@@dustinsprague5083 The key or the hammer? Typically the hammer will be attached to the action by a flange at the bottom that is screwed into the action rail.

@@SomeDumUsrName Not true due to inharmonicity. The primary piano tuning apps will have to listen to the piano, a few notes in each octave, and you’ll have to tell it where the bass/treble bridge splits are and it can get pretty close but it won’t be perfect. Each piano needs a slightly different tuning as the scale design, length of the strings, and other factors make it necessary to apply a “human ear” to make decisions as to what sounds better…the intervals or the octaves and the preferences of the player themselves. There’s much more to piano tuning than most people understand. Unfortunately because of these apps around nowadays people think it’s easier than it really is, and I’ve compared many of them and I was amazed how far off most of them were, even up to a few cents off in the temperament.

@@MrPianoTech Well the software I chose builds an inharmonicity map for the piano being tuned...even the abbreviated version I have. And speaking of perfect, there is no such banana....not even with the best human ears and ability. Using this app, I can out-tune many good by-ear tuners I've sat down behind. Not saying it'd be good for a 9' concert grand in a high-profile-classical-performance setting but, hey.... just not many out there playing at that level and of those that do - audience included - half or most of them problem won't even be able to hear what little discrepancies there are from tuning using good software. It's like anything else: Only the person who does a particular thing professionally is going to notice the teensy tiny things that are wrong with it.

@@niner_six_echo Thanks!

@@roy3520 You’re welcome. Thank you for the kind words!

I’ve never had a problem accessing the entire hammer, just takes some practice. It’s even easier in a grand since you can just pull the action, turn it around, and place it back in the piano to work on it. You run the risk of damaging, losing, or misaligning things not to mention the time it takes to do it properly. And, not everyone can afford to have the entire action rebuilt just because it needs a voicing.

@@michaelbarrett3926 Where there's not much wear on the hammers, and you're only having to voice, of course with an upright you just voice in situ - though sometimes one needs to tilt the action back for access. HOWEVER: Where re-facing is required, due to wear and flattening of the hammer, to get the correct profile, one often has to take some felt off the shoulders. To do this properly on an upright, each hammer has to be taken off. If you're none to fussed about getting back the correct profile of each hammer, then that's up to you, but I like to maintain the highest standard of work that I'm able to do. As for re-alignment of hammers, in an upright with butt plates - assuming the alignment was correct in the first place - then that's not an issue. Although, if the hammers were not correctly aligned in the first place, it's essential to re-align, which in any case necessitates the removal of the dampers and the levers (whippens) in order to be able to align without risking breaking any of the whippens/jacks. But when doing an action rebuild on an upright which does have butt plates, as we know, the hammers have to be put back on first, and aligned with the strings, prior to then putting back the levers (or whippens as you call them) and aligning the jacks with the butt notches and then replacing the dampers and aligning them properly too. It has been my experience that if hammers have enough wear to necessitate re-facing, more often than not one has to replace return tapes and replace the balance hammer leathers at the same time. However, I do take your point about the expense - therefore the owner of the piano has to weigh up for themselves how much they want or can afford to have done on their piano. Certainly some cases are 'borderline,' where in an ideal world one would re-face prior to voicing - which is of course my usual practice. But where there is not too much wear/flattening of hammer felts, one can just voice the hammers. I did this a few days ago for a customer with a Welmar 5' 6" grand (in essence a Bluthner grand with a different name on the fall-lid, the frame design being identical to Bluthner). My customer was pleased to avoid too much expense, and the wear on the hammers wa mimimal. I've had 46 years experience as a piano tuner/technician.

​@@timelwell7002Well, I am also a piano tuner / technician in the UK with 40 + years experience. I have never heard a wippen (standard UK spelling, was officially 'whippen' in the USA until their ptg decreed they should drop the 'h') simply referred to as a 'lever'. Also, the method of voicing here is not what you would use on a concert grand in a large venue I agree, but it doesn't claim to be. This method ('granny voicing' of old pianos) is regarded as 'standard practice' among all the technicians I know, for old uprights. Especially where the cost of more precise work, or new hammers, is not warranted, or where it would exceed the value of the piano or the size of the customer's purse. It's a method I learned as an apprentice many years ago. I was also taught that the goal of a piano tuner / technician is to make the piano sound as pleasing to the customer's ear as is possible taking into account 1. the type of music they play (which may affect whether you tune to equal or a 'period' temperament). 2. the condition of the instrument 3. how much the customer can afford to pay 4. how the piano is to be used (public or private, moved regularly or static etc) and 5. the environment in which the piano is (usually) situated. In my opinion, and how I was taught, you can't just deal with the piano alone and insist on only doing the absolute best thing for just the instrument without including all the other factors of piano ownership. I've successfully used the method shown in this video for years with no negative issues and very positive feedback from customers. Of course, I wouldn't use it on the concert grand piano in our City hall etc, but that is a very different situation and not one that this video is suggesting should be used in such a case!

@@DAVE121063 I understand very well that working on, say a modest upright in someone's home, and played by an average ability pianist, is a different scenario from restoring a Concert Grand for an Arts Centre, etc. I also understand very well that some customers are able to pay for full restoration, where others have to work to a budget. That said, if hammers are rather worn, sometimes return tapes might be perished and in danger of breaking, and balance hammer leathers may also be worn. And as often as not, hammers, levers and jacks might be sticking, or perhaps loose, and re-centring of hammers/flanges, levers/flanges and levers/jacks may be needed (Dampers/flanges likewise). Thus it is often the case that the action will need to be dismantled anyway, in which case I'd re-face hammers individually if/as required and agreed with the customer. And if a piano is, say, an old over-damped design, it is often not cost effective to do much work on the piano at all - though if the instrument is of great sentimental value, and if the customer wishes, I'm happy to do whatever they wish me to do, just so long as they understand that undertaking a lot of work would not be cost-effective as such. I just wonder if you can achieve a good enough result by re-facing hammers several at a time and in situ? Do you find that you can take enough felt off the shoulders of each hammer to get somewhere close to a decent profile?

Thank you for the kind words, you can find both tracks here: soundcloud.com/mike-28-2?

It could go more. It allows for aftertouch. You can see it in step 7.

Setting the pin is still required but I mentioned in the beginning of the video that this video doesn’t cover that. It could really use a whole separate video as proper pin-setting is incredibly important. In this video I go through my process of tuning and is meant more for tuners who already have a good handle on proper pin-setting technique.

Usually when I run into this problem it is due to a bit of debris touching the string. On an upright the most common place for this to occur is at the bridge. Take off the bottom board and look at the string where it meets the bridge, behind the bass strings. You may find there’s a little bit of wood or something hanging out where the string meets the bridge. It may be hard to see but it sounds like something is touching the string whenever it vibrates hard enough to make contact with whatever it is.

Hello Dylan. Yes, once you make one adjustment you'll have to then make the others. You can do all steps per note one at a time but I find it quicker to adjust one setting all the way through the action then move onto the next. For proper repetition pay special attention to the placement of the jack on the knuckle and the repetition spring tension. Also, check the condition of the knuckles, if they're a bit stiff you can use some teflon powder on them or they might need to be replaced if they're not working smoothly.

@@MrPianoTech Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, it really helps a lot. The knuckles are fine and the action in general is in good condition, I assumed that by bringing the hammer closer I had to adjust everything but it is better to ask an expert like you 🙂with some adjustments I have managed to make it respond better to repetitions, but I feel still something strange on the keyboard. (Maybe because I haven't reviewed the repetition spring yet, I don't know how to do that and I don't want to ruin it) I “Adventured” myself to do it because it is my piano and I can experiment, but I wouldn't do that with someone else's piano!! It is a lot of work and knowledge that you need. If I had a question, could I send you a photo by email?

@@dylanmcqueen4656 Absolutely, email is fine. I find once you go through all the steps it should work fine. If it doesn’t then it’s usually time to either replace parts or a repair is needed somewhere.

I don't recommend using wax as it will collect dust and other debris over time. I prefer to use Teflon powder. In a pinch you can use a graphite pencil to draw on the keybed underneath the bedding screws to keep things moving.

@@MrPianoTech Thank you very much! Love your videos !

@@andre.vaz.pereira No problem!

Haha thanks! I tried finding uses for music I’ve written over the years lol.

Correct

I have all the help I need right now but I appreciate the interest!

There’s a link in the description to photos of the measurements. A few people have built the table using these.

Awesome, thank you!

I get mine from schaffpiano.com. There's also pianoteksupply.com

Sure! So the copper winding on bass strings is wrapped around the steel core. You want to twist the entire string in the direction of the winding to keep it tight. Sometimes you’ll encounter a piano with bass strings that make a buzzing sound when played, that’s the winding coming loose. When a piano that I’m not putting new strings on exhibits this problem I’ll loosen the tuning pin, about one full turn or so should do it, enough so that you can remove the string’s loop off the hitch pin at the end opposite the tuning pin. Then, using pliers, you’ll twist the string in the direction of the winding, one or two full turns usually does it, then slip the loop back on the hitch pin and retighten. The buzz should be gone. When installing a new string, after you attach the bass string to the hitch pin, and have coiled the string onto the new pin, you’ll do the same thing but from the end with the tuning pin instead. So before I pound the new tuning pin into the pinblock, I’ll give it a solid full turn or so in the direction of the winding. If I’m doing a field replacement of a bass string, after I put the wound loop onto the old tuning pin, I’ll do the twisting as if the string was buzzing, as noted above, at the hitch pin. It just keeps the winding tight.

Thank you for your kind words!

great demonstration. i used to tune the middle octave using 4ths and fifths and checking with my 3rds and sixths to get temperament. i then when down and did mostly the same, but used 5ths and octaves moreso. as i went up i used more 5ths and 6ths. ps: Db and F is a major 3rd. i don’t even know what to call a C# and an F. haha. perhaps dim4, but that’s not part of a diminished chord. aug5 descending?

Yep, I’ve found that if you price yourself too low you get a certain type of customer, the bottom-dweller. Keep it up, it’s been a great trade for me!

No problem! You will measure the distance inside the piano, with the action removed, from the strings to the keybed.

my distance from hammer to the string at the left side is 21,5 but my hammer distance is not at 46mm. Is 50mm. Should I lower all the hammers to 46? .My problem is that when I play, very softly, the keyboard doesn't always pick up, it's like I have to put more power in a specific point otherwise it won't be heard. At this particular point, the keyboard also makes a click, but without sound, if I put less force than it wants.@@MrPianoTech Thank you for your time.

If your hammers are 50mm away from the strings that's likely too far. Try reducing the amount by moving the hammers closer to the strings by adjusting the capstan underneath the whippen. With the hammers a bit closer and the letoff set properly it should be easier to play. The hammer shanks should not be resting on the hammer rest felt rail, that's just for the rebound. If they're resting on that rail the hammers are too far away. Also, if that rail is set too low, or if it's loose, either the rail can make a tapping sound or the hammer shank may hit the adjustment screw that will adjust the repetition lever height. @@orfeastops1408

Awesome! Thank you for the kind words.

Thanks! I've used it in a pinch to get the job done. Just make sure it doesn't have any additives in it like aloe.

@@MrPianoTech Sure, thanks!

It's the thought that counts 😀. Thank you for the kind words!

Immediately after you tune the center string of each note, as you go up and down.

Thank you for your kind words, much appreciated!

I typically purchase a new decals from Decals Unlimited, they are a rub-on then your finish goes on over the top of it.

Yes, since every piano is different.

Well that’d be better than the $300 KZfaq has paid me since 2020 lol. But seriously, thank you for your kind words, means a lot!

@@MrPianoTech 😂😂🫣

Thanks! I’ve considered it, I’ve had a lot of people ask about it. What I did for now was I put a link in the video description to photos showing the measurements of it. Hope that helps for now but since I’ve had so much interest in it I think I’ll put something together in the future.

@@MrPianoTech that rules. Thanks!

Awesome, thanks for watching!