader all the way down then use the gain and see if the metering is jumping on a the first yellow line, and then move the fader to unity? Or do I raise the fader to unity and then work on the gain ?

@whamni 2 жыл бұрын

The way I do it is, Put the fader just below Unity and the master gain just below Unity, then adjust the gain and watch the meter.

@kevinlocke6120 7 жыл бұрын

Running a channel with that much pre gain will cause clipping/square waves. Sending a clipped signal to an amp then amplifying it is the best way to knacker your speakers. Max your amp, run master and channel faders at 0 and then set each channel to the desired volume using their individual gain/trim pots. This will keep them as low as possible. Gain = Noise. Keep those channel gains LOW.

@xWhetux 11 жыл бұрын

The idea is that every piece of equipment that the signal passes through on it's way to the amps will add noise because no gear is perfect. What I was trained to do was: 1. Play pink noise (every frequency simultaneously at even intensity) through a channel strip 2. increase channel gain till it's clip light just comes on. 3 Set channel and master faders to unity ensuring the master bus also clips at this point. 3. Turn up the amps till they just clip then back them off. 4. Set Limiter. Safe.

@BenLubberts 10 жыл бұрын

Somebody might have already mentioned this... but at 5:27 you mention that unity gain is sometimes referred to as an "infinity" symbol. I don't believe that is correct. Infinity is only used at the bottom of the fader to represent infinite attenuation. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right you should really update your video with pop-ups to correct misinformation. cheers.

@bxb45678 9 жыл бұрын

The symbol ∞ is for infinity it represents unity sometimes. -∞ (negative infinity) is the bottom of the fader to represent all current being blocked. It really should be standardized but it isn't.

@jimstanley_49 5 жыл бұрын

@@bxb45678 the markings next to the faders represent gain. This is universal. Unity is where you set the fader to get no gain, and the fader is ideally having no effect on the signal. Positive infinite gain is not only impossible, but it also makes no sense in the context of unity gain. Any manufacturer who marks their equipment with positive infinity on any scale should be shunned.