I mourned the death of my relationship with my parents when I realized they would never and could never change - that's when I went 100% no contact. Not expecting the death of their physical body to change much of anything.

We grow up with the idea that parents are caring, love their children, and want only the best for them. We discover that being Toxic has nothing to do with who you are or what qualifications you have or your family status. If the person is Toxic, it's not having children that makes them better!

I feel that u are 100 percent right. However for me even a conversation could make me stop going to contact with my father. He has never changed his ways and it's to late for him to fix us. He's 84 years old n in need of care now n he wants for me to give up my life, my job, my home and my adults kids to go take care of him in another state. How dare he even ask that of me after he physically, emotionally and verbally abused me all my life. Even in my adult life he has raged at me n triggered me. I am now a heart patient myself n I will NOT allow him to cut my life short! I want to be here for my future grandkids someday.

My aunt asked me this recently ....i asked her to define a parent.....silence.

Old scapegoat here. I’d give anything to have a few last minutes with my emotionally abusive mother. Even though she was nasty to me and pushed me away(again) the last few weeks of her life, she was the only mother I had, or will ever have. We shared many years together and share the same blood. I understand her upbringing and what made her the way she was. I hold no ill will towards her.

Btw interesting to see how people in the comments and me as well go from the question "how to respond" to explaining why not. Which is also a response of course. 🤔 but seemingly a highy automated self defense reflex as well. A button any good manipulative narcissist would push if they find it. The D from the DEEP method, Don't Defend. (engage, explain or personalize) Wow Chess, you are really insightful, even offering alternatives to being self explanatory 😲

When did sticking their nose into someone else's family busyness become normal anyway ? Used to be people had the decency not to go there, also with the idea in mind their own family probably had their own family secrets and scandals. And the idea it was never a good idea to start messing with someone's private matters. It's why it's called private ? Of course narcissistic types never heard of these social graces. They just think in terms like "I want this, I demand that". Or the: I have "flying monkey authority" to answers type of people. Even worse the "healer/fixer" types. In the end their all fishing for sensitive info that's really non of their busyness and sooner or later it will be used against you. The point is where they come with these kind of belligerent questions you know their motivation is crook. If they really are interested and can relate to the situation the whole conversation would start out much different. So catch them before they even start by recognizing the sensitivity of their questions really don't match their trust level. Trust your own "spidey" sense gut feeling or goosebumbs on your neck alarm before you think you have to on their account. Maybe that's a snappy comeback saying: "Gee, I didn't know we were that close".....🤭 But yea, there's a narcissist for ya, they just come up to you out of nowhere and start demanding things. The probable end when you share anything is the fact that when you confine anything, they just pull your pant's down and parade you down the street butt naked while mocking and scorning you. Either because this was their intention to begin with or otherwise because you didn't reply to their demanding questions in a satisfactory way or whatever. As usual narcissists use the info you give them sooner or later. It's logical for con people to want to know all kinds of inside info, or how else could they manipulate everything ? Give them nothing to work with, the less the better. If you catch yourself oversharing it's no shame, there are expert manipulators around who may or may not already have inside info on how to work you. Replace shame with the feeling you at least caught on to this this time and you are learning. This can bring you back to your inner self instead of getting caught in their game of pushing you with your back against the wall line of questioning. I do take account of these events though try not to waste too much time on them, but the fact is they revealed themselves, I could wonder about their motivations or what or who send them with idk what misconceptions, I still saw the cracks in the mask that can't be unseen. Keeping track of the pawns did later also reveal to me who's on who's team kinda demographic and who's likely the biggest instigators behind the curtain. Like doing my own reversed psychology counter espionage. And it was easy because they can't help themselves but be on the radar with their needy behavior. Still, keep track to avoid getting stuck in the mud, observe but don't engage and waste too much time and effort on it. Of course in the wider picture, what about their own family affair's ? With people like that it's probably so disgusting and sick nobody would even want to ask or can find a stick long enough to poke around in that sewer anyway. Maybe this is why they think they can get away with the things they do ? And if a narcissistic person can hide/deny their own crap by posing (fake) accusations you know they will. Thanks so much Chess for sharing these much needed thoughts, tools, tips and skills 🙏

This was so helpful 🩷 I'd love more videos on people trying to influence. I get really defensive when i feel someone is trying to force their beliefs on me, because of my family. Did you feel that way too? Its making therapy tricky for me. I don't forgive them right now. Im open to change but i think until i get away i can't even consider it. Its a matter of protecting myself. People judge buts its okay, they alway will 😊🩷

This is excellent! It's such a personal story and I am very cautious who I share it with. I've come to terms with the dynamics of my family of origin but in reality, it's my story and I don't feel the need to explain.

The selfishness rejection is why. You are responsible actually. Take it from me first hand. I'm almost there and I cant wait to be gone.

True, just because they're your parents doesn't mean they are good and caring people. If they are narcissists then they are actually very bad, uncaring and selfish people. As a Christian I learned that you don't honor what is not honorable.

People that say "why can't you just forgive your parents" do not understand narcissistic abuse.

Great topic Chess. From my experience forgiveness comes and goes. I’m not forgiving them for them but for myself. I don’t want to live in resentment. But sometimes I do get angry and resentful. I try to be gentle with myself. What I’ve realized is that I can forgive my parents and still stay estranged. I have choices today. ❤

The answer in my situation is that I do forgive my parents. Being in relationship and forgiving are independent of one another. The person asking the question doesn't understand this salient point.

I have not seen my father for 1year now and it really did feel like the only option I had… but now there are these big events coming up and it’s heartbreaking… The idea that I will not be there… I just watched your video about the question “why don’t you just forgive them” and I am so looking forward to your video about forgiveness. It’s so hard to navigate all these feelings and I do feel alone in them especially because my siblings who’ve had the same experience as me are still in contact with him. I am also scared that if I would go see him at a big event, these questions are gonna be asked by everyone, I mean my whole family is already asking them regularly… I feel really lonely in this and am constantly reconsidering my decision… But I know the love I yearn for cannot be given by him and it breaks my heart over and over again…

Thank you for this.

I answered an email from one of my moms friends email. She said... "wellll..you do know your mother is getting old."... implying because she is 88 I MUST now forgive (and forget.) I wrote back saying she does not know the story...or the reasons I do not nteract with mom. I told her its best we no longer communicate.

Loove this.❤❤❤❤. Forgiveness ...is way too complex. Yes. We dont have to answer anyone!😊

Well it’s hard to forgive a father who suffocated me as a baby and it caused me to have ADHD that conveniently ruined my entire life.

If they haven't changed, then what is the point? Are you supposed to keep forgiving and forgiving and forgiving? Why is it up to you to take that on when they're not willing to meet you halfway by taking on board what you say and looking to change?

Just as abuse is a process, forgiveness is process. And that’s for each individual to discern, not for someone possibly asking in bad faith. People who ask the question why can’t you forgive your parents are presuming they have inside knowledge of the conflicts that led to family estrangement. They may have abuse issues of their own, either as abused or as abusers, that they’re in denial about

I can contribute from my own experience. I'm 50, historical family scapegoat, who has been estranged from my mother and family for about four years. I'm also a Christian and I've struggled with the resentment and forgiveness part. To forgive, without an apology and accountability is extremely difficult but I learned to do it for myself. Here lies the crux for me; just because you forgive someone, it doesn't mean that you want to spend any time with them. It takes a long time to break lifetime habits and it's all tangled up in decades of being unhealthily enmeshed. In essence, my advice is that forgiveness is for yourself. So is self preservation. There shouldn't be any expectations from anyone to have dialogue with the estranged family members, or to spend time with them, just because you've forgiven them for yourself, without an apology or accountability. If people don't like it, so be it.

Forgiveness must be looked at in the context of a debt. The person who injured another owes that person a debt of justice. In the cosmic sense, that debt will be paid in eternity somehow. In the spiritual sense ( ie Christian definition ) when you “forgive” a person you internally and intentionally let that debt go, give it to God. To seek reconciliation is another matter. That’s a grace not everyone deserves. If the guilty party is still injurious, then you have the right to not be put in a situation where you are injured again. Example: if you are mugged and robbed, you can forgive the mugger, but have a right to have the mugger arrested and put in jail for a time. The same goes for abusive parents who aren’t even willing to acknowledge and work on toxic issues. You don’t forgive them for them, but for yourself. Holding on to a debt is exhausting and can literally make you sick. Let it go. Forgiveness means you give them to God (or in AA parlance, your higher power) and move on. Work on your own toxic behavior. We all have some, especially if raised by toxic people. Try not to mirror the people who raised you. I came from an alcoholic home and was the scapegoat. Thankfully my mother joined AA and followed the 12 steps religiously. She did eventually become a wonderful person to be around, but she was the only one to do that. I couldn’t change her. I chose to forgive her, but move far away, and keep our interactions brief but friendly. Only when I saw she was working on her behavior did I lower my guard. Obviously not all parents or offenders can be given even that much. Their behavior is just too toxic. That’s where you just answer the questioner ( depending upon who they are) by saying either, “ I’m working on it, thank you for your concern “ or “I have forgiven them. This is what forgiveness means to me. I don’t press charges, and I pray for them. I forgive them but I believe in boundaries now and I don’t give them the opportunity to mess with me again. Thank you for your concern.” And you leave it like that. It’s really not complicated at all and beyond that it’s no one’s business.

yeh, i've heard this. It's so hard to explain, calmly without sounding wounded, vulnerable, petty.... . Imagine the shock on the hairdresser's face if I said ..''Because my identity is so fragile that my parents have the power to erode me. And that's how they like it.'' I like the warning shot idea.

I am going through this right now. I have tried to practice what I might say when they are gone. This is the best I have come up with so far: "They saw what they wanted to see, they thought what they wanted to think, they felt what they wanted to feel, and they did what they wanted to do." "They were the way they were, good or bad, with or without me" "I tried my best"

Just listening to you made me feel that someone understands how I feel. I appreciate what you do. Thank you, deeply and sincerely

This lady looks very, very sad inside her soul, is all I can see. So sad.

Basically, the sibling craves to become like their Nparent(s). To them imitating their Nparents is just how life is supposed to be. The point where the scapegoat won't accept abusive N behavior from their sibling like they had to accept N abuse to survive from their parent(s) means you are the bad rotten one. Yes, they demand normalization of abuse and if you don't submit ? You shall feel the wrath they carry towards their N parent, because it was all the scapegoats fault all along, everything, always. In fact, they are responsible for their Nparents abusive behavior, they destroyed the happy family ! They ruined the Nsiblings childhood ! Someone will have to pay !!! The typical narcissistic abuse their parents had. Besides, sucking up to the parent head narcissist has certain materialistic advantages. About this "family" bond, what family bond ? They traded that in for ego gain. Also liked Dr. Ramani's video a couple month ago on: "Can narcissistic siblings HARM YOU as much as narcissistic parents"? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aKuHpaV03cvVj58.html

When I finished my tertiary studies (during which I still lived at home), I felt an overwhelming urge to move as far away from my parents as I could. It wasn’t until years later when I started my healing journey and unpacking my past, that I recognised the reason why - I’d spent my upbringing feeling emotionally unsafe and my subconscious was trying to lead me to safety. I needed the physical distance first in order to emotionally heal.

I owe nothing to a woman who regularly beat me as an grade schooler with a metal pancake turner. She told me hitting me was better than how she’d been raised-her parents yelled at her and it accomplished nothing. Clearly shouting had not improved her character and conduct, In her mind, beating her children was an improvement. I owe nothing to a woman who repeatedly told me she was going to move in with me when she was old, and then I could change her poopy diapers. I owe nothing to a woman who called her 17-year-old daughter a bleeding heart liberal, for the crime of caring about what happens to other people. I owe nothing to a woman who instigates arguments over topics she knows we disagree about. I owe nothing to a woman who talks trash about her other adult children and gets furious at me for taking their part. Walking away from her after begging for a better relationship for more than 40 years was the best option for me. I owe her no final explanation. She justifies everything she did, offering no apologies. This does not make me a coward. It takes courage to face reality, the reality that the woman who raised me has no empathy, who has rarely expressed remorse for her actions with me and many others.

If I were to go No Contact with a narcissistic parent I would fully expect to be out of the Will. The heartbreak is when the scapegoat continues to provide care and attention to the NP to the same level or greater than the other siblings then gets disinherited. My heart goes out to every person put in this position. Thank you for this valuable video.

I was adopted when i was 6 weeks old and have been my mothers golden child ever since. I am currently 42 years old. 5 years ago i had my child. I swore that i would never treat him like i was treated. I went no contact with my parents 1 year ago because my parents were not respecting my husband and my rules with our son. I know for a fact that my parents changed their will when my brother went no contact with them. They have since changed it back (to include him) as he has now reconnected with them. Although my parents are still alive, i believe i have been cut out of the will based on past events. My husband and i do not need their money, but after 40 years of trauma, i think i deserve it. If i am actually left out when they are both gone, i will contest it.

I enjoyed your video and found it helpful. I NC'ed the remainder of my family seven years ago - and while it's largely been peaceful and helpful, whenever the extended family come into the picture, I am troubled by things I hear that have been said about me, etc. No Love = No Love.

I'm on the fence about my brother. Definitely Golden Child to my Scapegoat. He's never shown ANY interest in my kids, bar stirring them up by being a giant kid himself when it's Christmas. Mum (covert narc) tried to make him become involved, insisting he play online games with them once a week (he lives interstate) getting my kids to email and text him etc. Given he doesn't even reply to my parents calls/texts, it was a recipe for disaster. I tried to tell her not to bloody do it, said he was only going to let them down and they absolutely didn't need that (their father is a big narc too :/) My brother broke a string of promises he made to my kids (surprise surprise) from big ones (promising my daughter a job in a business he didn't even have off the ground) to simply ignoring emails/texts and trying to wiggle out of having the kids to stay with him, after he had promised each of them (Mum forced him to do it anyway) Since realizing Mum is likely a covert narc, and going no contact, I've heard nothing but crickets from Dad and my brother. Dad declares himself Switzerland (Switzerland who didn't even text for my birthday) and my brother declares nothing, has asked nothing, occasionally sends a cat meme and ignored a text about stuff of his that I had at my house (but that's par for the course) I won't be contacting him again. I don't want people in my life who make so little effort. I know he's had his own issues with Mum, as she was EXTREMELY angry about him setting boundaries around her negative tirades. I think there was more, but that is between them and I wasn't about to dig for dirt. Mum, as a result, told me, that she "chose" the wrong child to focus her love and attention on 💀 (this was about a year before my realization and going no contact) Who on God's green earth thinks like that :/

Urgh. So passive aggressive and gaslighting. I came back to this video as my Dad's wife has decided to email me out of the blue to tell me he's having surgery and 'your Dad loves you' 😑

You have succeeded at giving different perspectives.

My mum likes to use her death as a point. I could never understand why I had such extreme anxiety as a child over my mum's health and mortality but what I've realised is my mum will regularly have a "health crisis", will use her death or will hold the risk of suicide over you during times of conflict. That or she will threaten to leave. As a child we finally found her hiding in a field during a conflict with my highly enabling dad. now she will just scream "do you want me to leave?" I cut contact with her 6 months ago.

This is a really painful journey. I've heard through the grapevine that my mother is having another crisis and whilst I'm glad I'm out I'm also bracing for the inevitable onslaught from certain people I do have contact with. I'm 36 and I'm so so tired. Tired to my bones. Thank you so much for your content, I am very grateful for it.

They make good police officers 😂

Our narcissist sibling was and still is a huge mess. He must _always_ prevail though he generally lacks the aptitude and/or composure to be "in charge". He was our pathological narcissist mother's middle son, with whom she bonded over the fact she was a middle child, and she cultivated him to be the family wedge even as she pretended we scapegoats were ambitious wedges. Ironically, he gave her COVID and she died due to the illness. He refused to stay away while he and his brood were sick. At this point, Dad was long gone and all four of us scapegoats completely left the fold, so we didn't get sick. Her first-born illegitimate daughter (the other golden child) also became very ill due to their visit, and said "They were all over her." It's been nearly three years since Mom's death, but the estate that should have been easy to settle is going to court due to the narcissist's machinations. Nowadays you may encounter the narcissist in our little village in his bloated overpriced pickup, with two giant balls hanging off the back, reliably parked in handicapped parking spots because he won't lose weight necessary to be able to walk. He's a real piece of work.

Maybe some are just ungrateful brats with jealous spouses,that think it's the " thing" to do in this generation.Maybe the Adult child has always been a troublesome child and it's not a surprise to the parent. maybe the parent is relieved to get away from the years of emotionally abusive behavior.

So good! Always the one up one down position with my narc sibling. No contact was the only way to keep my sanity.

What about when a parent doesn’t talk to their adult children? As of Father’s Day 2024 I am no longer talking to either of my adult narcissistic children. There’re too smart for their own bridges some older generations would say. They talk down to me as if I was stupid, they shhh me in public because I don’t know how to talk. Bottom line they have no respect for me whatsoever as their father or as a human being in general. And so I’ve decided to once and for all to put my foot down and rid them from my life for good. I still think about them every second of the day and I still love them but I hate the kind of people they’ve become. Entitled narcissistic disrespectful human beings.

My narc stepbrother’s name was Alexander. He was convinced he was called after Alexander the Great. He called him the greatest king ever lived. He even felt greater than him. Everybody else was a loser. I, like everyone else for a fact, never did matter. That’s why nobody, N O B O D Y attended his funeral, not even his wife or three daughters. No one was there, not even me. And I never shed a tear. No grief but relief. No mourning but roaring.

Is trump a narcissist?

She says she is happy with her decision, she doesn't look happy.

My sister stole my identity opened up a cell phone accou t and then called me everyday on tje phone had it for 2 years until she stopped paying, and it wemt on my credit report then i found out sje jad all her utilities in my name too amd wouldnt admit it sayi g that its a mistake

My mother was an abusive covert narcissist. I often stood up for both siblings when she was being cruel to them. My narcissister seems to forget all of that. She thinks I'm the worst person who ever lived. And she gets meaner by the day. I've gone no-contact.

I was raised the Scapegoat in a raging, abusive, neglectful, alcoholic family. I'm not sure who did more damage to me: My raging alcoholic father. My enabling, codependent, voided out mother. Or, their Golden Child, my older sister. (My Lost Child brother took off when I was 12. Sadly, I have only a very superficial relationship with him.) But my older sister has been my frenemy since birth. In my mind, I see her as a little girl and I am her doll. She drags me around and shakes me and throws me in the dirt and kicks me across the room, then, picks me up and dusts me off and feeds me and tucks me in to bed. Then, she drags me out of bed, kicks me around some more... she puts on a show for me and expects me to be her audience and cheer for her...after all, we're "best friends." And so, we "play." Always on her terms, always what she wants. In fact, I have no voice at all. This goes on until the doorbell rings. Friends are better than some stupid doll, so off she goes to be with real people and leaves me in a heap in the corner. (Which, sadly, is a relief.) Then, when she gets bored, she picks me up and coos at how much she "loves me," and reminds me how much she does for me and squeezes me until we are one... then, she kicks me across the room. A lifetime of this. I've gone "No Contact" and I'm feeling like the worst person in the world. I think to myself, "Am I the abuser?" "Am I giving her the 'Silent Treatment'?" "Why can't I just get her to see me as an individual?" But, our Dad treated me like I deserved to be kicked. In fact, he regularly beat me. He even choked me. And then, he too, told me that he loved me. So, why shouldn't his Golden Child treat his Scapegoat the same way? She once told me, "You were the reason Dad drank. If you'd been a better child, then our family wouldn't have been so messed up." And, I believe her. Not rationally, of course. But, emotionally, I believe her... Even though the first rage-fueled beating I remember was at 4 years old. Do 4 year olds cause alcoholism? I'm writing this because I don't trust anyone enough to tell them my secrets (because, secrets are always weaponized against you in a dysfunctional family.) And, because, even now, my dysfunctional family tiptoes around my Golden Child sister's rages, too. So, they just see her abuse as normal. "Why can't you just get over it/Let it go?" I've tried therapy, but couldn't let down my guard enough to be honest with her. So, I comment here. It's nice to know that I'm not alone. I felt so alone as a kid. Although, I'd never wish this kind of abuse on anyone. We should have all grown up in a soft, loving, calm, supportive family. We should have only met people who were gentle with our spirits. I wish us all healing.

she drove my daughter to suicide to be better than me and revenge for a proposal, she spent 15 years💔from norway