Yasheng Huang has been betting against China for decades, it's become a sad obsession at this point. In 2003, he published the article 'Can India overtake China', where he argued that China's bureaucratic system was not conducive to long term economic/technological development, and that India would ultimately overtake China. We can all observe in 2023 how China vs India turned out LMAO; but Yasheng Huang continues to push his agenda. Nevertheless, I appreciate Manifold for bringing us a variety of guests on a consistent basis.

不管这个podcast的主题质量如何，现在所有中国人都得感谢这位哈佛教授作为战略的一员忽悠局为中国崛起所作的贡献。他的课程对欺骗美国统治精英起了关键作用。贡献至少和章家敦的贡献不相上下

Hating on the empire's enemies is one of those industries where someone can be wrong their entire life and still have a long career. The real irony here is that it's this guy who lacks the cognitive capacity to ever innovate beyond the same tired colonial tropes about uncreative asians, and yet he has a job at MIT b-school, which really says it all.

Just another Gordon Chang.

As a human civilization, the PRC is imperfect and to expect perfection, especially given a lack of mathematical optimization, is wholly unreasonable. However, ultimately, one cannot help but be driven by objective reality and measurable parameters - for instance, the fact that the PRC had not only experienced such dramatic growth in its scientific ecosystems, but so much so that it now dominates even the entire world combined in certain niche subfields, is a reality that is very difficult to not appraise given one's own STEM orientations. Huang recognizes the imperfections and weaknesses of these Chinese subcultures that had existed historically, yet, the PRC continues to progress and modernize past its western counterparts (indeed, modernization is not synonymous with westernization especially if one realistically recognizes the regressiveness of western cultures and political systems today), and, at times, it would seem that Huang is stuck in the past still. Indeed, one will continue to witness how the PRC will modernize its educational and bereucratic systems moving forward into the 21st-century as has been the case throughout its entire history while young Chinese counterparts dominate in the PISAs and the international STEM olympiads. One can also notice a peculiar phenomenon where it is the proportion of Mainland Chinese who are among the most vocal critics of the Chinese educational system, that it lacks creativity, that it lacks an emphasis on critical thinking, and so on and on, as the Chinese educational system continues to emphasize such aspects and demonstrate to be significantly more G-loaded than, say, conventional American counterparts - in many other subcultures and demographics, as in American ones, they do not even know that their own educational system is sorely lacking in creativity, at least, not to the same extent as their Chinese counterparts. Perhaps the fact that a proportion of Chinese counterparts somewhat obsess, in relative terms, over the quality of public education in the PRC, is a good sign nonetheless for more things to come - and, let's recall that, according to all measureable parameters that one can find, Chinese students perform significantly better including in tests of critical thinking than every single other demographic on Earth, including the Chinese-American demographics in general (note that the PISA tests in recent times increasingly emphasizes critical thinking and increasingly penalizes rote memorization). An interesting video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f8mhd8qcld3GXYU.html

I'm impressed with Mr. Huang's fluency in English. In prior centuries similar examination was used mainly on literacy, topic essay and caligraphy. Managerial ability was inferred. Only US would go to war to stop China from over-taking its hegemonic primacy.

Passing the exam is just the beginning of one's career in Chinese bureaucracy. Even进士don't automatically get official assignments; most start as apprentices in various ministries. So Dr. Huang's narrative only touches the superficial parts, not the depths. It's like examining the 1st grade teaching and call it the educational system.

This fella just want to sell his books and make money. In the west, 'China bashing' is always a evergreen topic to ensure sakes.

Mr. Huang says innovation goes down when there is less collaboration with those outside China. He thinks that innovation will decline. There are many conditions to that statement. If China is ahead in a field of technology such as battery and solar power, China’s innovation will not decline by not collaborating with those outside the country. The opposite happens; those outside China will decline. If China is behind in technology, they will want to learn and not necessarily collaborate because if a patent arises from it, there may be a conflict of interest between the countries According to Science.0rg “China has slightly edged out the United States in the number of most cited papers, a key measure of research impact.” It says, “People are writing off China, [saying] they’re putting out a lot of stuff, but it’s not good quality,” says Caroline Wagner, who studies science policy and innovation at Ohio State University, Columbus. “That’s just short-sighted.”

Prof Huang comments on imperial competitive examamination stunts innovation is interesting as British East India was so impressed with 19th century Chinese administration, they brought it back home. Perhaps that is why the British empire started sliding not long after their civil service started implementing the Chinese system in the last 19th century.

Another great episode. I do wish scholars/analysts would discuss the pros and cons of a policy, rather than just focus on the cons. For example, Huang focused on the cons of Xi’s consolidation of power and closing off of the tech/economic collaboration with the West. But it would have been interesting to hear what motivated Xi to implement his policies and what are its advantages.

Prof Huang is not optimistic about China s future. The government is autocratic, not perfect but it did China a lot alot of good. Today it is no 2. Soon to be no 1. I do agree that China need to be less autocratic, and allow more freedoms of thought and deed. But, the biggest aspiration I hope for China is for it to study English, and be good at it. It is the international language now.

It’s ashamed that as a Chinese person Huang has such a negative view on China. Of course it all originates from the “autocracy” thing - the core of all evils. Never mind the fact this autocracy lifted 800 millions of its citizens from abject poverty; never mind that this autocracy government has transformed the nation from one of the poorest countries in the world to a financial and technological superpower in a short span of 40 years. Any person of Chinese ancestry should be proud of China’s achievements. Huang is stuck in this autocracy rut and can’t see beyond it. Obviously, he has latched onto this shinny new object he sees in the west - the openness, electoral system, constant refrain on human rights, freedom and democracy. Yet he fails to see the atrocities the west and the US in particular has leveled onto the world. The forever war, forever killing and the forever dominance and oppression of the developing world by these same countries. It is not an exaggeration to say that the political system in the west is crumbling. All you need to do is to look at the US; the government is incapable of doing anything. Rather, it is mired in constant bickering, in-fighting, and dirty political games. It is incapable of any long term planning beyond the next election cycle and sometimes the next news cycle. In the US, it is not important what results you deliver, it is all about presentation, theatrics, facade and beautiful words. When policies fail, no worries, just double down. When a problem can’t be solved, no problem, simply kick the can down the road. When your approval rating is going down the toilet, start a war and blame it on China and Russia. I’m sure glad that China is sticking with their true and tried system that has delivered real progress. Mr. Huang, it’s time that you get beyond the west’s talking points and look beyond the “autocracy” label. More importantly, China’s system is a meritocracy where actual accomplishments are valued and promoted. Finally, you should drop that fake facade and feel good about your mother country.

At the end of the day Japan was a vassal state, can't be compared with China, there is no floor.

I have his book. I enjoyed this interview, especially his appreciation for the Mandarin system.

He is supported by Taiwanese money. Taiwanese money pays for his professorship . So he has to oblige his pay master.

I never heard anything insightful from this guy. He gets his spot in Harvard and MIT by saying things Americans like to hear.

It's a very dull speech that makes you want to sleep. One point to consider: if you strip all immigrant scientists/engineers from US, then what?

Another Gordon Chang wannabe.

How could anyone let alone an academic supposed with a critical mind draw a relationship between China's gaokao with a decline in creativity and innovation? Firstly, China's innovation is not on the decline. Research papers and patents are in many areas are on the rise and ahead of the US. They are also very broadbased. Secondly, he made no distinction between creativity and innovation. Creativity is a part of human genetic makeup. It expresses best in given environment of rewards, opportunities and times of needs. To claim that rote learning makes or break a nation is really laughable. I remember rote learning in schools was blamed on Japanese lack of creativity in the 80's and 90's during the years of Japan bashing. Look at their anime and innovative industries. It's happening in China too but on a larger scale. Thirdly, to equate gaokao with data using the imperial exam system is ridiculous. Gaokao with STEM subjects, tests the wide range of cognitive abilities: memory, logic, deduction, construction and yes, creativity in problem solving. To relegated it to rote learning is disingenuous. Fourthly, there's innovation. Innovation is transforming creative ideas into reality. Institutional infrastructure and support play a key role, absent in earlier centuries in China but widely present now. It's sad that this man is so indoctrinated that he's unaware of it. He thinks that China can only progress with the help of the West. It's really sad that he has such strong inferiority complex. The only way to allay this complex is to keep believing that China is inherently inferior for one reason or another. And he keeps trying to get data to fit his belief. It's heart breaking when he says that he has a Chinese face and accent and will always be rejected by his host. My hope is for him to turn his self hate to one to foster better understanding between China and the West to have some self pride.

Veterans for PEACE. ✌️

I disagree with Mr Huang in regard to China’s declining ability to innovate: 1. China’s desire and necessity to compete in the marketplace will continue to drive innovation. 2. China’s governance system is different from the west and thankfully so. A key characteristic of the Chinese government is its pragmatism and ability to adjust and course-correct. 3. Huang’s underlying premise is that the west’s system is better. Anything that looks different from that is a mistake and disappointing. A key point Huang missed is that China has 5,000 years of history, civilization and experiences to draw from. It possesses sufficient confidence to chart its own course. It holds dear the vision of a just and harmonious world. It is working to shift the world away from the hegemonic and neo-colonial system that has not served humanity a single bit. 4. Xi is a capable leader and visionary. He is a disrupter from the perspective of the west and in particular the US empire. These people are in awe and naturally are fearful. Hence the persistent demonization and smearing. And in fact, they have tried their level best to attack Xi in the hope he would go away and be succeeded by someone less capable. Wishful thinking but that par for the course when it comes to the flunkies in various capitals from the west. 5. What Huang said at closing about not being listened to in the Washington establishment because of his Chinese face is a rather sad reflection of the US ruling elites and political system. Perhaps he should reconsider his professional career - move to China and apply his insights and expertise there, perhaps he’ll get a more appreciative audience there.

Lots of chinese bots in these comments. Keep it up comrades 👋

🤣🤣🤣 FAKE expert 🥸🥸🥸

Oh he’s boring

Brilliant guy. He’s probably spot on because he gets a lot of annoyed responses from Chinese listeners