I don't like your analysis. This has always been one of my favorite part of the game, because it's the one that feel the most like an adventure. You don't know where you're going, there's a lot of trainers, the scenery is nice, and yeah, you have the time to wonder "what's for me at the end of the route ?". And that's, in my opinion a core element of pokemon identity and success. It is rare enough that a game gets you with a genuine sense of discovery, and that part of the game, to me is pretty convincing at doing that. The fact that the road is so long and so filled with adversity makes ariving to the next town feel like such a relief, and a very real sense of pride in your accomplishment. Your team was, in the end, strong enough to win every battle, and you were prepared enough to take on the challenge. Pokemon has never been a game about rushing from point A to point B, it's about the journey and the friends you make all along (that would be your pokemons), and South East Kanto is exactly that.

th same criticisms for many routes in all the Pokemon games can come out

First playing FireRed i actually never got a bike before the game completion. So it was my only route.

I feel like SE Kanto being interpreted as a "gauntlet" could have been pushed more to make it a lot more interesting. The simple change of having every trainer in Routes 13 - 15 be reset every time the player leaves the stretch of routes (and _maybe_ Route 12 could be included, but a decent portion of that route is accessible before the Poke Flute) would add a lot in not only making the routes a good training area, but also making it so if the player does not obtain the bike, they would have to run the gauntlet in one go else reset their progress. The main thing that I think is missing from most Pokemon games that would add a lot of value to items is having a gauntlet/endurance section be a mandatory path. The only time the main series games come close is in the Pokemon League - a well known difficulty spike due to locking the player out of PokeCenter access for five difficult battles. But by that point, the player already has access to Full Restore and Revive spam, making item management trivial apart from making sure to stack a double digit number of the aforementioned items. These routes would have been the perfect place to force players out from the safety of the PokeCenter walk, and really test their item management. Or at least, they would be if Cycling Road weren't an option. But hey, giving the players the choice between easy and hard mode wouldn't hurt. As for cool Pokemon encounters, Tangela could have been exclusive to the Cut-locked patches of grass on Routes 12 and 13 instead of only being found all the way on Route 21 south of Pallet Town (basically end-game and tucked away in a corner) or the Safari Zone in Yellow, Lickitung could have potentially been found in the grass around Routes 14 and 15 instead of being locked behind trading for _Golduck/Slowbro_ or being found in the Safari Zone in Yellow, and Exeggcute could have also been placed within these routes as an alternative to Oddish instead of being... found in the Safari Zone. Farfetch'd is another option to include into the routes, but I actually feel like this would be too late into the game to add it in; though it seems Pokemon Yellow disagrees. Routes 12, 13, and 14 being coastal routes could have also served as a reason to add Krabby, Slowpoke, and Psyduck as grass patch encounters. While the player would have already gotten the Super Rod by this point and thus could already catch them, it would at least spice up the grass encounter pool from the usual Pidgey, Oddish, Bellsprout encounters seen since Nugget Bridge.

I always felt like it was literally just there to serve the purpose of grinding levels. Trainer battles give much more experience than wild battles. Also, lots of extra money there to be made for the games money sinks (game corner, celadon department store, and safari zone). Just how I always viewed it.

Personally, I prefer the cycling road. It's repetitive either way you go. Both routes suck and are so boring. Just the same types of trainers over and over without any care for integrating types or species. At least, in FR/LG there are bikers with lvl 26 Machamps, Wheezing some Primeape, and like the last guy at the end of the road has a Muk. I prefer ignoring the lesser grunts/bikers and to just battle the ones you farm more exp from. At least Koffing still gives you like 610 exp points i believe. I'll split the exp of the evolved foes amongst two party members. You level up pretty quickly if your team is around the mid-thirties. It's not quite enough exp to take on Koga, though. As his team is just under lvl 40. I'm actually at this point in the game on my fire red rom file. My Blastoise is lvl 39 with a full team and so I've gone through pretty much all the trainers on Route 15 and I have absolutely no desire in the slightest to complete the 'maze' portion of route 14 or the line of bikers just below it.. 😒😔 I chose to battle most of the trainers on the docks, but haven't defeated the Snorlax there because I avoided the area like the plague.. 😅😂 So many bird trainers built EXACTLY the same and then just weak female campers. It's not even rewarding to explore what's behind the trees that can be cut.. theres like one tm alongside the docks and that's literally it! No interesting new pokemon to catch within those grass patches. Just all the same repetitive Kanto bs. I hate Route 14, probably the most out of any Pokémon route ever.

Even as a little kid playing this I thought this area sucked

I think the genius of gen 1 Pokémon games was in the realistic and mundane vibe of the games. Early kanto was supposed to represent the banality of everyday life. I heard a KZfaqr describe the feeling of gen 1 games as “claustrophobic.” Kanto just looks like an ordinary everyday city based area you’d see just walking around outside. Most of the trainers are just normal people you’d see every day and the only interesting areas are deep dungeons you’d have to explore very hard to find. These two routes (26 & 27 I think) are like areas you’d see just walking around outside. They have very weak trainers that are basically just normal people with Pokémon. Last time I played it I found myself wishing they were at least 10 levels ahead because it became mindless grinding after a while. The fishermen with 6 magikarp is just a big middle finger to whoever’s playing and it’s actually kinda funny. The routes suck to grind through but I appreciate that a series like Pokémon actually tried to represent so much realism into an adventure series. Johto and hoenn are so imaginative compared to kanto, so kanto was really just a stepping stone creatively for the later gens. The realistic and grounded vibe of kanto really shows that Pokémon didn’t expect to ever get big. At that time they just wanted to make a game that took place in our world where everyday people collected small monsters they could battle with. It’s a very small concept compared to what Pokémon would later become.

There's also a rare candy in that area and a Snorlax and a rival encounter

Where I got my shiny Chansey! Then learned what softboiled was in celadon city with my surfing Nidoking 😂

Idk. I mean, I havent played this since I was a kid, but I did enjoy it. It kind of feels like a gauntlet, a huge open area that you have to defeat so many people to get through. There is something thrilling about that, but those are the opinons of a child.

Another way gen 1 (and by extension the franchise as a whole) despite its six years in development, was never really all that good #pokemonwasnevergood

People like going down cycling road? Weird. I always hated it because you move to fast downhill to avoid trainers and you move to slow up hill to get back to Celadon.

They really should have put Moltres there, inside a cave that required flash. Only having flash be useful in one location pissed me off as a kid.

You kinda covered it in that it’s all about EXP… Non-E4 trainer battles are an extremely finite resource, so getting your Pokemon from, say, levels 30-50 in the mid-game is hugely important.

You have to factor in that I was 8 years old when I got this game for Christmas. Every area was an amazing experience of getting lost and smashed by trainers because alot of the games vocabulary was beyond an 8 year olds brain. I remember asking my mom what abandonded meant because i would always delete my moves on accident.

I only ever really use this area for exp grinding.

What we really need to talk about is how that guy lost his TEETH in the safari zone. How???

When I played it as a child and went down the routes, it really was harrowing. But I felt accomplished upon reaching Fuchsia, it was a challenge and getting there by the skin of your teeth and figuring out where the pokecenter was to heal up from that gauntlet felt exciting. I agree that there could have been better ways to reach a similar feeling, but it worked for me, although crossing it is really annoying in retrospect.

Had to subscribe when I saw the Ursaring pfp. Forever my favorite Normal type ❤

I always liked this part of the map. I spent most of my postgame walking around that area. The fact, that I didn't have to be there made that place so calming

Don't think the IVs do much at this level, it's maybe just 2 points per stat or so. Just turns out that Low Sweep off 80 base Attack is pretty strong for this stage of the game. Bugsy's Scyther with U-turn is a similar thing. Speedrun doesn't care because it picks Cyndaquil, but casually that's one of the strongest gym mons ever.

Tbh, when I play old Pokémon games, I make sure to fight every trainer so I’m not under level by the time I reach the league. Somehow I have gotten to that point many times and it’s annoying.

I alwaus forget to grab the bike, so this is actually the main route I take to Fuchsia. It is still quite tedious though, but good to get your levels up!

When I first played Red as a kid, I spammed Repel. Once I had my team I would just save, almost before every gym fight including the other trainers in the gym. I wouldn’t fight wild Pokémon to level up, mainly fought to catch to get Prof Oaks aid items. I leveled up my Pokémon battling trainers mainly and I remember that area being where I could usually get two or three final evolutions to continue the game. I’d skip a lot just to get to the point before getting the silph scope, pay off the guards with lemonade and battle every trainer I could before fight Erica and moving on. Every play through I somewhat do the same ever since. I like to look at the south east area as an area that a lot of veteran trainers go to “hide out” in nature or something battling each other and just hanging out with their pokemon. It is a bunch of nothing but I enjoy it til this day.

I think the route south of Lavender is cute, and juxtaposes the bleak atmosphere the player has experienced. I also think south-east Kanto is a useful location for doubling back and grinding if you aren't ready for the level jumps waiting for you in Fuchsia and Saffron.

Maybe the south east was supposed to have more, perhaps moltres original location? But they cut for whatever reason and filled with copy paste content

SE kanto is an alternative route if you can’t find the bike great for training

The reql crime is not fixing this area up in any of the remakes. Could have easily added a new city with a Contest Hall in FRLG or HGSS. And its a downright sin they didnt add anything to this area in Lets Go. At least GSC added that Aerodactyl trade, lol.

I never seen this area as optional. It was always the way I went, because it was the most instinctual/intuitive. I didn't have to be "motivated" to go there, or "go out of my way" to go there. It's just the natural path to take. We don't all think like speedrunners when playing games, looking for "optimal routes" or ways to cut out parts of the games we're playing. I've never even thought of this area as optional until seeing this video.

I liked it because it's an area without much grass and with many trainers close to a pokemon center in the late game, giving me a chance to battle a lot non stop to have fun with the recently evolved parties before wrapping up for the last few gyms and the elite 4

It's simple really, most of Kanto and especially Johto are geographically accurate to real world japanese locations and major routes to lead to them. It could be that there's an actual long alternative path to get to the city so they made this path. After all, gen 1's target audience were Japanese kids.

The only time I experienced this much suffering was when I barely managed to beat Champion Lance in Soulsilver with a level 41 dragonair, level 41 quagsire, level 41 heracross, level 41 entei, level 42 raikou, and level 46 lugia. The dang lvl 49 dragonites were so painful. Luckily I grinded forever and had to use like 20 revives and a bunch of max potions and full restores. Thank god that there’s that vent grinding place in the team rocket area among other places.

Maybe because its a kids game, and as 10yo kids, we looked everywhere. They didn't expect grown chilsren to have all this knowledge 20 years later

Or maybe use 1 effing mudslap to start

Did you seriously call Pokémon games an RPG? 😂 Open world, maybe. But not an RPG.

That route can’t be water based… you don’t have surf yet

It offers several advantages 1st, as you mentioned, some new Pokemon. Sure, they can be found at other places, but this means you can enjoy traveling around while trying to fill the dex rather than staying in one place 2nd, a chance to train and battle and earn more money 3rd, alternative routes for traveling and going around Kanto. Take it away and you have many less methods to go around and it makes Kanto much more linear. If it's too unique, then it kinda makes it feel more necessary. 4th, it makes Kanto feel more full 5th, it's just nice to explore and travel around with the items and battles being a nice bonus Personally, I think it's a great addition. Like, could they improve it??? Yes, 100%. I feel that many limitations are due to how crunched Gamefreak was when making these games.... Like maybe adding a few unique Pokemon. But overall, I think it's actually find and for me personally, having more to explore and having alternative routes was actually a great option..... I honestly don't think this is filler. This is literally an alternate route. It helps make each journey and adventure unique and different than your friend's play through. You are probably judging the route after watching tons of speedruns and no longer having the heart of enjoying and traveling around the region. Remember, these games probably weren't meant to be played THIS much... so it kinda messes with your perspective.

I don’t think I’ve got any problems with this area, the items and EXP were more than enough for me. I get how the trainer battles and map design might not be too interesting, but I never really minded it. I think you could argue the routes to and from the Seafoam Islands (and the Islands themselves) are much less interesting. The routes are a ton of water where you fight swimmers using a lot of the same Pokémon and the Islands don’t have much going for them other than Articuno and a few exclusive Pokémon. I usually skip them unless I’m hurting for EXP or really want some of the items, but Articuno’s Catch Rate is so low that I really can’t be bothered. There are much better water-type Pokémon you can get before this point making most of the unique Pokémon there nothing more than Dex entries.

That Machop is in the top percentile of Machops

Is it underdeveloped or grindy? Yes. But you missed two important points... 1. Grinding. Yes, it's boring - more so in the instant gratification age - but levelling up your Pokémon is essential and this is a great area, especially to level up additional team members as there are a variety of trainer types to level up with. (+EXP share - which is there by design despite the coding error in gen1) 2. Kanto is based... On Kanto. And it's trying to be representative of a real world place. It's important they try and do that in a good way. I think that's more than enough reason. They could have made it more interesting. Maybe it could have been themed as a survival gauntlet in one area, that's really hard to get through and you get a nice reward at the end.

Cycling road is also optional lol I always referred going through the south east area to fuschia city rather than Cycling road, more trainers, more exp, ever since I was a kid when first Gen came out

at least these areas has the best music in any generation of games, ever

At the very least, and I think this actually is genuinely important, it does make the world feel bigger and more populated in a way that another Sea Foam islands wouldn't. Like, if the area simply weren't there or was replaced by a sea route (when we already have two of those) then Kanto would feel lacking in size and scope. This also served to make the world less linear, which it definitely would feel if it didn't exist (similarily the guards blocking Saffron City didn't need to be designed that way, Vermilion could have been a straight shot from Cerulean, but by putting Saffron in the center and (somewhat contrively) blocking it off, you make the world feel more spread out and open. Even if you never go to south east Kanto, simply existing impacts the feel of the map and world. Could something more interesting have been put there? For sure, just like something more interesting could have been put in many parts of the game, but the question is, what? Would taking away the unique pokemon locations from other locations help? Would less be more? Maybe it would feel more special, but , again, it'd also make the world feel a bit more constricted. Ideally they should have tried to fit Moltres somewhere in there, as Moltres just being put in the mandatory Victory Road always felt like a cop out to me, but if it were all replaced with a Sea Foam Island like location then it'd step on the lived in aspect I mentioned before. Honestly, probably the best thing to do would have just been to put a small town in there where you can acquire a key item for unlocking something else.

It's for grinding You're supposed to grind This is a great place to go after getting your pokemon to level 36 early(I like to get my team to 36 before the third gym), you eat up so much exp Grinding isn't supposed to be fun It's a chore that makes your overall gaming experience more fun. Do you even grind 😅😅

I have always wondered this but this does not yet explain what that region is inteded to be. Even the east vermilinion route makes no sense? Its a wide open feild with a lot of wild grass with open wires? Leading out to the coast from vermillion habour???

Games came with manuals back then.

The routes you are talking about actually have the most merit to me because of pay day, mostly because I wanted to legitimately purchase a bike to go down the other side. I wanted to see if I could do it. Well I can't 😅. You need 1,000,000 poke bucks. I can only hold 999,999 so... Ummm... You can't lol

I think we have to consider how without the 30 years of experience with these games, when these games came out, the bike was relatively pretty hidden and pretty easy to miss

I always hated this part of the region in every generation it appears in. It feels even worse in Gen 2 aside from the in-game trade of Aerodactyl for a Chansey. Although I don't really like Cycling Road that much either.