Yes, she was.

Amen

A fairy godmother who's not afraid to tell the younguns to get their shit together. She's in my top three favorites of all the characters.

Great take! Without her, everyone's world would come crashing down

Yes, but was there any way she could have cut Ethel some slack? I guess not.

I know. It makes me sad everytime.

@supernumery You do realise that it's normal for people to empathize with characters from TV shows and that this does not mean that they actually believe them to be real, right?

poppybell87 That scene broke my heart! I just wanted to give him a hug 😭❤️

Jamila Malluf you suck at character analysis

Jamila Malluf ...and speaking of rage...

Hear, hear!

Well said! They are actually not so different underneath

I love this comment so much. Spot on.

Beautifully put.

I don't know, Thomas would see Bates ruined XDD

Except that Thomas has tried many times to ruin Bates. I’m no fan of Bates but he’s really not the same as Thomas. I get that the latter has suffered because of his homosexuality but it’s really odd to me how so many people paper over his viciousness

Read this in a Scottish accent.

also mrs Hughes is I belive a very intuitive and observant woman she can read that Thomas is very strict to himself in some personal matters and don't belive he committed any real crimes so she try and console Thomas. What a wonderful lady.

Mrs Hughes was always a treasure. Her cancer scare had my heart in my throat

Love her, HAPPY VALLEY!!!!!! It’s a wonderful show and she completely shines

Now that would be an amazing spin-off! Bates runs for parliament.

I think he might have been one of the earliest to spot that Thomas was changing.

I once read a great fanfic which said that after seeing how much Thomas has truly changed and how good he is with the children, the Bateses make him their baby's godfather.

There were more homosexual men and women living their lives with 'companions' and 'bachelor friends' than we ever see....not saying it was embraced or anything, but people knew, and more than the media lets on, some just didn't care. (See also - 'Gentleman Jack', or Anne Lister who is credited with being half of the first [unofficial] married lesbian couple in the UK.)

The BBC drama Man in the Orange Shirt (part 1) is very similar and excellent. It is on UT in various small clips, but with autoplayer on you get the whole drama.

TabaquiJackal906 A lot of places had their own virtual version of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”. As long as people were quiet about it, everyone just nonverbally agreed they wouldn’t say anything.

Yeah, homosexuality was tolerated more than you think. There were people who just didn't care--as long as homosexuals kept to themselves, these people didn't bat an eye. It was the "moral crusaders," in league with the police, who tormented homosexuals during this period in English history. Even more interestingly--there were European countries that had de-criminalized homosexuality by the 1910s and 1920s, France foremost among them (Napoleon had a soft spot for homosexuals and decriminalized sodomy in the 1810s).

I suspect it wasn't unusual for some people agreeing to marry someone that they knew full well was gay but at a time when love wasn't really the reason for marriage it had to be done. It's known that certain aristocratic women overlooked the fact that their husbands had male lovers but as long as they had sex with their marital partner to at least have children then your main duty as a wife was kind of done after getting pregnant. I'm not so sure if a husband would have tolerated his wife having lesbian lovers though. Historians strongly suspect some famous lesbians in the past but apparently it's far more difficult to verify a gay woman in historical research than a gay man. You never see lesbians in period dramas like Downton Abbey either and I guess that's just because people aren't really sure how society treated lesbians compared to homosexuals.

Every time he redeemed himself he started being a jerk again when it came back to his character

I'm sure he'll get a happy ending alright...

OMG me too I still love the way it ended such pride he showed knowing mr carson was giving him his support ..I can hardly wait to see the movie !!! AHHH !! LOLOL

spoiler he did

Id be thrilled to give Thomas a happy ending

9

...in 80 years or so.

I like to think Mrs Hughes did something like that

Too bad that Thomas was so ungrateful to Bates even after this.

I have huge admiration for how the Miss O'Brien actress plays her character. She's so spot on, so subtle and yet you can always tell how she's feeling. Her looking terrified when Bates whispered those words to her, and then when she was speaking to Jimmy -- she was utterly petrified! I actually believe that that terror (and the deep guilt that she still felt) are what motivated her to leave Downton as soon as she got an opportunity at a different job.

What does that even mean ?

@@eb4676 there's an episode in season 1 that would allow it to make sense to you. Let's just say that Cora was pregnant one day and lost the baby. O'Brien was a big part of why that happened.

@@eb4676 Lady Crawley was pregnant again and possibly having a boy. O'Brien was afraid after mishearing incorrect information. She thought that Cora was going to fire her, and she wasn't. Instead of asking Cora, O'Brien acted out left soap on the floor and didn't help Cora out of bathtub. Cora slipped on the soap O'Brien left and lost baby. It was a boy later learned. O'Brien killed the Downtown heir.

@Jamila Malluf Thomas is a complicated character, he maybe kind of evil and rude but he's also a darling, just watch him with the kids, with Sybil, the ill soldier that took his own life, Baxter later on or Andy. Nothing is black or white, him seeming to be completely "black" does not in any way that he is. I would love to have him as friend...

the baby secret would have been the only secret that would have got her sacked as Cora is blind to her bitchiness.

@Jamila Malluf The world isn't black or white, there are a lot of grey shades. And there is always a way to save something ruined, it may take a lot of time and energy but save everything. Thomas never did anything extremely horrible (don't mention that sweet little baby, O'Brien killed it, Thomas only kept the secret. And what should he have done with that info, get O'Brien into prison? That would have been so unnecessary. It's not that I don't think she did something horrible, I just don't want anybody to go to prison, there are other ways to punish people.). He made mistakes, maybe a lot of them but he learned from them in the end. There is no way you are going to tell me that he was evil in the end, cause he wasn't. He was a man struggling with who was in a world where he wasn't allowed to be himself. He never had love in his life, it's not weird that he doesn't know how to behave kindly, cause almost nobody was kind to him. Don't blame him for being the person the world made him be. It's not his fucking fault!

@Jamila Malluf copy pasting?

I’m convinced Bates is half psychopath. The looks he gives and threats he makes freak me out. Just like you, I think there’s a darkness there.

💐💍🍷🍷🥂🍾🍻🍺🍺☕☕🍵🍵🍹🍹🍸🍸🥃🥃🥛🍼 de casa de vn de novo e não sei o que fazer para o que eu tenho pra mim e não quero ser mãe e não te amo muito meu coração e não

I think Thomas is my favorite character. I always felt sorry for him even when I didn’t like him very much. But he is a wonderful actor. I’ve seen him on some other shows and he is so funny and down to earth. ☺️

I've never entirely liked Thomas, but he's always been fascinating even during his villainous times. The characters who I wouldn't call gray are Anna, Mrs. Hughes, Mr. Moseley, Miss Baxter, Lady Sybil, and Lavinia Swire (I may have forgotten a few), but even they are well developed and interesting.

@@rowanaforrest9792 I agree. Some characters on the show (especially Thomas) are grey, those whom you mentioned (plus Matthew) are angels, and O'Brien is pure evil. Yet they all are developed very well and they all feel like real people. Every sort of person you could possibly meet in your life - personality-wise - lives somewhere in Downton.

@@12classics39 I knew I forgot a non-grey character: Matthew! I'll also add Lord Merton, Bertie Pelham, and Mr. Bates, because although Mr. Bates certainly has his dangerous side, he is always moral. I don't think Miss O'Brien was entirely evil, though she was as grey as Thomas. I say this because O'Brien changed her mind about the soap trick against Cora and tried to undo it but was moments too late, and she never stopped feeling deeply guilty for Cora's miscarriage. (I think that guilt was what finally drove her to run away to India when opportunity arose.) O'Brien also did some other things for honestly the right reason. She's another character who, though mostly a villain, was always fascinating thanks to the actress and the writer. You are right that every sort of person you could ever meet is represented in the Downton Abbey series. :)

Anna too

I would gladly volunteer!

Yes please... I would love to see him with a boyfriend😊

@@---zr3jq go watch the movie if you want to see Thomas happy 😉

Sara definitely😊.

The movie won’t disappoint especially with thomas’ story 😉😉

Amen

Ms O'Brian can be nasty and akin to evil but can she turn a phrase. I cackle every time she says that line

Oh dear, if you only knew what 2020 was about to bring you.

@@zkarebear Oh dear, if you only knew what late 2020/early 2021 was about to bring you.

I loved this line!

accept not except

@@jackwilliamthorne8377 exactly. Even all these comments here claiming to be 'allies' are using homophobic language.

Mrs Hughes, the Mom friend

@@jackwilliamthorne8377 I’m pretty sure the “misfortune” is being found out and losing your job because of who you are. As Mrs. Hughes says, everyone knew already.

Reminds me of Shelby and Eugene Choi

He doesn´t need one.

It’s a British show so I believe he’d be nominated for a BAFTA award, not an Emmy.

@@davidthaler7018 Downton Abbey was nominated for lots of Emmys. Maggie Smith even won a couple. If a British show has US distribution, which Downton Abbey did on PBS, then it is eligible for Emmy nominations. I probably should also say: Where is Rob James-Collier's BAFTA!

I always thought it was awful of her to say that about Jimmy. Would we say that a woman was asking to have a man let himself into her room and try to initiate a sexual encounter while she was sleeping just because she had a flirtatious personality? If anything, Jimmy is completely unaware of how Thomas is interpreting things. If they fired the maid for having a voluntary sexual encounter, then Thomas absolutely should have been fired and arrested for his predatory behavior.

Ms. Hughes was actually being fair here--she was fine with Thomas being fired. He needed to suffer the consequences for sneaking in and doing that to Jimmy. What she didn't abide by was Jimmy blackmailing Carson, preventing Thomas from receiving a reference letter. Unlike the fired maid, Thomas had worked at Downton for 10 years with a great work record--he deserved that reference letter. That and his veteran status I think made Ms. Hughes correct here--Jimmy had to back off and allow Thomas to leave with his career intact.

@@Luboman411 I meant when she said Jimmy had somehow been at fault or asking for it since he has a flirtatious nature. As for the reference, I'm on the fence. I think even if someone has a really good track record of service, but they do something that is predatory in nature, the next employer has a right to know in the interest of protecting the people under their roof. But blackmail is always wrong, I'll agree on that.

@@jenniferconstantine9041 I see it your way, and it seems fair in some situations that a track record should perhaps be given up on because of a recent glaring incident which puts a blemish on it. However two things here. The period. And the fact that as Thomas himself described, in his world, a glance, a word was all they had to fall back on when gauging these things, gauging other peoples's interests in them. He was also not quite predatory in the scene, he wished to be with Jimmy WITH his consent, trying to lovingly coax him when Jimmy wakes up and say there was no reason to hide his true self from him (Thomas). He did not intend or attempt to rape or molest the guy. Not trying to defend his behaviour, but saying there was context. He of course shouln't have laid a finger on Jimmy but at the time [or even recently], jumping the gun was the only way to have moved it forward, even if that seems alien to you. That is of course THOMAS's side of it, which Mrs Hughes may or may not have heard in full. And believed. Otherwise, her offhand comment could be again attributed to : the period.

To say he was vain and flirty seems to blame him for the sexual harassment. It was really O'Brien who was behind it, making Thomas believe that Jimmy wanted him. Jimmy would NEVER lead a man on, a WOMAN maybe, but NOT a bloke.

YaaaAaaaAAAAY

That makes me so happy

Kathy Edens Couldn’t drag a needle outta his arse with a tractor!!!!!!

He was overcompensating. He had a "scandalous" past and was trying to make up for it.

He is just doing his job

Michael It’s not his job to sit in judgement of others on his staff.

David Thaler except for Thomas which he did pass judgement and that was out of ignorance , I don’t recall another time The house had rules and standards and he made sure they were kept.

Preferably with happy end.

He needs to have a redemption arc. He deserves it, and we deserve it.

I agree

Same

The trailer for the movie seems to indicate he does

Me too! Couldn’t stand Ms. O’Brien but this line is golden. Along with anything the Dowager says.

I also strive to drink tea 24/7

Mrs. Hughes is such an amazing woman! She is a mother to every single person in that series in one way or another. Such a kind and big heart ♥️

"Her ladyship's soap"

U can see him say it, lip reading

I don't remember how he knew about that (?) It's been years since I saw the first season.

by him I mean Thomas

So he saw what happned or did he investigate? I sadly have not ime to watch Downton at the moment and iam stuck at WW1 lol

"Give me your weapon and i'll fight the war" is also a great display of solidarity

@Chiara Maria Vedovelli Knife box. Sharp.

Certainly, I never forgave her for what she did to Cora

@Amber I got the feeling that Rose's mother never wanted to have her; that Rose, somehow, by her mere existence seemed like a threat to Susan (Rose's mother). She (Susan) hated her husband too (because of his financial failings, as well as possibly, other reasons.

Oui mais vers la fin au procès quand elle témoigne elle essaye maladroitement de le défendre et se sent triste pour Anna, concernant l histoire du savon à cause d un quiproquo elle croit que cora veut la virer mais quand elle apprend la vérité elle est horrifiée de ce qu elle a fait, ce n est pas une mauvaise personne au fond mais juste quelqu un qui veut s imposer

He also said jimmy wasn t to blame at all . Everyone realized jimmy had flirted ( because o brien) . And he did not say he was teaching andy to read. Funnily he only uses secrets you DONT want him to know . But if you told him your secrets it is usually safe

@@marionarda2790 Safe, until he wants to blackmail you.....

Ah, but Miss O'Brien didn't tell Thomas that her trick with the soap caused Cora to fall and miscarry (which, in fairness, she was going to stop except Cora got out of the bath on her own before O'Brien could retrieve the soap bar). I remember how marvelously the actress portrayed OBrien's extreme guilt and remorse about that. Thomas didn't know the significance of "her ladyship's soap," only that O'Brien felt badly about it. Maybe he assumed she'd been stealing the soap and Cora had been very upset. I don't think even Thomas could have kept a secret that enormous.

@@marionarda2790 I think the reason Thomas didn't explain that he was teaching Andy to read was because that was Andy's secret. Andy was ashamed of being illiterate, so Thomas wasn't going to embarrass him. Thomas was always very kind to Andy, with no ulterior motive whatsoever (very unusual for Thomas).

@@rowanaforrest9792 I agree, he has a soft spot for Andy but I think that there's also the vexation to not be trusted by his coworkers after all these years, as he says to Carson. They assume that he's putting Andy into trouble and he'd like them to trust him without telling Andy's secret that everyone would have accepted but it's a matter of pride. Carson is very rude to him during this subplot which triggers his fall into depression and su*cide attempt.

Love her.

Get back in the knife box, Miss Sharp.

But it didn't take Thomas very long to revert to his a$$holerish treatment of Mr. and Mrs. Bates.

@@judith_thordarson Perhaps, but I think deep down he was grateful.

But she didn’t , she was never punished for it

Oh, sorry, I think both Mrs Hughes and Mr Carson , even if very well outlined are a bit un realistic as characters ! They cannot always be so perfectly wise ! Both actors are exceptionally good, of course, but as a character I think Mrs. Patmore more believable ! Very good actress, too ! Sorry, in Italy the film is not programmed anywhere ! Sob !

@Jamila Malluf lol 😂...you gotta be able to see things deeper and yes I'm fully aware it's a show but even in shows u can see how the director and writers are leading the character to a new development in there humanity. Take care

The only reason I think the olive branch wasn’t easily accepted was because he was doing and saying mean things to people downstairs for years!!!! Ms Baxter was one example of his shortcomings!!! his complexity of a character is amazing

@@alisonmcgrory2037 I understand he had a history of cruel works.

Ikr

i mean he was a bit of a jerk but i guess now he is a better person he deserves a happy continuation in the movie

They die exactly that 🥰🤗

Wait till you see the second one.

It's a great show! All 5 seasons are on Amazon! Definitely check it out!

Its available on Netflix in north America how as well. At least in the USA

Agreed. Same here.

You won't regret it. It's an amazing series.

Highly recommend it if you haven't watched it yet. It's a brilliant series with superb writing and acting 🖤

Look up Montague Glover and Ralph Hall. Two gay men who lived together in a peaceful relationship throughout the 30s (and Glover himself had many lovers during the 10s and 20s, without ever fearing too much about it). Hall (a RAF airman at the time) even wrote love letters that were clearly gay to Glover, and the army censor of the time never said anything about it

A French Guardsman Interesting! I’ll look it up.

Christopher Isherwood (?) lived with his partner I believe. They became the inspiration for E. M. Forster to write Maurice.

Michael Hester oh my that sounds like my life right now

Andi Saputro finally someone brings up Maurice!!

Me 2 .

How much sympathy can Thomas expect from Bates after trying to have him fired because of his own stealing?

@@lexicornix7530 Oh I didn’t know about that storyline !

@@Martindyna Since the first episode Thomas wanted to be a valet instead of footman. At some point Carson noticed wine missing but had no idea who the thief was. When the position of valet became vacant, Thomas was not happy about an old friend of Lord Grantham who can't even walk without a stick getting the job and O'Brien and him plotted against him. Bates found out that Thomas is the thief, so Thomas and O'Brien went to Carson and told him that it was Bates.

@@lexicornix7530 Thanks !

You really should watch it, it’s amazing.

Truly is

You should I love this show in the beginning when I first saw it on PBS I want to share I would like it but the more I watched it where I got into it and I bought the whole series on DVD needless to say I don't have them not by my own choice but I re-bought all seasons here on KZfaq! I am gay and I think that Thomas character is done right mean guy! But I just absolutely love Lady Mary! OK Google need serious operation because it's putting in words I didn't say and words I did say it's not puttin them in!

If you like dialogue and British customs during the 1900s yes. Watch it its great

It's absolutely amazing

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife

They have. The fact that he was rightfully fired and you successfully sued proves it.

Things have definitely changed. But not as fast as we’d like. Two steps forward, one step back. I have faith that I will see more fair change in my lifetime 🥂🙏✨

The thing that made me hated her was when she causes Cora to lose her baby.

@@leenaleewitch3731 oh absolutely. That was the final atrocity

That's because she is such a great actress.. He role was to make you hate her...and she did just that. !!!

Yes, Bates is awesome!