Help me reach my goal of 1,000 subscribers. You're my only hope.

What I find ironic that the EU haters criticized the old canon for being a mess, despite the hierarchy tier system the EU had, and yet Disney Star Wars couldn't keep their own continuity consistent.

One more note about Dark Empire. Luke also "turns to the dark side" to better understand the dark side. Which helps him better understand the Force as a whole, and be a better teacher in NJO.

Here's the thing the haters DON'T understand. If it was never canon, why even discontinue it at all? It's just that "parallel universe" that's non-canon, and the rebranding is even _more_ justification to keep it going under the new title, the way fans were asking back in 2014, and they deliberately ignore us. They're not "officially" clarifying that it was "never canon," the way apologists insist, because even if you subscribe to the idea that George was behind all the retcons in TCW, hey, at least the Clone Wars period still existed when he was in charge, it wasn't just purged from the history of the timeline. The hierarchy of canon followed the old formula that had been in place with the original sequel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, as George was always fine allowing his story to be continued in a smaller format if he didn't possess the budget to go bigger and flashier, and despite Empire Strikes Back actually being made, the original sequel, the novel, still fit into the old EU almost seamlessly. The hierarchy of canon was a model that worked back then and still works today as it ensures that while bits of the EU can be picked up and put in the movies and that pieces of the EU could be overwritten, most of it would still exist and continue expanding - the exact same thing Disney Star Wars is doing now. Why else would the Disney sequel trilogy require a hard reboot, clean slate, and wipe out even the Old Republic era, when you really only needed to jettison the post-Endor timeline? Because they wanted to rewrite Star Wars from day one, as simple as that. It's only complicated if you CHOOSE to make it complicated by closing your mind.

Every single time I saw Disney steal characters from Legends/EU and make a zombified version of them I died a little inside... first time I saw TFA I was screaming inside about how Jason was being ripped off... and he was plagiarised so incredibly badly, too.

The canonicity tier system is something that bites Disney back time and time again. Because they do not have such a system, it's the reason why stuff like TCW Season 7 retconning the Ahsoka novel or Bad Batch retconning Kanan The Last Padawan keep happening. People have put so much faith in the hack Filoni, they're either willing to accept or blissfully ignorant of these retcons. We've reached a point where Disney Star Wars have become an inbred freak : the Kenobi show has so much stuff lifted off Jedi Fallen Order, it's not even funny.

I am quite amazed that the Expanded universe was so good that they even patched plot holes that were created by the comics before the prequels!

Star Wars Legends retcons remind me of Venture Bros retcons, where they come up with cool ways to add more relevance to an undercooked idea that wasn't allowed to be elaborated on at the time. It's cool seeing Thrawn trilogy characters during the context of the prequel era in stuff like the Jedi Quest books. The EU was rich and vast.

The EU, is and always will be the real canon. Disney Star Wars is trash

Another note about the Sun Crusher: It's very obvious that it was one of the many wacky Maw Installation prototype gadgets that was being developed *alongside* the Death Star, so with that in mind, it can be easily inferred that it took much longer to perfect than the Death Star, due to its absurdly strong armor and resonance torpedoes.

Calling Dave Filoni a cowboy is an insult to all cowboys everywhere.

The expanded universe is probably more accessible now since there are so many in depth videos on KZfaq about it. I actually became a fan of the Expanded Universe by casually reading Star Wars guidebooks and Wookiepedia articles. I haven’t read the books or played the video games, outside of Star Wars Battlefront and Force Unleashed.

The heretics will pay for their crimes.

33:24 You've gotta be shitting down my throat, they wrote a book about Padme dealing with *PERIODS??*

Wow ! Just discovered your challenge and I am impressed. I am a big EU fan and you spoke straight facts throughout this entire video. I wish more Star Wars fans saw the truth that is this video ! Amazing work

Great video dude, every prequel hater needs to APOLOGIZE to george.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t think much of Dark Empire before listening to the Audiodrama. It felt like watching a movie dualogy. Here’s the audio drama kzfaq.info/sun/PLD2gfN6G-FZ1pOV-1hHT70qKfBHd9QOSs since it isn’t available for purchase unless you have 554$ dollars lying around for the cd.

Love this video. Definitely linking this to any EU hater I come across from now on. :{

Here's a simple question for eu haters. If it was never canon why did Lucasfilm half to make a statement that its no longer canon.

Dave should have never given that much power but then again, none of this should be a problem because Dave should have respected the established lore and build upon it, not retcon it 😮😮

Can you do a reaction video to Rowan J Coleman's video on canon. He's arguing that you shouldn't decanonise anything in fandom and we should just accept the sequel trilogy and move forward. He's also a fan of star trek discovery so he can't really be helped.

Fantastic video btw. Love seeing EU misconceptions debunked.

I would like to say as one of J.J’s co-writers is that even though I don’t have much experience in the EU or have much interest in it overall, I still understand what it means to certain Star Wars fans like you guys and I’m sure it tells plenty of great stories over the years.

This really shows how Kathleen Kennedy was lying thru her teeth when she said "There was no original source material to draw from" or she's just ignorant about the EU.

I haven’t read dark empire but a sequel fan tried telling me rise of skywalker was an adaptation of it. I explained to him the sequels had LITERALLY no context for palpatines return and to make to worse, no foreshadowing, something Star Wars is known for and he tried counting dark empire as foreshadowing like wtf

I’ve been looking foward to this

Amazing and important video. Watched this a few days ago, and been sharing it around since!

Has anyone ever made a genuine attempt at your challenges?

I have heard TWC was later explained as Republic propaganda or at least some it, if I am not mistaken Fantasy Flight Games (they make Star Wars tabletop stuff) uses COMPOR later COMPNOR to explain some of the conflicting sources from TCW and the Old EU. I do remember a theory on Reddit that TCW is Republic propaganda with the blasting music and the stinger that follows it is similar to allied propaganda in WW2. I would prefer TCW treated as propaganda given I am beginning to explore the Clone Wars Multimedia project, so I far prefer the Old EU as it does better job telling stories and doesn’t make the separatist look like an 80s cartoon villain, it is far more realistic than what TCW does. And this coming from someone who grew up with TCW and both prequels and original trilogy. They are some elements I liked from TCW, like the Umbara Arc, the Commando Droids and the tactical droids. As you can see it is a short list.

Ftr, both Filoni and George both came up with the idea of Anakin having an apprentice. This is covered in the Star Wars The Clone Wars: The Official Episode Guide, Season 1 pp. 7-9. So even if Filoni didn't come up with the idea, George was already on his way to adding an apprentice to the Chosen One. He came up with her name, her race and even her personality, while Filoni's ideas about her being timid and a little bit shy were shunted in favor of George's idea of having her be a firebrand that makes up nicknames for people.

I’ve never fully read the EU I Have watched vids on some tho.

Here is all 3 audiobooks of the Thrawn trilogy. kzfaq.info/sun/PLlKJO4D2BftV-zZFT7gtxJt9VfT2MsQIM

Miss Before Disney Star Wars 🥺

Old video but I’m currently preparing to read the Clone Wars Multimedia Project. Recently I’ve become tired of the Disney and TCW. I remember reading a lot of post ROTJ EU when I was a kid and enjoyed it, but never got into the EU if that makes any sense. I also rewatched a lot of Disney stuff over the past few months and it fell incredibly flat imo. Also the Bad Batch season 3 was incredibly disappointing and honestly was really the catalyst for my interest in the EU. Prequels are my favorites and I noticed all the flaws and contradictions in TCW and Disney stuff on the rewatch and kinda felt upset that I never noticed them before. I’m not a TCW hater but it just doesn’t fit for me anymore. I’m excited for the full CWMMP experience

As someone who has read Dark Empire, I don't think it's very good. HOWEVER, I do think it's less problematic than the Disney Sequels and Rise of Skywalker, for a handful of reasons. 1) Even though Palpatine returns and has an inexplicable large army and inexplicable super weapons, at least in Dark Empire, they provide something of a rule for why Palpatine survived and why he won't after Dark Empire. They explain that his spirit fled his body and went into a clone body. Now there are rumors the same is true in TRoS, but what makes Dark Empire different is --- at the end of the final installment of Dark Empire, the spirit of Sidious tries to fly into baby Anakin Solo's body to possess him -- but instead, an ex-Jedi named Brand steps in front of the baby and Sidious's soul goes into him instead. Basically, Brand traps Sidious's soul inside himself, and because Brand is dying, that extinguishes Sidious's soul once and for all. It's not the strongest writing, but at least it's something to latch onto, as far as why this time, Palpatine's death will be permanent. 2) It's very soon after Return of the Jedi. Dark Empire is only 6 years after Return of the Jedi. So even though Palpatine returns and forces the Republic off of Coruscant, it's early enough in the timeline that when they defeat him, they can bring back the Republic and the Jedi for real. Whereas the Disney Sequel Trilogy is 30 years after the OT. Luke Han & Leia rebuilt the Republic and the Jedi, only for them to be destroyed. By the end of the Sequels, Luke, Han, & Leia are dead, and it just feels like the entire generation after Return of the Jedi was pointless. But in Dark Empire, less time is made pointless. And Luke hadn't even started bringing the Jedi back yet in Dark Empire, so they didn't have to destroy anything there. 3) Luke Skywalker bringing back the Jedi. Palpatine was only a part of Dark Empire. Another huge part of Dark Empire was Luke Skywalker beginning his quest to bring back the Jedi Knights and train new students. One of the most quoted lines from Dark Empire is "The Jedi Knights shall rise again!" There's so much mythology and world building in Dark Empire, at least as far as ancient Jedi are concerned. The planet Ossus is introduced, as well as older former Jedi like Bodo Baas, Vima Da Boda, Empatojayos Brand, and Ood Bnar (who's literally a talking tree). Luke actually starts finding some students like Kam Solusar, Rayf Ysanna, and Gem Ysanna. So Luke isn't an apathetic hermit who wants the Jedi to end and doesn't want to oppose evil like is is in The Last Jedi. Even when he joins Sidious, as J.J.P. pointed out, he does it to infiltrate Sidious and take him down from the inside. Even when he turns to the Dark Side, it's only because of how harrowing the experience is. He's not doing it out of betrayal.

The only thing’s I have watched, read and played 2 game’s. - Tale’s of the Jedi, Ulic & Beast Wars, Nomi, Nadd Uprising, Dark Lord’s and Sith Wars (so far only 4 book’s) - Knight’s of the Old Republic Duology R.P.G’s - Clone Wars 2003 I have some game’s too (Jedi Academy & Outcast and Republic Commando). These are the only thing’s I have delve into the Original Expanded Universe. I like it so far because I just do, there many character’s in my list of best. Darth Revan, Kreia/Darth Traya, Ulic, Mandalore the Preserver, Mandalore the Indaminable (misspelling), Master Vodo and Nomi and Exar Kun. Those are just a few, but the stuff I’ve explored of The Old Republic so far is my favorite era.

While I don't like the idea of Anakin having an apprentice either, wasn't it Lucas that came up with Ahsoka?

Ah, palpamemes. I remember dealing with him and another idiot named Ruby on the Battlefront discord before I left it. Quite anti EU and very annoying.

I blame Lucasfilm more then Filoni for the contradictions. They were incompetent to hold Filoni feet to the fire and just let him do what he wanted it seem. There should have been an ore overseer like Leeland Chee to make sure Filoni doesn't contradict. What's going on at Lucasfilm and Star Wars now doesn't feel nothing change. Maybe it's worst at this point.

36:17 this one is smoothed over as in disney canon Yoda had at least two lightsabers.. this has so far been my only complaint about this video

I really want to see you debunk that idiot who made that debunking video of your response to Arthus850. They have such little understanding of authenticity and basic storytelling that it’s sad. I’d love to see you tear their arguments apart like I know you easily can.

30:45 thought we didn't notice, but we did.

What about those of us who think G canon is the only canon, and that EU and Disney canon are both "What if?" stories? Basically, it's just G canon, and everything else is "what if?". Same with JAWS 1. JAWS is canon. JAWS 2 is just a What if. Same with the ET commercial that's a sequel to ET. It's just a what if. Same as the EU. Same as Disney Star Wars.

I think it’s funny when eu haters complain about mt. Sorrow when Disney canon has Geode. A fucking rock that’s a navigator on a ship in a high republic novel

Did Luke fall in love with Calista before Mara?

You will ask them general questions, to make sure they read it? They can use a short summary to answer those I guess. Ask them things that arenT obvious! Things they can know ONLY if they read the book.,

5:00

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO A 10 CHALLENGES FOR SPECIAL EDITION HATERS BEFORE YOU DO THE 5 CHALLENGES FOR DAVE FILONI GROUPIES CAUSE I HONESTLY DON'T THINK THE 5 CHALLENGES FORMAT COULD WORK FOR THAT KIND OF VIDEO

One of the best videos ever

39:33 LAIR!!!

You overestimate them. Give them challenges they can actually complete, like "make yourself a sandwich" or "tie your shoes".

So that created a t canon slot for tcw. What!! Why? Given the fact that the eu has been around longer than tcw and has kept mostly consistent continuity with g canon, shouldn't thr t canon slot be under the eu slot? I mean, why give one show more freedom than books, games and comics that have been around for decades. That's completely disrespectful and unfair the the eu writers who have worked hard to kept things consistent, though to be fair, Filoni should have been more consistent with the eu out of respect for the eu writers and for established lore

I didn't like Thrawn in OT era it made no sense. Also no Luke and Mara in the story, lame. And Disney Thrawn is so weak. You are right about Clone Wars being lower canon from the films, Disney elevated it to the same level of canon of films 1-6. And also, their sequel trilogy and all their cartoon shows, comics and novels.

Here is what you should do with the ten challenges series, you should come back to it in a few years and make another trilogy that everyone hates for some reason, then sell it to a sequels shill who proceeds to bastardize the entire franchise in exchange for a million subscribers

-Sequel- Disney fanboys use "the EU was trash" as their copium lmao

A lot of the stuff here is still really goofy. And FYI I say this as an EU fan. And before the gatekeeping of who is or isn’t an EU fan comes back up, I own almost every print piece of EU ever produced. Using the EU for example you skipped over the fact that the empire built another 2 Death Stars. A pro type shell and inbetween 1 and 2 they constructed the Tarkin super laser. They also had the super ice weapon super weapon inbetween them. And a claiming SSD super weapon.

36:25, Yoda had a second saber. This is super basic. Thats been established since 2016 in the complete locations.

Jesus dude why do you hate Dave filoni and his fans so much ?

As someone who actually likes the EU, I have to disagree on the Disney rehashing stuff. I think it is unfair to hate on the inclusion of EU concepts and characters *unless* these are done ridiculously poorly such as Thrawn's return and the use of Scorpeneks in Book of Boba Fett which was god awful. I still appreciate the Canon Thrawn novels, the references to the *real* Tales of the Jedi (not the Filoni shit), Darth Revan, the Tarkin novel in general, nods to the Outrider, etc etc. My main reason for saying this is that it proves that there are people who actually care in Lucasfilm who aren't just morons.