3/27/24 Cannon Fodder

Рет қаралды 5,503

2 ай бұрын

Troy and Joe put some finishing touches on the flat check conversation from last week before getting into this week's episode of the GCP! Joe tries to explain what the hell he was thinking in pushing the party to check just one more room, and Troy gets into some deep detail on how Hazards in PF2E are a different beast to manage. In We Are Stupid, a final chapter in the Recall Knowledge saga and Professor Eric's thoughts on our hybrid remaster gameplay. In Listener Mail, what do when your party walks right by the item that ties the whole adventure together, and isn't it about time we did longer episodes?
Submit your questions for Listener Mail at forms.gle/v5huj25dkVSmkbLEA
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Cast: Troy Lavallee, Joe O'Brien
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Пікірлер: 120

@matthewburdick6177 2 ай бұрын

One hour episodes are definitely too short. Put my vote in for 1.5-2 hours.

@gedriverstone1331 2 ай бұрын

I second that. I understand why some people might prefer 1 hour episodes, listening whilst commuting or whatever, but it's simple; listen to half the episode, then the other half later. I always find the 1 hour ep jawn too short. It's not about 'value for money' or anything like that, it's simply for pacing and satisfaction. I find myself often slightly frustrated with Legacy or BOTW EPs compared to say TFC, DG or Blades, not because I enjoy them any less, but simply because I feel like we get an entree, but not the main meal. So often we just get into an interesting combat or situation and it's wrap up time. It's somewhat dissatisfying. Like Troy said it's a balance between leaving the listener's wanting more, or feeling like there simply wasn't enough meat on the bone in the first place. 1.5 to 2+ hours just feels more immersive and satisfying to me somehow. It's different when you can binge listen to a backlog of EPs for a show you haven't caught up with (or on a re listen through, but when you're up to date and hanging out for that weekly drop, sometimes an hour with bant simply isn't enough. Anyway, that just my 2 cents worth. It's not a complaint. It's just my personal subjective opinion. If anything, it's because of the quality of these shows that I am often (perhaps greedily) left wanting more.

@threetythreepercent 2 ай бұрын

As long as there’s AT LEAST an hour of gameplay I’m pretty happy. There’s always a lot of banter at the beginning which eats into the game, so a 60 minute episode would end up being around 40 minutes of story/gameplay. 90 minutes allows for the opening banter to settle and not feel like quite such a huge percentage of the episode.

@upsidely 2 ай бұрын

An hour of gameplay is good, as long as there is not a bunch of bookkeeping and deliberation for half hour.@@threetythreepercent

@joecurran910 2 ай бұрын

I'm not sure i have an ideal EPISODE length. But PLAY length is at least 1.5-2 hours. But when the bant (which is fun and I love it) takes up 1/4 to 1/2 of the episode...that's when i start getting 1% annoyed. But I watch Critical Role so i'm used to 4-5 hours episodes. So my sense of what is a good ep length is fully out of whack. To be clear: these are preferences. These folks put out a good show every week. several, actually. and they put it out FOR FREE on youtube. *shrug* you give me what you want to give and i'll take it.

@analog_caveman 2 ай бұрын

What got me into the GCP is the one hour episodes. I just think it leads to much better paced shows than 2 hours shows.

@JawaMech 2 ай бұрын

I really appreciate the banter. It helps the audience feel like they are getting to know the players.

@missellaneous5142 2 ай бұрын

90 minutes is my sweet spot for episode length, I feel like I get a good chunk of banter (because I love watching this group of friends joking around together) and then a good chunk of show, all without feeling like my entire evening has been monopolized (and risk falling waaay too far behind if I miss a week)! I love the Gatewalkers show, I'll be happy with whatever I can get :D I just hope that you guys think that you're getting through the adventure fast enough. I would be sad if you lost excitement because you feel like it's taking a while.

@mr.e.knight8307 2 ай бұрын

I love Troy's comment about GCN not being an actual play with a bunch of theatre kids. Who would even watch that? 😆🤣

@CarlosGFlores 2 ай бұрын

Mathiew

@trancebodega2739 2 ай бұрын

take a look at the world of RPG media

@mr.e.knight8307 2 ай бұрын

@@trancebodega2739 Indeed. It was intended as a sarcastic comment.

@pthepersistent7369 2 ай бұрын

I enjoy both tbh, 2 different flavors of the same food yknow?

@mr.e.knight8307 2 ай бұрын

@@pthepersistent7369 I do favor the fact that GCN seems more like "real people" playing. They do a great job of addressing the GM-ing and roleplaying aspects that more...theatrical productions...do not address.

@BCSully83 2 ай бұрын

Great fod. Even liked Troy's answer on the flat-check incident. I was firmly on the other side, and when he finished I was like "yeah. Makes sense".

@ScottB1775 2 ай бұрын

When I first started watching Glass Cannon, I was irritated sometimes by how much banter there was. Even though I enjoyed it, my main focus was on the episode. But now I feel that the banter is just another component of the episode and look forward to it just as much as the actual playing of the game. I definitely feel that banter is part of the identity of Glass Cannon

@michaelburchett5733 2 ай бұрын

I drink about as much coffee as Troy. Once, I gave up coffee for Lent. My secretary told me "You are are never ****ing allowed to do that again."

@dinkkdinkk 2 ай бұрын

I’m with you guys on the timing, there are a lot of actual plays that i don’t or can’t watch because the eps are SO LONG. 60-90 is perfect, and keeps me excited for next week.

@steved4088 2 ай бұрын

Troy is like Walter Sobchak... from the Big Lebowski... he's not wrong, he's just an asshole about being right.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

Perfect analogy. Plus, of course, he likes the drama that generates because of how it improves the episodes.

@andrewmaher9439 2 ай бұрын

OVER THE LINE!

@kwagmeijer26 2 ай бұрын

The thing I like about the flat check ruling, is now the players will never forget.

@Hydromantic 2 ай бұрын

Man. I've been following you guys for a little while now. Gatewalkers consistently. I really like how you pace the shows, it's an excellent balance of mates in a room having a laugh along with an adventure that ends at an appropriate moment. The timing is always on point. 60mins, 90mins meh! who cares. Just make what you want to make and have it feel right. I really enjoy watching you guys, especially your disagreements. It's real. It's what happens. More power to you :)

@TheGlassCannon 2 ай бұрын

Awesome, thank you!

@mzc_crazy3769 2 ай бұрын

I would listen to 2.5 hours of just banter, and i dont think im alone in this. Banter=best content hands down.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

It varies, but I agree that banter is the most consistently enjoyable part of each episode, mainly because it’s hard to plan for perfect content each episode in a story that evolves organically.

@clintono 2 ай бұрын

Larian Studios have said that the reason for switching from BG3 DLC to a new project had nothing to do with WotC - who had provided all the support they could hope for - but to regain the excitement of a new project.

@mildsoup8978 2 ай бұрын

I like Troy's timing on the episodes, it feels like they end at the right time.

@missellaneous5142 2 ай бұрын

Agreed, plus Troy is the cliffy King

@danielslack4078 2 ай бұрын

Joe is correct. You have to secure your rest position. It was Sydney who took it to the next level by exploring further instead of taking a peek into the next room. Lol.

@trancebodega2739 2 ай бұрын

"kumbayah theatre kid energy" troy nailed it, and solidified my confidence in GCN to stay true to what makes them different

@vwkflynn 2 ай бұрын

I love the treasure system in The One Ring. It's so simple and streamlined, and it lets you dole out items in a fun way. Straightforward loot mechanics like that are the way of the future. I love running that game. I really hope one day you guys can find time to do even a short run of it!

@gavinwest7417 2 ай бұрын

I appreciate that you guys let the episode breathe and stop where feels good for the story. With some other podcasts I can feel them watching the clock and stopping exactly at 1 HR. It just feels like they don’t enjoy playing and only want to do it as little as they have to. Your approach feels much more organic.

@ZebMeierWatz 2 ай бұрын

Was Joe wearing the bird shirt? Should have showed it more

@lllorez 2 ай бұрын

Any chance we get more Jared Logan then we are now?

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

Seconded. Love me some Jared.

@lllorez 2 ай бұрын

@@jamesthelimey1738Def want to see him DMing some more darker games like he did on his SOB channel.

@russellcharlton7814 2 ай бұрын

Seeing as SOB no longer transmits this is a must. Jared needs an ongoing show slot. With Ross, Joe and Abu. Hopefully Ashley. Yeah I said it.

@thorinbane 2 ай бұрын

Lol didn't you see that Patreon(or whatev now) hook dangling right there. He is running games, you just have to help pay the freight.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

@@thorinbane Oh, I’m loving Blood of the Wild… I just miss Haunted City…

@SrTNick1 2 ай бұрын

I'm a fan of the hour and thirteen minutes jawn. It's a good number. Respectable. I binge most of the series while at work anyways though so it doesn't bother me much. I just switch to a different GCP show or start at the beginning when I get caught up and need something to listen to.

@TheLibGamer 2 ай бұрын

The only thing I question about the DM question in regards to the treasure conversation is... Joe mentions not changing a +1 striking short sword to a +1 striking hammer. In Pf2e the runes are transferable, so even if you leave it as something more generic/what the AP suggests the party can get the runes transferred (or transfer them themselves) to the weapon that is optimal for the right party member. So other then the time and possible cost what is the problem with changing the treasure for the party?

@korylytle9045 2 ай бұрын

I think a 90‐120 minute ep is really what I prefer. I hate when there's only 50 minutes of actual gameplay in an hour and 10 minute ep, as much as I LOVE banter. But I gag thinking about the episode length of CERTAIN actual plays, so anything over two hours should be a different show, imo. I think Troy's timing is good on endings in general though

@lordoblivion812 2 ай бұрын

I would love longer episodes

@gantzywo 2 ай бұрын

Give me more Gameplay and role-playing. Its what I come for when i watch a ttrpg pod. The banter is good but man I do not want the time for the game to be shoter cause you chat for like 30 mins. Time for chaos does it best and honestly is my favorite show on the network. No other show besides Giantslayer compares IMO

@russellcharlton7814 2 ай бұрын

Yes correct. Bant good. Longer game time gooder. Bant longer = less game time NO!

@matthew_thefallen Ай бұрын

The banters are my favourite thing about you guys! I love watching your games with a little bit of banter before playing, it feels real, like we do with my play group!

@TheGlassCannon Ай бұрын

Glad to hear it!

@Ren_Brands 2 ай бұрын

Great episode, my opinion on episode length is the longer the better but i'm happy with whatever your decision on it is because i still enjoy the shorter episodes.

@lorenzovaletti4951 2 ай бұрын

After listening to Troy's explanation re:flat check kerfuffle, I have to say he makes very good points. My perception might be skewed for being primarily a GM, though.

@kittykabootsin833 2 ай бұрын

I guess you can't be too upset that your fans want more of you. 😊 I love the bant and am fine with the episode length. I gave up on CR due to the 5 hour length. Dimension 20 is longer,, anywhere from 2 to 3 hours, but its also more heavily produced and edited, so there isn't usually an episode where not much or too much happens. Glass Cannon is different from those two offerings. It has a more organic "at the home table" feel, with professional audio and visuals. Would i say no to a 90 min ep? 30 for bant, recap, and house cleaning and 60 for play? No, id be excited. But I usually feel pretty satisfied by the end of each. Its not the GCPs fault that i am the type of person that wants to know the whole story immediately, that i read summaries ans synopsis before watching any movie or tv show 😅

@thorinbane 2 ай бұрын

I listen at work so I like longer EPs. And because when we play it's 6- 8 hour sessions. So if someone said I can only make it for 50 minutes I wouldn't bother having them come over. But I do understand how it works as a show. But a 90 minute with bant is a nice compromise. Basically where there is a natural break point.

@jchambers1191 2 ай бұрын

Love you guys - thanks for all you do!!!

@Scales3040 2 ай бұрын

Here's a strategy for dealing with failed knowledge checks: Have the player ask their question and give yourself a moment to think about how you might lie BEFORE you roll. That way even if you're the type who's really obvious that you're making something up it still won't tip the players off to whether or not you gave them that lie.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

Come on Austin! Let’s sell this show OUT! 😆

@donkeyboom6047 2 ай бұрын

Hell yeah! VIP Ticket secured!

@CarlosRodriguez-dd4sb 2 ай бұрын

On the last session - there is no victory sweeter than one taken from the jaws of defeat

@JosephEMercado 2 ай бұрын

2-hour episode length minimum for me

@investigatingdwarf 2 ай бұрын

The only issues you'll run into with remaster is if a creature or item references things that kinda don't exist anymore like alignment or spell schools.

@raistca 2 ай бұрын

I love the banter and consider it a core component of the show, and one of the main reasons I listen/watch. However, when the gameplay itself is shorter than 60 minutes, the continuity of the story gets broken up into such small pieces it is much harder to follow along and stay engaged. I really agree with what I think Troy said toward then end, where you check the clock, bant was 10 minutes, ok let's aim for a 70 minute episode. That way each episode is roughly bant + 60 (obviously with some wiggle room on either side for a good stopping point).

@joshmckenna6576 2 ай бұрын

If you write a script and none of the actors are sent it, it is unfair to be upset when you they get the lines wrong. If players didn't do what you thought they would, same. Talking to your players and facilitating a good time is paramount.

@jjbudinski8486 2 ай бұрын

It seems like the shows start short but creep into longer times as the season goes on because things start rolling, bant gets looser, characters are fleshed out so RP flows a bit better, etc. I listen passively, either while driving or periods at work, so I listen in those sized-chunks so Ep length doesn't matter to me that much. The timing of the cliffie that has got to be tricky sometimes and probably is what extends most episodes.

@murmillo42 2 ай бұрын

The hour-long episodes are one of the major reasons I like GCN more than say Critical Role. The length is perfect for me and my busy schedule, especially during my gym times.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

THIS. I’ve commented before that I think one of Troy’s goals is to differentiate the GCN from Critical Role, because CR has already established themselves as the top dog for what they do. A friend recommended both the GCP and Critical Role many years ago and I quickly gave up on Critical Role mainly because of episode length. The content has to be digestible, especially considering the quantity of content the GCN produces.

@murmillo42 2 ай бұрын

@@jamesthelimey1738 that's also another reason that they play other RPGs. New Game Who Dis? was amazing to watch. It helped me buy new RPGs.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

@@murmillo42Yup. More variety should also provide more “entry points” for viewers. Come for the CoC… stay for the BitD, and get hooked on all their other shows.

@dmeep 2 ай бұрын

imagine how jacked you would be if you worked out to entire CR episodes ;)

@murmillo42 2 ай бұрын

@@dmeep not very your body won't have time to rest.

@thehermitthetower1126 2 ай бұрын

2+ hour episodes! You cant get shit done in an rpg in 1 hr. The episides would be 20-30% banter, book keeping, discussion, talk to one guy, end.

@Melodromedary 2 ай бұрын

@playlistb3795 2 ай бұрын

Working in construction on mandatory 60hr weeks, I fill up 2 thermos and full send for the day. I feel seen Troy!

@ZeroScore 2 ай бұрын

Dang...now I feel even worse for not being able to go to Kansas City. You come two hours away from me and I can't fit it in :(

@brandonpond 2 ай бұрын

I'm 100% with Troy on the coffee intake. I'm pretty sure I'm more addicted to the dopamine my ADHD brain releases than the caffine. I should probably drink less... but I don't want to.

@noahjaybee 2 ай бұрын

If something is good, you shouldn't be looking at the time stamp and thinking it's too long. I expect actual play to be about an hour and a half, up to 2 hours for special circumstances like a finale needing to be longer to finish up

@morrischan932 2 ай бұрын

1.5 to 2 hrs is plenty good. we have other shows and activities to do

@shadows96100 2 ай бұрын

I really like 1-1.5hrs because I just don't have time to be dedicated to a 2+ hours show. The fact this show is in much more digestible portions is a really big upside for me.

@kcchad 2 ай бұрын

I think pathfinder isn't really conducive to shorter episodes. Combat especially gets so muddled down. I find myself wanting more especially on episodes that are mostly just a combat.

@jt-hs9gj 2 ай бұрын

I don't remember if Troy ever said, but what was in the middle buildings?

@donc7664 2 ай бұрын

Kc not half sold? Remember that time we begged you guys to come to St.Louis and it sold out...TWICE for the same show? Just sayin

@Aerakade 2 ай бұрын

I think the show is hitting the sweet spot for length.

@Giozize 2 ай бұрын

Anywhere between 1-2 hours for me, probably on the lower end, like 60-90 minutes, it works great for me And adding to that, love bant. Don’t care if it’s 30 mins bant 30 mins game. Way I see it, bant is important and even an integral part of the show

@FleshyInterloper 2 ай бұрын

Ah, the famous One Idiot problem.

@AJBernard 2 ай бұрын

I'm kinda with Troy on the episode length thing... I don't watch Critical Role because I can't sit down and commit to a 4 hour episode every week, but I can listen to a 1 hour podcast or KZfaq vid and feel like I didn't waste the whole day. I certainly don't mind the 90 minute eps, but yeah... too long is too long. But who am I kidding? I'd watch you guys no matter how long the episodes were! You're WAY better than Critical Role!! (Don't tell Matt, we still love him, but Troy and Joe are absolutely amazing GMs!)

@Baraz_Red 2 ай бұрын

There was no official falling out between Larian and WotC, but... Hasbro did fire many WotC employees; having your own IP is safer (!) and allows more freedom; and Larian can keep more of the sales using their own IP.

@BCSully83 2 ай бұрын

I like the episode length. It fits my attention span. I also see the banter as part of the show. I'm actually more disappointed by sh*tty bant than a "meh" game-sesh. Love great bant!!

@ChipHardbody 2 ай бұрын

I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I love the episode length as-is. 20 minutes of bant, 40 minutes of gameplay, I'm a happy man. Keep making the show you want to make, and we'll all keep watching and listening!

@matt0611 2 ай бұрын

Something I was considering recently is that someone who consumes a lot of GCP content will get a lot of ‘bant’ outside of the episodes but someone who is only watching the flagship show (Tory refers to them when talking about how the network breaks news, some people aren’t following them on socials and just watch the show so he has to occasionally drop network info on the gate walkers show) might want longer to get a good amount of banter and still want more of the actual play. I’ve got other GCP content to catch up on so I’m happy with the length. As much as I love what he does, I do think we all suffer for Troy making the kind of content that he wants to see because he’s old school in his approach to media and strongly opinionated. I appreciate that this all must be terribly difficult to judge and has such a huge impact on the success of the network. Love to the naish! x

@underagreenstar 2 ай бұрын

Personally, I like the format a lot. I find most other liveplay shows to be impenetrable because they are so long and it's just random how much actual gameplay you get out of it.

@FleshyInterloper 2 ай бұрын

Keep it real 👍

@standingwavestudio 2 ай бұрын

More bird shirts! That is all. Almost. Recall knowledge. Take the shae. She was essentially a puzzle. Easy to take out once you figure out her ability. But if a successful knowledge roll just gives it to you it basically ruins the encounter. The characters should have to try things and figure it out.

@elmarkofler1486 2 ай бұрын

Well Lariam rarely makes addons and if they do you can expect an addon that others sell as a full price game. So bummed out that they will not. But reading some infos here in Europe it seems that they started with a great group of people on WotCs side that gave them a card carte blanche. Those people seem to be all/most of them gone. And the replacments seem to be more "how to squeeze the last cent out of the conent no matter how bad it is". Hence Lariam left as they dont want to ruin their good name. Good thinking I´d say.

@SamuRyan858 2 ай бұрын

45:35 *Fewer episodes, haha.

@angusmatheson8906 2 ай бұрын

Bhaals was the best expansion, speaking of BG 2. Bummed out there won't be lvl 20/epic levels at minimum for bg. BG2 felt bigger with allthe dlc.

@joecastle 2 ай бұрын

With the tight rules on treasure in PF2e how can they be overpowered? That goes against the PF2e "every +1 matters" design philosophy doesn't it?

@chrislaporte8390 2 ай бұрын

BG3 Act 3 is as big as Act 1 and 2 together.

@kaanguler8997 2 ай бұрын

On the discussion about leaving the flat check argument in. I, for one, love those moments being left in. Was it uncomfortable? Honestly, yeah. But it's important, in a world where sanitised 'theatre kid' actual plays (of which I also enjoy) dominate the space, that we have a show that presents what an actual TTRPG session is like, warts and all. More importantly, people need to see adults arguing, resolving said argument and moving on. Conflict resolution is a skill that is extremely lacking in the TTRPG space.

@dmeep 2 ай бұрын

We played the starter box under otari recently and one of my players first experience with the flat checks for concealment was 3 nat 20s on the check and missing the attacks. as far as episode length goes 1hr play min + bant is my preference.

@MonteGruhlke 2 ай бұрын

Could Brother Ramius first use a Medical Knowledge check to give him some kind of bonus to his Treat Wounds use? For the love of the Keeper, stop maiming characters.

@jrlonergan6773 2 ай бұрын

Yoooooo

@_claymore 2 ай бұрын

I would also prefer if episodes where *minimum* 1h30 of gameplay - which means if you include the banter the total ep. length would be somewhere around 1h45 to 2h. I wouldn't want you to cut the banter short to include more gameplay, because the intro banter is really fun and makes the GCN feel more like an actual group of friends play TTRPGs instead of theatre-kids doing an improv show. quickly checking C2 eps, it seems only 5 of the 28 videos in the playlist make it above that 1h45 sweet spot and one of those 5 is the session zero char-build ep. all other episodes run shorter - seems you mostly clock in around 1h30 which feels just a little short for my taste. though there's no sense in pushing the episodes to meet a runtime that you at the table don't feel comfortable with. there's no benefit for us viewers if the sessions last longer but the quality suffers because you don't feel it.

@upsidely 2 ай бұрын

The ep length complaint falls on deaf ears with them. It's clear most people want longer than 60 minutes but both Joe and Troy are like "Well, I like 60 minutes. It's the best way for me to consume content." I respect their choices, but it's frustrating as a viewer when an ep is 30 minutes banter, 10-20 minutes of bookkeeping/planning, and finally, 30 minutes of gameplay where they basically go up some stairs or open a door. It's also a little hypocritical when we see Troy regularly exceeds 2hr on Time for Chaos, a show that is easily one of if not the best show Troy's part of. It's a different beast to 2e, but I'd argue 2e needs MORE time than CoC due yo combat intricacies and more bookkeeping. I believe it's mostly due to him not really enjoying other systems the way he does CoC though - we all know he likes CoC.

@gantzywo 2 ай бұрын

Your speak the TRUTH, I really want to enjoy Gatewalkers but there is way too much banter than gamplay and role-playing. Just add like 30 mins or more cause they always always talk forever

@thehermitthetower1126 2 ай бұрын

Totally agree. 2.5 hr episode of TfC and GitT.

@TheMav80 2 ай бұрын

For a different perspective, I'm with them 100%. The banter and book keeping are part of the show, for me. It's what I signed up for! Like Troy said, I don't want to listen to a radio play. I want to listen to people on play Pathfinder (or whichever game they are playing).

@davidwido1135 2 ай бұрын

Maybe poll your Naish. Just because you like something doesn’t mean that others do.

@jamesthelimey1738 2 ай бұрын

They could, but it’s important that THEY like what they do. They got this far by doing their own thing… polling the Naish might work for some things, but I think they should only do it when they don’t already know what they want to do.

@InsomniacVampire97 2 ай бұрын

Hasbro is the problem, not WOTC

@newbiedebater 2 ай бұрын

@10:04 here, Troy is just flat wrong. He says "here is what I need you to do as this creature is made of Shadow they are concealed in dim light even to creatures that can see at those light levels so give me a flat check against concealed now that brother ramus has moved to the back of the room and is no longer providing light to this section" @ 31:15 in C2E26. At no point did you say "you have to roll the flat first". You simply didn't say one had to come first. It's quite literally in the transcript. It just is showing that just like Sydney, Troy doesn't listen to the podcast himself :P

@ferrous412 2 ай бұрын

I guess I will wait two or three shows, because I like longer shows and it just annoys me with these shorter shows.

@MonteGruhlke 2 ай бұрын

Also… 3 hours for a show. Francis needs job security, man! Seriously though, 30-60 minutes is great for scripted material, but unscripted role playing needs time to breathe. I appreciate the visits in the beginning, then when we get gaming… let’s do a 2-3 hour sesh.