I still have the 243 my dad gave me for my first deer rifle in my gun safe. It was a custom hunting rifle my grandfather had built for my dad and will hopefully be the rifle my son or daughter will shoot when they get old enough to get in the woods with me... Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!

Recently bought a left handed savage 110 timberline in 243win for target/ coyote/ occasional deer. It still has the 1-9.25 twist, and i wasnt able to get the 95 berger vld to stabilize (may work on it later). It shoots the 90gr eldx amazingly well. Took it a bit to settle in, but shoot a 4 shot one hole group last weekend. I know the longer heavier bullets will do better at super long range, but the 80-95gr stuff is very capable. Mr Mark proved that. I have a Grayboe Phoenix stock being shipped now. When the barrel dies, i will go with a 1-8.5 or 1-8. I still want good performance with the 70gr stuff. Around here, ling range is not long. Tough to find 500yds. So the 70gr stuff shoots laser flat for a long way. Love the videos.

Love my 27" 8 twist .243...pushing 108 ELD-Ms at 3060 fps. It's a laser and so easy to shoot. .243 is a great cartridge and gives up little to the new punks on the block. Keep up the good work!!!

Ive been with 243 for 35 years .700 rimington.87 gr bthp hornady.i am not going anywere else.

Excellent overview. Thanks I recently picked up a 6mm Creedmoor factory rifle and barrel twist rate in factory rifles is what made my decision for me.

Thank you. My sister wants to buy her son in law a rifle to go hunting with his doctor friends. They are all caught up in the 6 mm Creedmoor hype and am going to text her or call her and have her watch your video than have her son in law watch. Not discourage him from buying a 6 mm but educate him on the different calibers. Great video and very informative,thanks again

Who thumbs downs these videos and why? Very balanced and moderate advice. I don’t understand.

Thank you for all the great content!

Been shooting my ruger m77 243 for nearly 30yrs always put meat on the table and these days you can find 243 more places.the creed is good too.nice video

As you said it all comes down to individual. On any given day, I'll take the .243 all day. Personal preference. Thank you for vg platform.

Just now running accross this video and I needed it. I love my .243 and have a couple of loads dialed in for that makes it hum. Cheers from Arkansas 😊

Interesting analysis as always. Thanks for the continued efforts!

Here in the states when it comes to factory ammunition,.243 win is the no brainer. Lots of quality ammo...that was once plentiful. I think shooters tend to obsesse over minutia of 25-50 feet per second quite often. I know I can fall into it. I appreciate the common sense approach you have. Never thought I would be watching an Australian gun channel and enjoying it so much.

Thank you for everything you guys do for us. God bless

and there we have at 1:48 into the video, the finest bit of wisdom I have heard in a long time describing, very kindly in my opinion, how these cartridges have come about, especially their birth's being sales driven. I fully accept and greatly appreciate how the back-room-boys-and-gals tinker away at current cartridges and come up with all this new stuff ( if they didn't we'd have missed out on some world beaters we all use now ) but a lot of it is reinventing the wheel. Thank you so much for the common sense built into this great video : love your work ! happy New Year from Northern Ireland !

Outstanding! I've been shooting the .243 for over 20 year's. Stock rifles with the right factory ammo are impressive in accuracy and capability. With a good hand load you can improve accuracy some and horse power. From varmint to whitetail, 55gr bullet to 100 plus. Most shops carry standard 243 Winchester. Its versatile, accuracy is top notch, reliable, recoil is low, great range and it's a common cartridge to be found to buy, normal times. In my neck of the woods it is one of the best jack of all trade chambers to be had.

Mark, I found your channel a few months ago while searching various videos regarding firearms and reloading. You and Sam are excellent shooters and are a wealth of information. I rarely comment on videos, but felt I could contribute to this video regarding the 6mm Creedmoor, 243 Win and the 243 AI. In addition to the 243 AI, there are two other improved 243 cartridges, which allow shooters to shoot 243 factory loads or new 243 case reloads: the 6mm Comp and the 6mm AM (All Mountain). These two cases were introduced to me by one of the owners from Paradigm Carbon, out of South Dakota. He used a Micron sizing die in the 6 AM and another brand of die in the 6mm Comp (Hornady or Redding if I remember). Several of my hunting/shooting friends or clients have built custom rifles on a 243 improved version for long range coyote hunting and precision long range shooting. Good powders to use with the 100-108 grain bullets in any of these three improved variants are R22, R23, H4831sc and N560. When using these powders, loads usually run from the mid to upper 40 grains and velocities are 3200 to 3400 fps, consistently 150 to 250 fps faster than a 6mm Creedmoor. I personally shot two of these rifles, both with a 1:8 twist. The 243 AI was getting 3300-3350 fps with a 105 Amax in a 24 or 25 inch barrel with no brake, using R22. The 6mm AM was shooting a 100 Badlands Bulldozer (copper bullet) and R23 at 3450 fps out of a 22 inch barrel. These loads were near max, but didn't show pressure signs either. A 6mm Creedmoor would be hard pressed to break 3150 using the most common H4350 with either of these bullets; those powders used in the 243 Improved cases are too slow for a 6mm Creedmoor case. I currently shoot a 107 Sierra Match and a 108 Berger VLD Hunting at about 3025-3050 in my 6mm Creedmoor using H4350 and Peterson Brass. The brass lasts a long time and there is no pressure. I am going to try some StaBall 6.5 with a 115 Berger as it should get me just over 3000 fps instead of the 2900 I currently get with H4350 and StaBall is very easy to measure and load. I really have been impressed with this newer powder. The only reason I would recommend a 243 AI, 6 Comp or 6 AM is one of these three reasons: First, if the shooter is also a hunter who reloads and is wanting to use a 85, 90 or 100 gr monolithic type bullet for deer, antelope or sheep type hunting, to minimize recoil even in a light weight mountain rifle. That 100 gr Badlands Bulldozer has a BC of 0.590 and with velocities over 3250 fps, it is a formable round, both up close and at long ranges. The 2nd reason is for extreme varmint hunting, using like a 105 to 108 target tipped or hollow point. The third reason is for shooting a 108-115 grain high BC target bullet with a faster twist rate 1:7 to 1:7.7 for long range target shooting with minimal recoil. I know a couple people shooting a 6mm-06 and 6mm-284s in long actions and they get even better performance, but these are barrel burners and not as efficient as the shorter 243 case. Personally, I had my 6mm Creed built before I knew a lot about 6mm cartridges and would probably choose another case, especially since I mostly reload. Currently, about the only factory loads I can find for a 6mm Creedmoor are 103 Eld-X and 108 Eld-M from Hornady. For optimal barrel life, one of the 6BR family cases: 6BR, 6BRA, 6BRX or 6 Dasher are going to give the best barrel life, are probably more accurate and are more forgiving. Feeding is not ideal in these small BR cases unless using a modified magazine. I might go with the 6GT now, as it is a happy medium between a 6 Creed and the 6BR/Dasher group and seems to feed almost as good as a 6mm Creed. Barrel life would be better than the Creed but less than the BR/Dasher; there is factory brass for all of these cartridges (Alpha makes it for all of them) and the velocities are not far behind a 6mm Creed, while using quite a bit less powder. The 6XC is the closest to the 6mm Creed but I have no experience with it and don't think it is as ideal for PRS and it has less factory offerings than a 6mm Creed. For shooting PRS type matches, the 6mm Creed is not as forgiving as the 6 BR/Dasher or GT, especially on hot days and barrel life is much fewer rounds. Another advantage of a 243 improved variants is that hunters/shooters can find a variety of good 243 factory ammo they can shoot/practice with and then reload later, especially varmint loads in the 70 to 95 grain range. Generally, it is better to shoot new 243 Brass reloads with less than maximum powder charges and bullets seated into the lands, when making 243 improved cases, but I have not seen any case issues, when shooting 243 factory loads, even though the bullets are far from the lands and cases might not stretch as uniformly. For pure reloaders, there are many 243 cases options available, from inexpensive brands (Hornady, Remington, Winchester) to more expensive brands (Lapua, Peterson, Norma). The 6mm line of cartridges are super accurate, light recoiling and super fun to shoot. I hope the info I provided gave some additional first hand insight into the 6mm Creedmoor vs 243 Improved options. Thanks again for the knowledge and hard work you both put into your videos. Bryan

Really like your channel Mark and Sam. Great topic on this one, I'm going to keep my 243 and keep practicing....it the shooter :-)

another great "campfire" comparison! thank you!

Mark you did a outstanding job presenting your take on these 3 different 6 MM rounds. Ive had a Remington 770 in 243 Winchester for about 10 years. I am of the mind set of if it isn’t broken don't fix it. being a target shooter and over the years I’ve used factory and handloads with various bullets weights, I’ve really enjoyed this combination. All of these new and Modern 6MM’s Creedmoor, 6MM ARC, 6GT, May have their place, just not in my inventory.The next rifle i buy will be a Remington 700 chambered in 243 Winchester with a 26 inch barrel. The 243 Winchester and i have the same birth year 1955.

Great video Mark , very well explained , i hand load for my 243w , 87g vmax and perfect for hunting.

Thanks for your honesty and that was a very practical video all the best to ye.

Great info and explanation, thanks for sharing :)

Another great video Mark! Thanks for all the good info!

Appreciate it... good common sense practical information as always!

Great video and info mark can't wait to see your videos and the performance of the 243ai

Once again, GREAT video !

Very informative as usally👍 Since it's so popular "these days" with reacting videos, I think it would bee so funny and interesting to see you react to some sniper movies! In the movie: this guy puts down this impossible shot when hitting a fotball field at 1800m just because there was No wind at all! - Mark: well... I was out the other day in a sandstorm and hit a golfball 3 times, at 7346m... 😂👍

Exactly the information I was looking for and the decision between the .243 and the 6mm just keeps getting tougher. Thanks for nuth'n ! 😉

Very interesting discussion - thank you!

Very good break down mate Thanks

The only mistake made when they saami specced the .243 win was specifying a 10 twist barrel. That slow twist left the door open for the creed. Then again no one was really shooting heavy for caliber bullets back then. :)

Another interesting solution would be a 243 with cases made from .308 Palma brass (small rifle priming). With the small primers it is possible to use higher loads. Neck turning in .308 before resizing into .243 to move the turned part just under neck-shoulder junction. It would make it more consistent and also avoid doughnuts.

I have shot the 243 for the last 20 years mainly vermin and deer with 89 g vmax hor. Love it.

My old howa 1500 243 had a twin load. 100gr for steel at range and 58gr Vmax for small aussie game at 3900fps flat and terminal for anthing in the path.

very well said Mark!

Been thinking about a 6 creed for a while now simply because its still on the shelf.....

Thanks so much for your much needed common sense analysis and description of these cartridges . The 243 with a 1 in 9 .25 twist will accommodate 90 % of shooters and hunters using from 55 gr to 100 gr bullets . Dedicated target shooters building a new rifle would probably want to build a creedmore . Thanks Mark and my regards to Sam !…….

I really Loved the video and you can take me out to lunch with any calibre, Mark & Sam awesome ❤️

Love my Ruger Precision rifle in 243 Winchester. Picked up a lot of brass cheap.

Hi Mark. I absolutely agree with the marketing hype!! Hornady has really marketed the “CREEDS” to the ^10 Nice to hear that you have went 3k rnds, and report that it’s not a “barrel burner” as everyone suggests.... Like everything, you punish things, they’ll wear out fast. You maintain your things, they’ll take care of YOU. Hey, you also mentioned the .243’s are easy to find on the shelves today.... in the states, EVERYTHING is gone as soon as it hits the shelves...... sad times rt now...... thx for the video

I really like this guy!! Common sense and really gets down to the meat and potatoes

Great video thanks!

Well done. Thank you.

Great comparación greetings from Mexico

Great video. Glad I found you mate.

Interesting info. My 243 has a 1:8 twist, but the barrel is only 20", so I've got some leftover fire when the bullet comes out. Fantastically loud with the wrong muzzle break! LOL.

Great thanks.

I live (and shoot ELR) in the middle of Europe, but temporarily in Australia (central NSW) for family reasons. Nice to hear your view on things whilst local!! In my younger days I did a LOT of .243 and still have some in the safe. I'd never really consider the 6mm CM since it's just not worth it over the .243 although the AI tempted me a few times. My current decision is about re-barrelling my well-shot .22/250 in 22 CM.

I am so glad you said that. They are all as accurate as the next one. For a great coyote calling round, that 243 with a 75-85 grain bullet is tough to beat. It is as flat as you need a varmint round to be. That would be to 300-400 yards, After I watch my friend who is a gunsmith make his own .260 AI, that is very interesting. He usually has one .260 and one ,260 AI always ready to compete in the long range shooting matches he gets into.

I wanted to try out 6mm Creedmoor on the cheap so I bought an RPR 26". With Prime 107gr, it's performing better than I expected. 3014 fps and less than 1/2 MOA.

I like your channel. One of the things I like about your builds is you like longer barrels. I do too. I have found through my humble experiences that I would rather have a slightly longer barrel to get every once of performance out of the cartridge than have one too short. Most of my rifles are 26" to 30". I have a custom 6.5mmx55 Swede that has a 30" barrel that shoots like many .260 or 6.5 Creed. People are astounded at the velocity I can get out of that 30" barrel. Don't get me wrong, I won't be toting a 30 inch barrel through the brush. I rarely hunt anymore. I am almost strictly a target shooter only. Please keep up the great work you do. My philosophy on barrel length is why build a big fire when building a rifle, then pour water on that fire with too short of a barrel. I wrote a couple of the rifle makers, like Winchester and Savage and told them, very diplomatically what I thought of them building 22-250 and 25-06 rifles with 22 inch barrels. I never heard back from them, so it probably went over like a fart in church. A lot of unburned powder in those calibers with 22 inches.

Hi Mark. I've just had a 6XC built by LRP on a T3X action im still testing. With the 109 berger & Reloader 17 im @ 3070 fps Its not as talked about as much as other .243 cartridges, but is a lot more pleasant to shoot un braked !

The 6mm Creedmoor will be my next F-Class calibre. For two main reasons. First is that It has a longer case neck than the .243 and 243AI version which is very important for consistent long range accuracy as it keeps the base of the 105 to 107gn bullet shank above the donut area of the case in a properly throated match chamber. While still giving the bullet plenty of neck support. This gives more consistent bullet release. Second, cases can be obtained to take small rifle primers. This permits longer case life when run at similar chamber pressure. I shoot high pressure loads in a 6mm Dasher at the mid range distances and the case life that the small flash hole provides is outstanding. The 6mm Creedmoor should permit me to use the 105's out a bit further than the Dasher and take some of the load off my .284 Winchester at the longer distances when the conditions suit.

That was a fair and accurate account of those rounds. But I expect accuracy from you Mark 👍

Mark, great analysis as always. Been hunting with my .243win for a couple decades now, I've recently starting looking at working on building my skills/gun to "stretch its legs". As you perfectly described me and my gun (from an "off-the-shelf" gun/shooter/hunter), it sounds like I should start looking at a slightly longer barrel and faster twist. I'm curious, are you folks in the southern hemisphere feeling any impacts from the ammo/reloading supplies drought that we are experiencing in the states? Keep up the great work, and pass Sam a howdy-ma'am for us...

Hi Mark, I do agree that you need some more time with the 243 AI. I shoot the 6 Creed and I do not agree in the way you rank these. Anyway, I enjoy your videos since your testing provides good data points to work from. In South Africa our laws are a bit prohibitive so making the right choice the first time saves a lot of time 👍🏻 I am looking forward to your 2021 testing. All the best for the new year!

Yes. Bullet technology has advanced way more than cartridge brass. The longer heavier bullets necessitate changes in the barrel and the chambering in terms of needing more twist and longer throat and I suppose also more magazine clearance. So I find it annoying that SAAMI has not responded to this change by developing modified standards for certain existing cartridges with faster twist and in some cases longer leade. They could denote these modified standards as LR versions of the existing cartridges and the mfrs could chamber rifles accordingly and we could get modern bullet performance with existing brass. Instead the industry has just created a handful of new cartridges with limited availability. Browning however, has recently chosen to offer a factory fast twist version of 270WIN in their Xbolt and their standard magazine has heaps of clearance. Bravo Browning. Cheers!

Love Your vids , thanks . I keep dreaming of a new type of 6mm ELR cartridge in the 140 -170 grain bullet weight class . Not sure how to get started with prototyping .

The 243W at around 3000 f/s must be a contender to be the "all rounder'' in Australia. i.e. based on using the ethical range of 300m. Covers 90% of Au game and ferals, low recoil compact rifles and readily available ammo. Great article as usual. Cheers

I'm glad to hear a more realistic review instead of "creedmoor automatically equals snider!"

There's no fly's on a standard 243, my rem 700 with a 26" Maddco and 47gr of RE22 spits out 100gr projectiles at 3100fps. Next i'll go a 6mm rem AI for a step up

I would like to see them with the same grain bullet, same barrel length and twist to get a real comparison. I like this video, lots of information

I prefer tried and proven for 60 years .243 Winchester, I just don't fall for marketing Jibberish, My choice Great 👍video, thanks

Very nice presentation! I shoot the .243AI and a 6mmXC. A range buddy shoots the 6CM. At 1025yds, we can't tell the difference between the three. He shoots Berger bullets, I shoot the 105 Nosler Custom Competition in both. I realize that this is only standard LR, but we are limited to the range we shoot on. Thanks for your personal experience!

Hey thanks for the vid, have been shooting an 8trwist Madco 243 with 108g Elds for a good few years now and it’s still my favourite rifle, Not sure if you can tell me but do you know of a smith in Perth that has a 6.5 PRC reamer?

then there’s the 6mm rem. perhaps falls somewhere between the 243 win and the ackly .. good stuff mate 👍

I have a 243w but its a light barrel and set up for hunting. I want a 1000 yard target gun next so thinking about 6 or 6.5cm with a heavy 26” barrel 1/8 twist. Similar cartridges yes, but bc and twist makes it a different animal. Thanks for the info. Im leaning toward 6mm now but need to check availability of ammo and gear too.

Love my .243 Win...! Savage LH action, MDT chassis & stock, 22" Bob Jury 1:8" SS varmint barrel Have you tried the 110gr A-TIP® Match ? ---> .604 (G1) / .304 (G7) , but damn they're spendy.... 💲💲💲

Its interesting to see what is considered common depending on where your at. In the US at least where i'm at, 100 grain 243 is the most common. I rarely see less than 95 grain.

Savage axis 2 xp 243 Winchester , 80 grains gmx @ 3200fps. +1.4 inches at 100 yards for a 200 yards zero. My hunting rifle for 2022

Thx for the valuable info. I love my 243 win and reload my own ammo. My question is if you willing to share your best load info for the 95 grain and what velocity are you getting out your barrel. Thx Costa

Thank you for your input and suggestions. I've been on the fence about a 6 Creed vs the .243 but if anything I think I'd likely go with the AI since .243 brass can be easily fire formed which makes acquiring cases almost a non-issue. Now to find me a good used reciever/barrel and install a 28" 1 in 8 barrel and it should do everything I need/want it to do on paper, steel and prairie dogs eradication. Keep up the good work and excellent videos.

Really enjoy the show. Feet must be feeling better :) Do you know of the 6mm Competition Match? I got one in a 7.5 twist...can not get it above 3100 fps in a 24” barrel with a 105 berger. I use H1000 and R22. suggestions?

I didn't really have time to watch this video today. Even tho it's raining and I've been inside I have a lot to do before my 1 year old wakes up. So I am gonna leave a comment and let this video play while I make lunch to help your channel numbers.

So are you having to go over to a slower burning powder with the 1in8 and 27” barrel? Viht N500 range of powders works well, I find. Cheers

I have my late fathers vintage FN bench rifle in .243, however the barrel is done and I’m going to have it rebarrelled. I do a lot of varminting so my question is this. With a 1-8 twist rate how light can I go? Currently the rifle is 1-10 and it performed very well with 65-95 grains. (Well under .5 moa) the heavier bullets sound fun but I don’t want to lose the capacity to do pest control with lighter projectiles. In your experience does a 1-8 twist accommodate lighter bullets, say 65-75 gr.?

Your 10 cents is worth 1200 to 3500 yards, thanks for your time

The thing everyone needs to remember is that ballistics or rather physics doesn’t change. All these different rounds are just trying to get people to buy another firearm and more ammo. I have one rifle for close shots and a large caliber for longer shots. One of the largest deer I’ve ever shot was with a .243 at 20 yards and dropped him in his tracks.

Im using Winchester super x 100grain 243 at the moment because thats what i got with the rifle. Haven't tried anything else yet

Man I miss my Tikka M55 that I sold a few years ago . That Tikka shot .5 Moa @ 200 Yards with 4 different brands of premium factory 100 grain bullets . I never got around to Reloading for it but wish I did to see what it was capable of . David if you’re reading this I want my rifle back 😥.

Notified!

The 6 creed is designed around modern bullets. Try seating long high BC bullets like the 115 gr DTACs in a standard .243 win, and likely it will exceed the 2.800” COAL for standard AR10/AICS mags. .243 win was designed with antiquated barrel twists.

There very best deer hunter I have every known uses a factory rifle in 243 Winchester. The Savage 112J in that caliber is by far the most accurate firearm I have ever owned.

.243 has stood the test of time. Anything from Hornady 58 grain varmint loads at a screaming 3900 fps to 90 and 100 grain deer loads. Trendy 6mm cartriges came and went, but the .243 is as popular as ever. $1.30 to $1.75 per round is a bonus compared to some other calibers.

Damn... I was in a process to convince myself to not buy a 243 until now!

Interesting, 100 grain bullets are very very common in the states. People use then for white tails.

I have my eye out for a 6mm creedmoor. I like to push the heavier bullets and don’t handload or build custom rifles, so the 243 just doesn’t cut it. Thanks!

Looking at a tikka tx3 243 for my first rifle as a friend doesn't use his and getting it for next to nothing . Thanks for the information. As a new shooter ( have shot some 308s) who's hunting fallow, roos and foxes up to 300m do I need to worry about twist rates. I see some are factory twists and others have them done after purchase

if starting new cost of factory ammo and rifles, let alone availability a big thing and difference, custom rifles for exotic calibres over 243. an 8 243 would be great cost of reloading brass also

New to long range shooting. My furthest shot is 900 yds. Excuse my ignorance but taking shots well over 1 mile how do you adjust your firing solution for coriolis effect and curve of the earth?

6 mm prc sounds nice ...

Question, how much energy does a .223 80g Amax horandy bullet have at 300yds? Me and friend where wondering. We where debating what would be best all round hunting rifle. I said it would be a remington 700 223 with a 1in7 twist barrel, like 22 inch barrel .750 at crown.

Im working on winning gold lotto so I can start my king of 2 mile aussie invasion 👍👍👍 one can wish lol

I know this is a year late but would a ruger american peditor 6mm creed be a good starter for a first time long range shooter or is there a more price affordable rifle out there?

A good video but why change if you have a good 243. The Creedmoor is a marketing exercise .I have a 6mm Remington and it beats the .243 and the Creedmoor or at least equals it. I reload which is why I have the 6mm Remington ( the previous owner was having problems selling it so I got it at a cheap price ). Both the .243 and 6mm Remington are very good all round cartridges and no animal knows the difference when shot. The Barnes TTSX has been a terrific projectile in my rifle.

If all the MFGs would just put a 1 in 8 twist barrel in their .243 rifles, it would be awesome. Shoot heavier bullets which are more accurate.

Hello what is the best for longrange shooting and good for closeley big but just under 300 win mag

Right now(fall 2021) ,the main difference between the two is that a 243Win case can be made using 308 Win cases with a cheap Lee 260Win Collet die and a 243 Win die. The 6mm C will take a 308 Win case and $300/$400 (six months wait if you can get them) in forming dies. What come out the end of the barrel will be the same.

Marketing is what it's all about, separating people from their money.