Who's the Most Invested? | The Final 2023 Words of Brandon

Who's the Most Invested? | The Final 2023 Words of Brandon | Shardcast

Рет қаралды 10,284

Күн бұрын

We're finally wrapping up 2023 Words of Brandon, with WoBs hot off the presses like things our Brandon interview last July and other odds and ends. But there's still some interesting stuff, like silver, Reliquaries, and more!
This episode we have Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), Ben (Overlord Jebus), and Verónica (Cheyenne Sedai)!
Our Brandon interview: • Mistborn Era 3 Title, ...
Thumbnail art is Backlit by Wonder, by Aliya Chen: coppermind.net/wiki/File:Back...
0:00:00 Introductions
0:02:51 Charlie
0:09:12 Is Yumi immortal now? + raysium dagger thoughts
0:15:37 Lots of silver
0:21:52 Lutha
0:23:50 Father machine's Command
0:25:40 Rat skulls glow
0:26:34 Horneater
0:28:58 Who is the most Invested?
0:41:57 Could yoki-hijo use other magical effects
0:46:05 Father machine and Taking Memories
0:49:18 Paintbrush similarity to Shardblades
0:50:34 How are Threnodites so well known?
0:55:12 Disease magic
0:59:34 Shades and the Reliquaries
1:05:06 Could Hoid get rid of his Torment?
1:09:20 Who's That Cosmere Character
If you like our content, support us on Patreon: / 17thshard
For discussion, theories, games, and news, come to www.17thshard.com
Come talk with us and the community on the 17th Shard Discord: / discord
Want to learn more about the cosmere and more? The Coppermind Wiki is where it's at: coppermind.net
Read all Words of Brandon on Arcanum: wob.coppermind.net
Subscribe to Shardcast: / sounds.rss
Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to wtcc@17thshard.com
#brandonsanderson #cosmere

Пікірлер: 84

@samthestache8 Ай бұрын

I read that thumbnail as "Last Words of Brandon" and just about had a heart attack

@8684LYFE Ай бұрын

Same lol.

@Axartsme Ай бұрын

Idk about anyone else but I for one am loving the constant WOB episodes.

@elsecaller-jacob8346 Ай бұрын

Long time no see Ben!

@Lightspren Ай бұрын

What? A Shardcast episode that is less than 90 minutes? How rare! Also. Diceborn season two when? Please tell me it’s soon… Edit: Finally got to the end of the episode. Ben did actually say it was coming “soon”. And I already have been rewatching sisg and season 1 on repeat, but the rewatching s1 just makes me more impatient😂. That cliffhanger makes me mad in a good way every time.

@solitaryrecluse7740 Ай бұрын

I blame the short episode on Argent. No show-and-tell or 15 minute tangents before the episode even begins. It was kind of shocking how quickly they started into the episode this time. PS... Not a critique of Evgeni, I love the chaos he can bring to the group.

@17thShard Ай бұрын

Am I losing my mind? Is there any textual evidence Yumi is literally becoming more Invested as the cycles continue? I am so baffled by this! -Eric

@ctom42 Ай бұрын

I came out of the book believing she was getting more invested over time. There is a quote about how every time a spirit fulfills her request it takes something from her that eventually grows back. To me this very much sounds like the process of building muscles or bone density. If a spiritweb is a container for investiture imagine it being drained and refilled over and over and stretching a little bit each time. It never made any sense to me for the Yoki-hijo to be Elantrian level power when their only job was to call spirits. She is so powerful because of the 1700 years. IMO the Brandon WoB 100% confirms this. I don't think the invested at birth thing is even true. I think the people choosing the baby via whatever means gives them a connection to the spirit, and through their training they grow more powerful. The having it at birth thing from the text isn't from Hoid, it's from Yumi. It's based on how she believes it works, not necessarily how it actually works.

@solitaryrecluse7740 Ай бұрын

There could also be something with the way the Father Machine is blanking their memories. Brandon specifically mentions that unlike in other cases the memories are not being destroyed or removed. They are being overwritten. The small amount of investiture needed to do this may have built up over the millennia.

@ArcturSophos Ай бұрын

I don't think there's any textual evidence that she's gaining investiture over time, evidence that she had that amount of investiture at birth. My pet theory is that yokihijo are born with slightly more investiture than the average person, and that gives them the ability to commune with the spirits. And the act of commuting with the spirits leave some residual investiture. Normally this amount wouldn't be significant, over the course of a regular lifespan. But in the 1700 years of hurricane any more skill, she's building up more investiture. If this is the case, it's probably some sort of exponential curve, as with more skills she pulls more spirits which then leaves behind more investiture.

@diepie5144 Ай бұрын

if Yumi (and the rest of the Yoki-hijo) were gaining investiture, then eventually their power would exceed the father-machine's ability to reset their memories would it not?

@grantblack4631 Ай бұрын

I believe there was a line in the books that for the entire thousand years, she didn’t actually draw any REAL spirits, only illusions to keep the act going. Only when she attained a certain level of skill was she able to draw one away from the father machine which plead with her to free them, and connected her to Painter. This disproves the theory of her siphoning power from the spirits over that time, I don’t think there was any evidence pointing to her increasing in investiture.

@curtiswfranks Ай бұрын

Related to the Raysium and Yumi discussion: What would a Raysium dagger do to a drab? What about a person with the Breath with which they were born? What about a single Breath, but which they acquired from someone else?

@seeker38 Ай бұрын

That's pretty hard to guess since we've only seen it used to move investiture that's in something else (like Spren in a gem or stormlight from a human). Here's my guess. We've seen that it just drains Stormlight from a stabbed Radiant and doesn't immediately suck up their soul. So either it will do nothing to a drab or to someone's innate Breath, or you have to stab them for much longer. Might also require a much larger gem. If it can draw out an innate Breath I still think it would stop at making someone a drab.

@connor_phillipz5689 Ай бұрын

I dont remember a time where Ben did Who's that Cosmere character and actually said "WTCC" instead of "WTTC" It's always funny 😂

@TayNez63 Ай бұрын

I’m catching up on episodes and so glad to see Ben back on the panel!

@connor_phillipz5689 Ай бұрын

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like Brandon has said Dragonsteel is going to be the only first person pov Cosmere book which to me implies it's going to be from Hoid's pov. I could be misremembering or misinterpreting, but that's always been my understanding. EDIT: I think I found the WOB I was remembering, but there could be others. It's from the Legion Release Party on September 19, 2018. "Like, the first person book I'll do in the Cosmere, I probably won't do one until I do Hoid's book."

@practicepositiveprogress5396 Ай бұрын

I agree with this sounding like it will be first person Hoid, but I think the distinction is, is this first person present tense, or first person past tense? It would be very different if Hoid is telling this as he is actively going through it, "I am doing this, I feel this way" vs "I did this, I felt that way". Hindsight and time to cope (or not cope) really change the perspective of the story.

@connor_phillipz5689 Ай бұрын

Good point@@practicepositiveprogress5396

@sucette92 Ай бұрын

Nightblood at 4, also had Mare for the first question at 3 and was just as upset as Eric when it was wrong. Agree with Ian about Yumi becoming more invested over time.

@hubrisnxs2013 Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@17thShard Ай бұрын

Thank you!!! -Eric

@mndrew1 Ай бұрын

Looking forward to Yumi performing "Noodle shop of horrors" in the Cosmere musical.

@elisewest6216 Ай бұрын

Yay more content 🎉

@nroke1684 Ай бұрын

I got nightblood before the cast. Could i get a compliment overlord?

@shao-ningwu9209 Ай бұрын

Omg Threnody is such a perfect setting for a survial horror game

@en-priestess7964 Ай бұрын

I definitely read it the same as Eric! I think that yoki hijo at some point in the past were less invested and what could have changed was when Virtuosity splintered herself, it created more free investiture that was then imbued in all the yoki hijo since. Yumi didn’t get more invested than all the rest, she just became the most skilled of all time because of her 1700 years of experience.

@samwhite4961 Ай бұрын

50:01 painter also is connected to a shardblade… one who ran a noodle shop. Maybe they “helped”. Painter shares a lot of qualities with a Lightweaver

@practicepositiveprogress5396 Ай бұрын

First time watching one of these as it comes out! (Or within a day) Yall are my new background listening while between rereads of brandos work. But sometimes i just end up yelling at the screen cuz i have a different thought and i need opinions!

@karmaticneutral1077 Ай бұрын

The "Spirits" that Yumi drew were mostly fakes created by the shroud. The thing that was special that happened when she was connected to painter was that she actually managed to draw a real one. So she wouldn't have been interacting with spirits at all for most of the 1400 years. She could somehow have been siphoning extra investiture from the shroud or something, but the spirits were not making her more invested.

@laggypirates 17 күн бұрын

I was like “wait what star map” then noticed it’s literally Eric’s background.

@17thShard 16 күн бұрын

Lol -Eric

@curtiswfranks Ай бұрын

I have wanted a fantasy world which actually operates under the principles of the four humors and astrology. Maybe that could tie into the disease magic.

@ama_goto Ай бұрын

Ben is the true protagownist of this show

@ilregiallo4151 Ай бұрын

The Fused use raysium to take away Radiant's stormlight, but I doubt they can take away their innate inversiture (aka their soul) without wounding them to death, just like they did with Jezrien. For example, I doubt that having a raysium needle connected to a proberly big gemstone and stuck into your arm for hours woud have any effect. I think that, in order for raysium to take your soul, the bond with the body must be already being severed, and I would say that the Divine Breath is very connected to the soul (maybe it completely replaced the soul, according to Vasher). The Mother Machine and Nightblood are the two beings that certainly can take away every drop of investiture people are made of. BUT, you can permantly take away part of a regular person innate investiture if you use hemalurgy properly, even without killing them. So I'm not sure (however we must remember that raysium can be certainly used for hemalurgy with the proper intent).

@Grux_ASG Ай бұрын

Yokihijo becoming more powerful the better they become at art, and heralds becoming more powerful if they align to oaths both match up in terms of align yourself with your shards intent gives you more power, but this is news to me

@Apollo9898LP Ай бұрын

Small point but in one of the Dragonsteel WOBs i'm fairly certain that Brandon clarified about Silver that it doesn't destroy Investiture (only Anti-Investiture does that) but it disrupts investiture. His example was if you swiped silver through a pillar of sand that a Sand Master was using to move around, the pillar would disperse and the Sand Master would fall. But after that dispersal, they'd be able to manipulate the sand again. So it just sort of disrupts the magic that's happening.

@robertpanasuk1156 Ай бұрын

I guess Night Blood correctly on Clue one.

@leonardolf6974 Ай бұрын

First time I watched the initial logo frame by frame... I doubt it is just a coincidence that the arrow head break into 17 ...shards... and then re-mends itself with one of then yellow...

@Haxerous Ай бұрын

39:03 I don't think Brandon is talking about the Heralds investiture levels after they were initially invested. He mentions the oaths before the Knights radiants, it's about when they first became Heralds and joined the Oathpact. The heralds varying in investiture is the variation between Heralds not the same Herald varying in investiture over time (with may be the exception of Nale coz he would get a boost from his Nahel bond).

@JaxKordela Ай бұрын

For those of you on the cast that are currently beta reading for Wind and Truth, is it hard to have discussions about stormlight without spoiling or are most of these episodes filmed before you started reading to avoid accidental leaks?

@ClayInvictus Ай бұрын

I get Eric's reasoning about Yumi's power levels, but Occam's razor tells me he's probably wrong. Being better at drawing and using investiture and being more invested often seem to go hand in hand in the Cosmere.

@enbyglitch Ай бұрын

They definitely say shades are drawn to the reliquaries post death, so i think new ones are being added

@mineton1293 Ай бұрын

YAY I got not not nightblood at clue 3!

@boppy9617 25 күн бұрын

Wouldn't the morbid origin of the ways off threnody be the death of Ambition. Like that investiture is scattered across the planet and allows for a bunch dynamic perpendicularities.

@oneukum Ай бұрын

17:00 Silver is a metal know for very long. If it could kill spren, how coud they not know and still consider themselves immortal? 23:00 Sixteen - the Lord Ruler's son?

@Apollo9898LP Ай бұрын

to that first point, he clarified in another WOB (i think during Dragonsteel) that a Spren hit with Silver would have a bad time but would not die. Silver disrupts investiture but doesn't destroy it, he clarified that in said WOB, idk why back during his interview with 17th Shard he seemingly said that Silver could destroy investiture

@oneukum Ай бұрын

@@Apollo9898LP That in turn raises the question what happens if you ram an aluminium spike into a Spren. What is the difference between aluminim and silver at that point?

@spencerd6126 Ай бұрын

I assumed the father machine somehow made the yoki-hijo more powerful when it was turned on

@virgilhawkins3390 Ай бұрын

Rat skulls glow on Threnody because Brandon loves dark souls and in dark souls it's a lore point that rats have a chance to drop souls when killed because they are society's bottom feeders and so souls collect and pool at the very bottom.

@rolandbuysse9374 Ай бұрын

I had nightblood at 4, VALIDATE ME!

@curtiswfranks Ай бұрын

I actually got Nightblood early! I never win WTCC!

@PaoloSarti94 Ай бұрын

Before I listen to this episode, to answer the title: wouldn't it be Sazed by default, since he holds two Shards?

@ladero01 Ай бұрын

I said Nightblood a second before Eric.

@Homar30 Ай бұрын

Ben, where is Diceborn. I need it. And i did went for Dockson partner after clue 3 (to be fair I went for her or Ham's wife so I would get it at clue 3 or 4) edit: ok I saw outro so i hope for that soon.

@Homar30 Ай бұрын

I got Nightblood at clue 4.

@passdoutcouchpotatos Ай бұрын

No podcast on the new chapters released?

@17thShard Ай бұрын

We are recording one soon! We recorded this the same weekend asC2E2. -Eric

@obviousalias132 Ай бұрын

I still think silver should have been used in place of aluminum for the metallic arts. Silver destroying investiture works so much better for wiping Allomantic stores. Aluminum should just not react at all which in itself makes it important to the system.

@solitaryrecluse7740 Ай бұрын

Remember though, the metal is not the source of investiture, only the key to access it. Silver would have nothing to destroy in a Mistborn. Instead aluminum blocks access to the investiture other metals could provide.

@obviousalias132 Ай бұрын

@@solitaryrecluse7740 if the key is made of aluminum then the magic system shouldn’t even be able to recognize it. And aluminum doesn’t just block access to the investiture it destroys your stores of metal in your system.

@solitaryrecluse7740 Ай бұрын

@@obviousalias132 Now this part I can't prove, since I've never heard Brandon asked about it, but I don't believe Aluminum actually takes the other metals out of your body. They are still there, but simply unusable. In the analogy, aluminum plugs up the keyhole so that no other keys can be used. I wish we had more than 1 single example of aluminum allomancy in the entire cosmere. Ooh, I wonder if this explains how duralumin works. It's impure aluminum, so the plug is weak. When you draw another metal while burning duralumin the plug resists causing a pressure buildup that leads to all the investiture coming through at once.

@solitaryrecluse7740 Ай бұрын

Ignore my previous post, I looked up on Arcanum, and Brandon has confirmed that Aluminum does actually remove the metals themselves. Aluminum is weird.

@obviousalias132 Ай бұрын

@@solitaryrecluse7740 its described in book as wiping the stores from the body not just blocking access. And if it didn’t do that then the power doesn’t make sense in context as the person would just be able to burn their metals after the effects of aluminum wear off.

@TheMCChrisco Ай бұрын

When you guys were talking about Silence Divine I had the thought that Stormlight, in a way, is a story about disease and sickness granting powers, only from the mental health / emotional aspect. The radiant spren are attracted to these people often because of the cracks in their spirit webs, but is there some lineage of arcana in the rosharan system that we can walk back to ashyn and the way that investiture is expressed through physical ailment? Idk just an interesting connection of two points in my head. Could be re-tooled into a signing/event question.

@connor_phillipz5689 Ай бұрын

2023. Also known as the year of WOBs

@egwenealvereiscool7726 Ай бұрын

1:18:00 That's my first WTCC on Shardcast!

@Homar30 Ай бұрын

Good one.

@GhostEmblem Ай бұрын

Im not sure but it it seems like you were all working off the idea that Therenodites turn into shades no matter what planet they die on. Was this definately confirmed? Because there also seemed to be some confusion about how it happens in sunlight man.