Isn’t their talk from Behringer of a PolyOscar, now? How is that, when they had to abandon making a copy if the original? Great vid! Cheers!
@RegebroRepairs5 күн бұрын
Not talk, but a CGI render of one. You can't properly 100% clone an oscar, as the quirks of the software oscillator makes it impossible. But you certainly can make something that sounds very similar. It would likely have a slightly cleaner sound, and it wouldn't glitch if you turn knobs quickly, but it could still sound absolutely great. Maybe even have an additive sound editor for PC/Mac?
@57muzic13 күн бұрын
Thanks for sharing, good info!
@jasontimm870420 күн бұрын
RD-9 sounds better to my ears.
@kacpertkocz303623 күн бұрын
Hi i have a question my gramophone needle is pushing too hard on the vinyl and it would not spin and it would damage my record. How do i fix it?
@RegebroRepairs23 күн бұрын
Well, you can't play vinyl records, firstly. It needs to be 78 RPM shellacs. If it is a shellac record and it's being damaged, then it's probably from the 50s, they often made them softer then, and in that case, don't play it with a mechanical gramophone. You will notice if it's doing that by the needle getting some black dust on it. That shouldn't happen. Secondly, make sure you use a fresh needle, it should be changed for every record. Yup, gramophone needles are one time use. If it spins before you put the needle down, but stops when you put down the needle, you likely have the same problem as I did: The grease in the motor is old and sticky, and it needs to be disassembled, cleaned, regreased and put back together again.
@kacpertkocz303623 күн бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs Thanks i will try it
@matthall47227 күн бұрын
No one plays these things raw anyway. I’ve always run my machines through various pedals and I suspect that if I had a 909 at this point, I would sell it and buy some thing that isn’t cloned.
@fdort3971Ай бұрын
@LennartRegebo thanks for the lesson. Are the foils transferable from one machine to another? I need a replacement for my Neuphonic
@RegebroRepairsАй бұрын
If you mean the soundbox diaphragm, which is often a bit of corrugated metal foil, then those are different for different models. I'm not an expert, and can't find any information on Neuphonic, different brands were often sold under many names, maybe you can find another brand name somewhere? But otherwise they are probably replaceable with any diaphragm of the same diameter.
@InternalMindАй бұрын
I’m lost… revision one two three four 😂
@opticalman64172 ай бұрын
the Behringer is better
@RegebroRepairs2 ай бұрын
In many ways, yes. Certainly better value for money. 😀
@PantherModern_la2 ай бұрын
Your research is imperative. It would be amazing if you could run your tests through newly released grooveboxes, samplers and drum machines so producers can be more informed before purchasing the devices. In example, had i know the Ableton Push 3 was going to have such unstable midi to control external devices. I wouldnt have purchased it. It would be also nice to have comparisons to other gear like Elektron Digitakt 2.
@RegebroRepairs2 ай бұрын
Yeah, but it takes a lot of time, and I don't have those devices, so unfortunately I can't.
@HAMMONDGuy-B3X662 ай бұрын
Very interesting and informative, Thank you for producing and posting this video
@radiatingsun60562 ай бұрын
Great content! Thanks :) could you do the same for the mythical 808? Thanks
@RegebroRepairs2 ай бұрын
Sure, if you give me an 808. 😄
@radiatingsun60562 ай бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs ahah nice try :P perhaps you could borrow from some KZfaqr or something like that? (Or do a collab) cheers 🙏
@RegebroRepairs2 ай бұрын
@@radiatingsun6056 No one is going to lend me their 808 for half a year. 😄
@TransistorBased3 ай бұрын
I feel like an argument can almost be made that the RD9 is mimicking what the 909 was originally intended to sound like. I suspect that 7K filter was not originally intended to be there and only showed up after prototypes were exhibiting too much noise and a compromise had to be made. Regardless, it sounds like they really did their homework and the consumers are the real winners here.
@TransistorBased3 ай бұрын
I might sound like a bit of a heathen here, but I feel like if you're recording from the summed output, you're not quite doing it right. Whatever processing you want on the kick- for example- probably wouldn't sound as good when applied to the full mix. Plus recording individual channels means you can tweak their levels later on.
@RegebroRepairs3 ай бұрын
Having kick and snare separate is generally a good idea.
@TransistorBased3 ай бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs I only have the RD8 right now, but I have the RD9 on the way. It is a bit entertaining how many people will complain about a lack of individual instrument outs but will then just use the total output anyway.
@AboveTheTrees003 ай бұрын
get ERM multiclock and forget about any midi timing issues
@RegebroRepairs3 ай бұрын
The only timing issues I have are when I'm measuring the timing to see if I have timing issues. 😀
@PantherModern_la3 ай бұрын
this is the best explanation of midi clock and testing on the internet
@Manjarow3 ай бұрын
who wants to trade his 909 for a boat?
@smartti19703 ай бұрын
A in the whole pattern is punchier in the bass drum
@NTRSN-Archive3 ай бұрын
O my god
@NTRSN-Archive3 ай бұрын
How did you repair the broken traces Lennart ? I have here the same issue with a XP80 .
@stephanegagne57794 ай бұрын
Your review helped me shape a decision, I got myself a RD 9 , I have to admit, it sounds superbe , and the versatility of the instrument is very nice and capable.
@stephanegagne57794 ай бұрын
excellent review, analyse , thank you
@wwedz4 ай бұрын
t is is soooooo more fun than school lessons, i think i m gonna see it again for a 2nd time, very interesting and thanks for the very good tutorial/info!!
@paulfrieda64865 ай бұрын
Thank you so much to Cryptout and Acid Mitch for sending me recordings of their TR-909s! Can you Share These samples with us ❤?
@cruepprich5 ай бұрын
This is really informative and very well presented. Thanks
@Grammophoneplayer5 ай бұрын
Gonna try this out soon! (Kind of afraid to even look at the spring since last time my nephew overcranked it and it made the loudest bang i ever hear)
@Lectrosoul6 ай бұрын
Great content, thanks!
@christopherfields67046 ай бұрын
Promo>SM 💞
@Hunter_Hartley6 ай бұрын
The reasons it’s so hard to find a stable MIDI clock is because the government is lying to us and the earth is actually flat 😂😂😂
@RegebroRepairs6 ай бұрын
It's the aliens!
@derekhodge22897 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing this! I have a made-in-England Columbia unit with this exact same issue and no idea what to do about it. Looking forward to attempting this repair and breathing new life into this old beauty. Many many thanks!
@xsm55257 ай бұрын
I feel the real comparison test is putting the sounds in a sequence, there's something interesting I remember, that when the claps are close together on the real tr909, they start sounding.... hard to describe it in words.
@amonster8mymother7 ай бұрын
Omg
@ZekeMagnar7 ай бұрын
This was awesome. Thanks for taking the time to do the comparison.
@jmkmusicpedals7 ай бұрын
Enjoyed this very much. I liked seeing how you methodically went through this process with increasing understanding and troubleshooting. Being frustrated by MIDI Clock is almost a right of passage, but most people don't get to understand it the way you have. FWIW, when you must sync to the DAW and use devices that support MIDI Clock, it's far better to use a device like CLOCKstep:MULTI, Multiclock, etc. It's exactly the reverse of what you've done to make a reliable test. The clock output from the DAW is audio and goes to a device that can convert it into a much more stable MIDI Clock and then distribute it. Throw in a few other protocols like CV and Sync24, and you have Sync Hub for lots of gear. Even on OSes and DAWs that can output a reliable enough MIDI Clock, there can come a point where the project grows to such an extent that MIDI starts to suffer under load and these devices become well worth it.
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
Luckily my sense of rhythm isn't refined enough to have ever heard the 1-2ms delay in any MIDI signals. 😃 I don't generally use MIDI clock, but sequence everything from Ableton, but I would assume any MIDI signals suffer from the same delays.
@jmkmusicpedals7 ай бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs When sequencing notes from the DAW a tiny bit of latency goes unnoticed by everyone for the most part. After all, you get that much latency just standing 3 feet away from the speaker. The killer moment is when MIDI Clock is being used to drive external sequencers and the clock begins to drift. It becomes a runaway train. The audio clock won't drift, if it does start running a deficit, you'll hear it in all the audio tracks the same (glitching) and the DAW will ultimately stop. Also one of the things the external sync hubs can be good for are making Latency adjustments close to the devices that are following the clock, especially if you monitor the synth audio back through the DAW and process it further in real-time as some people do, adding an addition stage of ADC and audio driver buffers. I understand this isn't you, I don't monitor back through the DAW myself either.
@RPLKTR7 ай бұрын
Why are the BPM values different for RD-6 and TD-3? Everything else in your table was going for 120 BPM but RD-6 is 127 and TD-3 is 117? That's off by quite a bit.
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
Well spotted! Because you can't enter a bpm, you turn a knob and guess. For the real tests I will measure the BPM and get as close to 120 as I can.
@bornach7 ай бұрын
Expecting a Wintergatan reference: "So can we play tight music?"
@Cidr0n7 ай бұрын
Thanks a lot, very interesting! It got me thinking that, could it be that some famous drum machines - like the original 909 or 707 - get their famous groove from having an inaccurate MIDI clock? The probability distribution you showed did not look gaussian to me - what if it is the unique shape of the distribution of clock irregularities that is the main contributing factor to a "unique groove"? This would have been a super cool follow-up video!
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
That distribution is reasonably Gaussian, although there is a weird spike, so it's probably a combination of what is practically randomness (all the process in Windows doing things) together with something that isn't random, causing that spike.
@Cidr0n7 ай бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs Right, forgot the distribution was from when you were using windows. Still - would be an interesting experiment I think :) A "well known trick" among house and techno producers is to use midi clock from 909 to get a better groove, even with shuffle on 0. If that's not just a myth, I would think it has something to do with clock irregularities. I might do the test myself when I got some spare time!
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
@@Cidr0n Yeah, I have heard that 909 clock thing as well.
@sebp4007 ай бұрын
@@Cidr0n that's what I heard about the older MPC's. Theo Parrish also talks about it in a recent interview.
@skoggiehoggins14457 ай бұрын
Thank you Very much for investigating this ♥️♥️👍👍
@sigrice7 ай бұрын
Awesome! Thanks
@DJRickDawson7 ай бұрын
and i thought behringer was rubbish. waiting for the next video.
@klinkske7 ай бұрын
How i deal with this, knowing that ableton is shit with midi clock: i record each part and drag it so that it works in the mix. Or i work dawless and use one drummachine as master. Or i use the ERM multiclock and abuse the timing for each channel a bit to make it sound so i want to dance to it.
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
Have you tried using modern versions of Ableton Live? Or macs?
@BCThunderthud7 ай бұрын
I don't want to pressure you to make the next video but I did enjoy this one a lot.
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@crochambeau7 ай бұрын
Are these measurements just the clock send of each device? My interpretation is that the feel/etc comes also from how a drum machine/etc syncs to an external clock while still playing its own rhythm (not acting as a sound module). I would think that this would be measured by the output sounds, and a comparison between the RD & TR could be recorded in one pass with identical patterns output from each machine as a mono feed routed hard left & right. Very interesting results nonetheless, I would suggest maintaining the fun in content - there seems to be plenty of burnout on the platform lately. Cheers!
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
Yeah, this is only one small part of my effort of trying to test the stability of the drum machines.
@ThizOne7 ай бұрын
Thanks for doing all that tedious and “boring” work 🙃 The end results were quite interesting.
@jarlyjarly7 ай бұрын
Oväntat spännande! Har nog alltid känt att midiklocka varit instabilt och oförutsägbart vilket nog både berott på både instabila klockor men också noll koll haha. Har numera en MIDIhub som sköter klocka till allt i studion och det funkar fint sen nåt halvår tillbaks :)
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
Ja, jag kommer ihåg att för 20 år sedan läste jag nån intervju med en musiker som använder en 909 som master clocka för att den var så "stabil". Jag trodde det var BS, tills jag insåg att han sannolikt jämförde med nån slö Windows PC på 90-talet. 😀
@MeeBilt7 ай бұрын
Wow! I learned two things - the concept of "yak-shaving" ("raka en jak" in Swedish I suppose) and also why the MIDI clock on my Ableton Live performs so poorly compared to the MIDI clock from my trusty old Boss DR660. Great video and I would love to see the followup with the deepdive into the RD-9 and TR-909 comparison.
@TheBelse7 ай бұрын
Expert sleepers Silent way is good..so is their USAMO ..we have both in the band.
@marcthenarc8687 ай бұрын
Thanks Lenhart. Happy to see my TD-3 can be of use again from now on. What are your thoughts about a plain Arduino setup? Arduino tutorials are basically build around a MIDI port, 2 resistors and 3 jumpers which I like to experiment with but have never really had the opportunity to pass through a rigorous timing test ... but your knowledge of electronics is better than mine and maybe you can foresee noise issues that could set the timing off without a proper filtering module ...
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
An Arduino that doesn't do anything but send a MIDI clock should be rock stable. And I don't think you need any specific filtering, 3.3V is a pretty loud signal, especially if you enclose it in a shielded box.
@acdnrg7 ай бұрын
Lennart, many many thanks for compiling all this information and walk the extra miles of analyzing things in detail. I like how you´re turbonerding on this topic (and please take this as a compliment :D). In my setup, everything revolves around ableton link, ethernet based, and I wonder what the good options are to translate that into MC sent to a variety of hardware devices. Currently I use Bitwig, create an audio tick track via ERM plugin and send that to the multiclock device from the same company. It may be smarter to have that one as the master when doing hardware based music only, but I don´t like switching the whole sync setup between producing and performing. Again, many thanks for this useful and valuable information, I´m looking forward to see more once you find the time. Good things take time!
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
I have seen ads for devices specifically designed to create clock signals, but obviously I have no idea if they are any good, they usually cost hundreds of £$€, and I don't have any actual use of them.
@acdnrg7 ай бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs Yes, the Multiclock is basically throwing (a lot of and too much) money at the problem, but for me it was the right decision. Now that I´ve played with a few other ways to get different clocks out to Eurorack (and a few desktop boxes), the value has become a bit less. Often using just the clock generator from Bitwig. ERM is still fun though, like mangling the clocks a bit': having 3 clocks straight and one a little shuffled, tomfoolery of this sort.
@synthnerd45397 ай бұрын
I'm impressed by those results from the Behringer devices. I can guarantee that having a Mac does not necessarily mean you get good MIDI clock out of it - I have done similar timing checks and found that MIDI out from my Mac via a MOTU MIDI Express 128 (over USB) gives spurious regularly recurring signals, when the only thing going through is MIDI clock and not MTC etc. I heard that part of the problem is the USB implementation as the data is packeted, but I don't know enough about that side of things to comment. Interestingly, machines we revere today as being 'tight' often have fairly sloppy clocks. The 808 is a discrete hardware clock and is absolutely not fancy in any way at all; the LinnDrum uses a 555. The sense of tight timing, I think, comes from every event happening simultaneously - when all the sounds hit together, even if each clock pulse is not 100% on beat, the hits are unified and not staggered as they would be if triggered using MIDI notes on a sound module, for example. If your kick and snare hit at the exact same time, does it matter if they're a millisecond off? Also, regarding my surprise at those Behringer figures - I've done some work with DIN Sync24, and as far as I've tested, none of the new gear - not one example - complies with the old Roland DIN Sync spec. The DIN Sync timing of Behringer and Arturia units with a DIN Sync option (out, not in) is abysmal. This, it seems, is because they don't reset the clock on Start, whereas the old Roland spec does: look at the service notes for the 606/808 etc and they explain that the clock runs continuously, even when the device is stopped. When Start is pressed, the clock is held low, there's an approx. 8mS gap to allow the device to reset fully, and then the clock starts again. There's a separate Run/Stop signal which is low for stop, high for run. Receiving devices hear the start line go high, and wait for the re-started clock to appear. Timing is tight and there's a consistent lag of 8mS after hitting Start. The problem with new units like Arturia and Behringer is that the clock is not reset, which means the lag on start varies according to the tempo of the clock, and little attention seems to have been paid to whether it's high or low at any given point. Rubbish, really. So I'm suprised their MIDI timing is so good!
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
There are Behringer units with DIN sync support!? I'm not surprised their MIDI is good, MIDI is important, after all. Not many people use DIN Sync any more. There are certainly other possible sources of instability that might affect OS X, yes. It would be interesting to try out Live on OSX and also newer versions of live on Windows.
@synthnerd45397 ай бұрын
@@RegebroRepairs Yes, the configurable clock on, for example, the RD-8 (and presumably the RD-9) can be set to 24ppqn, which is the rate for both MIDI clock and Roland's DIN Sync - the clock signal is on the tip of the minijack and the run/stop signal is on the ring. If a mono jack is used, the run/stop signal is ignored and only the clock is attended to.
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
@@synthnerd4539 Aha, they have a run/stop as well, I did not know that. Can't say I'm surprised that their DIN Sync implementation isn't good, not many use that anymore. old Roland devices usually have MIDI retrofits available.
@matiasss5507 ай бұрын
how can I see all the correct answers at once?
@RegebroRepairs7 ай бұрын
The correct answers are: Bass drum C Snare drum B Low tom A Mid tom B High tom C Rimshot B Handclap C Closed HH A Open HH C Crash C Ride A Loop B Full answer is: Bass drum A) 909#2 B) 909#1 C C) RD-9 Snare drum A) 909#1 B) RD-9 C) 909#2 Low tom A) RD-9 B) 909#1 C) 909#2 Mid tom A) 909#1 B) RD-9 C) 909#2 High tom A) 909#1 B) 909#2 C) RD-9 Rimshot A) 909#2 B) RD-9 C) 909#1 Handclap A) 909#2 B) 909#1 C) RD-9 Closed HH A) RD-9 B) 909#2 C) 909#1 Open HH A) 909#2 B) 909#1 C) RD-9 Crash A) 909#2 B) 909#1 C) RD-9 Ride A) RD-9 B) 909#1 C) 909#2 Loop A) 909#1 B) RD-9 C) 909#2