Let me start off by saying that I am industry professional (Chartered Surveyor) who deals with renewables and am in the process of looking at which heat pump to install in my own home. I am a big fan of heat pump, solar PV & battery storage technology. However, I recently contacted Octopus (who I am also a fan of - their tariffs, at least) for a quote on a heat pump installation. Whilst the price was decent (I can get cheaper), I was concerned by the design specification. To get the MCS certification needed for the BUS scheme grant, the system has to be designed to a flow temperature of no more than 50 degrees C. But, and its a big but, a heat pump that has to run at 50 degrees will not be anywhere near as efficient as a system running at a cooler temperature, at least sub-45 degrees, ideally cooler. Why? The COP (coefficient of performance) drops from more than 430% at 45 degrees, to about 385% at 50 degrees. Why is that important? Because with electricity being just over 4x more expensive than gas, a heat pump system with a COP of less than 400% will cost the user MORE than a gas boiler. I did highlight this to the Octopus rep and she said that they 'couldn't' design to a lower flow temperature. Again why? Basically, to get the system to output the needed heat at a lower flow temperature you need bigger heat emitters (radiators) and Octopus don't want to upgrade any more of your system than they have to, understandably. But should the facts not be outlined to people who aren't as clued up as some of us, so they can make their own decision about long term costs? The issue I have is that interviews like this - where the Octopus rep clearly states that you will get a COP of over 400% - is simply not true with the way Octopus design the system. Yes, in warmer months you will get that level of performance, but in winter, when you really need it, people will be paying more to run the heat pump than a gas boiler. That will lead to a wave of more bad press about a really cool and worthwhile technology that can be what we want it to be IF the system is designed correctly! Octopus - please change your approach, despite seemingly good intentions you are misleading people. Everything Electric Show - please ensure you use your channel to educate people in an unbiased way with all the facts.

As an octopus customer, I really like what they’re doing, but my only criticism of this new heat pump is it looks like a recycling bin at a theme park LOL

"what more could you possibly want ?" A spec sheet ! Sound levels & Cop /Scop at these high temperatures. That said it good to see , & regarding looks ... Don't mind Normal Look or this ..

"all in one place in one app" isn't much of a benefit because it's always an attempt at vendor lock in. We need journalists to start asking about open data formats. Still I love these videos, thanks for making them.

Strangely devoid of facts. What will be the flow temperature for a 'high temperature' system? What is the noise output? Another vid, please, with less cosy PR, and more information. I thank you.

I have got to say firstly we are satisfied and enthusiastic Octopus Customers having been on their tariffs for a number of years. We are currently on Intelligent Go and have always found that the company respond well to questions and are open with information. But… I didn’t feel comfortable with this video it was far too woolly, no technical information, no Scop figures, no proper explanation as to why the pumps are working at such high temperature ( and if that has an effect on efficiency) how does it compare efficiency wise with existing heat pumps, why is the design so different, what advantages are there for placing the fan in a semi upright bucket etc. The lack of probing by the interviewer didn’t help either, this was a promo video without any serious scrutiny of what the Octopus lady was saying. Very disappointing both interviewer and interviewee. Juries out with this one, we will be in the market for a heat pump in due course but will need a lot of reassurance and evidence before we go down the Cosy route of whatever size.

i feel like this 'article' didn't answer anything

I prefer the traditional look of heat pumps. This looks like my kitchen bin and I’m concerned it would deteriorate out in the weather.

So we’ve spent two decades pulling out old boilers and immersion tanks in favour of efficient condensing combi boilers. Now we’re being told pull out the gas boiler for a heat pump, oh but you’ll need that tank back again.

Imogen misunderstood the point that they're specifically not talking about (as she said) "warm when they need to be warm" but instead as Effie said "heating the space when it is cheapest" which is often at 180 degrees to when you might actually want the heating. Eg loading up the temperature of the house overnight on cheap electricity, instead of leaving the house to cool overnight (which is usually much more comfortable for sleeping). There is an obvious high-demand period from 4-7pm when electricity prices spike, and so you'd do well to avoid using a heat pump then, still relatively expensive from 7-9pm. It will be interesting to see how this develops with an energy supplier controlling the heat pump; and whether you truly do end up with comfort when chasing low energy costs.

Great to see Octopus working on their own solutions, but the details were sorely lacking and felt like they were skirting around anything that might have made it seem less than ideal. Also found it slightly odd that they're testing it in 70s and 90s homes when the vast majority of UK housing stock is pre 1940s, and its those that nobody seems to be willing to test on, probably for a good reason.

When are we going to get grants for air to air?! Wet systems are ok but if you're going max efficiency why would you take heat from air to put into water to put back to air?! Air to air means you get get rid of radiators and have more freedom to arrange your room, means you get cooling in summer as climate warms right on the days when solar isnt a problem... Crazy that we're only supporting a2w in the uk

Lets hope the installer training is good, because looking at the skillbuilder/heatgeek videos it's clear that this is make or break for heat pump installs. I just hope the government understands that too; perhaps a percentage of available resource should go on training.

I am also a proud Octopus customer and would love to install a heat pump. But I think the average £500 installation cost quoted for a well insulated house might be a little astray? We live in a relatively new, highly insulated, detached house with underfloor heating throughout the ground floor, and radiators on first floor. We are rated A for EPC with a score of 96. Our heating is currently provided by an efficient, four year old gas boiler and hot water tank. So we are extremely suited for conversion, as no change to radiators or associated pipework would be needed. My quote for conversion from Octopus was £3,880. That means the total cost of installation, including government grant, is actually £11,380. Sadly, whilst I would love to convert to a heat pump, even a price of £3,880 to me is just not cost effective as it would take quite a few years to recoup the outlay. And there cannot be a vast number homes in the country more suited? And there must be a question mark over whether the scale of government grant is affecting installation costs. It would be very interesting to see some analysis of quoted costs which might show where most of the installation cost is being spent?

looks like a big bin with a fan on it.

All sounds great, every time we contact Octopus [customer over 3 years now] they're not installing in Scotland. Awesome, thanks Octopus

Two comments: If it is summer in the UK, this means you are cooling the residence. This means you would not have a comfy fan to blow in your garden, as it would be exhausting hot air. This angled upward fan opening would seem to allow more precipitation to get inside the 'bits n bobs' versus the side exhausting models.

They sure as hell aren’t quoting £500!!!

I love the way Octopus has turned it's back on the way things have always been done and provided the best tariffs to suit modern day technologies.

Neither the presenter nor the octopus representative seemed familiar with the second law of thermodynamics, which dictates that the higher the output temperature ( for a given source temp) the lower a heat pumps efficiency.

Body language suggested that the positives are over sugar coated?

Pity they don't have an 1870's to 1900's terrace for testing. I am always put off when somebody says that they are "turbocharging" their offering. It just makes me think that it's all vacuous claims. Must be the tory government association ...

Why is the fan angled up to catch rain/snow/dust/bird crap?

If you have a house like ours that is two thirds solid brick, also has double glazing and loft insulation you won’t be able to install a heat pump, Octopus did a survey on our house and advised that we should not install a heat pump because they don’t do one big enough, the house is a four bedroom, we don’t use two of the bedrooms and only heat two downstairs rooms but apparently the heat pump needs to heat all rooms to be efficient. Looks like we are stuck with gas for the foreseeable future.

Doesn't the chances of snow or stuff gathering on the fan in this design more? I know the fan might be running but still though? Normal design seems easier for maintenance of fans

Octopus is a breath of fresh air in the UK energy market. Putting all other companies to shame really.

I'm with Octopus, I'm Octopus Go at the moment, with a 14.4Kwh PHEV car, as well as the GivEnergy All in One 13.5Kw home battery, I have the IBoost+ to heat my water tank & 4Kw solar panels & triple glazed thru-out. I asked for a quote from Octopus, within a day I one for £4500. No one visited to see what's best, where to place the pump or see if I needed any further additional insulation. I'd much rather see a person, with advice or even three quotes following the heat geeks information. Octopus still needs to work on the personal touch & not the hard sell, where we all seek compensation in ten years time?

I’m an Octopus customer and a big fan. However when I enquired about the Cosy 6 the issues were firstly that you need to have a massive hot water tank fitted (I think 1m x 1m x 1.8m which won’t fit in the location of my existing hot water tank or boiler and will be too large for loft installation as well. The Cosy 6 is apparently only suitable for a 3 bed semi and a larger version hasn’t been launched yet. I was quoted £5000 even allowing for the government grant and nearly all the existing Octopus installs are for regular heat pumps so far not the Cosy 6. So I’m a little disappointed but hopeful that the product will be further developed, refined, reduced in cost and proven whilst the government grant is still available.

Excellent news. It's fantastic to see such great energy efficiency improvements. Thanks so much for this brilliant episode.

It’d be fairer if they stated that their install costs that little after considering the BUS grant. Otherwise folks might think that Octopus have found the holy grail everyone has been looking for. Except, they haven’t.

Only £500 if you have a gas boiler, but if you are building a new house there is no government support to install a heat pump

Small poit - there are a lot of people who are on oil not gas boilers. Octopus would not fit an ASHP at our cottage despite a decent heat loss survey - it was the lack of willingness to install the hot water tank in our garage that saw the project fail and the government grant being taken away from us !! So for me Octopus need to be more flexible on the installs also look for a ASHP with built in hot water - similar to my outside oil boiler

Our heat pump is currently killing us, and the main issue is that the consumers are left on their own after installation to find out the best way to run it.

Difficult to believe but propane has a very low global warming potential (GWP) of 0.02 which is surprising because it's a molecule with many modes of resonance, and would presumably break down into CO₂ and methane by UV radiation. Still, IPCC 6 report says it is very low, so I'll go with it. Heat pumps should be cheap - they are just bidirectional fridges, consisting of a motor, compressor, valve, some tubes and one or two fans, all of which are massively mass produced!

Be interested to see a breakdown of their £500 cost. Maybe make up a well insulated house etc to see if you can get a quote.

I think a more important issue than heat pump cost is the cost of the insulation that we all know we need before installing a heat pump.

issues with siting pumps needs to be addressed. The huge numbers of Victorian terraces in the UK massively impacts this. Not to mention the cost of integrating into existing. Fine if you’re replacing your whole system, but once you add in moving the water tank, replacement radiators stc etc 5he cost is too high.

Are there any heat-pumps that use air-to-air rather than air-to-water (Americans call this a 'mini-split')? I'd like to be able to cool as well as heat.

Where I live it snows... how does that fan handle a 20-30 cm snow coverage? Does it need an extra roof built over it?

In the Netherlands, it is the other way around. We had insulation for the floor for around €2.000 and get €130 back from the Government. A fully electric heat pump for our house is around €11.000, we get €2.700 subsidized and have to pay €8.300. Thanks but no thanks. The Dutch government could learn a thing or two from the UK.

So very refreshing to see the facts and positives being put out there by a trusted source and from a trusted supplier - the country's leading supplier. It will be lovely when the Cosy6 can be produced in a smaller size. I need a 2.8kw heat pump to balance heat loss. Having said that, my air-to-air heat pumps work really well in winter but don't do hot water. There is a Multi + system from Daikin coming soon that does air heating and hot water! Maybe Octopus can consider that as a small cylinder goes with it. All said and done, they are far far cheaper to run than my gas boiler.

Not sure about the sloping angle - it looks like it would encourage rain to get in. Would like to see a Heat Geek review of this heat pump, and high temperature concept.

Does this unit work with a single zone inside the house - or more than one zone? The fan seems smaller than "typical" heat pump. They mention radiators - are there compressors inside the house - or is this a heating system only?

One of these days I'd love to see one of these companies figure out that a "boost mode" or some other type of rapid temperature change mode would be a major selling point feature for a lot of people. Sure, you might drop down to only 2 times more efficient, or even on parody with a gas boiler or traditional air conditioner temporarily, but a way to heat or cool a space rapidly, then switching back to normal operation, would get a lot more people interested in moving to heat pumps. I know that if for some reason my home dropped in temperature over a long period of time, say for a power outage, then took a long time to heat back up in the name of efficiency, all those energy savings would go right in the bin since I'd have to use space heaters or a traditional furnace to get the house back up to temperature.

I'm all for a heat pump, been banging the drum with my family for over a year now thanks to Heat Geek and this channel. There may be a big problem incoming btw with smart metres, mines never worked because my flat has no mobile signal. All smart metres in the UK use 3G and that is being decommissioned by the gov/network providers soon. Won't that render all smart metres in the UK no longer smart when that happens? Maybe they should work by syncing to your phone/app instead. EDF are aware my smart metre doesn't work, a bloke comes out and all he can do it turn it off and on again and still no signal, he reports back to EDF and.. nothing. is it my job to chase them about this? nope.

Unfortunately not in my area yet. I was surprised as I live in Birmingham I would have thought big cities would be prioritised.

Strange angle to have the fan instead of vertical. Hope they've got some good bearings in them! 🧐

Biggest concern I have over heat pump is where to put it (on our 1930s semi) also where to put any hot water tank. I'd also be very cautious about buying a heating system that's locked in to my energy supplier's systems especially via an app. What happens when I want to switch suppliers? What happens if I lose my phone or internet connection? A physical control panel is essential.

Why would it be running and giving you cool air outside on a hot day?

Nice idea but a commercially integrated solution will always prioritise profitability of the provider over cost reduction for the consumer. What currently provides a clear customer benefit will ultimately transpire to be a captive system. Only divorcing energy service & energy product providers will ensure consumer interest.

Thanks

@2:51 On a hot day, running AC inside the house, that fan will blast you with HOT air. You won't like the air coming off of that in any season. It's the opposite of what you're conditioning for in the home.

Well I just filled out the instant quote and it says I'm currently not eligible for a heat pump even though I'm in a well-insulated detached house, have sufficient space, etc. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Just changed option to I'm not renovating my home and now it says I'm eligible (surely they'd prefer to install in a house being renovated). Quote was just under £4769 after grant. Not sure why.

After 1 year, 2 engineer visits and countless telephone calls, Octopus has failed to install a smart meter so I shan't get too excited about this.

As a SW developer I find "mostly female lead firmware team" a very weird thing to try to score "social justice" points on. Women in managerial positions have been a normal thing for a long time and it's not like they had mostly female firmware team... Don't get me wrong, I am for the freedom of choice of occupation, equal pay for the same work regardless of sex, race, religion age etc. and for fair pay for the value that the work creates (e.g. education and healthcare jobs often struggle with this). The fact that vast majority of engineers are male is not because engineering is hostile to women, but because most women are more interested in doing other things and it's the very same reason why you don't see many male nurses... I've admired Octopus Energy for quite some time now for what they're doing and been envious that we have nothing even remotely like it here in the Eastern half of Central Europe, but this is a small red flag for many people now... Why does almost every company (and political party) that works to protect the environment and fight the climate change also have to preach the "social justice" BS?

What does she mean with getting cold air in you garden? When in cooling mode it will blow hot air from the outside unit , right?

I myself fitted an air to air Mitsi elec heat pump in 2000, to keep the top floor warm. When we moved in there were no wet system fitted. Just a gas fire down stairs and through the wall gas heater. That was first to go when we moved in 1997. That unit looks over kill for my place. I use electric to heat water and have fitted a far infra-red under floor heating Matt in the main living room. Good bye gas fire and gas hob this year. Looking to have the gas meter removed soon to stop the monthly standing charge. I have solar panels but need a good battery storage next

I'm proud to be a customer of Octopus Energy, such an innovative and ambitious company which is pushing to make sustainability more affordable.

The government figure of 90% being suitable for heat pumps is based on no valid data whatsoever. High temperature heat pumps have included more houses in suitable, but still assuming that replacing whole heating systems, radiators pipework and hot water cylinders, does not constitute 'suitable for a heat pump'. Anything could be if you started again from scratch!

Nice to see this as many must be thinking of their heating next year!! Does it heat the water as well?? What is the decibel noise??

Ahh, that's more what I'm looking for! Of course without vendor lock in, as I'm not in the UK and don't want to be stuck with one provider. Reasonable price, nice design (I agree, that's more like the thing I'd like to be outside my house) and higher temperature. Even though 35 degrees should work in my 1920's house, higher would help. I have about 6-7 years left on my gas heater, so this looks good! But the new salt heat storage is also really interesting. To be able to store heat in the summer to use through the colder periods would be fantastic.

Really interested in the Cosy 6. It seems to have been delayed since the announcement last Autumn but hopefully with videos like this popping up it'll soon be available.

Interesting, but my quote was £5,500 after the discount for an average semi detatched house, not £500! Also put off by the fact they want full payment upfront immediately before survey etc. FYI the pebble shaped high temp unit is not available yet. it's just in testing. I like the looks of it, so will hold off for now.

The price has gone up a little then, it was “From £0” when it was announced last year. Not exactly news now, most other energy companies are doing £500 heat pumps (after the grant) - alright, “from £500” assuming no other work is required.

In the last 5 years in the UK it seems that the housing stock has become suitable for heat pumps even though there has not been a country wide scheme for improving insulation in housing. I don't think heat pump technology has improved to overcome poor quality insulation in housing. If I'm wrong please enlighten me. I'd love to have a heat pump.

I’m no expert on anything to do with heat pumps, but will rain falling down into the angled up fan cause any issues? Obviously they’ve taken that into account but I’m interested in why they chose to design it this way and why it works.

6-8 months to get an installation date currently and that was not the Cosy 6. So do I keep delaying my install or just accept a Daikin? Decisions.

At 2:55, presenter describes getting a blast of cold air while standing in the garden on a hot day. On a hot day, heat pumps work by pumping undesired heat out of the house. The outdoors fan is blasting heated air on a hot day and cooled air on cold days (pumping the unpleasantness outside). The boxy outdoors units have a larger radiator area to transfer the unpleasantness outdoors, and are thus more efficient.

Is there an option to replace hydronic heating boiler, and instant hot water boiler with one heat pump? Should this be two or one unit? We live in Australia and it seems our option are limited here… I’ve go no idea where to start.

I've never heard of using propane refrigerant except for 3 way fridges in campervans, how long will it last. I've had a high temperature refrigerant before CO2 in a Sanden hot water heat pump, heated water twice as quick as other types, awesome unit.

I've long wondered why more heat pumps weren't paint black for that little bit of solar boost from absorbing the sunshine better. Better still perhaps combine one with a Trombe wall type arrangement.

Does this mark the end the fabric first mantra?

Interesting - although my home is very much not in that 80% that are the target for easy pickings. 1937 build originally designed for fireplace heating throughout, it'll be pretty much last on anyone's target list for meeting quotas cost-effectively - if at all. Currently on Combi gas, and minded to go air-to-air (not least to lose those wall-space-consuming radiators).

I've had my high temp Vaillant Heat Pump for nearly 4 years. It can heat the water to 70° Centigrade and so easily copes with standard radiators which would normally be about 55° to 65°. My average efficiency over 12 months is 3.2 which is pretty good I think. The Oil & Gas companies are just spreading huge amounts of misinformation because they know Heat Pumps are going to wipe out gas boilers for most homes. #StopBurningStuff

Won't a fan on a non vertical axis, cause wear and start to make a noise after a while ?

£500 for a survey (refunded when order is placed) Up to date EPC is advised though good insulation is the key. Max area covered by Octopus heatpumps is 200sqm, but not by the cosy6. Not sure if the higher temp heat pumps have two compressors or not, would be interesting to know this, and also what sort of scop is expected.

I wonder if the Cosy will come to Octopus Energy NZ? We have a gas ducted central heating system, but to switch out to electric costs tens of thousands of dollars and lots of disruption switching out the ducting because it's not suitable for the heat pumps currently sold here. Unfortunately absolutely no subsidies here in NZ, so I wonder what the full cost of the Cosy is?

"So many houses are ready for heat pumps to be fitted"... including the hundreds of new build houses being built with gas boilers in my local area. 🏘️🤔

Great Video

Unfortunately at the moment Octopus are not installing their cosy 6. We’ve just had them install a heatpump for us and it was a Daikin heatpump, having said that it’s working really well.

Bravo to octopus, I think my main concern is tying this into an energy provider, the government needs to step in here and make sure this can operate with other companies energy tariffs or give the user full independent control. Otherwise we will repeat the smart meter nonsense where all the first gen units had to be ripped out because the government left it to the energy companies to sort out, and of course to them there was no value in you being able to transfer the smart meter to another energy provider - a huge waste of tax payer and bill payers money.

R290 are in many Swedish heat pumps for 20 years plus. Nothing new there. Great to see alternative designs too.

I've not heard of high temperature heat pumps before. They sound just great for installers seeking to cut upfront costs to speed up the job. They might also help some customers to avoid replacing radiators or pipework etc. However, I think there is a risk they'll be used to cut corners i.e. deliver less performance and therefore higher long term energy costs. This government scheme is a mess. I remain concerned about the quality/experience of the installers and how systems will be maintained. I'll be sticking with a gas boiler until the market in the UK is more mature and there is less confusion.

sorrywhatpardon? I was quoted 4k and that's before any upgrades - and INCLUDING the 7500 govt grant. Property has EPC rating of B, has insulation, double glazing, etc. So the £500 is really not possible. I want to see those £500 installations

What i’d like to see is an integrated heat pump in the fabric of the building, making it near invisible.

I renovated my house about 4 years ago, and tho I've been a super-fan of Fully Charged, EV's, better tech for the environment etc, for several years already, I plumped for replacing the horrendous old 50's gas boiler with a shiny new boiler and big water tank setup.. For me at the time, the economics, and the relative infancy, guinepig state of heat pumps, won out in my decision, mostly money tho of course, we didn't have the budget to fit unrderfloor heating (at the time the ideal for a heat pump system) and my crystal ball didn't see Russia/Unkraine and gas-price rises coming. This "hight temperature" version sounds like a good replacement for the gas boiler component, BUT what would become of my (yes 'bad' gas-burning) but virtually brand new (very good for what it is) boiler? Just thrown in the trash, or would it be re-purposed/recycled? Keen to invite comment/discussion here, but please be kind if you think I made a bad choice 🙂

I’ve been looking for the right heat pump technology for over a year now…..this still isn’t it. Notice how the interview skipped over the questions of pipework and radiators….my home was built in 2002 and has microbore cable everywhere. Every heat pump survey I’ve had has said all the pipework and all the radiators needed to be upgraded, also my hot water cylinder needs to be replaced as it isn’t big enough for a 4 bedroom home. So the £500 figure suddenly turns into a £10,000 figure, especially if you want to hide all the replaced pipework and that means taking ceilings down, re plastering and redecorating the whole home…..But of course they will just stick a pump in without doing all that stuff and then the hone won’t be anything like as efficient….or warm. I’m getting the Heat Geeks in to do a proper survey….and waiting to see how Hybrid heat pumps develop before moving anywhere.

I do like Octopus Energy! I am not (yet) a customer but everything seems to point to them being the best in the UK ... This Cosy 6 is very intriguing

Its not going to be cold air blowing out of that fan on a hot day unless you have the heatpump set to heat the house!

2:54 She has it the wrong way around: On a hot day it will be pumping hot air from the house out through the fan, not cold air.

It is all great, but I waited 6 months, paid a deposit and waited and waited for Octopus. After 6 months without even an appointment date and countless chasing phone calls and emails I gave up!

Under what circumstances would you expect a nice cooling breeze coming from the heatpump fan outside in your garden? Have you ever stood in front of one in summer????

In a small 3 bed property, I don't really have room for a massive heat pump in my tiny garden, I would hope I'm not the only person that wants a heat pump, but only if it takes up less space, say like the space my gas boiler takes up in my kitchen?

1st heard of cosy six last year. We need a combi boiler solution for a large old four bed house so this probably isn't for us. Octopus are our supplier though and are very good.

500£ with 7500£ subsidy. So the real cost is 8000£

I am really puzzled by this having had a quote from Octopus of about £6k last year, which included the grant. Is this new heatump £5k cheaper than they were last year? This video really looked more like an advertorial than a useful guide.

not everyone needs an air to water heat pump, small homes without radiators (formerly storage heaters) could manage perfectly well with air to air yet most providers don't offer this. No they don't want their floors ripped up for under-floor, no they don't want or need radiators installed from scratch. Heat-pump fan, there needs to be a better range of options on offer.

If I understand the requirements correctly to replace our combi boiler we would need to also install a cylinder, upgrade insulation, pipes and radiators. So far from the £500 quoted. Much as i'd love to get one, I just can't see how given we have a 1930's solid brick building.

Can we see the inside unit too? Does it need a cylinder?

Doesn't matter how cheap the unit is, the fundamental problem is the high cost of electricity relative to gas. My electricity is a bit over 24p/kWh while gas is 5.5p/kWh. Even assuming a best-case CoP of 4 (more like 3 in the depths of winter), the heat pump is going to cost more to run. If electricity came down to something like 10p/kWh (like it used to be not that long ago) it would be a no-brainer.